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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Guy on July 10, 2007, at 15:46:47
In reply to Did I die and go to hell?, posted by deniseuk190466 on July 10, 2007, at 13:03:01
Denise, I know how you feel as I have been there many times myself. Just keep in mind that you are not thinking properly right now and that on another day, when you are feeling better, you will wonder what the heck that was all about. As for the Christian stuff, I wouldn`t worry too much. Trust me, you are not going to hell. Look to nature for what is real and not real. Why don`t you tell us about your diagnosis and the meds you have tried. Perhaps then we can make some suggestions for you. If you are feeling really suicidal, find the number for the crisis line at the beginning of your phone book and dial it right now. Sometimes just talking to other caring people can help you through a crisis. If you have a psychiatrist you could also phone that person. There is a reason to live, and you will see that on another day. Be strong! We are all warriors and we will fight on no matter how great the foe. Your fellow anxiety-sufferer. PS - When I feel really desperate, I take 10 mg of Zyprexa and that seems to help. Have you ever tried that.
Posted by FredPotter on July 10, 2007, at 16:44:04
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell?, posted by Guy on July 10, 2007, at 15:46:47
I've felt like this so often. I look back and think, "was that me writing that?" At present I have responded well to Nardil, but it's a long wait. I think ECT is a good idea and is not the badly controlled electrocution it once was. Ignore all those silly books that say otherwise. I like what David Hume says about hell. Something like, punishment is for correction so why would it carry on long after the scene has finished? Also if I make it to heaven what sort of a person am I if I rejoice and thank God if many of my loved ones went to hell? I wouldn't want to spend eternity surrounded by selfish people like that.
I find a feeling of relief reading anti-religion books like "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris and "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins (but I prefer Sam Harris)
Blessings
Fred
Posted by Phillipa on July 10, 2007, at 17:30:54
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell?, posted by FredPotter on July 10, 2007, at 16:44:04
Denise did something happen or are just fed up? I get that way too. E-mail is always open to you. Love Phillipa plesase stay safe.
Posted by OzLand on July 10, 2007, at 18:00:04
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell?, posted by FredPotter on July 10, 2007, at 16:44:04
Dear FredPotter
ECT may not be what it was in the past, but my experience this March tells me that it is still something to be careful about doing. I did not fare so well in that I started to have significant confusion, disorientation, inability to focus and concentrate, and severe short term memory (could not remember anything for more than one day max). I also had and still have retrograde amnesia and basically holes in my memory. I still have some short term memory problems but can remember things now for around one to two weeks before it is gone. I can watch a TV show from a month ago and think I never saws it before. So, I think ECT still remains individual, and no one escapes memory problems. Some people do not mind that, and other mind it very much. Some past memories, I don't care that I don't remember, but others like from my educational experiences, you are darn right I care. I even researched ECT extensively before I did it and only did two times per week RUL rather than 3 times per week. I have yet to see anyone totally spared of problems. Some people will say it helped them a lot, and that is good. If you ask them more questions, though, what I have found is that they have deficits of one sort or another and have decided those deficits are preferable to psychosis or depression or whatever. It is easy to say I would be okay with this or that. I said it, and then I found out I better stop after number 7 or I might never be able to do my job. So, I went back to meds. I was still depressed, but I found a great therapist too, means more than meds or ECT to me.
Posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2007, at 22:30:23
In reply to Did I die and go to hell?, posted by deniseuk190466 on July 10, 2007, at 13:03:01
When Jesus said that the Kingdom of heaven was spread out before us and we do not see it, he meant that heaven and hell are here now, and that we are blind. The Church has made of that a message that children can easily grasp. The hell you are in is here. There is no other one later. A loving God who cares about each and every one of us? Is that just a metaphor or something, or wish fulfillment? And of course if you could see the future you would avoid it. Just as well we can't. Is life worth it? I'm certainly not going to say so. If you can though find something somewhere that you can enjoy just a little. Whatever it is it won't come from the pharmacy.
Posted by deniseuk190466 on July 11, 2007, at 14:51:23
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell?, posted by Guy on July 10, 2007, at 15:46:47
Guy,
Thanks for responding and thanks for the reassuring words, I wish that was all it took though. The other night I was looking up Hell and whether it really exists according to the Bible because I get so worrried that I'm already there.
Yes I like you have relied on Zyprexa 10mg (now 2.5mg) now and again just to break the grip of depression/anxiety and it has been a God Send. The thing is I don't want to have to take it and also although I don't know what I'd do without it but it is very emotionally blunting when I take it initially.
I take it feel better physically and mood wise slightly but still don't really feel like I've got any real appetite for like in a real, meaningful sense. Then the Zyprexa starts to wear off, I can tell because I feel like a click in my neck then very fatigued and then it's back to feeling depressed and anxious again. So it's round and round, like I'm just about existing and functioning with the aid of Zyprexa.
I'm taking Lexapro and have been on it for months but I know it's not working as it should (because I know what they feel like when they do work and it's not like I've been feeling) which is really exhausted sometimes, I mean like I'm dragging myself around. I feel awful off meds as well so can't just blame the lexapro. But I know it's not working properly.
Over the past six years, I took:-
Seroxat (anxiety)
Mirtazapine (zombie with anxiety)
Sertraline - Slightly better but still not right.
Effexor - more relaxed but still not right.
Prozac - Nothing.
Prozac and high dose doxepin (prothiaden)
Lithium and Prozac
Lamictal - Nothing
Tegretol - Nothing
Nardil (very relaxed but also very depressed)
Then finally Seroxat 40mg (eureka!) something happened and I actually started enjoying life for two years, no anxiety, looking forward to things again, enjoying sex (like never before).
Then two years later Seroxat stops working so try adding tegretol for a bit (just more tired but less anxious), tried adding lamictal (again more tired but less anxious):-upping the dose of Seroxat - Nothing
Adding Mirtazapine (slightly better still not right)
Coming off Seroxat and just mirtazapine on it's own - anxious and depressed still.
Came off drugs completely - Sheer hell.Now on lexapro for three months and although sometimes I feel like it's helping my mood at the same time I feel sluggish, tired and physically wretched, like I can't breathe, my shoulders are constantly up, even though I try to relax them, I feel in a constant state of Fight or flight.
So now here I am taking Lexapro, knowing it's not working properly and relying on Zyprexa to give me a break now and again.
I'm also having CBT and although it's nice to sit there and just tell it how it is for an hour or so, while something sits there and just listens and nods without judging or making suggestions I really don't know where it is going. I haven't suddenly had a revelation or gained any real insight into myself. Last time I went I just felt more depressed really.
I don't know what to try or do next, I just don't want to keep living like this.
Guy, what are you taking now, what have you tried and what has and hasn't worked for you?
Denise
Posted by deniseuk190466 on July 11, 2007, at 15:04:44
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell?, posted by FredPotter on July 10, 2007, at 16:44:04
Fred,
I might try reading those books. When I had a two year spell of feeling better, I went on this Alpha Course (religious course) because I thought maybe if I found God then I wouldn't get really bad again but the course didn't really answer any of my question although I am always really curious about people who say that they have felt God or have been overcome by the Power of the Holy Spirit. I keep wanting The Holy Spirit to overcome me so that I wouldn't have to rely on Zyprexa.
People who are religious say that Jesus loves you and wants what's best for you but I can only think that people who say that are really not feeling that bad otherwise they couldn't think that. I guess when you are feeling desperate you long for some more powerful force to save you because no-one on this earth seems to be able to.
I will try and read those books though, thanks for recommending them and thanks for taking the time to respond.
By the way I keep toying with the idea of ECT,, although I know it's nothing to be toyed with but I wonder what I have to lose. But then I think well at least with the help of Zyprexa I am able to work and then if I had ECT I wouldn't even be able to do that then I probably would go mad but I guess I could do charity work. I really don't know. My psychiatrist is against my having ECT and won't even discuss it with me as an option as she says I don't suffer with straight forward depression. I don't know what I suffer from, this time it has felt worse than dysthymia. I have had dysthymia like depression between 17 and 24. This time it feels worse or it could just be that I've had about enough of it.
What really scares me is the fact that some people don't get any relief (not even from Zyprexa) that is just too awful to consider.
I'm glad Nardil is helping you, maybe I should have had the patience to stick it out longer than a month I just really felt that it wasn't helping.
Have you had ECT Fred?
Denise
Posted by deniseuk190466 on July 11, 2007, at 15:08:49
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell?, posted by Phillipa on July 10, 2007, at 17:30:54
Hi Phillipa,
No nothing awful happened, I just don't know what to do sometimes I just get scared that I'm going to be like this forever and all that I am waiting for is for my life to be over. I just feel the need to get it off my chest sometimes on this forum because it's only on this forum that people can really relate.
I do feel better today (but tired still) because I took a Zyprexa a couple of days ago and it sort of helps over a period of days.
Anyway, thanks for the concern, are you sleeping better these days? I know you said you were sleeping a lot lately, do you feel better for it?
Denise
Posted by deniseuk190466 on July 11, 2007, at 15:20:36
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell? » FredPotter, posted by OzLand on July 10, 2007, at 18:00:04
Ozland,
I remember you saying you had ECT and found it very hard on your memory. At least you knew to stop after 7 sessions though.
How is this therapy helping you and how long have you been seeing a therapist? I've been seeing one now for about six weeks and so far haven't found it useful.
Also, how is xxxxxxxxxxxx (LCAT) doing now?
Denise
Posted by Zyprexa on July 11, 2007, at 15:59:26
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell? Guy, posted by deniseuk190466 on July 11, 2007, at 14:51:23
20-40% of mental patients have a difficiencly, which when corrected with B-vitamins and produce relife. Its cheep and worth a try. I found it to help tremendously.
Posted by Fivefires on July 11, 2007, at 17:29:24
In reply to Did I die and go to hell?, posted by deniseuk190466 on July 10, 2007, at 13:03:01
(((((((((Denise)))))))))
I've been there, beyond just the thoughts.
I've run the gamut of ADs, but, currently trying Cymbalta for first time ... began good, then got bad, so now going to try a smaller dose, but now my hope has been shaken. I'm reading an article about the MAOIs being overlooked. I'm trying to remember if I've ever been on one. Someone just suggested Elavil. (I'm shaking my head.) I keep asking myself what will work for me? Or, did I miss something good, because I was scared off too easily re: bad side effects?
I think the only meds helping me are, 1) narcotics I started years ago for a c-spine injury. (There's an article in July issue of Elle about them being used for depression.) (Sorry anti-narcs!) And, 2) Xanax for anxiety. (Sorry anti-benzos!)
I notice Zyprexa followed up re: vites and there is so much truth to this part of our feeling well.
I've strayed away from good alternatives and know I need to get them back into my routine.
I feel as if I'm waiting for something-or-someone to save me. I know 'I need to do the work', but still, I find myself waiting.(?)
I've gotten as far as 'at least setting the vites out where I can see them'! Now if I'd just take them!!!
I rationalize becuz' of lactose intolerance and IBS, that I have nothing to take them with!
A container of Boost w/o milk product would be perfect, and, I have some!!!
Just for u and I, I'm going to go drink a bottle of it w/ my mag/cal and b-vites and fish oil right now. Thank u for helping me. By hearing you, I here myself.
You're not in hell; you're in heaven if here.
tks&bestwishes2u, 5f
Posted by Guy on July 11, 2007, at 18:58:20
In reply to Did I die and go to hell?, posted by deniseuk190466 on July 10, 2007, at 13:03:01
Denise, I have also been on lots of meds and also have a love/hate relationship with Zyprexa. My big problem has always been insomnia and attendant anxiety. Right now I am taking 100 mg of Doxepin (tricyclic AD)and 5 mg diazepam. The doxepin helps me sleep, but otherwise does very little for my anxiety. I have to work really hard not to panic when I wake up in the middle of the night. Have you ever tried a clonazepam/AD combo? Some people with anxiety find that really helpful. As for your fear of hell, that is probably something you will have to resolve for yourself. If you really want to believe that stuff I don't think there is much I can say or do to change your mind. I can, however, tell you what I think and maybe that will help allay your fears a little bit. We are as much a part of nature as a spider, a frog or an oak tree. Just look around, and you will see everything is inter-connected. It is absolutely mind-blowing to think that all life on Earth came from a ball of fire some four and a half billion years ago! (This is scientific fact.) The universe is an incredible mystery and it is there that I find my spiritual home. People who feel as one with the universe also feel a deep sense of peace and joy. (I keep trying. LOL) That is all the religion anybody needs! We share the same destiny as all other living things on this planet, and I can assure you that nobody is going to hell...that is just something humans have invented and repeated and repeated until lots of people believe it's true. So, just because you don't buy into an orthodox religion doesn't mean you are an atheist or a non-spiritual person. Here is a site that discusses Scientific Pantheism. It echoes a lot of the things I have said and you might find it interesting. I don't subscribe as I am quite a loner and like to find my own way in the world. Take care now Denise, and rest assured that hell does not fit into Mother Nature's plans. PS. Zen Buddhists describe hell as an anxiety state and heaven as a state of peace and harmony. http://members.aol.com/Heraklit1/basicpri.htm
Posted by OzLand on July 11, 2007, at 19:53:20
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell? To Ozland, posted by deniseuk190466 on July 11, 2007, at 15:20:36
She would prefer you do not refer to her in posts especially by her name. She is doing okay, off on a vacation now I understand.
Posted by FredPotter on July 11, 2007, at 20:31:10
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell? To Fred, posted by deniseuk190466 on July 11, 2007, at 15:04:44
No I haven't had ECT. I was on Nardil for 6.5 weeks before it worked. I ramped up the dose gradually to 75mg/day. I saw a therapist who said that mental suffering helped me learn compassion (the growing soul is watered best by tears of sadness). I reject this. I've always been compassionate. Also if I don't believe in a hereafter what would I be learning it for, if the suffering goes into old age?
Perhaps I shouldn't have recommended those books. Have you read "Against Depression" by Peter Kramer? It's not a self-help book but a scholarly look at depression as a physically devastating illness. We deserve treatment, and for it to be taken very seriously and discussed openly.
BTW have you seen the thread I started on Ketamine? It gives new hope
Blessings
Fred
Posted by gretta on July 12, 2007, at 23:45:15
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell?, posted by Guy on July 10, 2007, at 15:46:47
denise:
your words, though desperate, have a sense of yourself in them i can tell. many of us here have said "if i had only known what it would be like now...". and im going through similar feelings myself. just the same as living is about feeling high and low...and not numb. living is also about not knowing. you could never have known what lay in store in your future, and though it's bad now...remember that there's more future to come...and you dont know it'll be bad or good....but i garuntee it'll be different. and we can all use a change.
Posted by Kneeko on July 14, 2007, at 23:53:28
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell? Guy, posted by deniseuk190466 on July 11, 2007, at 14:51:23
No, your not in hell just where everyone is. Although, you can take solace in that at some point in your life provided your with us they continue making more drugs and discoveries and find some cure that will work for you, or maybe its already out there and you haven't found it. Have a good day Denise if you can still smile!
Posted by Deniseuk190466 on July 15, 2007, at 13:46:03
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell?, posted by Fivefires on July 11, 2007, at 17:29:24
Thanks fivefires, maybe you should give the elavil a go. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain and if it doesn't work at least you can cross it off your list of things to try.
I'm glad my post helped you to feel not so alone although wish I didn't think these sort of things at all or feel bad enough to think these things.
I hope the vitamins help :-)
Denise
Posted by Deniseuk190466 on July 15, 2007, at 13:50:40
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell?, posted by Guy on July 11, 2007, at 18:58:20
Hi Guy,
Thanks for the link, I'll read some of what you are saying later on and I tend to agree with the Zen Buddhists as constant anxiety does feel like hell and then when it goes it feels like heaven. I just wish I could meditate myself well :-) I have tried, it just tends to make me feel more apathetic than relaxed.
But thanks again for the reassurance.
Denise
Posted by Deniseuk190466 on July 15, 2007, at 13:59:47
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell?, posted by gretta on July 12, 2007, at 23:45:15
.
Posted by Deniseuk190466 on July 15, 2007, at 14:01:27
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell? Guy, posted by Kneeko on July 14, 2007, at 23:53:28
Thanks Kneeko,
Just hope they have some breakthroughs soon and that I don't have to wait until I'm 70.
Having said that Zyprexa does help a lot with the tension and anxiety, so at least I have that.
Denise
Posted by Fivefires on July 15, 2007, at 14:36:09
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell? To Fivefires, posted by Deniseuk190466 on July 15, 2007, at 13:46:03
I was on Elavil ... can't remember when ... maybe a couple years ago. I believe I got headaches.
5fT
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2007, at 8:25:04
In reply to Re: Try a B-complex!? B-100, B-50 » deniseuk190466, posted by Zyprexa on July 11, 2007, at 15:59:26
> 20-40% of mental patients have a difficiencly, which when corrected with B-vitamins and produce relife.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding B-complexes to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20070601/msgs/770043.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2007, at 8:33:03
In reply to Re: PLEASE DO NOT USE HER NAME IN POSTS » deniseuk190466, posted by OzLand on July 11, 2007, at 19:53:20
> She would prefer you do not refer to her in posts especially by her name.
Sorry to interrupt again, but I'd also like to redirect follow-ups regarding USING HER NAME IN POSTS to Psycho-Babble Administration. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20070702/msgs/770051.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2007, at 8:48:34
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell?, posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2007, at 22:30:23
> If you can though find something somewhere that you can enjoy just a little. Whatever it is it won't come from the pharmacy.
Sorry to interrupt again, but I'd also like to redirect follow-ups regarding things that won't come from the pharmacy to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20070707/msgs/770059.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Jeroen on July 22, 2007, at 17:13:06
In reply to Re: Did I die and go to hell? Guy, posted by deniseuk190466 on July 11, 2007, at 14:51:23
seek help immediatelly, you might be suffering from a treatment resistant psychosis like me
tell your competent doctor! : |
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