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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 16, 2008, at 23:38:17
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness, posted by linkadge on October 16, 2008, at 20:48:26
> I don't mean physical beauty. I mean beauty in the world around me, in all things. Those who don't see it are truely dead. Depression is seeing more, not less.
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> LinkadgeI'd also very strongly argue Depression is seeing LESS...by far. How can you see so much when you are all tangled up in your own problems? Lifting Depresion also helps take 'us' outside of 'ourselves'.
Jay
Posted by B2chica on October 17, 2008, at 8:50:38
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness, posted by linkadge on October 16, 2008, at 20:48:26
>>Depression is seeing more, not less.
Exactly...
seeing more AND not just 'seeing it' but EXPERIENCING it.
i feel when i'm more depressed i don't just see a beautiful sunset, i appreciate it, i experience it and i get sad for all the people rushing around that don't stop to notice one of the most beautiful things on this earth. each cloud shape, each color, the wind in your face, the temperature in the air...all these things, wrapped up together can be exhilerating, almost overwhelming sometimes.
that it makes me sad, for what else we miss every day.
b2c
Posted by linkadge on October 17, 2008, at 9:12:17
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » linkadge, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 16, 2008, at 23:30:44
I partially agree with you, but I partially disagree. I've been "well" and when I am emotions have a different quality to them.
My feelings and thoughts are less deep. I can't feel as much. I don't see certain things.
When I am depressed I feel like I am seeing more about the way the world really is. I feel I have a more realiztic appraisal of things, I notice more injustices, I feel other people's pain.
I know this is a bunch of B.S. for you, but sometimes I don't want to be well (or perhaps I don't know what well is).
I've taken almost every antidepressant there is out there and they all do the same thing for me. They are emotional ansesthetics. They simply block me from myself.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on October 17, 2008, at 9:13:17
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » linkadge, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 16, 2008, at 23:38:17
When I am depressed I am not "tangled up in my own problems".
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on October 17, 2008, at 9:26:13
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » linkadge, posted by B2chica on October 17, 2008, at 8:50:38
You know what I am talking about.
I feel terrible for popping pills because I feel as if I am actually learning something from depression. Like its some sort of emotional growing pain. Its almost as if my brain is trying to reorient me to the things that matter. Like my brain is dropping the "feel good" chemicals for a while so that I can take in more information about how the world really is.
The feel good chemicals just make you feel content to do the same things you've been doing over and over. They tell me that my ways of doing things are right, that I don't need to stop and consider anything. Indecisivness is good because it foces you to reconsider things you take for granted, things you do without thinking about.
People might be really depressed because they are in a crappy job. The depression is the dissonance between what they are doing and what they want to be doing. Antidepressants may just perk them up, "get them back in the game" and stoping thinking so deeply about things.
I don't know where I am going with this.
Linkadge
Posted by manic666 on October 17, 2008, at 12:45:03
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » B2chica, posted by linkadge on October 17, 2008, at 9:26:13
FINALY if you have read some of my posts you no the diference we are special, the other,s normal an boring . we should have a motto MENTAL AN PROUD.manic666
Posted by bulldog2 on October 17, 2008, at 15:24:21
In reply to Beauty and sadness, posted by linkadge on October 16, 2008, at 13:18:41
> Beauty and sadness are very closly linked.
>
> Linkadge
>Fading beauty and sadness are linked. The fading beauty of autumn brings sadness...The sadness is watching the beauty fade into death and than nothingness..
Posted by Sigismund on October 17, 2008, at 16:58:36
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness, posted by bulldog2 on October 17, 2008, at 15:24:21
Sadness is beautiful because it is authentic and whole.
(Unlike some other negative emotions such as anger.)And that is like the difference between weeping and crying.
Posted by seldomseen on October 17, 2008, at 17:05:37
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by linkadge on October 17, 2008, at 9:12:17
Personally, I do not think beauty and sadness are that closely linked.
Depression is just gray to me. Overwhelming grayness and sorrow. I don't feel things deeper or experience the world. I don't taste food, don't smell things. I can't find a single ounce of good in anything. It's just suffocating hopelessness and fatigue.
The meds lift that for me. I remember when I first started prozac. I remember eating a blueberry muffin and thinking "my god this is the best thing I've ever had". I remember when I started to notice the color in things and geometry and experiencing speed in the car. I remember the first time I felt thrilled about something in over a decade.
I also remember thinking "my god, what had happened to me".
So instead of separating me from me, I think the meds do just the opposite.
Everyone's depression is different.
Seldom.
Posted by linkadge on October 17, 2008, at 18:17:09
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » linkadge, posted by seldomseen on October 17, 2008, at 17:05:37
Yes I suppose we are different.
Thats the problem with me. I don't feel as if there is anything wrong. I mean, I don't like how I feel. I feel too much, but when I am on meds, I feel nothing. The meds don't do anything for what I see is the core problem. The meds don't change the way I think. They just numb me.
The neural pathways that underly my misery are too well established. This is not biochemical, my brain is wired to feel things differently than well people. You can't change brain wiring by just popping a pill.
Linkadge
Posted by bulldog2 on October 17, 2008, at 18:31:00
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » seldomseen, posted by linkadge on October 17, 2008, at 18:17:09
> Yes I suppose we are different.
>
> Thats the problem with me. I don't feel as if there is anything wrong. I mean, I don't like how I feel. I feel too much, but when I am on meds, I feel nothing. The meds don't do anything for what I see is the core problem. The meds don't change the way I think. They just numb me.
>
> The neural pathways that underly my misery are too well established. This is not biochemical, my brain is wired to feel things differently than well people. You can't change brain wiring by just popping a pill.
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> Linkadge
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>You're right that wiring can't be changed. But you attempt to add some new wiring and work to make that more dominant than the old wiring. For some cbt is enough and others meds plus cbt. For the lucky ones s life changing event that establishes a whole new thought system.
Posted by Phillipa on October 17, 2008, at 19:53:06
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » linkadge, posted by bulldog2 on October 17, 2008, at 18:31:00
So take meds? And when they don't work what then? Love Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on October 17, 2008, at 20:35:40
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » linkadge, posted by bulldog2 on October 17, 2008, at 18:31:00
>But you attempt to add some new wiring and work >to make that more dominant than the old wiring
My old wiring says that idea won't work.
Linkadge
Posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 12:28:09
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness, posted by linkadge on October 16, 2008, at 20:48:26
Linkadge
I am sorry I am only just now getting back to you. The past few days have been tough ones for me. I am in agreement with you. I look at the world around me. Like today driving home from therapy, the way the sunlight beamed through the trees with their fall beauty. I appreciated the beauty of the moment yet I was sad. I have been so sad of late and cannot for the life of me figure out why. Therapy did not help either. So I get this. I am on an AD too. But I feel flat. I am not sure better is in the cards for me.
rsk
Posted by chinooktoe on October 21, 2008, at 15:27:20
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » linkadge, posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 12:28:09
If you are truly desparate, like I was, I beg you to just try this. I am not selling a damn thing, just trying to help people who were like me not long ago. Please remember, YOUR BRAIN IS SEVERELY F&%(KED UP. YOU NEED POWERFUL TREATMENT, not more pansy-*ss*d medications.
This is going to sound like I believe I am Napoleon, but it is the truth: I probably know what will cure you. I had decades of very bad depression, tried all conventional treatments. Meds helped a bit, but not nearly enough. After tons of reading and reckless experimentation on myself, I finally stumbled on a ridiculously simple cure involving direct current electrical "stimulation" transcrania. What worked for me is quite a bit different and more radical than the tDCS you can read about on the web. My method has completely cured myself and three other people of depression. Four out of four is pretty damn good. I am not a doctor, and I am not licensed or qualified to "treat" anyone, but I CAN tell you my exact method and you can try it on yourself. I do not make any money or anything on this, just trying to help people who are in anguish like I was. PLEASE DO NOT EXPERIMENT ON YOURSELF. I am happy to freely tell you my experiences. You can email me at chinooktoe@gmail.com for exact details.Bless you,
Neil
Posted by chinooktoe on October 21, 2008, at 15:43:03
In reply to Beauty and sadness, posted by linkadge on October 16, 2008, at 13:18:41
I just cannot sit by and hold my tongue any more. All of you deeply depressed people, look, YOUR BRAIN IS SERIOUSLY F#%!#$ED UP. YOU NEED A NUCLEAR BOMB SIZED TREATMENT, not more pansy-*ss medications. Try this experimental treatment my dumb *ss stumbled on, please. If you are just kind of blah feeling, go away. This is just for people like I was until recently-- in the grip of a depression so entrenched that it was "normal life" for me, suicide a constant courtesan, medication "helping" me prolong the lifelong sensation of being slowly smothered in the grey ashes of death. My standard post:
This is going to sound like I believe I am Napoleon, but it is the truth: I probably know what will cure you. I had decades of very bad depression, tried all conventional treatments. Meds helped a bit, but not nearly enough. After tons of reading and reckless experimentation on myself, I finally stumbled on a ridiculously simple cure involving direct current electrical "stimulation" transcrania. What worked for me is quite a bit different and more radical than the tDCS you can read about on the web. My method has completely cured myself and three other people of depression. Four out of four is pretty damn good. I am not a doctor, and I am not licensed or qualified to "treat" anyone, but I CAN tell you my exact method and you can try it on yourself. I do not make any money or anything on this, just trying to help people who are in anguish like I was. PLEASE DO NOT EXPERIMENT ON YOURSELF. I am happy to freely tell you my experiences. You can email me at chinooktoe@gmail.com for exact details.Bless you,
Neil
Posted by Geegee on October 21, 2008, at 20:38:45
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness, posted by chinooktoe on October 21, 2008, at 15:43:03
Posted by West on October 22, 2008, at 17:14:03
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by linkadge on October 17, 2008, at 9:12:17
> I partially agree with you, but I partially disagree. I've been "well" and when I am emotions have a different quality to them.
>
> My feelings and thoughts are less deep. I can't feel as much. I don't see certain things.
>
> When I am depressed I feel like I am seeing more about the way the world really is. I feel I have a more realiztic appraisal of things, I notice more injustices, I feel other people's pain.
>
> I know this is a bunch of B.S. for you, but sometimes I don't want to be well (or perhaps I don't know what well is).
>
> I've taken almost every antidepressant there is out there and they all do the same thing for me. They are emotional ansesthetics. They simply block me from myself.
>
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> Linkadge
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> These are sentiments are my own. I am a day or two away from ending 3 years of medications and for the first the time in 3 years beginning to glimpse the nostaligic beauty of autumn in London.On them my sense of discrimination was lost, as well as my humanity.
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Posted by West on October 22, 2008, at 17:22:25
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness, posted by West on October 22, 2008, at 17:14:03
there is a sense of fatality in the seasons. nick drake wrote about life's sadness and change using nature as a context. wordsworth, keats too.
Posted by Marty on October 22, 2008, at 21:19:18
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness, posted by linkadge on October 16, 2008, at 20:48:26
> I don't mean physical beauty. I mean beauty in the world around me, in all things. Those who don't see it are truely dead. Depression is seeing more, not less.
---
Depends which kind of depression you're talking to. The big majority of people diagnosed with MDD doesn't see more beauty but WAY less than when there Okay.I find your comment puzzling and I'm wondering if your state of mind is your "normal" one .. whatever "normal" is for you (depressed?)
Don't want to hammer my points in my other post to you about Prozac.. but you surely sounds like someone having too much 5-HT2c stimulation! ..maybe just coincidence.. but is your 'affect' different since starting Prozac ?
/\/\arty
Posted by Marty on October 22, 2008, at 21:33:42
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » seldomseen, posted by linkadge on October 17, 2008, at 18:17:09
>I don't like how I feel. I feel too much, but when I am on meds, I feel nothing. The meds don't do anything for what I see is the core problem. The meds don't change the way I think. They just numb me.
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Ever tried HIGH dose Lyrica ? (300/600mg BID).. You feel 'less' while feeling even more intense. All the emotions and then more without the pain of feeling too much. 2 years of high dose Lyrica changed something in me permanently... Today, even after I've stopped it since 6 months, the pain of reality is way lower than before my 2 years on it .. the end result is that I feel more emotionally because my consciousness isn't blinded by too much informations..so that I better see shades in them .. emotional shades.High dose Lyrica is unique and for some is the ultimate REAL antidepressant.
/\/\arty
Posted by Marty on October 22, 2008, at 21:52:04
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness, posted by West on October 22, 2008, at 17:22:25
The link between sadness and beauty is 'Romanticism'. Anyone thinking romanticism is only related to love between a man and a woman may want to visit Wikipedia.
Also the falls is beautiful, yet sad... and is the romantics season by far. That said there's more than preferential romanticism in falls .. there's also mandatory sadness for some in the form of S.A.D (Seasonal Affective Disorder).
I sense that the beauty being more accessible in sadness could be called 'morbid beauty' .. where into depression the death of the ego allows to feel more of the beauty in the world.. where the contrast between the ugly and the beautiful is increased because everything ordinary is looking dark and ugly... then only beautiful got our attention as the rest is dirt, including our innerself.. our ego.
/\/\arty
Posted by West on October 23, 2008, at 7:14:18
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » West, posted by Marty on October 22, 2008, at 21:52:04
>
> I sense that the beauty being more accessible in sadness could be called 'morbid beauty' .. where into depression the death of the ego allows to feel more of the beauty in the world.. where the contrast between the ugly and the beautiful is increased because everything ordinary is looking dark and ugly... then only beautiful got our attention as the rest is dirt, including our innerself.. our ego.The sadness is melancholy (one of the four temperaments or 'tempers' in old parlance where the other four are phlegmatic, sanguine & choleric). Duhrer's famous etching (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melancholia) provides some kind of idea of the common perceptions of this. It probably represents a middle stage in the depressive spectrum where sadness exists but without rumination. This allows for the expansion or reflection.
major depression is like an absence of air or adequate cushioning between you and the world. Each noise grates, every motion assults stillness + the mind turns in on itself.
Posted by linkadge on October 23, 2008, at 7:16:33
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » linkadge, posted by Marty on October 22, 2008, at 21:19:18
>Don't want to hammer my points in my other post >to you about Prozac.. but you surely sounds like >someone having too much 5-HT2c >stimulation! ..maybe just coincidence.. but is >your 'affect' different since starting Prozac ?
I don't know why this should be seeing as prozac is a 5-ht2c *antagonist*.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on October 23, 2008, at 7:22:20
In reply to Re: Beauty and sadness » West, posted by Marty on October 22, 2008, at 21:52:04
All I know is that I don't feel right on meds and I don't feel right off of them.
Antidepressanst don't make me happy they just numb the pain and every other emotion allong with it. I don't want to live my life like that. When they tell me I need to make a choice (meds or no meds) what kind of choice is that?
You can feel sh*tty, or sh*tty in a different way, you choose!
I like many parts of myself that the medicatons completely wipe out.
How about inventing something that actually does something?
Linkadge
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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