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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by pulse on June 15, 2006, at 3:21:23
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 36 » Declan, posted by Jakeman on June 14, 2006, at 23:54:25
> I went to see the Dalai Lama when he was in town a few months ago. He told a story about being very irritated when he was trying to sleep in his hotel room and they was music blaring from a dance club across the street.
LOL. this gives me GREAT hope!
Posted by Donna Louise on June 15, 2006, at 7:18:42
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 36 » Donna Louise, posted by Jakeman on June 14, 2006, at 20:58:28
> > >
> > >
> >
> > This is a great idea.
> > After pdoc appt today:
> >
> > starting lamictal 25mg day one
> > klonopin .25mg 2-3x's a day
> > provigil 200-400 daily, depending. usually 300mg
> > EMSAM 4 weeks 6mg, 2 1/2 weeks 9mg
> >
> > To Declan, I wonder how one would treat a symptom cluster as that is a good bet that is what we have hear. There are plenty of symptoms clustering about.
> >
> > donna
>
> Donna, That may be a good combination and I hope it works for you. Has sleep been a problem on Emsam? Maybe not if you fall asleep meditating.
>
> warm regards, JakeNo problems sleeping. Only massive amounts of desoxyn back in the day kept me awake all night...However, I am taking .25mg klonopin before bed. Maybe that is why, but I can take naps midday too if I want. It is just that with the EMSAM the nap is a choice. I have always been a good sleeper. So the pdoc thinks I can't be bipolar because of that and all this irritablity and anxiety and obsessivenes and rumination is just my anxiety disorder. Just..hah.
Donna
Posted by Donna Louise on June 15, 2006, at 7:27:06
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 36 » Declan, posted by Jakeman on June 14, 2006, at 23:54:25
> > I am afraid of my anger too, but I stop being frightened of someone when I am openly angry with them. It's when I am covertly angry but unable to express it that I get frightened, maybe. (Perfect fear driveth out love, of course, just thought I'd throw that in.)
> > Declan
>
> I went to see the Dalai Lama when he was in town a few months ago. He told a story about being very irritated when he was trying to sleep in his hotel room and they was music blaring from a dance club across the street.
>
> ~JakeWell, that is one to remember. If it is ok for him, it is ok for me...
I know and am comfortable with the so called negative emotions. I have been doing recovery work for over 20 years, and still have a ton of it to do. It is the excessive, pathological, inappropriate emotions that are a problem for me.
The anger, the appropriate, protective anger can still scare me, it is a lifelong thing, but I know it is my friend. And one of the big problems with sri's is that it robbed me of my feelings. I have spent too much time making friends with them and learning to appreciate them to walk around numbed out. There is ecstasy, if only for a moment, on the flip side.Donna
Posted by Jakeman on June 15, 2006, at 19:10:27
In reply to Re: On the Anger Front » Jakeman, posted by pulse on June 15, 2006, at 3:19:18
> > Interesting point. I'm trying to unlearn my belief that negative emotions are the enemy.
>
> boy, do i ever hear you on this one. i'm working on this now, but have known it's been something i've needed to unlearn for far too long. i've made some progress, finally, but, those old tapes still have a way of coming back too often.
>
> you're lucky to be younger, with many more years to work on this. i trust you'll keep at it. it may well be our most important issue.
>
> best,
> pulse
>I'm not so young. Late forties. In fact, some of my present anxiety seems to stem from my thinking that I am running out of time. I need to make peace with that somehow. Or maybe my anxiety (really just a type of energy) is telling me that I need to do something differently.
warm regards, Jake
Posted by Jakeman on June 15, 2006, at 19:16:26
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 36 » Jakeman, posted by Donna Louise on June 15, 2006, at 7:18:42
>>
> No problems sleeping. Only massive amounts of desoxyn back in the day kept me awake all night...However, I am taking .25mg klonopin before bed. Maybe that is why, but I can take naps midday too if I want. It is just that with the EMSAM the nap is a choice. I have always been a good sleeper. So the pdoc thinks I can't be bipolar because of that and all this irritablity and anxiety and obsessivenes and rumination is just my anxiety disorder. Just..hah.
>
> Donna
>I'm glad to hear that there is someone that is able to sleep ok on Emsam! .25 of klonipin is a very small dose.
Jake
Posted by Jakeman on June 15, 2006, at 19:21:11
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 36 » Jakeman, posted by Donna Louise on June 15, 2006, at 7:27:06
> > > I am afraid of my anger too, but I stop being frightened of someone when I am openly angry with them. It's when I am covertly angry but unable to express it that I get frightened, maybe. (Perfect fear driveth out love, of course, just thought I'd throw that in.)
> > > Declan
> >
> > I went to see the Dalai Lama when he was in town a few months ago. He told a story about being very irritated when he was trying to sleep in his hotel room and they was music blaring from a dance club across the street.
> >
> > ~Jake
>
> Well, that is one to remember. If it is ok for him, it is ok for me...
> I know and am comfortable with the so called negative emotions. I have been doing recovery work for over 20 years, and still have a ton of it to do. It is the excessive, pathological, inappropriate emotions that are a problem for me.
> The anger, the appropriate, protective anger can still scare me, it is a lifelong thing, but I know it is my friend. And one of the big problems with sri's is that it robbed me of my feelings. I have spent too much time making friends with them and learning to appreciate them to walk around numbed out. There is ecstasy, if only for a moment, on the flip side.
>
> Donna
>I had the same problem with ssri's. I liked my feelings taken away... for a while. But eventually it seemed that I lost some of my humanness. If that makes sense.
Jake
Posted by cecilia on June 15, 2006, at 21:20:30
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 36 » ZeitGuest, posted by Donna Louise on June 14, 2006, at 20:06:57
Well, I took off my quarter patch yesterday and finally decided, ok this is it, I just can't put another one on. I can deal with the insomnia, I've had insomnia since I was in elementary school. But the eye pain just kept kept worse and worse. This stuff is poison, unlike some meds where side effects improve with time, all the MAO's for me seem to get worse and worse side effects with time-they just build up in your system. The 1st 2 weeks on Emsam there were really no side effects at all, insomnia and anxiety of course, but I always have that, I couldn't really tell if it was significantly worse, then gradually it was obvious it was significantly worse, then the dry eyes started , my eye doctor told me to use artificial tears eye drops and that seemed to help at 1st, but soon it wasn't just dry eyes, it was PAIN, and who knows what would be coming next. So another failure, and there's nothing else left to try. Well, I know what my pdoc will say, what he always does, there's always ECT. Yeah, doc, it's not you that'll lose your memory. I HATE DOCTORS!!!!!!!!!!! Cecilia
Posted by Declan on June 16, 2006, at 0:43:06
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up, posted by cecilia on June 15, 2006, at 21:20:30
Hey Cecilia
ADs haven't worked for you.
Opiates are almost impossible to get.
Tolerance with them is pretty well total, addiction etc, but even so........they will work, IMO.
Better than ADs.
What do you think?
Declan
Posted by cecilia on June 16, 2006, at 2:16:49
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up » cecilia, posted by Declan on June 16, 2006, at 0:43:06
I don't think opiates would do anything for my depression-when I've had them after surgery I never noticed anything remotely beneficial for my mood-certainly no desire to continue taking them. Cecilia
Posted by Declan on June 16, 2006, at 2:53:27
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up- Declan, posted by cecilia on June 16, 2006, at 2:16:49
Really? Well that's food for thought. I was thinking along the lines of something comforting, in the way those drugs have affected me. Words like depression, euphoria, dysphoria, social phobia etc etc don't tell us much. At least a word like 'dread' , for example, has a clear meaning.
Declan
Posted by pulse on June 16, 2006, at 3:34:54
In reply to Re: On the Anger Front » pulse, posted by Jakeman on June 15, 2006, at 19:10:27
oops, sorry Jake re: 'young.' i had you confused with another.
yes, you are right. at the age you are now, i, too, had this start up - anxiety that time is running out, and over so many things. your mentioning this is a strange comfort to me. sorry that (my) misery loves company!
wouldn't it be nice if we could just have/ have had that 'normal' folks mid-life crisising? i suppose it's that, too, but with mental health issues on top of it, it can surely be tough!
when you do hit 50, know that you can then do or say anything you've ever wanted to, but haven't < pulse's credo #1.
making peace, for me, though, is still a work in progress.
as i said above, i'm 54, and as i've said before, a friend told me that 55 was harder than 50. just thought i'd give you even more 'hope.' *wink.*
on a positive note: sounds like you DO have a good jump started on the anger front...and on these 'negative' emotions.
all my best,
pulse
Posted by cecilia on June 16, 2006, at 4:41:53
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up- Declan » cecilia, posted by Declan on June 16, 2006, at 2:53:27
I think it's a genetic thing, some people find that opiates make them feel good and risk addiction if they try them, others find them beneficial only for physical pain. Of course everyone would get physically dependent if they took them long enough, but those who risk addiction to unprescribed substances or would find them beneficial for depression in the unlikely event that they found a doctor who would prescribe them for that purpose are those who have a gene that responds to that substance. Probably the same with alcohol, I don't think people become alcoholics, no matter how many "issues" they have, unless they also have the gene for it. Cecilia
Posted by Donna Louise on June 16, 2006, at 6:04:29
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 36 » Donna Louise, posted by Jakeman on June 15, 2006, at 19:21:11
> > > > I am afraid of my anger too, but I stop being frightened of someone when I am openly angry with them. It's when I am covertly angry but unable to express it that I get frightened, maybe. (Perfect fear driveth out love, of course, just thought I'd throw that in.)
> > > > Declan
> > >
> > > I went to see the Dalai Lama when he was in town a few months ago. He told a story about being very irritated when he was trying to sleep in his hotel room and they was music blaring from a dance club across the street.
> > >
> > > ~Jake
> >
> > Well, that is one to remember. If it is ok for him, it is ok for me...
> > I know and am comfortable with the so called negative emotions. I have been doing recovery work for over 20 years, and still have a ton of it to do. It is the excessive, pathological, inappropriate emotions that are a problem for me.
> > The anger, the appropriate, protective anger can still scare me, it is a lifelong thing, but I know it is my friend. And one of the big problems with sri's is that it robbed me of my feelings. I have spent too much time making friends with them and learning to appreciate them to walk around numbed out. There is ecstasy, if only for a moment, on the flip side.
> >
> > Donna
> >
>
> I had the same problem with ssri's. I liked my feelings taken away... for a while. But eventually it seemed that I lost some of my humanness. If that makes sense.
>
> Jake
>
>I know exactly what you mean. At first it was a relief to be rid of the oppressive feelings but then I too felt I lost compassion and zest. Humanness, spirituallness, yes, they felt gone and I won't go there again. uhmm, unless it gets really really bad....oh, I hope I don't have to go there again..
I don't know if it is possible, but I feel better already after only two days on 25mg lamictal..Oh please, let it be so!!donna
Posted by Donna Louise on June 16, 2006, at 6:09:50
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up, posted by cecilia on June 15, 2006, at 21:20:30
> Well, I took off my quarter patch yesterday and finally decided, ok this is it, I just can't put another one on. I can deal with the insomnia, I've had insomnia since I was in elementary school. But the eye pain just kept kept worse and worse. This stuff is poison, unlike some meds where side effects improve with time, all the MAO's for me seem to get worse and worse side effects with time-they just build up in your system. The 1st 2 weeks on Emsam there were really no side effects at all, insomnia and anxiety of course, but I always have that, I couldn't really tell if it was significantly worse, then gradually it was obvious it was significantly worse, then the dry eyes started , my eye doctor told me to use artificial tears eye drops and that seemed to help at 1st, but soon it wasn't just dry eyes, it was PAIN, and who knows what would be coming next. So another failure, and there's nothing else left to try. Well, I know what my pdoc will say, what he always does, there's always ECT. Yeah, doc, it's not you that'll lose your memory. I HATE DOCTORS!!!!!!!!!!! Cecilia
Oh, I am so sorry this failed for you! I would be devastated. I have so much hope pinned on this one. I don't know where I would turn to next either. My pdoc, who is very enlightened and willing to try things is not going to give me bupe unless I have tried all else. I have tried what seems almost everything else. If this wasn't working for me, I think she might. It is so hard to get one to do that. And like you say, it may do nothing for you. I do have the gene for alcoholism, and narcotics make me feel great.
My right eye is always dry, it may be a little drier on the patch, I put drops in in the morning and then i am ok but i would not be able to tolerate eye pain for a moment.
There has to be something for you. Keep us updated.donna
Posted by Jakeman on June 16, 2006, at 19:20:23
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 36 » Jakeman, posted by Donna Louise on June 16, 2006, at 6:04:29
>
> I know exactly what you mean. At first it was a relief to be rid of the oppressive feelings but then I too felt I lost compassion and zest. Humanness, spirituallness, yes, they felt gone and I won't go there again. uhmm, unless it gets really really bad....oh, I hope I don't have to go there again..
> I don't know if it is possible, but I feel better already after only two days on 25mg lamictal..Oh please, let it be so!!
>
> donnaMy new p-doc is really big on lamictal and says that it has helped a lot of her patients. It's an option I'm considering when I go back next month. If your haven't already, read the remedyfind.com reports on Lamictal.
Warm regards, Steve
Posted by cecilia on June 16, 2006, at 20:28:14
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up » cecilia, posted by Donna Louise on June 16, 2006, at 6:09:50
Unfortunately, there really isn't anything else I can think of to try. I've tried desipramine, imipramine, trazodone, amitriptyline, Prozac, Nardil, Zoloft, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Serzone, Buspar, St. John's Wort, Remeron, lithium, nortriptyline, celexa, neurontin, SAM-e, methylphenidate, dexedrine, zyprexa, parnate, Xanax, clonazepam, amisulpride, reboxetine, luvox, adrafinil, Lamictal, rTMS, moclobemide, tianeptine, cymbalta, 5-HTP, milnacipran, marplan and Emsam. Not to mention 7 very expensive very useless years of therapy. The only thing that's ever been even slightly beneficial are benzos. I can't imagine what all those chemicals have done to my brain, not to mention what the hammer pounding pain of rTMS may have done. I am NOT willing to try ECT. I want to keep whatever's left of my brain. Emsam was the last straw, other than benzos and sleeping pills I've had it for psychotropic meds. Anyone know the FDA address for reporting adverse side effects, I want to get the Emsam eye pain in their records. Maybe I should get a few hundred forms and fill one out for every lousy side effect I"ve ever had. Cecilia
Posted by cecilia on June 16, 2006, at 20:58:59
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up-Donna Louise, posted by cecilia on June 16, 2006, at 20:28:14
I called Bristol-Myers Squibb to ask how long this stuff is going to stay in my system. I think they said the half-life was a little over 24 hours, though I could be confused because of no sleep. It's been 48 hours. I think-I hope- the eye pain is getting a little better. I shouldn't have been surprised because I had the same thing, along with other extremely unpleasant effects on day 38 of Nardil (14 years ago, but things like that tend to stay in your memory). Cecilia
Posted by Phillipa on June 16, 2006, at 21:28:16
In reply to Re: Emsan Eye Pain, posted by cecilia on June 16, 2006, at 20:58:59
Cecelia did you try oral segilgine? Any chance that world work? Love Phillipa
Posted by cecilia on June 16, 2006, at 22:04:23
In reply to Re: Emsan Eye Pain » cecilia, posted by Phillipa on June 16, 2006, at 21:28:16
Believe me, I'm not touching selegiline again with a 10 foot pole. Cecilia
Posted by Donna Louise on June 17, 2006, at 5:53:13
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up-Donna Louise, posted by cecilia on June 16, 2006, at 20:28:14
> Unfortunately, there really isn't anything else I can think of to try. I've tried desipramine, imipramine, trazodone, amitriptyline, Prozac, Nardil, Zoloft, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Serzone, Buspar, St. John's Wort, Remeron, lithium, nortriptyline, celexa, neurontin, SAM-e, methylphenidate, dexedrine, zyprexa, parnate, Xanax, clonazepam, amisulpride, reboxetine, luvox, adrafinil, Lamictal, rTMS, moclobemide, tianeptine, cymbalta, 5-HTP, milnacipran, marplan and Emsam. Not to mention 7 very expensive very useless years of therapy. The only thing that's ever been even slightly beneficial are benzos. I can't imagine what all those chemicals have done to my brain, not to mention what the hammer pounding pain of rTMS may have done. I am NOT willing to try ECT. I want to keep whatever's left of my brain. Emsam was the last straw, other than benzos and sleeping pills I've had it for psychotropic meds. Anyone know the FDA address for reporting adverse side effects, I want to get the Emsam eye pain in their records. Maybe I should get a few hundred forms and fill one out for every lousy side effect I"ve ever had. Cecilia
Wow, what a list. How terrible frustrating and hopeless this must make you feel. When depressed, I feel hopeless without having a reason...Did I see bupenorphine in the list? I just rescanned it, no it isn't there. Maybe that would give some relief. And are you on a benzo now? I really like the klonopin. Maybe you would get at least a tad bit of relief there.
Someone just posted the FDA website for reporting adverse sife effects. I don't remember what thread it was but it was just recently. The patch is so new and it won't be prescribed by many so the chances of others getting eye pain and reporting are no doubt exceedingly small. I wish I could remember that thread.donna
Posted by Donna Louise on June 17, 2006, at 5:56:40
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 36 » Donna Louise, posted by Jakeman on June 16, 2006, at 19:20:23
> >
> > I know exactly what you mean. At first it was a relief to be rid of the oppressive feelings but then I too felt I lost compassion and zest. Humanness, spirituallness, yes, they felt gone and I won't go there again. uhmm, unless it gets really really bad....oh, I hope I don't have to go there again..
> > I don't know if it is possible, but I feel better already after only two days on 25mg lamictal..Oh please, let it be so!!
> >
> > donna
>
> My new p-doc is really big on lamictal and says that it has helped a lot of her patients. It's an option I'm considering when I go back next month. If your haven't already, read the remedyfind.com reports on Lamictal.
>
> Warm regards, Steve
>
>Actually I haven't read on the remedyfind about Lamictal. I will do so now. I am still feeling so much better with this timy dose. I had tried L in the past with a different drug combo and was at 100 twice a day briefly. It seemed to be doing nothing. Maybe for me 25mg maybe twice a day will be it with the current cocktail. It is amazing so far.
donna
Posted by cecilia on June 17, 2006, at 6:53:55
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up-Donna Louise » cecilia, posted by Donna Louise on June 17, 2006, at 5:53:13
I do take clonazepam, but frankly, I'm not really convinced it does anything at all, I think my body's just used to it. I can't see any reason for bupenorphine, I have no history of substance abuse, which is the only reason I imagine my HMO would prescribe it, and like I mentioned to Declan, when I've taken pain medications following surgery or injuries I never noticed any psychological benefit from them. When I had a hysterectomy I kept pushing the PCA button to give me morphine because I couldn't sleep and thought it would make me sleepy, but it never did, except while under anesthesia I didn't sleep one minute the 48 hours I was in the hospital, all it did was make me itch. Cecilia
Posted by bulldog2 on June 18, 2006, at 12:43:34
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up-Donna Louise, posted by cecilia on June 17, 2006, at 6:53:55
I had to give up on emsam also because of eye pain. It was particulary bad at night when I was watching TV. I felt like I wanted to put patches over each eye. I also had eye pain and headaches on lamictal. Lamictal actually accumulates in the skin and that includes the eyes. That's probably why some get the blister effect especially when exposed to the sun.
Posted by cecilia on June 18, 2006, at 19:07:57
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up-Donna Louise, posted by bulldog2 on June 18, 2006, at 12:43:34
My eyes still hurt and I've been off this stuff for 3 days. The studies say dry eyes and eye pain were "infrequent". I don't remember any eye pain on Lamictal, thought it had plenty of other side effects. The only other drug I remember that caused actual eye pain was Nardil (excruciating sudden pain on day 38) though the tricyclics and Remeron caused blurry vision and Cymbalta and Milnacipran caused hugely dilated pupils. Cecilia
Posted by SLS on June 18, 2006, at 19:34:25
In reply to Re: Emsam-Eye Pain-Bulldog, posted by cecilia on June 18, 2006, at 19:07:57
> Cymbalta and Milnacipran caused hugely dilated pupils. Cecilia
Hi Cecilia.
Where did you get the milnacipran from?
- Scott
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