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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Quintal on August 6, 2008, at 11:16:14
I had another appointment with my pdoc yesterday and he gave me some zolpidem to help me sleep. We've decided to alternate between zolpidem and zopiclone in the hope of limiting tolerance, as this seemed to work for me in the past. Last night it made me hallucinate as it sometimes has done in the past. It didn't help me fall asleep particularly easily, maybe because it made the outside world world seem so interesting. Everything seemed 'cartooninsh' and plastic. It came on while I was brushing my teeth, as if I was looking down the plughole for a large distance. Wierd, but very entertaining. I'm looking forward to taking it tonight! From what I remember it doesn't happen every time I take it, but I've had quite a few interesting experiences with zolpidem.
On a different note, I raised the issue of Suboxone with pdoc. He said he'd consider it, but he wanted to speak with a collegue first. He said he would consult the hospital addiction specialist because he has more experience of using it. He did seem more lenient when I made the point it was the Suboxone preparation I was after rather than Temgesic or Subutex.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2008, at 12:40:40
In reply to Ambien hallucinations, posted by Quintal on August 6, 2008, at 11:16:14
Q that sounds scarey to me and don't think I'd want a repeat of that. But I'm not you. Love Phillipa ps what caused you to like the feeling?
Posted by Quintal on August 6, 2008, at 14:00:32
In reply to Ambien hallucinations, posted by Quintal on August 6, 2008, at 11:16:14
I suppose the it has an anti-anxiety effect in itself, so the hallucinations seem less scarey. They weren't threatening in any way though. Years ago I saw elves on Ambien. The interesting thing was that more detail showed up the closer I looked at them. I kept expecting them to dissapear like a mirage if I got too close, but no, they seemed solid and also seemed to know I was looking at them because they waved back.
Q
Posted by raisinb on August 6, 2008, at 16:24:45
In reply to Re: Ambien hallucinations, posted by Quintal on August 6, 2008, at 14:00:32
That sounds pretty cool! I'm always jealous when people get fun effects like that from sleep meds. The only thing Ambien ever did for me was to make me not remember what I did after I took it...with the ultimate effect of prolonging a romantic relationship that should not have been (enough said :)). And even that didn't last too long.
Posted by yxibow on August 7, 2008, at 0:29:40
In reply to Ambien hallucinations, posted by Quintal on August 6, 2008, at 11:16:14
Ambien was the only drug I ever had a psychadelic experience -- once. I had to take something after doing a midterm on one hours' sleep with Effexor raging my system. I felt this "sleep --- come to me, envelop me, come with me gently into this peaceful void, it was so fantastic". Never again.
It seems to me that I -sometimes- have novel experiences when a drug hits a particular transmitter that has never been hit, and then it never happens again.
I guess that's how my body works.
I so badly want that experience again -- I don't think I've had any other euphoric experiences except for... oh, yeah, after I had 4 impacted wisdom teeth pulled out under local and I had percocet for three days or so.
Stupid cartoons were hilarious -- I think I deserved that gift after going through 50 minutes of well --- minor surgery. I fell asleep through them but it was nice for a few days.
-- Jay
Posted by Quintal on August 7, 2008, at 18:12:19
In reply to Ambien hallucinations, posted by Quintal on August 6, 2008, at 11:16:14
Nothing happened last night, so I must be developing tolerance to this side effect. I am getting awful withdrawal symptoms from stopping zopiclone I think. I suppose it builds up a plasma level after long term use and the short acting zolpidem just isn't covering it. The last two days I've woken up after two hours in the fetal position, paralysed with anxiety. It's awful, I'm just not sleeping properly, but I think my pdoc would run out of patience with me if I tried to contact him again.
Q
Posted by Amigan on August 9, 2008, at 21:44:34
In reply to Re: Ambien hallucinations, posted by Quintal on August 7, 2008, at 18:12:19
I wonder if these "trips" resembles the trips from Amanita Muscaria mushrooms. Both are GABA agonists...
On the other hand, Benzodiazepines are GABA agonists too, but they are not known to cause hallucinations to the majority of their users. Perhaps this shows us that dispite their similarities, Z's and Benzos have some important differences.
Posted by Valero on August 10, 2008, at 13:10:33
In reply to Re: Ambien hallucinations - Some thoughts, posted by Amigan on August 9, 2008, at 21:44:34
There are some good graphic accounts of Zolpidem ( Stillnoct, Ambien) on erowid.org. This drug did the same for me quite reliably. Though you have to "Stay awake" and concentrate on things. They are not the "visions" and "altered states "like you get with LSD, Salvia or DMT. More a dissociative state, and an ability to see existing things as something else if you stare long and hard enough. It's a rather ridiculous state to be in as memory is patchy, and motor- discoordination with plus 10mg doses will ensure you stagger around like a drunk. I noticed much more pronounced hallucinogenic effects when combined with the herbal AD Hypericum.
Posted by Quintal on August 10, 2008, at 19:31:54
In reply to Re: Ambien hallucinations - Some thoughts, posted by Amigan on August 9, 2008, at 21:44:34
From what I've read zolpidem is peculiar in that it has been found useful for waking people from coma states, and the hallucinogenic/sleepwalking activity is thought to be related to this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolpidem#New_researchI haven't had any hallucinations on zopiclone or any other benzo though. The hallucinations I experienced do seem similar to the ones people report with mushrooms. One other person who had hallucinations on zolpidem (and was a magic mushroom user) thought the same thing.
Q
Posted by yxibow on August 10, 2008, at 20:30:34
In reply to Re: Ambien hallucinations - Some thoughts, posted by Amigan on August 9, 2008, at 21:44:34
> I wonder if these "trips" resembles the trips from Amanita Muscaria mushrooms. Both are GABA agonists...
> On the other hand, Benzodiazepines are GABA agonists too, but they are not known to cause hallucinations to the majority of their users. Perhaps this shows us that dispite their similarities, Z's and Benzos have some important differences.
The differences is that pseudobenzodiazepines are targeted directly at the sleep subreceptor of GABA-A.Benzodiazepine sleep agents are also targeted at the sleep subreceptor, but all benzodiazepines still have sedative-hypnotic (sleep), anxiolytic, amnesic, and anticonvulsive propertices.
The only question is how much of each they have -- Restoril and especially Halcion will have much more targeted at the sleep receptor, but they also will still have minor properties of each of the others I mentioned.
Anything that touches GABA-A will have the panoply of rare to moderate side effects that include sleepwalking, hallucinations, amnesia, etc.
-- Jay
Posted by Quintal on August 10, 2008, at 21:39:32
In reply to Re: Ambien hallucinations - Some thoughts » Amigan, posted by yxibow on August 10, 2008, at 20:30:34
You have such a different 'voice' when I'm under the influence of zolpidem Yxi. You sound like a mature man. Are you still taking Valium? Funny how two minds can meet when both are taking similar drugs. Never mind, I'll explain in the morning if I can remember I posted this!
Q
Posted by yxibow on August 16, 2008, at 0:39:02
In reply to Re: Ambien hallucinations - Some thoughts » yxibow, posted by Quintal on August 10, 2008, at 21:39:32
> You have such a different 'voice' when I'm under the influence of zolpidem Yxi. You sound like a mature man. Are you still taking Valium? Funny how two minds can meet when both are taking similar drugs. Never mind, I'll explain in the morning if I can remember I posted this!
>
> QI am mature, I just need a better outlook on my life so the adult child in me doesn't get the better of me among 64 other constellations of issues and limitations and all sorts of other things that I have described in the past on here.
Hey, if you can still get a hallucinogenic high on zopiclone and actually get benefit and not harm, I don't think psychiatry would mind.
Yes, I am still taking Valium though it has been vastly reduced slowly over time -- I am reeling from the repercussions of that, I am still on a fair dose -- after the yucky gastro stuff stopped, I still have symptom issues and I don't know how long time will take to get rid of them considering that I have been on this at least double edged sword (for me) of a medication for quite a while.-- Jay
Posted by Quintal on August 16, 2008, at 8:34:31
In reply to Re: Ambien hallucinations - Some thoughts » Quintal, posted by yxibow on August 16, 2008, at 0:39:02
Yes, a another reminder not post under the influence of hypnotics.
>Hey, if you can still get a hallucinogenic high on zopiclone and actually get benefit and not harm, I don't think psychiatry would mind.
I've never had hallucinations with zopiclone, but with zolpidem it's happening most nights. The reason I was out of bed and posting is that it has a pardoxical alerting effect at 10mg and I start to 'sleepwalk'. It isn't helping me sleep at all. I am thinking of asking my pdoc to switch me back to zopiclone, but people keep telling me 'just give it another week'. Fine if you're not the one that's trapped.
Q
Posted by Elanor Roosevelt on August 16, 2008, at 19:29:07
In reply to Re: Ambien hallucinations - Some thoughts, posted by Valero on August 10, 2008, at 13:10:33
melting walls and such
i try to just stay in bed with a book
never saw anything i wanted to see again
This is the end of the thread.
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