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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by crabwalk on May 25, 2006, at 22:45:37
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Ba » RobertDavid, posted by Caedmon on May 25, 2006, at 21:51:23
I've pretty much cut caffeine out of my life because of insomnia and anxiety, which is a shame cause I used to love caffeinated drinks, and I still love the taste of coffee. When I was on prozac, I could drink coffee no problem, caused no anxiety (insomnia though). Also, I used to smoke a fair amount of pot in college about a year ago, and on prozac there was never any bad anxiety. It was a lot of fun to smoke without worrying about getting anxious. Now I can't really do it anymore, which also sucks. I think these two, caffeine and pot, are the best drugs to have regularly in your life (if you choose to have drugs at all).
Posted by yxibow on May 26, 2006, at 0:15:10
In reply to People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Bad?, posted by nicky847 on May 25, 2006, at 15:19:58
With my complex anxiety disorder coffee is a definate nono with more than about one cup a day. My somatiform visual symptoms increase and the brightness problems become worse with caffeine. I suppose the same could be said about chocolate (theobromine which is weaker), but I try not to have too much of that just for the sheer calories anyhow.
In nature, plants like coffee, chocolate (theobroma cacao), guarana, and camellia sinensis (tea), there are actually three stimulants typically present in varying amounts -- caffeine, theobromine, and theophylline -- the first and the last which are medically used drugs also.
I had an anxiety/depression disorder in college but it was mostly dysthymic depression so as everyone does in Seattle I carried a thermos of like 4 shots of espresso a day around campus. I think it has something to do with the general grey atmosphere that it is notorious that people spike their day in the Emerald City with caffeine to take off the gloom. I still miss my Seattle though.
But back home here in So Cal, besides the current problem I have, um... to put it discreetly it kicks up my digestion as well anxiolytically, I tend to have some sub-clinical IBS or something from time to time.
Which is all annoying because I could use a few more cups a day to counteract the antihistamine effects from the Seroquel. But I try to make by.
And I can understand from others that it may be calming, in a sort of nicotinic fashion, caffeine is a stimulant, and for those who, logic counterintuitive, have anxiety and yet are calmed by caffeine, can be said in the same way as the more powerful rx'd Strattera, Concerta, etc. Some will have this effect, some won't.
Posted by willyee on May 26, 2006, at 4:34:11
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Ba, posted by yxibow on May 26, 2006, at 0:15:10
I dont have the time to dig up where i looked but i remeber seeing somewhere that the reason people have coffee,and will say i am a wreck until i have my cup of coffee,as opposed to a moutain due is this.......
-- Caffiene is of course a stimulant,and most people will avoid strong soda drinks like mountain dew as its packed with caffiene and sugar,a double whammy,not to many people run to the Moutain Dew in the monring.
--- Coffe grind however,i know has a lot of constitutes in it,i know u mentioned some,but if i remeber correctly coffee has some calming prperties as well,the coffee not the caffiene,i believe they said certain compounds kinda resemble opiods,so the user gets the benifit of the Caffiene which is clearing up morning fog and turning on there brain switch,but they also get the calming effects of some of the compounds in the coffee itself,this being users who dont pound the drink with sugar.Im not a coffee drinker,so icouldent confirm this either way,but i do remeber that stuck out when i read it.
-- As a side note,Red Bull for example,mentions taruine often,and i notice due to that a lot of people with anxiety kinda take a step back when taurine is mentioned,and the first thing i hear is "taurine,are you crazy thats whats in red bull"Correct,however its in there along with tons of caffiene,sugar,and a few other stimulants.Taurine is the inhibatory ingredient that keeps the drink from making people jump out windows.
Its very common for a stimulant/sedative combo to be a drug of choice,it seems to the user as the best of both worlds,as you know a very popular drink is a redbull with VODKA,so u have taurine and alcholol,two strong inhibitors and a ton of stimulants,ur mind is open and on but ur body for the moment is calm.
Taurine also has a stablizing effect which for some people helps them think clearly because of it,taurine is one of the mentioned "smart nutrients".I dont believe traurine is in the drink to be a part of the rush experance,good ole caffiene and sugar will always provide that,just look at ur hard core soda driks and any weight loss product on the market,u pick that product up and along with all the CRAP thrown in various vitamins etc,you will surly see some form of caffiene there.
To answer your question,i have saved an article that speaks on caffiene,making note it is not toxic to the brain,and some actualy consider it somewhat protective as there are studies that show caffiene users are less likly to devolp certain brain abnormalites like alzhiemers etc......BUT we all know the value of studies.I do believe however aside from the fact u have to decide if its pyhsicaly making ur anxiety worse,one less worry is ur not actualy toxicating ur brain,the lethal dose of caffiene is very high,but i do understand the annoyance of trying to find out if a drug,herb or nutrient is either helping or a culprit since we read so many views since the age of the net........good luck.
Posted by Bonnie_CA on May 26, 2006, at 7:11:51
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Ba, posted by crabwalk on May 25, 2006, at 22:45:37
> I think these two, caffeine and pot, are the best drugs to have regularly in your life (if you choose to have drugs at all).
I must agree. :D Especially concurrently (smoking while drinking coffee) is nice. I'm waiting until the Prozac is totally stable before I go back to doing that. It's a weird effect huh? Feels relaxing and energizing at the same time.
I'm awfully glad I live in a state with medical marijuana.
Posted by Bonnie_CA on May 26, 2006, at 7:16:49
In reply to People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Bad?, posted by nicky847 on May 25, 2006, at 15:19:58
I think you have to just decide for yourself. I have never noticed that coffee trips off anxiety for me, but I avoid drinking too much caffiene anyway because of insomnia. I haven't been drinking coffee the past few weeks because of a nasty medication switch, but I'm sure I'll resume coffee again shortly (I always do). I have still been drinking some caffienated sodas, so I wouldn't have caffiene withdrawal on top of the Effexor withdrawal!
Anyway, just monitor yourself. Try going without coffee for awhile, and if it doesn't really help your anxiety, then drink up! :D
-Bonnie
Posted by nicky847 on May 26, 2006, at 11:34:57
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Ba » B2chica, posted by RobertDavid on May 25, 2006, at 21:22:13
This probably best describes my experience with it..ive now gone over 24 hours without any caffeine (which for me is alot)..and while i dont feel 100% better i do feel quite a bit better..
> I feel good for 2 hours max, then come crashing down with terrible anxiety. It's my understanding most people with anxiety should avoid it. There are probably better choices for mental clarity out there. Rob
Posted by Phillipa on May 26, 2006, at 12:56:33
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Ba, posted by yxibow on May 26, 2006, at 0:15:10
Jay when I lost my sense of taste and went to the smell and tasted centers they prescirbed theophylline. Is that why I crave chocolate even though I can't taste it? Can it wire you with the luvox especially that might explain my increased anxiety. Love Phillipa
Posted by fca on May 26, 2006, at 14:02:50
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Ba » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on May 26, 2006, at 12:56:33
I don't know whether it increases/decreases your anxiety but certainly the conventional wisdom, and science seems to suggest, it does increase anxiety. I decaffed a number of years ago but sometimes a get a craving for a real latte or some really good tea--my solution--keep some l-theanine (Suntheanine) around and if the caffeine gives you more of a buzz than you want take the l-theanine--it blocks the effects of caffeine.
Posted by linkadge on May 26, 2006, at 19:12:31
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Ba, posted by fca on May 26, 2006, at 14:02:50
A few studies have shown that regular coffee drinkers share a statistically lower rate of death from suicide. There could of course be other unknown factors which create the link.
It is possible that coffe helps some people with anxiety. Generally when you activate the frontal cortex, you can shut down certain overactive limbic circutry.
I will admit that caffiene gives me the "physical" symtpoms of anxiety, but in terms of worrying, or mental anxiety, nothing beats coffee to calm down (for me at least).
I also read a study that said that certain brain cells extended and grew longer after a dose of caffiene. Perhaps it is this neurotrophic property that mediates the antisuicide effect.
My father is the same way, cant sleep without coffee.
But different people react in different ways.
Linkadge
Posted by willyee on May 26, 2006, at 20:18:43
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Ba » fca, posted by linkadge on May 26, 2006, at 19:12:31
Very true,thats why i get so upset when people are cinical of others methods.
Hey im all for change,and if tanning works for someone totaly,who am i to challenge that,we dont know thats the truth.
On the same note there is a difference with having the intention of getting better vs self destructive behaviour,but thats a whole different disccusion.
I personaly find times when i swear i wont touch caffiene again,its a negative contribution,then i use it and feel much better.So i dont know where i stand per say,but luckly i dont feel i crave it,i easly can switch to sprite which is decaffinated and i dont tend to crave it.
Some people crave that rush,the body is a complex machine,i hope the soul is much less so.
Posted by yxibow on May 27, 2006, at 1:11:29
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Ba » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on May 26, 2006, at 12:56:33
> Jay when I lost my sense of taste and went to the smell and tasted centers they prescirbed theophylline. Is that why I crave chocolate even though I can't taste it? Can it wire you with the luvox especially that might explain my increased anxiety. Love Phillipa
That's a curious drug to prescribe, it is an old line asthma medication -- like epinephrine but less shocking, it opens airways and the like.If you're still taking it, yes, restlessness is common with the drug for the obvious reason that it is a type of stimulant, until you adjust to it.
Maybe the idea of opening airways was perhaps to clear your sinus passages and allow taste to occur as a result as our nose and throat of course are linked together -- I couldn't tell you a good answer for that question, I imagine it is a complicated one as to why they chose to use it.
I'm not sure on the craving part, but chocolate and coffee are contraindicated with theophylline in any significant quantities. There could be some psychological reason, but if you're not taking the medicine any more I doubt it too much. Chocolate "craving" is an individual thing.
Posted by jedi on May 27, 2006, at 3:30:58
In reply to People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Bad?, posted by nicky847 on May 25, 2006, at 15:19:58
For me the effects of caffeine really depend on the other medications I am taking. I remember, while taking Parnate, any caffeine would really wire me out. Seems to be the same while taking nortriptyline or bupropion. But with my mainstay of Nardil plus clonazepam, a couple of cups of Joe in the morning just picks me up and actually improves my mood. When I am already taking a stimulating med with the primary effect on norepinephrine the caffeine is just a little too much.
Jedi
Posted by heaven help me on May 27, 2006, at 15:23:16
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Bad?, posted by jedi on May 27, 2006, at 3:30:58
coffee is a bean. Beans naturally contain oils. When you grind a bean you release its oils which then begin to deteriorate until rancid (rancid is VERY bad for you). I don't think coffee is necessarily bad for you (in fact my Dr. said one cup a day is GOOD for you) What IS bad for you is rancid oils. So, if you must drink coffee (which I do), the best way to do it is to buy it from a place that JUST roasted it in the last half hour, take it home and immediately store it in your freezer. Then grind as you go for each cup. I do not have a grinder so I also have the place grind mine then store in, ground, immediately in the freezer. The freezer halts the process of rancidity (is that a word?)
blessings
mary
PS, Starbucks, while I love them, does not roast it's own. boo hoo (pps: roasting also begins the process of rancidification (he he - another new word)
Posted by linkadge on May 27, 2006, at 17:57:33
In reply to Just one more thing on coffee, posted by heaven help me on May 27, 2006, at 15:23:16
hmm. I heard that coffee had strong antioxidant potential, and that coffee drinkers apparently had a lower indidence of parkinson's.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2006, at 18:34:26
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Ba » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on May 27, 2006, at 1:11:29
Jay I didn't take the theophlline as I knew from being a nurse that the pts on it were highly anxious and it seems to wierd to a med for asthma, etc, could restore taste. Love Phillips
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on May 28, 2006, at 9:22:31
In reply to Just one more thing on coffee, posted by heaven help me on May 27, 2006, at 15:23:16
What about the instant powdered stuff??
Posted by jedi on May 28, 2006, at 14:57:26
In reply to Re: Just one more thing on coffee, posted by Meri-Tuuli on May 28, 2006, at 9:22:31
> What about the instant powdered stuff??
>
>Instant coffee has less caffeine than brewed but it can still be significant for those that are sensitive.
JediLink:
http://www.faqs.org/nutrition/Ca-De/Caffeine.htmlCAFFEINE IN FOODS AND BEVERAGES.
Food/Beverage Caffeine (milligrams)
Coffee
Espresso coffee, brewed, 8 fluid ounces 502
Coffee, brewed, 8 fluid ounces 85
Coffee, instant, 8 fluid ounces 62
Coffee, brewed, decaffeinated, 8 fluid ounces 3
Coffee, instant, decaffeinated, 8 fluid ounces 2
Tea
Tea, brewed, 8 fluid ounces 47
Tea, herbal, brewed, 8 fluid ounces 0
Tea, instant, 8 fluid ounces 29
Tea, brewed, decaffeinated, 8 fluid ounces 3
Chocolate Beverages
Hot chocolate, 8 fluid ounces 5
Chocolate milk, 8 fluid ounces 5
Soft Drinks
Cola, 12 ounce can 37
Cola, with higher caffeine, 12 ounce can 100
Cola or pepper-type, diet, 12 ounce can 49
Cola or pepper-type, regular or diet, without caffeine, 12 ounce can 0
Lemon-lime soda, regular or diet, 12 ounce can 0
Lemon-lime soda, with caffeine, 12 ounce can 55
Ginger ale, regular or diet, 12 ounce can 0
Root beer, regular or diet, 12 ounce can 0
Chocolate
Milk chocolate bar, 1.55 ounces 9
M & M milk chocolate candies, 1.69 ounces 5
Dark chocolate, semisweet, 1 ounce 20SOURCE: U.S. Department of Agriculture National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, Release 16 July 2003.
Posted by heaven help me on May 28, 2006, at 17:05:46
In reply to Re: Just one more thing on coffee, posted by Meri-Tuuli on May 28, 2006, at 9:22:31
Yuck! (sorry). I can not imagine that instant coffee has retained the oils properly...I hate the stuff. I only drink fresh roasted/fresh ground and frozen if stored at all
blessings
mary
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on May 29, 2006, at 7:44:05
In reply to Re: Just one more thing on coffee, posted by heaven help me on May 28, 2006, at 17:05:46
Hiya hhm.
Well, yeah, hmm. I think a good quality brand of instant is pretty acceptable. I live in the UK, so er, it might be different - most people here in their homes drink instant coffee, so perhaps the standards are higher with UK instant coffee.
Also, having had the experience of drinking fresh coffee from coffee shops both in the UK and in the USA, I can say that American coffee is very weak (compared to European coffee) and er, well, not to my taste shall we say. So I dread to think what American instant coffee must taste like!! Having said that, I think that the coffee here in coffee shops is too strong.
kind regards
Meri
Posted by heaven help me on May 29, 2006, at 8:09:14
In reply to Re: Just one more thing on coffee » heaven help me, posted by Meri-Tuuli on May 29, 2006, at 7:44:05
Hi again, This is really getting off board subjects but it's fun to talk about. You are right, American coffee is not as good as European coffee. Unless, you buy it JUST roasted, Just ground and you have it ground to espresso consistency and then make and drink it as espresso. Then it truely rivals your good stuff there!
blessings
mary
Posted by heaven help me on May 29, 2006, at 13:07:37
In reply to Re: Just one more thing on coffee, posted by heaven help me on May 29, 2006, at 8:09:14
Does anyone know if Green Tea has caffeine in it? And if so, how does the amount (and type) compare to coffee? And, does green tea interfere with meds at all?
thanks
blessings
mary
Posted by Nina78 on May 29, 2006, at 13:13:14
In reply to Re: Just one more thing on coffee » heaven help me, posted by Meri-Tuuli on May 29, 2006, at 7:44:05
> Well, yeah, hmm. I think a good quality brand of instant is pretty acceptable. I live in the UK, so er, it might be different - most people here in their homes drink instant coffee, so perhaps the standards are higher with UK instant coffee.
===============
Hi Meri,
I'm Dutch, live in the UK now. I find instant coffee disgusting, no matter which brand! I drink it in work, cos it's all we get. But at home I use a filter, and freshly ground coffee from Whittards. Try it, and you'll see the difference!Coffee shops in general have coffee too weak for my taste (there are a few exceptions!). I haven't had the "pleasure" of drinking coffee in the US. Small blessings :-)
Nina
Posted by Donna Louise on May 30, 2006, at 7:41:30
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Ba » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on May 26, 2006, at 12:56:33
> Jay when I lost my sense of taste and went to the smell and tasted centers they prescirbed theophylline. Is that why I crave chocolate even though I can't taste it? Can it wire you with the luvox especially that might explain my increased anxiety. Love Phillipa
Hey Phillipa, I am just reading through the board and saw on another thread that Larry Hoover said if you have lost your taste or smell you could need zinc. I have an asthmatic friend that uses theophylline and I think it is quite stimulating in a noradrenergic kind of way. I could see how it would aggrevate anxiety in some cases. The physical sense of it anyway.
Donna
Posted by Donna Louise on May 30, 2006, at 7:43:21
In reply to Re: People With Anxiety- Coffee Good..or Coffee Ba » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2006, at 18:34:26
> Jay I didn't take the theophlline as I knew from being a nurse that the pts on it were highly anxious and it seems to wierd to a med for asthma, etc, could restore taste. Love Phillips
oops, ignore above post, I should have read further. sorry.
Donna
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 30, 2006, at 22:20:14
In reply to How about a Greeen Tea question?, posted by heaven help me on May 29, 2006, at 13:07:37
> Does anyone know if Green Tea has caffeine in it?
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding Greeen Tea to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20060428/msgs/650701.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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