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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 70 to 94 of 94. Go back in thread:
Posted by Donna Louise on June 17, 2006, at 5:56:40
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 36 » Donna Louise, posted by Jakeman on June 16, 2006, at 19:20:23
> >
> > I know exactly what you mean. At first it was a relief to be rid of the oppressive feelings but then I too felt I lost compassion and zest. Humanness, spirituallness, yes, they felt gone and I won't go there again. uhmm, unless it gets really really bad....oh, I hope I don't have to go there again..
> > I don't know if it is possible, but I feel better already after only two days on 25mg lamictal..Oh please, let it be so!!
> >
> > donna
>
> My new p-doc is really big on lamictal and says that it has helped a lot of her patients. It's an option I'm considering when I go back next month. If your haven't already, read the remedyfind.com reports on Lamictal.
>
> Warm regards, Steve
>
>Actually I haven't read on the remedyfind about Lamictal. I will do so now. I am still feeling so much better with this timy dose. I had tried L in the past with a different drug combo and was at 100 twice a day briefly. It seemed to be doing nothing. Maybe for me 25mg maybe twice a day will be it with the current cocktail. It is amazing so far.
donna
Posted by cecilia on June 17, 2006, at 6:53:55
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up-Donna Louise » cecilia, posted by Donna Louise on June 17, 2006, at 5:53:13
I do take clonazepam, but frankly, I'm not really convinced it does anything at all, I think my body's just used to it. I can't see any reason for bupenorphine, I have no history of substance abuse, which is the only reason I imagine my HMO would prescribe it, and like I mentioned to Declan, when I've taken pain medications following surgery or injuries I never noticed any psychological benefit from them. When I had a hysterectomy I kept pushing the PCA button to give me morphine because I couldn't sleep and thought it would make me sleepy, but it never did, except while under anesthesia I didn't sleep one minute the 48 hours I was in the hospital, all it did was make me itch. Cecilia
Posted by bulldog2 on June 18, 2006, at 12:43:34
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up-Donna Louise, posted by cecilia on June 17, 2006, at 6:53:55
I had to give up on emsam also because of eye pain. It was particulary bad at night when I was watching TV. I felt like I wanted to put patches over each eye. I also had eye pain and headaches on lamictal. Lamictal actually accumulates in the skin and that includes the eyes. That's probably why some get the blister effect especially when exposed to the sun.
Posted by cecilia on June 18, 2006, at 19:07:57
In reply to Re: Emsan-Day 37-gave up-Donna Louise, posted by bulldog2 on June 18, 2006, at 12:43:34
My eyes still hurt and I've been off this stuff for 3 days. The studies say dry eyes and eye pain were "infrequent". I don't remember any eye pain on Lamictal, thought it had plenty of other side effects. The only other drug I remember that caused actual eye pain was Nardil (excruciating sudden pain on day 38) though the tricyclics and Remeron caused blurry vision and Cymbalta and Milnacipran caused hugely dilated pupils. Cecilia
Posted by SLS on June 18, 2006, at 19:34:25
In reply to Re: Emsam-Eye Pain-Bulldog, posted by cecilia on June 18, 2006, at 19:07:57
> Cymbalta and Milnacipran caused hugely dilated pupils. Cecilia
Hi Cecilia.
Where did you get the milnacipran from?
- Scott
Posted by cecilia on June 18, 2006, at 20:33:15
In reply to Re: Emsam-Eye Pain-Bulldog » cecilia, posted by SLS on June 18, 2006, at 19:34:25
I got the milnacipran from one of those overseas sites that Dr. Bob doesn't want us to name. Since I couldn't tolerate even the lowest dose of Cymbalta I wanted to see if Milnacipran would be any different. Side effects were pretty much the same-dilated pupils, sweating, hot flashes, not as bad as Cymbalta, but no benefit from either. (Years ago, I would never have dreamed of ordering a med from overseas, but Psychobabble corrupted me, a very long time ago, before it was against the rules, there was a poster, you probably remember him, John something, who kept touting the benefits of various overseas meds. I remember I first tried the much discussed at the time Reboxetine as a result. You never read a word about that stuff now, amazing how interest comes and goes. I think, though, that unless some miracle appears on the market tomorrow, Emsam is, except for benzos and sleeping meds, my last psychotropic med. I give up. I can't take any more weird and horrible side effects. Cecilia
Posted by SLS on June 19, 2006, at 8:03:39
In reply to Re: Milnacipran-SLS, posted by cecilia on June 18, 2006, at 20:33:15
> I think, though, that unless some miracle appears on the market tomorrow, Emsam is, except for benzos and sleeping meds, my last psychotropic med. I give up. I can't take any more weird and horrible side effects.
Hi Cecilia.
Thanks for the info.
I wish I had the magic potion for you.
:-(
I feel as if I've just about reached the end of the line too.
I won't give you a pep talk, but maybe you will have the motivation sometime in the future to try different things as they become available.
I don't know how far it will go, but milnacipran (Ixel) is in clinical trials in the US for fibromyalgia.
Please take care of yourself.
- Scott
Posted by cecilia on June 19, 2006, at 9:34:15
In reply to Re: Milnacipran-SLS » cecilia, posted by SLS on June 19, 2006, at 8:03:39
Yes, a lot of people in the U.S. are obtaining Milnacipran from overseas for fibromyalagia. I don't have fibromyalgia, but it did nothing for depression. Big surprise, for me, nothing ever has. Cecilia
Posted by cecilia on June 19, 2006, at 9:53:56
In reply to Re: Milnacipran-SLS, posted by cecilia on June 19, 2006, at 9:34:15
WHEN will this poison leave my system? I still can't sleep, my eyes still hurt A LOT, I have a headache, I'm a nervous wreck, I want it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I really think it may have something to do with being fat, probably I had no side effects the 1st 2 weeks because the stuff was just sitting on the top of my skin, then as it gradually worked its way down into my blood vessels, the side effects began. I was having slowly gradually worsening side effects for about 3 weeks before I quit, so it might take about 3 weeks before it finally works its way out. Or it could be there forever. I hate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!Cecilia
Posted by ed_uk on June 19, 2006, at 13:03:28
In reply to Re: I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM, posted by cecilia on June 19, 2006, at 9:53:56
Hi Cecilia
>WHEN will this poison leave my system?
Selegiline (Emsam) is an irreversible monoamine oxidase inhibitor ie. the effects of the drug will persist until new MAO enzymes are synthesized to replace the MAO enzymes which have been permanently inactivated by selegiline. New MAO enzymes are continually being made by the body........but it can take up to 2 weeks after stopping an irreversible MAOI before MAO levels get back to normal. The side effects WILL disappear, but you will probably have to stick it out for a few more days :(
Regards
Ed
Posted by cecilia on June 19, 2006, at 17:54:20
In reply to Re: I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM » cecilia, posted by ed_uk on June 19, 2006, at 13:03:28
I know, but when I got the eye pain and headache and joint and muscle pain on day 38 of Nardil, which is also an irreversible MAO, it was gone within 48 hours after quitting, long before the sneaky little MAO inhibitors, whatever the heck they are, had had time to regenerate themselves). Cecilia
Posted by cecilia on June 19, 2006, at 17:59:08
In reply to Re: I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM- Ed_UK, posted by cecilia on June 19, 2006, at 17:54:20
Well, I guess it's not the inhibitors that regenerate, but the enzymes, whatever, I wish they'd get on with it! Cecilia
Posted by Cairo on June 19, 2006, at 19:05:43
In reply to Re: Milnacipran-SLS, posted by cecilia on June 19, 2006, at 9:34:15
If Cymbalta didn't do much for you, why did you try Milnacipran? They seem pretty much the same except for the addition of dextromethorphan, which might be useful for pain. I had the chance to enroll in a study with Milnacipran, but decided to forgo it because Cymbalta didn't do much for me at doses I could tolerate. I'd rather take the components (SSRI, NRI, DM) separately to titrate dosing of each and use only the medication that I needed. Since SSRIs and I don't mix, I'm going to try Strattera soon and may give DM a shot for pain.
Cairo
> Yes, a lot of people in the U.S. are obtaining Milnacipran from overseas for fibromyalagia. I don't have fibromyalgia, but it did nothing for depression. Big surprise, for me, nothing ever has. Cecilia
Posted by ed_uk on June 20, 2006, at 16:16:53
In reply to Re: I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM- Ed_UK, posted by cecilia on June 19, 2006, at 17:59:08
Hi Cecilia
Everytime you feel awful, just think of those nice little MAO enzymes being regenerated. Your MAO levels are on their way UP again :)
Ed
Posted by cecilia on June 21, 2006, at 2:16:46
In reply to Re: I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM- Ed_UK » cecilia, posted by ed_uk on June 20, 2006, at 16:16:53
I suppose so. But it's not like getting my MAO enzymes behaving properly again is going to get me undepressed. The only beneficial thing any AD has ever done for me is give me brief moments of relief that the stuff is out of my system. Being depressed without horrible side effects is certainly better than being depressed with horrible side effects, but I wish there were a 3rd choice. Cecilia
Posted by ed_uk on June 21, 2006, at 14:25:05
In reply to Re: I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM- Ed_UK, posted by cecilia on June 21, 2006, at 2:16:46
>I wish there were a 3rd choice...
Me too C, me too.
Ed
Posted by Declan on June 22, 2006, at 2:26:19
In reply to Re: I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM- Ed_UK, posted by cecilia on June 21, 2006, at 2:16:46
Don't wanna annoy you, but what does 'depression' mean to you, Cecilia? Dunno what the word means. Heartbreak, disappointment, dread, terror, horror, fear, hatred, alienation etc all have clear meanings I understand. Couldn't even understand my diagnoses, which were 'lacking a sense of identity' (which made my father snort) and 'deprivation'(if that's a diagnosis). Maybe I did too much therapy. One of my problems was never being able to leave a room, so I never left therapy either, until I was told to.
As I recall, in marxism there is the word 'reification', which means turning a process into a thing....like a diagnosis for (say) depression.
Any advances in treatment will come from an understanding of our individual biochemistries, rather than better drugs, which are not likely from bigpharma, IMO(of course).
Declan
Posted by Declan on June 22, 2006, at 12:16:06
In reply to Re: I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM- Ed_UK » cecilia, posted by Declan on June 22, 2006, at 2:26:19
They were all emotions, which might not be appropriate. I might pick 'unhappy, trapped, lonely, and somewhat desperate', whereas anyone else might pick 'I can't get up'. Someone else again might be sick. Just trying to get a picture. When people come here talking about their thing I guess you can't really understand what they are talking about until you get to know them better.
Declan
Posted by cecilia on June 24, 2006, at 19:38:11
In reply to Re: I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM- Ed_UK, posted by Declan on June 22, 2006, at 12:16:06
What does depression mean? I don't know what it doesn't mean. I can't comprehend when people talk about "remission" or feeling good or wanting to get up in the morning. I've never experienced anything like that. I can't even imagine it. There's only bad, worse, and worst. Emptiness. Loneliness. Fear. Self-hatred. Until I was 40 I just thought I was a defective person and there was nothing to be done. Then I started the therapy and meds go-round. I've failed every med there is, and after 632 therapy sessions my therapist told me "I can't help you, you obviously need to be depressed." So I'm back where I started, after all those horrible side effects, all the humiliation of those outrageously priced therapy sessions, I guess the reality is that I'm just a defective person. Cecilia
Posted by cecilia on June 24, 2006, at 20:10:21
In reply to Re: Emsam-Eye Pain-Bulldog, posted by cecilia on June 18, 2006, at 19:07:57
Bulldog, how long did your eye pain last after you stopped Emsam? I intend to write an adverse drug report to the FDA and I hope you do too. I thought it was getting a little better and then yesterday it seemed worse again and I literally spent the entire afternoon (1230 to 6) by the phone, 1st trying to get through to the opth. consulting nurse at my HMO, then waiting for a call from His Royal Highness the eye doctor himself, finally at 6pm I gave up and left, when I got back there was an absurd message from his assistant saying they were sorry the eye dryness was still a problem, they made it sound like nothing, I had told them it wasn't just dryness, it was PAIN, anyway she suggested a different eye drop to use, and said if that didn't help I could have surgery on my tear ducts!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No thanks. It is feeling somewhat better today, knock on wood and and I was able to get an opthalmologist at the Urgent Clinic to examine my eyes, he prescribed an expensive ointment and said he couldn't see any eye damage, my big fear, anxiety definitely makes pain worse. Anyway, hope your eyes are doing ok. Cecilia
Posted by cecilia on June 24, 2006, at 20:25:52
In reply to Re: Emsam-Eye Pain-Bulldog, posted by cecilia on June 24, 2006, at 20:10:21
My fury is intensified even more by the other thing the idiot eye doctor said, according to his assistant, I never did get through to His Royal Highness in person. Apparently he said I shouldn't go off the Emsam (I had already told them I went off it a week ago) because he didn't think it should cause any eye problems. Eye dryness and pain are documented in the Emsam manufacturer's info, for crying out loud!!!!!!!!! Cecilia
Posted by Declan on June 25, 2006, at 0:47:23
In reply to Re: I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM- Declan, posted by cecilia on June 24, 2006, at 19:38:11
Cecilia, thanks for that
with feeling
Declan
Posted by Donna Louise on June 25, 2006, at 5:45:40
In reply to Re: I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM- Declan, posted by cecilia on June 24, 2006, at 19:38:11
> What does depression mean? I don't know what it doesn't mean. I can't comprehend when people talk about "remission" or feeling good or wanting to get up in the morning. I've never experienced anything like that. I can't even imagine it. There's only bad, worse, and worst. Emptiness. Loneliness. Fear. Self-hatred. Until I was 40 I just thought I was a defective person and there was nothing to be done. Then I started the therapy and meds go-round. I've failed every med there is, and after 632 therapy sessions my therapist told me "I can't help you, you obviously need to be depressed." So I'm back where I started, after all those horrible side effects, all the humiliation of those outrageously priced therapy sessions, I guess the reality is that I'm just a defective person. Cecilia
How horrible that a therapist, or anyone for that matter, but especially a therapist who should know better would say you obviously need to be depressed. More obviously she needs to be in another profession. Can't admit failure to help on her part.
I don't know you , but I know you aren't a defective person. There is no such thing. I have often thought of myself that way in the past. But I am who I am and that is more than good enough. So stop buying into that c---. Can I say that word, c---?donna
Posted by Declan on June 25, 2006, at 12:57:37
In reply to Re: I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM I HATE EMSAM- Declan, posted by cecilia on June 24, 2006, at 19:38:11
"What a strange thing!"said the overseer of the workmen at the foundry. "This broken lead heart will not melt in the furnace. We must throw it away." So they threw it on a dust-heap where the dead swallow was also lying.
"Bring me the two most precious things in the city," said God to one of his Angels; and the Angel brought Him the leaden heart and the dead bird.
(The Happy Prince)Suffering involves important questions of values. I wish I knew how to make myself clearer.
Declan
Posted by cecilia on June 25, 2006, at 18:17:42
In reply to I woke up thinking of this » cecilia, posted by Declan on June 25, 2006, at 12:57:37
I guess if someone can convince themselves that there's value and meaning to their suffering, more power to them. To me it's all just random bad luck. And if it's not, if I discover after I'm dead that I'm going to be punished even more for not believing there was meaning to my suffering, well I guess that's what will happen, I'd rather believe in random bad luck than a sadistic punishing supreme being. Cecilia
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