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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tecknohed on October 1, 2007, at 12:36:22
To a relevant degree I mean. I've heard some say sertraline & others say paroxetine, even within the medical profession! Or is it both? Are there others?
And just to be clear, I'm asking about SSRIs NOT SNRIs.
Thanx.
Posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2007, at 12:57:04
In reply to Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by tecknohed on October 1, 2007, at 12:36:22
Seriously why does everyone seem to want to increase dopamine? Phillipa
Posted by tecknohed on October 1, 2007, at 13:07:05
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2007, at 12:57:04
From experience, it boosts confidence. Have you ever tried cocaine? Or a recreational dose of amphetamine/methamphetamine?
I used to self-medicate my social anxiety with amphetamines. Was the most addictive drug I've ever taken.
Posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2007, at 13:14:23
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too? » Phillipa, posted by tecknohed on October 1, 2007, at 13:07:05
No never. I was married with kids in the 60's so missed the drug free love period. Phillipa
Posted by tecknohed on October 1, 2007, at 13:36:31
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too? » tecknohed, posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2007, at 13:14:23
To put it another way: For a social phobic (pardon the labelling - I am one myself), being in the same room as attractive member(s) of the opposite sex would probably cause some distress. Now a benzo might help a social phobic stay calm & relaxed in thier presence, but might not be enough for them to pluck up the courage to go & 'chat up' the attractive man/woman. Though a line of 'coke' might (probably would) be enough to at least talk to them. Combining both would be even better!!!
But I'm not looking for the excessive confidence which coke can give. I just want a med that can 'normalize' my dopamine functioning which I believe (& various studies have shown) to play a critical role in social anxiety.
Posted by your#1fan on October 1, 2007, at 13:41:30
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too? » tecknohed, posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2007, at 13:14:23
Yes do a degree for some reason SSRI's do increase i little amount of dopamine i heard. Because it eventaully stops the reptake of serotonin. Then dopamine comes out.
Amphetamines do boost confidence, a false feeling of confidence because of the dopamine that is released in the nerve synapse. D-amphetamine, if used in prescribed doses helps with your concentration with work, and your confidence in your work also. Recretational doses make you do things that you dont ever do, go all over the place, or really get hyped up about alot of things.
They are additive.
Thats why alot of people ask if there is dopamine antidepressants, so it makes things more intresting.
Posted by your#1fan on October 1, 2007, at 13:45:09
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?-phillipa, posted by your#1fan on October 1, 2007, at 13:41:30
see what i mean phillipa....techacko. It does increase your activity and confidence. Speech, everything. But its best when you learn it on your own.
Benzodiazpeines just are "relievers" they dont cause you do have that activty psychostimulants use.
Posted by Amigan on October 1, 2007, at 17:42:17
In reply to Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by tecknohed on October 1, 2007, at 12:36:22
> To a relevant degree I mean. I've heard some say sertraline & others say paroxetine, even within the medical profession! Or is it both? Are there others?
>
> And just to be clear, I'm asking about SSRIs NOT SNRIs.Interesting topic! I'm also interested to know.
I don't know about paroxetine but if you search google with the right keywords, you will see that sertaline has a weak Dopamine reuptake inhibiting action in high doses.
In any case, i don't believe that SSRIs are much of dopamine increasers. All of them can cause EPS and akathisia. Conditions related to low dopamine activity.
Posted by bleauberry on October 1, 2007, at 19:25:19
In reply to Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by tecknohed on October 1, 2007, at 12:36:22
Prozac increases dopamine according to a pubmed study. Even more so when combined with zyprexa. I don't know for sure, but I suspect all SSRIs do to some degree.
Whether that is clinically useful or helpful I believe is unpredictable. I've heard of people taking deprenyl who get the same numbed out emotionless feeling they had on ssris. So just increasing dopamine or norepinephrine really doesn't mean anything. All the neurotransmitters and hormones are so intricately interlinked that you cannot affect one with affecting the other in some unpredictable way.
That being said, prozac does increase dopamine levels.
Posted by your#1fan on October 1, 2007, at 20:45:38
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by bleauberry on October 1, 2007, at 19:25:19
I take prozac and i have realized a diffrence, something its really weird, but god i must tell you that Prozac just two pills in the morning make my entire day change, i mean im telling you like life pattern change. Its wonderful. I never really thought that an SSRI would do this for me.
I can handle prozac'kys little sometimes anxiety rushes, but it keeps me with life, i mean if i wasnt on it......."yes i need to be commited for a month" ROFL!
Oh im sorry i just want to say prozac has really changed and saved my life. Really.
There a good story here from a person, about prozac.
Posted by cactus on October 1, 2007, at 21:07:00
In reply to Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by tecknohed on October 1, 2007, at 12:36:22
> To a relevant degree I mean. I've heard some say sertraline & others say paroxetine, even within the medical profession! Or is it both? Are there others?
>
> And just to be clear, I'm asking about SSRIs NOT SNRIs.
>
> Thanx.the winner is ZOLOFT. It has the highest dopamine reuptake out of all the SSRI's
Posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2007, at 21:46:14
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by cactus on October 1, 2007, at 21:07:00
Cactus how do you know this? Phillipa
Posted by tecknohed on October 2, 2007, at 5:31:18
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by bleauberry on October 1, 2007, at 19:25:19
Its not that I ONLY want to increase dopamine. It appears (from what I've read & what people have said over the years) that low levels of three Neurotransmitters play a crucial role in Social anxiety/phobia. These are serotonin, Dopamine & GABA. I believe noradrenalin/norepinephrine can play a role too, especially for anticipatory anxiety (which not all social phobics may suffer from).
However, the only way to boost all these is to take an MAOI (particularly Nardil) which I'm reluctant to do again. So my only way to achieve my desired effect is to combine meds. And I figure that the less meds I take the better (less burden on the liver, ect).
My question at the start of this post was to perhapse find a drug (ie. sertraline - thanx cactus!) that can boost more than just one of these chemicals and so resulting in me needing to take 2 or three, instead of 4 drugs (one for each neurotransmitter).
I know nobody knows 'exactly' how these drugs produce thier mood elevating/anxiolytic effects but its important to make use of the knowledge that we DO know.
Posted by Amigan on October 2, 2007, at 7:51:27
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by cactus on October 1, 2007, at 21:07:00
> > To a relevant degree I mean. I've heard some say sertraline & others say paroxetine, even within the medical profession! Or is it both? Are there others?
> >
> > And just to be clear, I'm asking about SSRIs NOT SNRIs.
> >
> > Thanx.
>
> the winner is ZOLOFT. It has the highest dopamine reuptake out of all the SSRI'sWhich drug will win if we bring SNRIs into the competition? Effexor?
Posted by medweirdo on October 2, 2007, at 13:43:15
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by tecknohed on October 2, 2007, at 5:31:18
tecknohed, it might be interesting you - about new class of drugs - SNDRI, see it in the following topic:
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=70699
Besides the above link there is a phase III of drug of a new class which actually stabilize dopamine... that's really new. I don't know but maybe that's what social anxiety users need?
see it in the here:
Posted by tecknohed on October 2, 2007, at 14:04:11
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by medweirdo on October 2, 2007, at 13:43:15
Posted by medweirdo on October 2, 2007, at 15:04:38
In reply to FASCINATING! THANKS!!! (nm) » medweirdo, posted by tecknohed on October 2, 2007, at 14:04:11
I'm a social anxiety sufferer by myself and I believe there is some hope out there.
As for me like your case amphatamines (ritalin in my case) make me feel very normal and not compulsive with others and really helps me conteract with people and take decisions. but the bad news is after 2 or 3 hours it just makes me feel very deppressed and effectiveness decrease just after one dose... =(
Posted by tecknohed on October 2, 2007, at 15:42:23
In reply to Re: FASCINATING! THANKS!!! » tecknohed, posted by medweirdo on October 2, 2007, at 15:04:38
I hear ya! ampetamines are no solution.
By the way, I just registered at that site you provided a link to: www.socialanxietysupport.com using the same username as I use here. Are you a member? Maybe we'll meet on there sometime.You can babblemail me if you want. Just click on my user-name above (in blue). Sorry, dont know if you're new here or not.
Posted by cumulative on October 2, 2007, at 15:43:22
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by tecknohed on October 2, 2007, at 5:31:18
>My question at the start of this post was to perhapse find a drug (ie. sertraline - thanx cactus!) that can boost more than just one of these chemicals and so resulting in me needing to take 2 or three, instead of 4 drugs (one for each neurotransmitter).
I mean, despite affecting dopamine, sertraline and fluoxetine are still pretty ineffective in social phobia in the tests. You'd probably want a psychostimulant add-on (or amineptine -- wish that was still out there).
Posted by tecknohed on October 2, 2007, at 15:49:43
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too? (( tecknohe, posted by cumulative on October 2, 2007, at 15:43:22
> I mean, despite affecting dopamine, sertraline and fluoxetine are still pretty ineffective in social phobia in the tests. You'd probably want a psychostimulant add-on (or amineptine -- wish that was still out there).
I've tried them both & they do seem to me to be the most 'activating' SSRIs out there. Adding a benzo might make them more effective for SP & I already take clonazepam. Mind you, at the moment it aint doing s**t!
Posted by medweirdo on October 2, 2007, at 16:05:09
In reply to Re: FASCINATING! THANKS!!! » medweirdo, posted by tecknohed on October 2, 2007, at 15:42:23
I just sent you a PM in socialanxietysupport you can see me that as Longway there.
Posted by cactus on October 2, 2007, at 18:40:23
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too? (( tecknohe » cumulative, posted by tecknohed on October 2, 2007, at 15:49:43
> > I mean, despite affecting dopamine, sertraline and fluoxetine are still pretty ineffective in social phobia in the tests. You'd probably want a psychostimulant add-on (or amineptine -- wish that was still out there).
>
> I've tried them both & they do seem to me to be the most 'activating' SSRIs out there. Adding a benzo might make them more effective for SP & I already take clonazepam. Mind you, at the moment it aint doing s**t!
>How long have you been on clonazepam? It can take a while to kick in as it builds up in you system? I'm an alcoholic and if I drank while using clonazepam it made things much worse. I think it's just one of those drugs that you CAN NOT drink on. I'm not saying that you're a drinker though OK!!! But even just a few drinks seemed to make it rather useless and really messed with my head
Posted by tecknohed on October 2, 2007, at 19:50:07
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too? (( tecknohe, posted by cactus on October 2, 2007, at 18:40:23
> How long have you been on clonazepam? It can take a while to kick in as it builds up in you system? I'm an alcoholic and if I drank while using clonazepam it made things much worse. I think it's just one of those drugs that you CAN NOT drink on. I'm not saying that you're a drinker though OK!!! But even just a few drinks seemed to make it rather useless and really messed with my head
I'm alcoholic too! Been 'dry' since Jan 2002. My drinking had more to do with my SP than anything else though. Been off drugs even longer, apart from a recent dabble with cannabis, which I stopped same time as Nardil, about 2 months ago.
Been on Clonazepam over 9 months, mostly at 1.5mg/day. This is probably too low. Mind you, today I had a particularly bad panic attack (not the Panic Disorder type, but panic nonetheless). I took 2mg at once & after 2 hours it still didn't have the disired effect. I'm putting myself on 2mg/day as from yesterday - I have just enough for this 'till I see my pdoc next.
By the way, I seen my GP today & told her of my week-long holiday starting this Saturday. Asked for a week-long course of chlordiazepoxide (Librium) to help me enjoy myself whilst I'm away. Instead she gave me Oxazepam. She said its similar to Valium. I'd never heard of it before. Still, I'm keen to see what it does. It's supposed to replace the clonazepam for a week but no doubt I'll experiment with the two together - maybe replace half the Clon with Ox. I've noticed a few people take 2 benzos, must be something to it.
Posted by bleauberry on October 2, 2007, at 20:40:18
In reply to Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by tecknohed on October 1, 2007, at 12:36:22
While zoloft has the highest dopamine reuptake of the ssris, it is still very low. Prozac's ability to stimulate the release of dopamine is hugely more powerful than zoloft's ability to shore up tiny amounts of dopamine. There was a study at pubmed that looked at this very topic. Zoloft came nowhere close to the increase of dopamine that prozac did. Just looking at anecdotal reports, fewer people complain of the ssri numbness thing on prozac than on zoloft.
Posted by Amigan on October 3, 2007, at 9:34:09
In reply to Re: Which SSRIs increase dopamine too?, posted by bleauberry on October 2, 2007, at 20:40:18
> While zoloft has the highest dopamine reuptake of the ssris, it is still very low. Prozac's ability to stimulate the release of dopamine is hugely more powerful than zoloft's ability to shore up tiny amounts of dopamine. There was a study at pubmed that looked at this very topic. Zoloft came nowhere close to the increase of dopamine that prozac did. Just looking at anecdotal reports, fewer people complain of the ssri numbness thing on prozac than on zoloft.
What about fluoxetine Vs venlafaxine? I suppose that the SNRI wins as it is more "dirty", right?
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