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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tom Twilight on February 1, 2007, at 12:33:46
A word of warning to everyone on the boards
Dexedrine precipitated my GAD & Panic Disorder
I'm not anti stimulant by any means, I'm sure they can work great.
I was careless though
Just a few months of using Dexedrine was enought to cause me permanent problems.
Now I basically suicidal, my life is over.I'm sorry I don't mean to be meladramatic, its just that I wish someone had warned me before I started.
As I said I'm not anti Stim, but please be careful!
Posted by Tom Twilight on February 1, 2007, at 12:46:37
In reply to Stimulants-Please be careful!, posted by Tom Twilight on February 1, 2007, at 12:33:46
Sorry I can't even write properly
I used to feel sorry for people who did posts like these!
Posted by dbc on February 1, 2007, at 13:14:12
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful!, posted by Tom Twilight on February 1, 2007, at 12:46:37
To be frank the drugs didnt cause these problems. You had latent problems and it brought them out. Im in the same boat though because dexedrine seemed to uncover some panic disorder problems i had lurking around in my subconscious. Now im stuck taking 3mg of xanax a day and seeing a therapist untill i can get this resolved.
But you can bet when this becomes a non-issue im going straight back to dexedrine. Its the only thing thats helped my dysthymia/adhd-i and made me feel like a human.
Posted by Tom Twilight on February 1, 2007, at 13:35:14
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful!, posted by dbc on February 1, 2007, at 13:14:12
As I've said I not anti-stimulant
If they work, good for you!
Some people can take them long term and be fineIn my case I think I haven't been "right" since I took Dexedrine, although my problems have got worse over the years!
I hope your right, and drug use didn't cause my problems, in which case they might be easier to solve, however some people can have long term anxiety caused by drug use.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on February 1, 2007, at 14:22:29
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful!, posted by Tom Twilight on February 1, 2007, at 13:35:14
Tom are you alright?
Please take care!
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by dbc on February 1, 2007, at 15:14:42
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful!, posted by Meri-Tuuli on February 1, 2007, at 14:22:29
I forgot to tell you that i really do understand what a panic problem is like. I've been admitted to more ERs in the last 4 months than i have in the rest of the 26 years of my life combined. Its incredibly crippling when you cant get it under control. The constant state of fear and worry is so taxing and disorientation and derealization is scary as hell.
It will get under control and stop eventually, things do get better.
Posted by Tom Twilight on February 1, 2007, at 15:37:16
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful!, posted by dbc on February 1, 2007, at 15:14:42
How did you get it under control?
Benzo's work for me, off course, unfortunatly the UK is Incredibly Benzo Phobic!
Posted by dbc on February 1, 2007, at 15:50:00
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful!, posted by Tom Twilight on February 1, 2007, at 15:37:16
Unfortunately, my answer is benzos. Im sorry man...
Posted by Reggie BoStar on February 1, 2007, at 16:11:35
In reply to Stimulants-Please be careful!, posted by Tom Twilight on February 1, 2007, at 12:33:46
Hi Tom,
Are you being treated by a pdoc or therapist? I may be wrong, but it sounds like you're either not in treatment or your current pdoc is not producing decent results. Which is it?
If you have GAD, you can be treated for it. There's no reason why you can't get some kind of help that would at least keep it under control.
I'm an alcoholic, so I can't do Benzos either (I'm in the states where Benzos fall like rain). Instead they gave me Buspar, which works GREAT for GAD. It's not like a Benzo or a Trank at all. It's not even in the same class with any of those.
But it does work for GAD. It's easily tolerated by a lot of people. Why not look into it?
Good luck,
Reggie BoStar
Posted by yxibow on February 1, 2007, at 20:07:30
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful! » Tom Twilight, posted by Reggie BoStar on February 1, 2007, at 16:11:35
> Hi Tom,
>
> Are you being treated by a pdoc or therapist? I may be wrong, but it sounds like you're either not in treatment or your current pdoc is not producing decent results. Which is it?
>
> If you have GAD, you can be treated for it. There's no reason why you can't get some kind of help that would at least keep it under control.
>
> I'm an alcoholic, so I can't do Benzos either (I'm in the states where Benzos fall like rain). Instead they gave me Buspar, which works GREAT for GAD. It's not like a Benzo or a Trank at all. It's not even in the same class with any of those.Actually Librium (a benzodiazepine) is used for alcoholism detox.
> But it does work for GAD. It's easily tolerated by a lot of people. Why not look into it?
>
If you're 1/3 of the people who respond to BuSpar, you're in great company. BuSpar was an attempt to create another atypical antipsychotic. It did not have enough dopamine activity and was shelved to return as marketed as an anxiolytic for its 5HT activity. If BuSpar is taken at astronomical doses for experimental treatment of TD, it begins to have D2 activity.
Posted by Phillipa on February 1, 2007, at 23:26:03
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful! » Reggie BoStar, posted by yxibow on February 1, 2007, at 20:07:30
Tom what happened? Love Phillipa
Posted by Reggie BoStar on February 2, 2007, at 8:53:39
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful! » Reggie BoStar, posted by yxibow on February 1, 2007, at 20:07:30
Actually, yxibow, Benzos are only used during Alcohol detox treatments. Once the detox treatments are complete, Benzos are contraindicated. This is why I, along with the vast majority of substance abusers, are not prescribed Benzos after detox treatment is done. Since I never specified why Benzos were contraindicated for me, you were premature in your assumption that I meant detox as well as post-detox recovery.
Also, I never said anything about using Buspar as an antipsychotic. I referred to it as a treatment for GAD, which you verified by describing it as an anxiolytic. In this context, its lack of success as an antipsychotic is irrelevant. I'm not sure why you mentioned this at all.
As far as the 1/3 response, that depends on whose study you choose to believe. Among those which include its use as treatment for dual diagnosis (anxiety and alcoholism) conditions as well as GAD, these studies show a higher response:
Tollefson GD, Montague-Clouse J, Tollefson SL. Treatment of comorbid generalized anxiety in a recently detoxified alcoholic population with a selective serotonergic drug (buspirone). J Clin Psychopharmacol. 1992;12:19-26.
Kranzler HR, Burleson JA, Del Boca FK, et al. Buspirone treatment of anxious alcoholics. A placebo-controlled trial. Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1994;51:720-731.
J Clin Psychiatry. 1990 Sep;51 Suppl:40-5. A double-blind, controlled trial in primary care patients with generalized anxiety: a comparison between buspirone and oxazepam. Strand M, Hetta J, Rosen A, Sorensen S, Malmstrom R, Fabian C, Marits K, Vetterskog K, Liljestrand AG, Hegen C. Primary Care Center, Enkoping, Sweden.
I would be very much interested in knowing which studies you are citing when you report a 1/3 response rate to Buspar.
Thanks,
Reggie BoStar
Posted by Reggie BoStar on February 2, 2007, at 9:04:04
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful! » Reggie BoStar, posted by yxibow on February 1, 2007, at 20:07:30
Hi yxibow,
Just re-read my last message to check for an error I thought I made in quoting one of those studies.
I didn't like the tone of what I wrote. Sorry about that. I had all four wisdoms out last Tuesday. I'm writing in declarative and gross run-on sentences that may seem curt. I just can't think much beyond subjects and verbs at the moment.
I am interested in that 1/3 study though. Take care my friend,
Reggie BoStar
Posted by mindevolution on February 2, 2007, at 18:03:35
In reply to Stimulants-Please be careful!, posted by Tom Twilight on February 1, 2007, at 12:33:46
> A word of warning to everyone on the boards
>
> Dexedrine precipitated my GAD & Panic Disorder
>
> I'm not anti stimulant by any means, I'm sure they can work great.
>
> I was careless though
> Just a few months of using Dexedrine was enought to cause me permanent problems.
> Now I basically suicidal, my life is over.you can get through it, and you will get through it, it will just take time and a supportive environment.
you need to understand that you are now in a very vunerable position, and people may try and take advantage of your situation. my advice is avoid further damaging treatments where possible, so that when you do recover, you make the highest level recovery possible. that is do not consider ECT or Antipsychotics until you have exhausted all other options first!
so go to church, try meditation, therapy groups, exercise vitamin regimes, surrounding yourself with supportive people and getting an easier job until you recover. take all the stress away and see what happens over time. my guess is you'll recover nicely.
you are sensitive to meds so be very careful of any and all meds in the future, do research yourself, try and get independent sources and speak to patients that have actually taken the drug to reassure yourself of its safety.
> I'm sorry I don't mean to be meladramatic, its just that I wish someone had warned me before I started.
it is good to warn people about the dangers of meds. all too often doctors don't tell the patients about the risks and sometimes they are misled by research performed by the drug companies rather than independent sources.
> As I said I'm not anti Stim, but please be careful!
absolutely!
me
Posted by yxibow on February 2, 2007, at 21:23:50
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful! » yxibow, posted by Reggie BoStar on February 2, 2007, at 8:53:39
> Actually, yxibow, Benzos are only used during Alcohol detox treatments. Once the detox treatments are complete, Benzos are contraindicated. This is why I, along with the vast majority of substance abusers, are not prescribed Benzos after detox treatment is done. Since I never specified why Benzos were contraindicated for me, you were premature in your assumption that I meant detox as well as post-detox recovery.
I know that they are used in detox, that's all I meant. If it came out in any other way, I apologize. Yes, they're most likely contraindicated for most substance abusers unless the use of them far outweighs the potential of misuse.
>
> Also, I never said anything about using Buspar as an antipsychotic.
How did I say this ? I was making an observation that BuSpar was an attempt at creating an antipsychotic that was instead placed on the market for GAD.
I referred to it as a treatment for GAD, which you verified by describing it as an anxiolytic. In this context, its lack of success as an antipsychotic is irrelevant. I'm not sure why you mentioned this at all.
I mentioned purely for its medical interest. There wasn't anything there that said you were taking it for psychosis at all.
>
> As far as the 1/3 response, that depends on whose study you choose to believe. Among those which include its use as treatment for dual diagnosis (anxiety and alcoholism) conditions as well as GAD, these studies show a higher response:
>
> Tollefson GD, Montague-Clouse J, Tollefson SL. Treatment of comorbid generalized anxiety in a recently detoxified alcoholic population with a selective serotonergic drug (buspirone). J Clin Psychopharmacol. 1992;12:19-26.
>
> Kranzler HR, Burleson JA, Del Boca FK, et al. Buspirone treatment of anxious alcoholics. A placebo-controlled trial. Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1994;51:720-731.
>
> J Clin Psychiatry. 1990 Sep;51 Suppl:40-5. A double-blind, controlled trial in primary care patients with generalized anxiety: a comparison between buspirone and oxazepam. Strand M, Hetta J, Rosen A, Sorensen S, Malmstrom R, Fabian C, Marits K, Vetterskog K, Liljestrand AG, Hegen C. Primary Care Center, Enkoping, Sweden.
>
> I would be very much interested in knowing which studies you are citing when you report a 1/3 response rate to Buspar.These are 15 year old studies -- but I'm just coming from common knowledge gathered from experience with a number of doctors that BuSpar works for about a 30% responding rate, which, considering that the responding rate of placebos are 30%, is not a bad amount.
It has a higher effectiveness than 1/3, I will agree for patients with mild GAD. It does not have very successful use in patients with major anxiety disorders such as panic disorder.
Other statements do uphold your success that if one waits long enough, and BuSpar is not a drug initially effective, there may actually be greater effective rates than previously thought. It is not a substitute for a benzodiazepine and will not produce quick results that panic disorders and other high intensity anxiety disorders benefit from agents such as Klonopin, Ativan, Xanax, and Valium.
It does have the advantage (and I understand for you) that it is not addictive as far as we know and is fairly well tolerated except for dizziness which does occur in a certain percentage of people (as did for me, I can't quite describe the dizziness but it was something just not quite right.)
So no worries, I understand that we all can get intense on here at times and I am not offended and it was a compliment that you responded to the medication and I hope you continue to do so.-- tidings
Jay
Posted by willyee on February 3, 2007, at 14:45:57
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful!, posted by Tom Twilight on February 1, 2007, at 13:35:14
I agree,which is why im kinda iffy on the whole parnate resambles amphetmine thing.
Dexadrine was no parnate,you felt it come on hard,and the crash was hard.If re-dosing or benzo wasnt used after the CRASH,it was horror.
I quickly ended that and even refused lower doses,ha a doc pushing it on me,i bet some people are dying to get this.
I feel for you,perhaps there are people who need this,but for the ones who dont,as you describe,i truly wish you can find a docter willing to use benzo therapy with you,it probuably is your best bet.
I doubt actual damage was done,instead simply put stims can reak havoc on people who dont need them,and it feels like something is broke,but addicting or not,klonopin for example would prob do you wonders,id re approach your doc about benzo use.
Best Wishes
Posted by Reggie BoStar on February 3, 2007, at 15:08:47
In reply to Re: BuSpar » Reggie BoStar, posted by yxibow on February 2, 2007, at 21:23:50
Hi Jay,
Did you see my second posting on this topic? Yeah, I ate humble pie after I posted the first one. I could have worded it a lot more politely than I did, and for that I am sorry.
Thanks for that informed response, too....
Take care my friend,
Reggie BoStar
Posted by rina on February 4, 2007, at 15:17:47
In reply to Stimulants-Please be careful!, posted by Tom Twilight on February 1, 2007, at 12:33:46
> A word of warning to everyone on the boards
>
> Dexedrine precipitated my GAD & Panic Disorder
>
> I'm not anti stimulant by any means, I'm sure they can work great.
>
> I was careless though
> Just a few months of using Dexedrine was enought to cause me permanent problems.
> Now I basically suicidal, my life is over.
>
> I'm sorry I don't mean to be meladramatic, its just that I wish someone had warned me before I started.
> As I said I'm not anti Stim, but please be careful!Thank you for the insight. It's good to know how certain stimulants effect others. I used to take methalphinate(sorry for the spelling) generic for Ritalin. Ritalin did nothing but the generic for some reason workded better for some reason.
Posted by rina on February 4, 2007, at 15:20:16
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Please be careful! » Tom Twilight, posted by willyee on February 3, 2007, at 14:45:57
> I agree,which is why im kinda iffy on the whole parnate resambles amphetmine thing.
>
> Dexadrine was no parnate,you felt it come on hard,and the crash was hard.If re-dosing or benzo wasnt used after the CRASH,it was horror.
>
> I quickly ended that and even refused lower doses,ha a doc pushing it on me,i bet some people are dying to get this.
>
> I feel for you,perhaps there are people who need this,but for the ones who dont,as you describe,i truly wish you can find a docter willing to use benzo therapy with you,it probuably is your best bet.
>
> I doubt actual damage was done,instead simply put stims can reak havoc on people who dont need them,and it feels like something is broke,but addicting or not,klonopin for example would prob do you wonders,id re approach your doc about benzo use.
>
The crash is definitely horrible, especially if it isn't extended release. I found what was very successful for me, which was suggested by my pdoc, to drink a cup of coffee to combat the withdrawal, it does wonders and is effective.
> Best Wishes
This is the end of the thread.
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