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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 12:40:29
Curious as therapist said I have so many fears could almost be bordering on paranoia but so much is happening so fast in my life. A life overload. How best to get over it? Any suggestions. Surgery less than two weeks so no med changes now. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Justherself54 on February 7, 2008, at 14:25:13
In reply to When does anxiety become paranoia?, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 12:40:29
> Curious as therapist said I have so many fears could almost be bordering on paranoia but so much is happening so fast in my life. A life overload. How best to get over it? Any suggestions. Surgery less than two weeks so no med changes now. Thanks Phillipa
Try some relaxation exercises maybe? I'm looking for my beginner's yoga tape specifically for relaxation as it really helps to unwind..that may help you and they're usually cheap to buy..one day at a time, sometimes one minute at a time..
I know you are a nurse but could you be very nervous about your upcoming surgery? I know I was a mess for the 2 week period before mine as I'm terrified of "going under"..
Can you take extra anxiety meds when it gets really bad..that's what I did and it helped, especially the day before surgery..
Posted by Maxime on February 7, 2008, at 14:33:39
In reply to When does anxiety become paranoia?, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 12:40:29
I suffered from paranoia when I had a psychotic depression. It's really scary and I am sorry you are going through that.
Paranoia isn't the same as fear though.
Have you ever tried Seroquel? It is great for anxiety and will keep the paranoia away.
What form is your paranoia? Do you have strange thoughts, or do you hear things?
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on February 7, 2008, at 16:34:55
In reply to When does anxiety become paranoia?, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 12:40:29
> Curious as therapist said I have so many fears could almost be bordering on paranoia but so much is happening so fast in my life. A life overload. How best to get over it? Any suggestions. Surgery less than two weeks so no med changes now. Thanks Phillipa
>
>Phillipa...what is your current med regiment anyways? I think I recall Luvox....but thought you had changed. Please let me know. :-)
Jay
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 16:35:51
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia? » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on February 7, 2008, at 14:33:39
Maxie no just increased anxiety. No fear about going under fear of being alone, getting old, nothing to look forward to as getting so old. The bike riding my only source of ridding anxiety won't be able to do for a while. And they said no pain pills. Love Phillipa
Posted by MidnightBlue on February 7, 2008, at 17:02:32
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia? » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 16:35:51
Phillipa,
Why no pain pills? Nothing at all? Not even Tylenol or an NSAID?
MB
Posted by Maxime on February 7, 2008, at 17:08:27
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia? » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 16:35:51
So it's not paranoia. I know you can't start any new meds yet, but I think you should try Seroquel.
Try to think of things that you would like to do and write them down as goals. Then write down the steps you have to take to reach the goals. Don't choose an unrealistic goal. It helps to see it on paper. I just went through the same exercise and it helped.
You are not getting too old to do things. I know someone who did their PhD in their 60s.
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 19:15:54
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia? » Phillipa, posted by MidnightBlue on February 7, 2008, at 17:02:32
MB yes that and a novacaine pump but ibruphrophen won't even get rid of a headache for me. No don't take pain meds just want to know they are an option and can get one. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 19:19:41
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia? » Phillipa, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on February 7, 2008, at 16:34:55
Jay yes only 50mg of luvox and was cutting down on valium from 20mg to l5mg. And as far as seroquel lasted one day and staff at hospital took me off it as almost fainted at 50mg. Yes was a nurse probably the worst part as I know the things that can go wrong. Wrong med in an IV, MRSA. Love Phillipa
Posted by Molybdenum on February 7, 2008, at 21:35:38
In reply to When does anxiety become paranoia?, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 12:40:29
> Curious as therapist said I have so many fears could almost be bordering on paranoia but so much is happening so fast in my life. A life overload. How best to get over it? Any suggestions. Surgery less than two weeks so no med changes now. Thanks Phillipa
Hi Phillipa,
it doesn't sound very professional to me for your therapist to be saying that.
Maybe a new therapist?
And of course if you have anxiety about justifiable fears - bad stuff that you're not imagining, stuff that's really going on in your life now, then that's not paranoia. That's just rational fear.
Try some Xanax short term is my suggestion. I even feel better just having the bottle around "just in case". That way I'm not taking it too often.
Good Luck :)
Posted by bissie66 on February 8, 2008, at 9:59:46
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia? » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 19:19:41
Just another vote for Seroquel here. I only take it as needed - it's not a pleasant feeling like benzos might be but it is a Godsend when you need it. I had paranoid thoughts and heard not voices but footsteps once during PMS. I took a Seroquel and my mind just *stopped*. This was going on at night and I was able to go to sleep after taking it, easily. It was weird b.c. before I took it, I thought it was the middle of the night b.c. my mind had been SO busy, but less than an hour had gone by since I'd gone to bed when I got up and took the Seroquel. My mind had me convinced one hour was five hours. It was hell. Thank God for Seroquel.
Posted by yxibow on February 14, 2008, at 17:16:24
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia?, posted by bissie66 on February 8, 2008, at 9:59:46
Seroquel, possibly, but its important that though one recognize high anxiety it can feed to self-pathologize and give yourself labels. It feeds on itself sometimes. It sounds like you're going through a hard time, that's understandable which can lead to a bit of high anxiety. Doing things helps, I find -- although its hard sometimes when you're caught in things or your illness may prevent you from doing something a creative way around it may be a good thing.
-- tidings
Jay
Posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2008, at 23:11:17
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia?, posted by yxibow on February 14, 2008, at 17:16:24
Hi Jay and thanks need to write you tomorrow. Love Phillipa
Posted by AMY II on February 27, 2008, at 21:22:38
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia?, posted by yxibow on February 14, 2008, at 17:16:24
I haven't been here in a while and I have been SUFFERING for 9 years now. I have mystified every medical doctor and neurologist I have seen. Even an eye doctor.
Every time I went to see a psycologist, they wanted me to talk through what has been happenig to me (see my other posts since 1999 and you will see I need a little more than talk therapy!)
I am going to my 5th appointment with a Pdoc, first time keeping these appts. He already is going into "I need to revisit childhood issues".
To recap, I have tried pretty much every SSRI or SNRI there is. Effexor worked the best for me but still had "weird feelings" in my head. Always had to have zanax handy. Have had weird neurological symptoms for the last nine years. I am being told that this "X" trip I did 9 years ago probably just brought out an underlying condition I have always had and made it worse. I get that. Fine.
He wants to put me on Risperdal, Klonopin, and Clomipramine. I looked up the side effects of Risperdal and NO THANKS. Are you seriously telling me that is my alternative? End up getting TD for the rest of my life? He wants to give me .25 milligrams of it. It seems he just jumped to "an element of psycosis" right away. It kind of pisses me off.
Because now, that is all I think about. Since last week when he said the word "psycosis". I have always said there is something more than anxiety going on and have always wanted a different diagnosis than just anxiety.
Funny and sad at the same time, I went through my old postings and somebody gave me a link to a book. Tormenting thoughts and Rituals. "Tormenting thoughts"??? Somebody else had this??? I bought the book immediately and realized I have OCD too!!!! I could have written some of the things in this book myself. All these years and NOBODY said OCD! Not one person. "Oh, you just have anxiety, it's acute..here is some zoloft, here is some effexor, here is some paxil, here is some cymbalta, here is some buspar, etc."
Some of it is my fault because I couldn't manage to find a psyciatrist and stick with him. Yes that is right, all these years I just haven't done it. I have been so anti pdoc because of the whole "let's look into your childhood" thing.
Somebody please help me. I feel so hopeless right now. I am not doing good. I see the Pdoc tomorrow.
PLEASE READ MY previous threads and somebody HELP!!!!
Posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2008, at 22:12:23
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia?, posted by AMY II on February 27, 2008, at 21:22:38
Amy 11 went to archieves can't find you. Love Phillipa
Posted by AMY II on February 28, 2008, at 0:01:40
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia? » AMY II, posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2008, at 22:12:23
Oh honey I am there. Just do a google search for Amy II. Those are i's not 1's. LOL.
Posted by yxibow on February 28, 2008, at 7:46:38
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia?, posted by AMY II on February 27, 2008, at 21:22:38
> I haven't been here in a while and I have been SUFFERING for 9 years now. I have mystified every medical doctor and neurologist I have seen. Even an eye doctor.
Eye doctor -- has your vision been psychiatrically changed ? I'm just curious because I have a very rare disorder.
>
> Every time I went to see a psycologist, they wanted me to talk through what has been happenig to me (see my other posts since 1999 and you will see I need a little more than talk therapy!)
>
> I am going to my 5th appointment with a Pdoc, first time keeping these appts. He already is going into "I need to revisit childhood issues".Psychotherapy does include knowing the past to view the present. That doesn't mean living in the past. I have troubles with that, that's different -- you live in the Here and Now. As for revisiting childhood issues, thats between you and your therapist -- I think the past teaches us about our present but we should be focused on goals that build "functionality", a bit of a clinical term I must say -- I don't particularly like it but it does have a meaning.
>
> To recap, I have tried pretty much every SSRI or SNRI there is. Effexor worked the best for me but still had "weird feelings" in my head. Always had to have zanax handy. Have had weird neurological symptoms for the last nine years. I am being told that this "X" trip I did 9 years ago probably just brought out an underlying condition I have always had and made it worse. I get that. Fine.Well there is HPPD (Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder) that doesn't normally respond to APs contrary to what one would think but Risperdal sometimes does work.
>
> He wants to put me on Risperdal, Klonopin, and Clomipramine. I looked up the side effects of Risperdal and NO THANKS. Are you seriously telling me that is my alternative? End up getting TD for the rest of my life?First of all, yes, there is a possibility of TD. Risperdal is so far the only AP that has been proven to give TD at presumably certain long term high dose ranges. Low dose Risperdal may have opposite effects actually, although I'm not clear on this being completely true.
Secondly, there are APs with much less risk than Risperdal -- it is now (you can look at my previous postings) believed that conventional antipsychotics are 5% per year to an average possibility of a -lifetime- of 25%, while atypicals in their descending order of potency have shown some but few large order cases. The risk of TD for Seroquel for the average person I forget the previous posting but is somewhere between .1% and .5% per year. In serious anxiety disorders even low doses can have tremendous advantages where the benefits outweigh the risks.
Yes, I am extremely medication sensitive and I will disclose that I possibly developed some neurological conditions from high dose Seroquel use but this is highly unusual and non tardive from all the neurological examinations. It is a tic and is very psychologically motivated and random, which is not characteristic of TD or related conditions which can take years or a lifetime at high doses.
This is why the MED -- the minimum effective dose of a medication is used. .25mg of Risperdal is a very low dose, but you can of course express your adverse feelings towards it or suggest a less potent AP such as Seroquel, which doesn't really begin even to have major psychoactive roles above 100-200mg. Of course, as they say, your miles may vary.
In the short run -- and I am projecting, because I am choosing to continue to stay on Seroquel for the time being because it helps my functionality.
I reserve the option of taking Clozaril, but that is a future issue for reasons of medication clashes and all sorts of issues such as blood tests. Of course, it is the only AP proven not to have caused nearly any TD of any recorded amount. In fact, it is used to ameliorate TD.
He wants to give me .25 milligrams of it. It seems he just jumped to "an element of psycosis" right away. It kind of pisses me off.
Psychosis is quite different from the clinical definition of psychotic. There is also psychosis NOS (not otherwise specified/defined). There are perfectly functional people out there with as you say, elements of psychosis.
I can understand the immediate reaction to probably never hearing such a diagnosis especially so spontaneously. It sounds like a vast diagnosis of a schizophreniform illness. But that is not actually really always the case. You're always welcome to a second opinion of course.
> Because now, that is all I think about. Since last week when he said the word "psycosis". I have always said there is something more than anxiety going on and have always wanted a different diagnosis than just anxiety.This could be, as described below, and I'm not attempting to character assasinate, an obsessive view towards an off remark. But as humans, we do ruminate, I don't think there's anything wrong there.
> Funny and sad at the same time, I went through my old postings and somebody gave me a link to a book. Tormenting thoughts and Rituals. "Tormenting thoughts"??? Somebody else had this??? I bought the book immediately and realized I have OCD too!!!! I could have written some of the things in this book myself. All these years and NOBODY said OCD! Not one person. "Oh, you just have anxiety, it's acute..here is some zoloft, here is some effexor, here is some paxil, here is some cymbalta, here is some buspar, etc."
Yes, I can hear you there, I have comorbid Somatiform NOS, Psychosis NOS, and unspecified OCD (you never do get completely rid of OCD, you just try to manage it through life with both CBT and medication if needed and CBT can be very useful, if one is receptive -- the same goes for therapy, one has to be receptive and commitive to it to gain anything from it and I sometimes try to live in the past where this spontaneous disorder didn't exist, but as I said before, its the Here and Now)> Some of it is my fault because I couldn't manage to find a psyciatrist and stick with him. Yes that is right, all these years I just haven't done it. I have been so anti pdoc because of the whole "let's look into your childhood" thing.
Well, it takes a while to build a relationship with a psychiatrist and/or psychologist. Perhaps this isn't the right person for you. As for one of my therapists, it is really a mixture of what is right for the patient. The individual has to have a say in therapy, one doesn't sit on the couch and be therapised. You can always be critical of what was said -- of course there are always consequences, there may be a reparte, a discussion back. That is what therapy is about.> Somebody please help me. I feel so hopeless right now. I am not doing good. I see the Pdoc tomorrow.
>
> PLEASE READ MY previous threads and somebody HELP!!!!
Posted by AMY II on February 28, 2008, at 13:54:29
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia? » AMY II, posted by yxibow on February 28, 2008, at 7:46:38
I am sorry but your posting to me was scrambled, all over the place, and not making sense. I was having a hard time following most of what you were saying. It was like you were bunching alot of things together (your problems, my problems, medicines, etc.) I was getting confused. No offense at all but, I just didn't get it.
Posted by yxibow on March 1, 2008, at 2:27:29
In reply to Re: When does anxiety become paranoia? » yxibow, posted by AMY II on February 28, 2008, at 13:54:29
> I am sorry but your posting to me was scrambled, all over the place, and not making sense. I was having a hard time following most of what you were saying. It was like you were bunching alot of things together (your problems, my problems, medicines, etc.) I was getting confused. No offense at all but, I just didn't get it.
I'm sorry, perhaps I was being too clinical. My main 2 points were 1) what was the optical issue and 2) a lot of people are concerned with TD with the atypicals, which I wrote a link to on a previous posting on the board that although anything can happen, and all we know is that the sun will probably rise tomorrow, serious anxiety can be quite dampened by a small effective dose of Seroquel which is now believed to be probably the safest atypical at around .1% TD risk.
What you were saying about the confusion, yes, I was projecting my illness simply because I was saying that people can have comorbid (multiple diagnoses) such as OCD + something else, but with the right tuning of medication can have greatly improved functioning in life.
I guess I projected because frankly I feel sort of alone in my complex and I wanted to know how you felt and what was really diagnosed. But that's your business obviously and you don't need to say it.
Point being anxiety doesn't necessarily lead to paranoia, extremely anxious situations can include a little paranoia, but all of these things are biological for the most part, with psychological components. Your body changes over time, its just how one is born (one can argue all of the nature and nurture but for myself I know I was born a bit differently)
Lastly I was just making a suggestion that there could be a bit of obsessiveness over the concept that there is paranoia or psychosis going on -- and there are multiple definitions of psychosis, a word I don't particularly like since I can certainly carry on a conversation and my intellect is quite intact.
Anyhow, if it wasn't useful, well -- as is said here, maybe don't believe all you read, or reread it if you wish. I was just trying to be helpful and I know I tend to ramble. I always have had run-on sentences -- its not a pathology :)
Do take care-- tidings
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