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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 4, 2006, at 15:27:48
Ok , for any of you out there who know alot about this stuff, I would appreciate some insight. I have tried tons of stuff for my " depression" - basically " low energy, motivation , physical fatigue, etc, etc. " , which I think is caused by low dopamine...
Well started Geodon , really low dose 20 mg a couple of dayt1a agonist , ago and the physical fatigue, depression component is way way better already.. but, I have noticed a major jump in anxiety , and its hard to sit still, shaking, etc.
As far as I know geodon is 5ht2a antagonist, 5ht1a agonist, some D (?) antogonist and alpha -2 andrenoreceptor agonist( is this right??) Anyway the question is ..
could the excessive anxiety part be caused by the alph-adren antagonism?? Supposedly yohibine supplement has that proerty and I was a shaking wreck the couple time I took it. Or could it be something else?
Would a decrease of the already small dose help? or would something like Nefazodone ( which I have tried fairly successfully in the past) which is a 5ht2a antagonist + a 5ht1a agonist ( pindolol? ) be better?
Sorry , kind of convoluted, but I think I am starting to get an idea, but would love some input from you guys? Thanks
JB
Posted by Phillipa on September 4, 2006, at 19:27:27
In reply to Geodon - - depression better - anxiety worse., posted by Jimmyboy on September 4, 2006, at 15:27:48
Jimmyboy aren't you on your first week of ENSAM. Maybe it's kicking in? Love Phillipa
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 4, 2006, at 19:52:06
In reply to Re: Geodon - - depression better - anxiety worse. » Jimmyboy, posted by Phillipa on September 4, 2006, at 19:27:27
No, Iv'e been on the EMSAM for a couple of weeks and had not noticed any effect ( other than transitory when I first started taking it).. I really think its the GEodon . I'm so sick of different medicines.. I could function on Serzone , was no superstar or anything, but I could tolerate it and it worked OK. MAybe I should just settle for that.. Hope you are well.
JB
Posted by SLS on September 4, 2006, at 20:45:51
In reply to Geodon - - depression better - anxiety worse., posted by Jimmyboy on September 4, 2006, at 15:27:48
Hi.
I wasn't aware that Geodon was a NE alpha-2 antagonist. I know it is a NE alpha-1 antagonist. This would cause some dizziness.
Many people do experience anxiety as a side effect of Geodon. Contributing to this might be its ability to inhibit the reuptake of NE and 5-HT.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 4, 2006, at 21:07:16
In reply to Re: Geodon - - depression better - anxiety worse., posted by SLS on September 4, 2006, at 20:45:51
> Hi.
>
> I wasn't aware that Geodon was a NE alpha-2 antagonist.I see from the PDSP database that Geodon has a modest affinity for NE alpha-2a/b/c receptors, so your theory as to why you are experiencing anxiety is quite plausible. Clonidine, a NE alpha-2 agonist used to treat hypertension, was used as the hot ligand to test for receptor occupancy in the database. This drug might act as an antidote to reduce your anxiety if Geodon is worth continuing for its antidepressant effect.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 4, 2006, at 21:18:31
In reply to Re: Geodon - - depression better - anxiety worse., posted by SLS on September 4, 2006, at 21:07:16
> > Hi.
> >
> > I wasn't aware that Geodon was a NE alpha-2 antagonist.
>
> I see from the PDSP database that Geodon has a modest affinity for NE alpha-2a/b/c receptors, so your theory as to why you are experiencing anxiety is quite plausible. Clonidine, a NE alpha-2 agonist used to treat hypertension, was used as the hot ligand to test for receptor occupancy in the database. This drug might act as an antidote to reduce your anxiety if Geodon is worth continuing for its antidepressant effect.One thing, though. Despite the occasional use of clonodine as a sedative or anxiolytic, it can be depressogenic.
- Scott
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 4, 2006, at 23:18:46
In reply to Re: Geodon - - depression better - anxiety worse., posted by SLS on September 4, 2006, at 21:18:31
Thanks for the info , I will have to check that out..
JB
Posted by willyee on September 5, 2006, at 9:56:23
In reply to Geodon - - depression better - anxiety worse., posted by Jimmyboy on September 4, 2006, at 15:27:48
> Ok , for any of you out there who know alot about this stuff, I would appreciate some insight. I have tried tons of stuff for my " depression" - basically " low energy, motivation , physical fatigue, etc, etc. " , which I think is caused by low dopamine...
>
> Well started Geodon , really low dose 20 mg a couple of dayt1a agonist , ago and the physical fatigue, depression component is way way better already.. but, I have noticed a major jump in anxiety , and its hard to sit still, shaking, etc.
>
> As far as I know geodon is 5ht2a antagonist, 5ht1a agonist, some D (?) antogonist and alpha -2 andrenoreceptor agonist( is this right??) Anyway the question is ..
>
> could the excessive anxiety part be caused by the alph-adren antagonism?? Supposedly yohibine supplement has that proerty and I was a shaking wreck the couple time I took it. Or could it be something else?
>
> Would a decrease of the already small dose help? or would something like Nefazodone ( which I have tried fairly successfully in the past) which is a 5ht2a antagonist + a 5ht1a agonist ( pindolol? ) be better?
>
> Sorry , kind of convoluted, but I think I am starting to get an idea, but would love some input from you guys? Thanks
>
> JBGlad to hear your at least having some success,im curious,its been a few days since your first dose,are you still getting a fair anti depressant effect?
I ask because i have the med in question but am so scared of these anti psych med stories im scared to use it.But if i hear for a second it can posess a lasting mood elevation id use it.
P.S I know there are different beta blockers,and calcium channel blockers,not sure if they are the same,but i have used clonidine and found it too strong,i actualy stumbled by accident on a lesser known beta blocker,thanks to my fahter,called LOPRESSOR,i know with his low end insurance he still only pays pennies for it,and it really stops physical anxiety,shakes etc,i also noticed unlike clonidine it worked without being strong,and actualy at times helped me mood,might wanna look into it,again its a beta block of a lesser known called LOPRESSOR.
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 5, 2006, at 16:35:36
In reply to Re: Geodon - - depression better - anxiety worse. » Jimmyboy, posted by willyee on September 5, 2006, at 9:56:23
Um, yeah actually I can not personally reccommend Geodon, yes.. I did feel a lift in mood almost immediately, but the anxiety was bad bad, and I was wired and up all night long last night ( insomnia is a side effect for some at low doses) , and let me tell you , I love to sleep and I sleep hard, that is really rare for that to happen to me.
Obviously this is just my experience, but I don;t think its good for me, just seemed to come on really strong and fast. Kinda weird.
Adios
JB
Posted by Phillipa on September 5, 2006, at 19:33:23
In reply to Re: Geodon - - depression better - anxiety worse. » Jimmyboy, posted by willyee on September 5, 2006, at 9:56:23
Will that's the one my first pdoc put me on to get my body ready for paxil he said. I took 25mg and it made me extremely tired. Dragged out. I did try the treadmill and couldn't raise my pulse. As soon as I could I went off it probably about six months later. Love Phillipa
Posted by willyee on September 6, 2006, at 0:24:33
In reply to Re: Geodon - - depression better - anxiety worse., posted by Jimmyboy on September 5, 2006, at 16:35:36
> Um, yeah actually I can not personally reccommend Geodon, yes.. I did feel a lift in mood almost immediately, but the anxiety was bad bad, and I was wired and up all night long last night ( insomnia is a side effect for some at low doses) , and let me tell you , I love to sleep and I sleep hard, that is really rare for that to happen to me.
>
> Obviously this is just my experience, but I don;t think its good for me, just seemed to come on really strong and fast. Kinda weird.
>
> Adios
>
> JB
Gtocha,i dabbed quick stabs at it,in low doses and each time i felt the effect it scared me off and i took my AD which had strong enough dopamine properties im guessing to reverse the geodon dose,but because of the small doses and effect i never came close to going full throttle dont think i will now still.Again the only thing i remember helping a bit was i had a protocol of a morning dose of parnate that was a bit high,well the highest i go period in a single dose which is 50 mg,and i would add the smallest pieace of ablifiy u can get from a tab,it worked well for over a week straight i remember i was up early and felt ok.
It was only a sample so i never went back for the ablifiy but i know taking a higher dose wasnt better in that case,maybe ill re look into it,but thanks im usualy good at feeling a drug out and geodon dident feel right which is why its not been used at all.
Posted by Another Phil on October 1, 2006, at 23:21:50
In reply to Re: Geodon - - depression better - anxiety worse., posted by willyee on September 6, 2006, at 0:24:33
I have serious treatment-resistant depression, but my anxiety doesn't rise to the level that I need to treat with meds. Anyway, several years ago, I took a low dose of Geodon for about two weeks (I don't remember the exact dose). It was a *fantastic* antidepressant for me. However, the word "insomnia" doesn't seem adequate to explain my inability to sleep while on it. To put this into perspective, I was wide awake for 7 days on end. One night, at about 4 a.m., I remember thinking, "if I'm going to keep taking this stuff, I'm going to have to get cable t.v."
This is the end of the thread.
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