![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 14 to 38 of 39. Go back in thread:
Posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 7:40:07
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Squiggles, posted by MARTY on July 3, 2006, at 23:12:21
> > From benzo.org.uk:
> > also known as Lorazepam, the equivalence is
> >
> > 1-2Ativan : 0.5Klonopin
>
> > http://benzo.org.uk/ (Equivalence Table).
> > Squiggles
>
> Nice equivalence table, bad table cell ;)
>
> Take a look again on the table and you'll see that 1 mg (NOT 1 - 2 mg) of Lorazepam (Ativan) is equivalent to 0.5 mg of Clonazepam (Klonopin).
>
> See ya around
> Marty
>
I see 1-2 with a footnote on
alternative approximations; i'm
not sure how you interpret that as
1;Squiggles
Posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 9:43:41
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » MARTY, posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 7:40:07
> I see 1-2 with a footnote on
> alternative approximations; i'm
> not sure how you interpret that as
> 1;
>
> Squiggles
>:P I'm sorry to insist to look again.. there's benzos starting with "LO" and even one by "LOR" maybe you look to fast... I asure you that LORAZEPAM (ATIVAN, TEMESTA) is 1 mg in the table.
Marty
Posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 9:52:48
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Squiggles, posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 9:43:41
> > I see 1-2 with a footnote on
> > alternative approximations; i'm
> > not sure how you interpret that as
> > 1;
> >
> > Squiggles
> >
>
> :P I'm sorry to insist to look again.. there's benzos starting with "LO" and even one by "LOR" maybe you look to fast... I asure you that LORAZEPAM (ATIVAN, TEMESTA) is 1 mg in the table.
>
> MartyYou're right! I'm sorry and glad I was
not prescribing.Squiggles
Posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 9:55:42
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » MARTY, posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 9:52:48
> > Marty
>
> You're right! I'm sorry and glad I was
> not prescribing.
>
> Squiggles:P LOL Happens to me all the time :)
Marty
Posted by Crazy Horse on July 4, 2006, at 10:39:23
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Squiggles, posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 9:55:42
> > > Marty
> >
> > You're right! I'm sorry and glad I was
> > not prescribing.
> >
> > Squiggles
>
> :P LOL Happens to me all the time :)
>
> MartyDAMN..I can b a r e l y bring myself to say this.. but (for once) Martin is right...oops almost had to regurgitate..:) But thanks to BOTH of you for careing enough to respond...:) MARTINI..FOR A CAN UH DUH boy, your pretty smart! :)
CRAZY MONTE
Posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 13:35:58
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » MARTY, posted by Crazy Horse on July 4, 2006, at 10:39:23
> FOR A CAN UH DUH boy, your pretty smart! :)
>uh, Tell me something I don't know. Look at this, is an excerpt from PubMed:
In a double-blind clinical trial, 29 Canadian and 27 placebo have been challenged to the elevated plus maze. 8% (2.32) of the Canadians succeed in finding the cheese at the middle of the maze. Only 6% (1.62) of the placebo succeed the same test. In light of these isignificant results, we can't conclude anything but that both, Canadians and Placebo, seems to be attracted by cheese. More study should be make in order to determine if is itn't cheese that is attracted to both Canadians and Placebo. Either way, Canadian were barely superior to placebo and so deserve to be called "Intelligent Human Beings". It is of interest to note that one of the Canadian f**ked the cheese and that a new species arise from this act. After a couple of minutes the strange specimen shouted "POUUUTINE!!!!!" and start to sing something remembering Celine Dion, but without all those common disgraful note. More study should be done on that specimen that we decided to call "Quebecer".
Ia. 100-29, University FisherPrice. Marty, Bexton and NGO 2006. (n18, p28 - Journal of United BS)
See ? :)=
Marty
Posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 13:58:51
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Crazy Horse, posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 13:35:58
> > FOR A CAN UH DUH boy, your pretty smart! :)
> >
>
> uh, Tell me something I don't know. Look at this, is an excerpt from PubMed:
>
> In a double-blind clinical trial, 29 Canadian and 27 placebo have been challenged to the elevated plus maze. 8% (2.32) of the Canadians succeed in finding the cheese at the middle of the maze. Only 6% (1.62) of the placebo succeed the same test. In light of these isignificant results, we can't conclude anything but that both, Canadians and Placebo, seems to be attracted by cheese. More study should be make in order to determine if is itn't cheese that is attracted to both Canadians and Placebo. Either way, Canadian were barely superior to placebo and so deserve to be called "Intelligent Human Beings". It is of interest to note that one of the Canadian f**ked the cheese and that a new species arise from this act. After a couple of minutes the strange specimen shouted "POUUUTINE!!!!!" and start to sing something remembering Celine Dion, but without all those common disgraful note. More study should be done on that specimen that we decided to call "Quebecer".
>
> Ia. 100-29, University FisherPrice. Marty, Bexton and NGO 2006. (n18, p28 - Journal of United BS)
>
>
>
> See ? :)=
> MartyHee :-)
I was wondering if the Placebo group was defined as a nation; i.e. "distinct" from the rest of Canada, and what kind of cheese was used - was it Stilton or Rocquefort? I saw a neologism in some articles (Dr. Torrey used it) in psychiatric
lingo - anasognosia [?], but that couldn't be it because lack of self-awareness seems such an essential characteristic of those who populate the land of the free and the home of the brave.
When you're no. 1 you don't need self-awareness - you're recognized like a Roman. Must have been a multi-cultural group of rodents - yup maybe
Canuck rodents.Squiggles
Posted by sdb on July 4, 2006, at 16:51:52
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » MARTY, posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 13:58:51
45mg ketazolam or 60mg prazepam could be a very good alternative to clonazepam etc.
Valium (diazepam) is just a dirty drug compared with ketazolam (see some studies, which I can support completely). Unfortunately both substances are not available in pharmacies, but maybe by chemical providers or import in the US.
Posted by Crazy Horse on July 5, 2006, at 9:36:21
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Crazy Horse, posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 13:35:58
> > FOR A CAN UH DUH boy, your pretty smart! :)
> >
>
> uh, Tell me something I don't know. Look at this, is an excerpt from PubMed:
>
> In a double-blind clinical trial, 29 Canadian and 27 placebo have been challenged to the elevated plus maze. 8% (2.32) of the Canadians succeed in finding the cheese at the middle of the maze. Only 6% (1.62) of the placebo succeed the same test. In light of these isignificant results, we can't conclude anything but that both, Canadians and Placebo, seems to be attracted by cheese. More study should be make in order to determine if is itn't cheese that is attracted to both Canadians and Placebo. Either way, Canadian were barely superior to placebo and so deserve to be called "Intelligent Human Beings". It is of interest to note that one of the Canadian f**ked the cheese and that a new species arise from this act. After a couple of minutes the strange specimen shouted "POUUUTINE!!!!!" and start to sing something remembering Celine Dion, but without all those common disgraful note. More study should be done on that specimen that we decided to call "Quebecer".
>
> Ia. 100-29, University FisherPrice. Marty, Bexton and NGO 2006. (n18, p28 - Journal of United BS)
>
>
>
> See ? :)=
> MartyYou are freakin' CRAZY Louis!!! You are definitely a "Cheesy CA NAH DEE UN!" And i think the cheese you eat is "dusted" with PCP :)
I most definiely feel a strong cognitive enhancer, perhaps NAMENDA, may help a "man" like you with severe dementia and most definite symptoms of progressive Alzheimer's disease. Memantine may be used in conjunction w/acetylcholinesterase inhibitors to help even a severe case as yours. Unfortunately, cognitive improvement with w/severe dementia cases like yours with Namenda is only modest...which for you would be a HUGE improvement. :)Your adopted big bro,
CRaZy HOrSe (huma comana letesh)
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 5, 2006, at 21:59:56
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Crazy Horse, posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 13:35:58
> FOR A CAN UH DUH boy, your pretty smart! :)
>
> Crazy Horse> More study should be done on that specimen that we decided to call "Quebecer".
>
> MartyPlease don't post anything that could lead others (such as Canadians or Quebecers) to feel put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're bad people.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by sdb on July 7, 2006, at 21:00:33
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Squiggles, posted by MARTY on July 3, 2006, at 23:12:21
> > From benzo.org.uk:
> > also known as Lorazepam, the equivalence is
> >
> > 1-2Ativan : 0.5Klonopin
>
> > http://benzo.org.uk/ (Equivalence Table).
> > Squiggles
>
> Nice equivalence table, bad table cell ;)
>
> Take a look again on the table and you'll see that 1 mg (NOT 1 - 2 mg) of Lorazepam (Ativan) is equivalent to 0.5 mg of Clonazepam (Klonopin).
>
> See ya around
> Marty
>
If you want to change the duration of action and the amount (ng/ml) of clonazepam during time you can simply drink some grapefruit juice (clonazepam is mainly substrate of CYP3A4, grapefruit juice is an "OTC" inhibitor of CYP3A4). The effect of grapefruit juice
on clonazepam, diazepam and other drugs can be up to 24h. Hypericum (St. John's wort) does the opposite and it would lead to faster breakdown of clonazepam (inducer of CYP3A4).
Lorazepam is not substrate of CYP3A4, thus you can not change things with simple methods. Be careful doing that because the change on metabolism will depend on several factors eg. age, liver function, different phenotypes of the CYP3A4, other drugs you take and the dosages. I tested this myself with low dosages and the research is more or less consistent with reality.sdb
Posted by Squiggles on July 7, 2006, at 21:16:43
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to??, posted by sdb on July 7, 2006, at 21:00:33
> > > From benzo.org.uk:
> > > also known as Lorazepam, the equivalence is
> > >
> > > 1-2Ativan : 0.5Klonopin
> >
> > > http://benzo.org.uk/ (Equivalence Table).
> > > Squiggles
> >
> > Nice equivalence table, bad table cell ;)
> >
> > Take a look again on the table and you'll see that 1 mg (NOT 1 - 2 mg) of Lorazepam (Ativan) is equivalent to 0.5 mg of Clonazepam (Klonopin).
> >
> > See ya around
> > Marty
> >
>
>
> If you want to change the duration of action and the amount (ng/ml) of clonazepam during time you can simply drink some grapefruit juice (clonazepam is mainly substrate of CYP3A4, grapefruit juice is an "OTC" inhibitor of CYP3A4). The effect of grapefruit juice
....
> sdb
"duration" but not potency right?Squiggles
Posted by sdb on July 8, 2006, at 6:09:04
In reply to Re: Rumination-snapper, posted by Squiggles on July 7, 2006, at 21:16:43
> > > > From benzo.org.uk:
> > > > also known as Lorazepam, the equivalence is
> > > >
> > > > 1-2Ativan : 0.5Klonopin
> > >
> > > > http://benzo.org.uk/ (Equivalence Table).
> > > > Squiggles
> > >
> > > Nice equivalence table, bad table cell ;)
> > >
> > > Take a look again on the table and you'll see that 1 mg (NOT 1 - 2 mg) of Lorazepam (Ativan) is equivalent to 0.5 mg of Clonazepam (Klonopin).
> > >
> > > See ya around
> > > Marty
> > >
> >
> >
> > If you want to change the duration of action and the amount (ng/ml) of clonazepam during time you can simply drink some grapefruit juice (clonazepam is mainly substrate of CYP3A4, grapefruit juice is an "OTC" inhibitor of CYP3A4). The effect of grapefruit juice
> ....
> > sdb
>
>
> "duration" but not potency right?
>
> Squiggles
>Yes.
Posted by sdb on July 8, 2006, at 18:57:54
In reply to Re: Rumination-snapper (nm), posted by sdb on July 8, 2006, at 6:09:04
> > > > > From benzo.org.uk:
> > > > > also known as Lorazepam, the equivalence is
> > > > >
> > > > > 1-2Ativan : 0.5Klonopin
> > > >
> > > > > http://benzo.org.uk/ (Equivalence Table).
> > > > > Squiggles
> > > >
> > > > Nice equivalence table, bad table cell ;)
> > > >
> > > > Take a look again on the table and you'll see that 1 mg (NOT 1 - 2 mg) of Lorazepam (Ativan) is equivalent to 0.5 mg of Clonazepam (Klonopin).
> > > >
> > > > See ya around
> > > > Marty
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you want to change the duration of action and the amount (ng/ml) of clonazepam during time you can simply drink some grapefruit juice (clonazepam is mainly substrate of CYP3A4, grapefruit juice is an "OTC" inhibitor of CYP3A4). The effect of grapefruit juice
> > ....
> > > sdb
> >
> >
> > "duration" but not potency right?
> >
> > Squiggles
> >
>
> Yes.Here is a study but diazepam is not only metabolized by CYP3A4:
------------------------------------------------------------------Eur J Drug Metab Pharmacokinet. 1998 Jan-Mar;23(1):55-9. Related Articles, Links
Interaction between grapefruit juice and diazepam in humans.
Ozdemir M, Aktan Y, Boydag BS, Cingi MI, Musmul A.
Department of Pharmacology, Medical Faculty, University of Osmangazi, Eskisehir, Turkey.
Grapefruit juice has been reported to markedly improve the bioavailability of triazolam, midazolam, terfenadine, cyclosporine and several dihydropyridine calcium channel blockers including felodipine, nifedipine, nitrendipine and nisoldipine. Because these drugs are metabolized by the hepatic cytochrome P450 isozyme (CYP) 3A4, the inhibitory effect of grapefruit juice is thought to results from inhibition of CYP3A4. In this study, our aim was to investigate the effects of grapefruit juice on plasma concentrations of diazepam. Eight healthy male and female subjects participated in this study. Oral (5 mg) diazepam was administered with either 250 ml water and grapefruit juice. Blood samples were collected for a 24 h period, and whole blood concentrations of diazepam were measured enzyme immunoassay. The mean AUC(0-24) of diazepam was increased 3.2-fold (P < 0.001) and Cmax was increased 1.5-fold (P < 0.05) by the grapefruit juice. Grapefruit juice postponed the tmax of diazepam from 1.50 h to 2.06 h (P < 0.01).
Posted by Squiggles on July 8, 2006, at 19:15:21
In reply to Re: Rumination-snapper }} Squiggles, posted by sdb on July 8, 2006, at 18:57:54
> Here is a study but diazepam is not only metabolized by CYP3A4:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Eur J Drug Metab Pharmacokinet. 1998 Jan-Mar;23(1):55-9. Related Articles, Links
>
> Interaction between grapefruit juice and diazepam in humans.
>
> Ozdemir M, Aktan Y, Boydag BS, Cingi MI, Musmul A.
>
> Department of Pharmacology, Medical Faculty, University of Osmangazi, Eskisehir, Turkey.
>
> Grapefruit juice has been reported to markedly improve the bioavailability of triazolam, midazolam, terfenadine, cyclosporine and several dihydropyridine calcium channel blockers including felodipine, nifedipine, nitrendipine and nisoldipine. Because these drugs are metabolized by the hepatic cytochrome P450 isozyme (CYP) 3A4, the inhibitory effect of grapefruit juice is thought to results from inhibition of CYP3A4. In this study, our aim was to investigate the effects of grapefruit juice on plasma concentrations of diazepam. Eight healthy male and female subjects participated in this study. Oral (5 mg) diazepam was administered with either 250 ml water and grapefruit juice. Blood samples were collected for a 24 h period, and whole blood concentrations of diazepam were measured enzyme immunoassay. The mean AUC(0-24) of diazepam was increased 3.2-fold (P < 0.001) and Cmax was increased 1.5-fold (P < 0.05) by the grapefruit juice. Grapefruit juice postponed the tmax of diazepam from 1.50 h to 2.06 h (P < 0.01).
>Interesting; drug interactions are interesting in
general but to know exactly what effect one
drug has on another, or on an enzyme or hormone
can be very useful. In this case the inhibition of grapefruit juice (not just grapefruit because
of quantity i would imagine) can be used for or
against the potentiation of these drugs. I use
the word potentiation but that may not be quite
correct. What is bioavailability? Does it mean that the blockage of cytochrome P450 isozyme represses the liver metabolism, and therefore the
stuff is voided, much like lithium's kidney voidance is increased by sodium and potassium?Also, how would you use this cytochrome blockage to the advantage of regulating the benzo dose?
It might take some fine measurement.Squiggles
Posted by sdb on July 8, 2006, at 19:47:08
In reply to Re: Rumination-snapper }} Squiggles » sdb, posted by Squiggles on July 8, 2006, at 19:15:21
>
> > Here is a study but diazepam is not only metabolized by CYP3A4:
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------> >
> > Eur J Drug Metab Pharmacokinet. 1998 Jan-Mar;23(1):55-9. Related Articles, Links
> >
> > Interaction between grapefruit juice and diazepam in humans.
> >
> > Ozdemir M, Aktan Y, Boydag BS, Cingi MI, Musmul A.
> >
> > Department of Pharmacology, Medical Faculty, University of Osmangazi, Eskisehir, Turkey.
> >
> > Grapefruit juice has been reported to markedly improve the bioavailability of triazolam, midazolam, terfenadine, cyclosporine and several dihydropyridine calcium channel blockers including felodipine, nifedipine, nitrendipine and nisoldipine. Because these drugs are metabolized by the hepatic cytochrome P450 isozyme (CYP) 3A4, the inhibitory effect of grapefruit juice is thought to results from inhibition of CYP3A4. In this study, our aim was to investigate the effects of grapefruit juice on plasma concentrations of diazepam. Eight healthy male and female subjects participated in this study. Oral (5 mg) diazepam was administered with either 250 ml water and grapefruit juice. Blood samples were collected for a 24 h period, and whole blood concentrations of diazepam were measured enzyme immunoassay. The mean AUC(0-24) of diazepam was increased 3.2-fold (P < 0.001) and Cmax was increased 1.5-fold (P < 0.05) by the grapefruit juice. Grapefruit juice postponed the tmax of diazepam from 1.50 h to 2.06 h (P < 0.01).
> >
>
> Interesting; drug interactions are interesting in
> general but to know exactly what effect one
> drug has on another, or on an enzyme or hormone
> can be very useful. In this case the inhibition of grapefruit juice (not just grapefruit because
> of quantity i would imagine) can be used for or
> against the potentiation of these drugs. I use
> the word potentiation but that may not be quite
> correct. What is bioavailability? Does it mean that the blockage of cytochrome P450 isozyme represses the liver metabolism, and therefore the
> stuff is voided, much like lithium's kidney voidance is increased by sodium and potassium?
>
> Also, how would you use this cytochrome blockage to the advantage of regulating the benzo dose?
> It might take some fine measurement.
>
> SquigglesBioavailability is a measurement of "how much" from the therapeutically active substances reach
the systemic circulation and later the site of action eg. for diazepam: the brain -> if you take grapefruit juice more active diazepam will reach your brain because of a "modified" first pass in the liver. Substances will spread out in to different compartiments. Diazepam should reach the brain to have the drugs clinical response.If you give something IV the bioavailability is 100%. If you take a drug orally you will not reach
100%, because of poor absorption from the gastrointestinal tract, degradation or metabolism of the drug prior to absorption, hepatic first pass effect, lipid membranes etc.There is more to tell about but bioavailability (AUC = Area under the curve) means the amount of substance that really reaches for example the receptors of brain GABA-CL channels in the case of diazepam, clonazepam.
sdb
Posted by Squiggles on July 8, 2006, at 19:58:01
In reply to Re: AUC, grapefruit }} Squiggles, posted by sdb on July 8, 2006, at 19:47:08
> There is more to tell about but bioavailability (AUC = Area under the curve) means the amount of substance that really reaches for example the receptors of brain GABA-CL channels in the case of diazepam, clonazepam.
>
> sdbThank you. Pharmacology is fascinating. I looked
at the Merck manual but that (with the exception of endocrinology and cardiac chapters) is one of the most complex; maybe because it is so mathematical.Yes, I would imagine that through the vein is the fastest, uninterrupted route to the brain of any drug, as no organ or condition of the body or other drug can interfere in its reaching the brain; unless there is low blood pressure, or some arterial disease or maybe even anemia.
Squiggles
Posted by sdb on July 8, 2006, at 20:00:25
In reply to Re: AUC, grapefruit }} Squiggles, posted by sdb on July 8, 2006, at 19:47:08
>Also, how would you use this cytochrome blockage to >the advantage of regulating the benzo dose?
Take care doing that (if your're an old person, having bad liver, known seizure or respiration problems) but maybe you can have an advantage. It is very, very unlikely to be toxic using a moderate diazepam, clonazepam dosage.
As you can read above you can take less diazepam, clonazepam for the same response and the plasmalevels are more flat. Actually a good thing if you take the drug continuously.
sdb
Posted by sdb on July 12, 2006, at 13:21:24
In reply to Re: AUC, grapefruit II. }} Squiggles, posted by sdb on July 8, 2006, at 20:00:25
I did some experiments and it seems that hypericum is a very effective inducer of cyp3a.
Thats means: If you take only five pills during five days (of maybe 450mg) the clonazepam or valium maybe working as a placebo pill.
I am not entirely sure and will do some more experiments. But take care combining the hypericum with occasional use of some benzodiazepines.
It is very well known that hypericum does influence other drugs but it is not so well known that hypericum does influence other drugs in psychiatry e.g. benzodiazepines.
Take care
sdb
Posted by Squiggles on July 12, 2006, at 13:29:46
In reply to Re: hypericum - St. John's wort INTERACTION, posted by sdb on July 12, 2006, at 13:21:24
I'm really queasy about do-it-yourself
pharmacology - it's not the 60s anymore;If i were very terminally ill and someone offered me a lethal dose of morphine, it may be
a different matter, but something like this--
coming out of the experiment with brain damage
for example, is not my cup of tea.BTW, why do we have to resort to this?
Oh well, i shouldn't be so selfish; i just
heard on the radio today, pleas from some
local hospitals for patients to stay away
from ER if they can. Guess, they expect
modern bricks and mortar to fix that.Tx anyway for the advice - i may pass it
on to more adventurous parties.Squiggles
Posted by sdb on July 12, 2006, at 13:58:57
In reply to Re: hypericum - St. John's wort INTERACTION » sdb, posted by Squiggles on July 12, 2006, at 13:29:46
Dear Squiggles,
Theory often does not match clinical response.
But what I did does absolutely no damage the brain cells, liver cells (furthermore i used tiny dosages). What it can do is changing a successfull treatment. Thats the reason why I warned about an interaction. But until now I am not entirly sure.There are many possibilites to damage your liver and your brain with very, very easy methodes using drugs sold over the counter. Experimenting to investigate pharmacology and possible response is an interesting thing. Maybe that can help, support people. Very early many psychiatrists did the same e.g. Siegmund Freud. Or
even an old friend of mine who was in the group developing the first dirty antidepressant. They eat a huge number of different substances themselfs and looked what the substances did. An empiric, try out method (of course they first used animals to find out toxic dosages).sdb
Posted by Squiggles on July 12, 2006, at 14:06:41
In reply to Re - St. John's wort INTERACTION } Squiggles, posted by sdb on July 12, 2006, at 13:58:57
> Dear Squiggles,
>
> Theory often does not match clinical response.
> But what I did does absolutely no damage the brain cells, liver cells (furthermore i used tiny dosages). What it can do is changing a successfull treatment. Thats the reason why I warned about an interaction. But until now I am not entirly sure.
>
> There are many possibilites to damage your liver and your brain with very, very easy methodes using drugs sold over the counter. Experimenting to investigate pharmacology and possible response is an interesting thing. Maybe that can help, support people. Very early many psychiatrists did the same e.g. Siegmund Freud. Or
> even an old friend of mine who was in the group developing the first dirty antidepressant. They eat a huge number of different substances themselfs and looked what the substances did. An empiric, try out method (of course they first used animals to find out toxic dosages).
>
> sdbI may have missed something in this discussion;
personally, i have no problems with my meds;
i don't believe my gastro problem is related
to my meds - only a medical examination would
results in a true diagnosis. But, I am concerned
about someone who is taking, imho too high
a dose of benzos -- but here your recommendation
would not apply.As for empirical testing on yourself - a small
amount may not do any harm as you say, but there
is another problem; assuming that it does your
doctor or health care team would end up being
with complete legal impunity, and you would
be left holding the bag.Squiggles
Posted by sdb on July 12, 2006, at 14:26:15
In reply to Re: hypericum - St. John's wort INTERACTION » sdb, posted by Squiggles on July 12, 2006, at 14:06:41
> > Dear Squiggles,
> >
> > Theory often does not match clinical response.
> > But what I did does absolutely no damage the brain cells, liver cells (furthermore i used tiny dosages). What it can do is changing a successfull treatment. Thats the reason why I warned about an interaction. But until now I am not entirly sure.
> >
> > There are many possibilites to damage your liver and your brain with very, very easy methodes using drugs sold over the counter. Experimenting to investigate pharmacology and possible response is an interesting thing. Maybe that can help, support people. Very early many psychiatrists did the same e.g. Siegmund Freud. Or
> > even an old friend of mine who was in the group developing the first dirty antidepressant. They eat a huge number of different substances themselfs and looked what the substances did. An empiric, try out method (of course they first used animals to find out toxic dosages).
> >
> > sdb
>
> I may have missed something in this discussion;
> personally, i have no problems with my meds;So you dont have to change things, actually a good thing?
> i don't believe my gastro problem is related
> to my meds - only a medical examination would
> results in a true diagnosis.Maybe doctors will find out.
But, I am concerned
> about someone who is taking, imho too high
> a dose of benzos -- but here your recommendation
> would not apply.Yes, take care using grapefruit juice combined with diazepam, clonazepam. But maybe that could help you. It is not toxic if you first try out in
tiny dosages. But if you have seizures, respiratory problems and a "bad" liver and you want to drive a car during experiments pay attention.> As for empirical testing on yourself - a small
> amount may not do any harm as you say, but there
> is another problem; assuming that it does your
> doctor or health care team would end up being
> with complete legal impunity, and you would
> be left holding the bag.Thanks for giving me recommendations. I once went to a crazy psychiatrist (manic) when I was very young, he gave me a SSRI (during SSRIS hype time) and the treatment harmed me. Now I prescribe myself. Many researches do this if these are antibodies, new synthesize substances and so on.
Diazepam is synthesized in very tiny concentrations in plants. Did you know this? The humanoid has forgotten that nature does not need him, but we need nature. We are only a small part of the extremly complicated, wonderful and powerful nature.Kind regards
sdb
> Squiggles
Posted by sdb on July 12, 2006, at 15:08:37
In reply to Re: substance experiments, posted by sdb on July 12, 2006, at 14:26:15
Dear Squiggles,
If your treatment controlled by doctors works for you there is no need to change something. I only wanted to share knowledge for self-help, support. If somebody can benefit it is ok.
Unfortunately through internet communication it can be very difficult to predict somebody giving recommendations. There are too many parameters open.
sdb
Posted by Squiggles on July 12, 2006, at 15:15:33
In reply to Re: substance experiments }} Squiggles, posted by sdb on July 12, 2006, at 15:08:37
> Dear Squiggles,
>
> If your treatment controlled by doctors works for you there is no need to change something. I only wanted to share knowledge for self-help, support. If somebody can benefit it is ok.I think if you have found something that helps,
for example -- a herb that is not contraindicated
with a drug -- and it does something magical
as you describe, that's great; it may be wise
to check it with your doctor for a number of
reasons. For example, I asked if i could take
a fibre supplement for my gastro problem and
my dr. said OK - that made me feel much better;
unfortunately, i also noticed that it lowers the
lithium through subjective signs and what i
have read. You can't have a constant picture in this chemical kaleidoscope. 100% absolute
prediction would be the ideal, of course.
>
> Unfortunately through internet communication it can be very difficult to predict somebody giving recommendations. There are too many parameters open.I am not sure what you mean by the above.
Squiggles
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