![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by erik98225 on May 13, 2006, at 11:45:16
I'm 25/M and have severe and often crippling social anxiety with a touch of insomnia and ADHD.
I am CURRENTLY prescribed:
Lexapro 15mg morning
Ritalin 10mg PRN (almost never)
Rozerem 8mg night
Atenolol 100mg night (for unrelated hypertension)The pseudo-benzos (Ambien and Lunesta) don't work for me; they make me drunk but NOT sleepy. Rozerem actually works.
I have been on Xanax PRN in the past. I have been on Paxil 60mg (this is equivalent to Lexapro 30mg IIRC). I have been on Klonopin daily (dose usually 2mg, highest ever was 4mg).
I recently tapered off the Klonopin by reducing it by 0.125mg every week and did not have to "go through hell" as I've often heard of. The (relatively minor) withdrawal symptoms were worst during the drop from 0.5 to 0.375 and I have been completely off it for a month.
I am now having some distressing physical anxiety symptoms -- tension headaches, nervous shaking, difficulty sleeping (Rozerem doesn't help). I have a hard time believing this is benzo withdrawal because it's been a month since I took the last 0.125mg dose. I am thinking that I might have to take benzos forever.
I have a tendency to abuse alcohol in the absense of appropriate medication, but oddly DON'T abuse benzos, nor can I imagine why anyone would want to. I know that benzos increase the effects of alcohol and have never had more than 2 drinks (which will feel like 3) when taking a benzo, and then only rarely.
I think that the MOST effective combination I have been on was:
Paxil 60mg morning
Ritalin 10mg 2x/day
Klonopin 2-4mg morning
Rozerem 8mg nightThis virtually eliminated all the problems of anxiety, social phobia, insomnia and limited attention span.
I am thinking of asking my pdoc to put me back on this combination when I next see him. He ought to have no problem prescribing Paxil or Klonopin because I have proven that I can quit them.
Does anyone on here have similar symptoms? If so, what medications do YOU take? Any input (even if it's to call me an idiot) would be appreciated.
Posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2006, at 12:27:42
In reply to Best social anxiety meds?, posted by erik98225 on May 13, 2006, at 11:45:16
If it worked why did you go off of them? Not to prove the doc right I hope. Love phillipa
Posted by RobertDavid on May 13, 2006, at 12:53:25
In reply to Best social anxiety meds?, posted by erik98225 on May 13, 2006, at 11:45:16
Well, I can releate to the social anxiety. I've had it all my life. I'm 49 now and looking back remember it first affecting my life when I was in little league.
It took me until I was about 28 to figure out that I was suffering from a real disorter and that I wasn't crazy. Until then I medicated with alcohol as when I was drinking, I was quite social, otherwise not.
Anyway, seems everyone is different and what works for one, doesn't always work for another. So after mowing through every SSRI and SNRI there is plus trying some mood stabilizers and other psycho tropic meds/blends Klonopin did the trick for my anxiety. I didn't need to go as high as you but once was up to 3mgs.
But klonopin wasn't the total answer as it tackled the anxiety, but I was still somewhat depressed and lacked energy. Konopoin has continued to work for 12 year and though I too have had issues with abusing alcohol at times, I never have abused klonopin. I think the times I drink/drank in excess is when I feel my worst, tired, depressed and though alcohol is a great temporary mood elivator, but I have always paid with increased depression the next day.
For about 5 weeks I've added EMSAM the MAOI patch. It's worked wonder for elivating my mood, I feel great. I'm not sure if the combo of it with klonopin is the ticket or if perhaps ulitimately EMSAM will work well as mono therapy. So I'm slowly going down on the klonopin to see how it goes. But if need be, I'll be happy just feeling the way I do now on both meds.
I didn't notice if you've ever tried an MAOI before. EMSAM is still a bit of an unknown as far as social anxiety goes and it was approved as an anti depressant, but time will tell. Nardil is proven to work great for many with social anxiety as well as Parnate. I'm guessing EMSAM will turn out to help not only with depression, but will help many with SP too.
You may consider giving one of them a try. The only MAOI I have ever tried is EMSAM as it is the only one without food interactions at the 20mg dose. I think there's other advantages as well including a lower side effect profile.
So, my vote would be to try an MAOI and blend it with klonopin, particularly since you've had some relieve from klonopin in the past and you know you can get off it if you want. So far the combo has got me the most "normal" I've been in 49 years.
Good luck! Rob
Posted by erik98225 on May 13, 2006, at 13:06:49
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds? » erik98225, posted by RobertDavid on May 13, 2006, at 12:53:25
> Well, I can releate to the social anxiety. I've had it all my life. I'm 49 now and looking back remember it first affecting my life when I was in little league.
In terms of interacting with others, it's probably the worst psychiatric disorder -- outside schizophrenia -- to have. (I graduated Magna Cum Laude with a psych degree, focus in abnormal, in 2005.)
> Anyway, seems everyone is different and what works for one, doesn't always work for another. So after mowing through every SSRI and SNRI there is plus trying some mood stabilizers and other psycho tropic meds/blends Klonopin did the trick for my anxiety. I didn't need to go as high as you but once was up to 3mgs.I'm pretty insensitive to medication. The normal adult dose of aspirin (650mg) does nothing; I need 975mg (3 pills).
4mg was the most effective dose of klonopin, but caused a bit of drowsiness -- it's equivalent to 80mg diazepam, a very high dose. I settled on 2mg as a compromise.
> But klonopin wasn't the total answer as it tackled the anxiety, but I was still somewhat depressed and lacked energy. Konopoin has continued to work for 12 year and though I too have had issues with abusing alcohol at times, I never have abused klonopin. I think the times I drink/drank in excess is when I feel my worst, tired, depressed and though alcohol is a great temporary mood elivator, but I have always paid with increased depression the next day.Sounds like me. Alcohol -- the 3,000 year old psych medicine -- causes more problems than it solves.
> For about 5 weeks I've added EMSAM the MAOI patch. It's worked wonder for elivating my mood, I feel great. I'm not sure if the combo of it with klonopin is the ticket or if perhaps ulitimately EMSAM will work well as mono therapy. So I'm slowly going down on the klonopin to see how it goes. But if need be, I'll be happy just feeling the way I do now on both meds.Does EMSAM require those horrible diet restrictions? I can't live without cheese!
> I didn't notice if you've ever tried an MAOI before. EMSAM is still a bit of an unknown as far as social anxiety goes and it was approved as an anti depressant, but time will tell. Nardil is proven to work great for many with social anxiety as well as Parnate. I'm guessing EMSAM will turn out to help not only with depression, but will help many with SP too.I've never tried an MAOI or even been offered one. You can't eat anything that tastes good!!
> So, my vote would be to try an MAOI and blend it with klonopin, particularly since you've had some relieve from klonopin in the past and you know you can get off it if you want. So far the combo has got me the most "normal" I've been in 49 years.I think the Klonopin did a lot of good. I decided to quit it to prove that I CAN, so the Dr. won't be apprehensive about prescribing it. :)
Benzos are not a triplicate in my state, but are regulated at the federal level due to their "addiction" potential.
Posted by erik98225 on May 13, 2006, at 13:07:48
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds? » erik98225, posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2006, at 12:27:42
> If it worked why did you go off of them? Not to prove the doc right I hope. Love phillipa
To prove the doc WRONG. To prove I can quit benzos, so the doc won't be nervous about prescribing them.
Posted by RobertDavid on May 13, 2006, at 13:35:33
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds? » RobertDavid, posted by erik98225 on May 13, 2006, at 13:06:49
> Does EMSAM require those horrible diet restrictions? I can't live without cheese!
EMSAM is approved without food restrictions at the 20mg patch dose. I eat everything I want and have without issue. I just don't pay attention to it. My doctor said to eat what I want, I do. I have certainly eaten foods and drank things that would be a no no on a typical MAOI diet.This was one of the reasons I held out for the EMSAM approval vs trying other MAOI's (though if it didn't get approved I planned on trying Nardil). That said, you DO need to watch for drug interactions and need to avoid things like over the counter cold remedies. Rob
Posted by Donna Louise on May 15, 2006, at 8:07:19
In reply to Best social anxiety meds?, posted by erik98225 on May 13, 2006, at 11:45:16
> I'm 25/M and have severe and often crippling social anxiety with a touch of insomnia and ADHD.
>
> I am CURRENTLY prescribed:
>
> Lexapro 15mg morning
> Ritalin 10mg PRN (almost never)
> Rozerem 8mg night
> Atenolol 100mg night (for unrelated hypertension)
>
> The pseudo-benzos (Ambien and Lunesta) don't work for me; they make me drunk but NOT sleepy. Rozerem actually works.
>
> I have been on Xanax PRN in the past. I have been on Paxil 60mg (this is equivalent to Lexapro 30mg IIRC). I have been on Klonopin daily (dose usually 2mg, highest ever was 4mg).
>
> I recently tapered off the Klonopin by reducing it by 0.125mg every week and did not have to "go through hell" as I've often heard of. The (relatively minor) withdrawal symptoms were worst during the drop from 0.5 to 0.375 and I have been completely off it for a month.
>
> I am now having some distressing physical anxiety symptoms -- tension headaches, nervous shaking, difficulty sleeping (Rozerem doesn't help). I have a hard time believing this is benzo withdrawal because it's been a month since I took the last 0.125mg dose. I am thinking that I might have to take benzos forever.
>
> I have a tendency to abuse alcohol in the absense of appropriate medication, but oddly DON'T abuse benzos, nor can I imagine why anyone would want to. I know that benzos increase the effects of alcohol and have never had more than 2 drinks (which will feel like 3) when taking a benzo, and then only rarely.
>
> I think that the MOST effective combination I have been on was:
>
> Paxil 60mg morning
> Ritalin 10mg 2x/day
> Klonopin 2-4mg morning
> Rozerem 8mg night
>
> This virtually eliminated all the problems of anxiety, social phobia, insomnia and limited attention span.
>
> I am thinking of asking my pdoc to put me back on this combination when I next see him. He ought to have no problem prescribing Paxil or Klonopin because I have proven that I can quit them.
>
> Does anyone on here have similar symptoms? If so, what medications do YOU take? Any input (even if it's to call me an idiot) would be appreciated.I feel so silly today that I am having a hard time not saying "Well, Idiot.." but I am afraid you would think I meant it. Now, wasn't that a clever way of doing it..agh. I am so weird. Anyway, I find provigil helpful with the social anxiety. I intially took it for excessive daytime sleepiness thanks to one of the ssri's..and was happy to discover that it really helps me want to be social. It is really horrible, before I got so sick I was very sociable, it is sad really. Now with the patch, I am starting to really feel like myself again (minus the bad stuff)and I don't need the provigil for excessive daytime sleepiness with the patch (I have no trouble sleeping either with the patch, that has gotten normal for me too) and I think in time I will let go of the provigil for the social ease it gives me.
You are no idiot. I am just silly.Donna
Posted by Pops_1 on May 15, 2006, at 13:51:20
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds? » erik98225, posted by Donna Louise on May 15, 2006, at 8:07:19
History
- I never had any luck with SSRIs, Wellbutrin, or Remeron.
- Nardil & Parnate seemed useful for making me more outgoing but side effects (loss of libido, periods of overwhelming fatigue in afternoon & evening) and diet restrictions outweighed benefit.
My Current Combination
- Low dose Neurontin (300 mg) seems to make me "perkier" on days I take it, but effects don't last on sustained dosages. I take 2-3 times a week at most on days I want to be more social, and use the off times to let it regain its mild effectiveness.
- Klonopin reduces social anxiety but anything more than .25-.5 makes me dully and sleepy. I also am naturally just more of an introvert and dont need a drug that quells anxiety (heart pumping, sweatting, nervousness) so much as something that makes me more animated and desirous of talking/communicating with others.
- So I added Dexedrine 2.5 mg direct release + 2.5 mg spansule to give me a bit of a talkative boost and to counteract Klonopin's dulling effects. When combined with 300 mg neurontin this makes me as social as I'm likely to be. Higher doses of dexedrine make my mind & pulse race uncomfortably.
Adderall made me irritable and ritalin didn't seem to have to pro-social effects for me.
Future Plans- I am planning on trying higher dose klonopin with higher dose dexedrine to see if I get more of an effect without the overexcitement I usually get on dexedrine or the sleepiness of Klonopin, but am waiting for just the right day to try it.
- I am also considering starting EMSAM, possibly with some klonopin, though not sure if my insurer (Aetna) will cover the patch for a non-depression diagnosis.
HTH!
Posted by RobertDavid on May 15, 2006, at 14:03:56
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds?, posted by Pops_1 on May 15, 2006, at 13:51:20
> History
>
> - I never had any luck with SSRIs, Wellbutrin, or Remeron.
>
> - Nardil & Parnate seemed useful for making me more outgoing but side effects (loss of libido, periods of overwhelming fatigue in afternoon & evening) and diet restrictions outweighed benefit.
>
> My Current Combination
>
> - Low dose Neurontin (300 mg) seems to make me "perkier" on days I take it, but effects don't last on sustained dosages. I take 2-3 times a week at most on days I want to be more social, and use the off times to let it regain its mild effectiveness.
>
> - Klonopin reduces social anxiety but anything more than .25-.5 makes me dully and sleepy. I also am naturally just more of an introvert and dont need a drug that quells anxiety (heart pumping, sweatting, nervousness) so much as something that makes me more animated and desirous of talking/communicating with others.
>
> - So I added Dexedrine 2.5 mg direct release + 2.5 mg spansule to give me a bit of a talkative boost and to counteract Klonopin's dulling effects. When combined with 300 mg neurontin this makes me as social as I'm likely to be. Higher doses of dexedrine make my mind & pulse race uncomfortably.
>
> Adderall made me irritable and ritalin didn't seem to have to pro-social effects for me.
>
>
> Future Plans
>
> - I am planning on trying higher dose klonopin with higher dose dexedrine to see if I get more of an effect without the overexcitement I usually get on dexedrine or the sleepiness of Klonopin, but am waiting for just the right day to try it.
>
> - I am also considering starting EMSAM, possibly with some klonopin, though not sure if my insurer (Aetna) will cover the patch for a non-depression diagnosis.
>
>
> HTH!
Klonopin is a great med to treat social anxiety. Key is taking a dose (which varies) that's theraputic. Typically most fit in the 1 to 4 mg per day range.I take my entire dose at bedtime which helps avoid day time sleepyness and perhaps other cognitive issues. It has a long half life so I get the anti anxiety benefits all day long. At lower doses it didn't help much. Once I got up on dose it really kicked in and I was much more social.
You might consider taking your full dose at bedtime and working your way higher. I've seen others that have had similar complaints that you've stated with klonopin do well when going up on dose and taking at least the majority of it at bedtime. Just a thought. Good luck
Posted by Caedmon on May 15, 2006, at 18:06:09
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds?, posted by Pops_1 on May 15, 2006, at 13:51:20
> - So I added Dexedrine 2.5 mg direct release + 2.5 mg spansule to give me a bit of a talkative boost and to counteract Klonopin's dulling effects. >
This is fantastic. Did you bring this up or did your doctor suggest it? I want to try Dexedrine for a variety of reasons (social phobia, tiredness, anhedonia, inattentiveness among them).
- Chris
Posted by jedi on May 16, 2006, at 2:25:35
In reply to Best social anxiety meds?, posted by erik98225 on May 13, 2006, at 11:45:16
> I'm 25/M and have severe and often crippling social anxiety with a touch of insomnia and ADHD.
>
> I am CURRENTLY prescribed:
>
> Lexapro 15mg morning
> Ritalin 10mg PRN (almost never)
> Rozerem 8mg night
> Atenolol 100mg night (for unrelated hypertension)
>
...Hi,
For me the best medication for social anxiety is a combination of Nardil and clonazepam. Many doctors don't realize how crippling social anxiety can be. This is the big gun, but if nothing else works, this combination probably will. Just my opinion, but it is based on a lot of research and personal experience. It sure won't help your insomnia but the Nardil will also probably lower your BP.
Take care,
Jedi
Posted by RobertDavid on May 16, 2006, at 2:30:42
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds? » erik98225, posted by jedi on May 16, 2006, at 2:25:35
> > I'm 25/M and have severe and often crippling social anxiety with a touch of insomnia and ADHD.
> >
> > I am CURRENTLY prescribed:
> >
> > Lexapro 15mg morning
> > Ritalin 10mg PRN (almost never)
> > Rozerem 8mg night
> > Atenolol 100mg night (for unrelated hypertension)
> >
> ...
>
> Hi,
> For me the best medication for social anxiety is a combination of Nardil and clonazepam. Many doctors don't realize how crippling social anxiety can be. This is the big gun, but if nothing else works, this combination probably will. Just my opinion, but it is based on a lot of research and personal experience. It sure won't help your insomnia but the Nardil will also probably lower your BP.
> Take care,
> Jedi
I agree that combining klonopin and nardil as a blend is bringing out the big guns to treat social anxiety. Though I haven't tried nardil, I know there are so many that get help with it and have no doubt the two combined would have a good chance of really helping those that haven't responded well to other meds or konopin/nardil as mono therapy. Just my opinion. Rob
Posted by Pops_1 on May 16, 2006, at 13:21:04
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds? » Pops_1, posted by RobertDavid on May 15, 2006, at 14:03:56
> You might consider taking your full dose at bedtime and working your way higher. I've seen others that have had similar complaints that you've stated with klonopin do well when going up on dose and taking at least the majority of it at bedtime.
Thanks for the suggestion! I'll give that a try, as the .25-.5 dosage morning dose seems helpful, but not terribly significant. It might also allow me to add regular release dexedrine to achieve acceptable state of alertness without having to find exact balance to counteract sleep-inducing effect for entire work day if I took 1mg in morning. I'll report back any results.
Posted by Pops_1 on May 16, 2006, at 13:26:04
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds? » Pops_1, posted by Caedmon on May 15, 2006, at 18:06:09
> > - So I added Dexedrine 2.5 mg direct release + 2.5 mg spansule to give me a bit of a talkative boost and to counteract Klonopin's dulling effects. >
>
> This is fantastic. Did you bring this up or did your doctor suggest it? I want to try Dexedrine for a variety of reasons (social phobia, tiredness, anhedonia, inattentiveness among them).I brought it up after doing exhaustive searches about 2 years ago on different socializing meds. (And I should correct - I actually take about 1/2 of a 15mg spansule, so my real CR dosage is 7.5 mg not 2.5 mg.) Luckily the PDOC I chose primarily treats adult ADD, so had no problem prescribing various stimulants meds!
Like you I tended to have tiredness, anhedonia, low motivation, and social anxiety. Bordering on atypical depression, really, but not bad enough to warrant the label or use of antidepressants. Dexedrine & klonopin are great in part b/c they can be used "as needed" and I take drug holidays on the weekend.
Posted by sparky123 on May 28, 2006, at 3:23:27
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds?, posted by Pops_1 on May 16, 2006, at 13:26:04
i dont think any of you should be on medication its making you all crazy. and if you felt crazy before the meds then something else would have fixed it beside brain drugs. ive been there and done that.
yes i was just like you all and now i dont need meds.they ruined me. have any of you here ever had your thyroid tested. i bet not cause doctors are preoccupied with prescribing antidepressants straight from the start.
when really the underliing cause goes undiagnosed.
if it ant the thyroid then there are other things that cause anxiety and depression. its not always in your head. theres about 100 thigs that cause these diseases of the mind.
but the doctors arnt trained to diagnose root causes. there only trained to treat the symtoms of the disease.
i was diagnosed with social phobia and major depresion.
you americans have it bad. i hear that the pharmasutical companies are drumming it your head that you need all these meds to become well when all it is is a massive marketing sceem to make profit. the whole things destroying people's lives.
cant you see. its a business thats getting out of control. they make billions from these stupid made up diseases. there isnt any pysical evendince that social phobia exsist. or any of the other diseases.
they dont exray your head and say g wiz you have social phobia. or ocd or GAD or this or that. people are just feeling so rotten and ill that they cant be social. they bigin to behave wierd because there finding ways to cope.
you got to rebuild your self with good health and preserve it into old age. this crap can be reversed you just got to steer away from this sickness industry.
i read in time magazine that mental disorders were diagnosed 1 in 1000 in the 1950's. now a days its 1 in 4 or five. you work it out. dont think i dont care because i care very much for you all.
Posted by Donna Louise on May 28, 2006, at 6:48:10
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds?, posted by sparky123 on May 28, 2006, at 3:23:27
> i dont think any of you should be on medication its making you all crazy. and if you felt crazy before the meds then something else would have fixed it beside brain drugs. ive been there and done that.
>
> yes i was just like you all and now i dont need meds.they ruined me. have any of you here ever had your thyroid tested. i bet not cause doctors are preoccupied with prescribing antidepressants straight from the start.
>
> when really the underliing cause goes undiagnosed.
>
> if it ant the thyroid then there are other things that cause anxiety and depression. its not always in your head. theres about 100 thigs that cause these diseases of the mind.
>
> but the doctors arnt trained to diagnose root causes. there only trained to treat the symtoms of the disease.
>
> i was diagnosed with social phobia and major depresion.
>
> you americans have it bad. i hear that the pharmasutical companies are drumming it your head that you need all these meds to become well when all it is is a massive marketing sceem to make profit. the whole things destroying people's lives.
>
> cant you see. its a business thats getting out of control. they make billions from these stupid made up diseases. there isnt any pysical evendince that social phobia exsist. or any of the other diseases.
>
> they dont exray your head and say g wiz you have social phobia. or ocd or GAD or this or that. people are just feeling so rotten and ill that they cant be social. they bigin to behave wierd because there finding ways to cope.
>
> you got to rebuild your self with good health and preserve it into old age. this crap can be reversed you just got to steer away from this sickness industry.
> i read in time magazine that mental disorders were diagnosed 1 in 1000 in the 1950's. now a days its 1 in 4 or five. you work it out. dont think i dont care because i care very much for you all.Thank you for your concern Sparky, I believe you mean it. And boy, do I ever wish I could be fixed by finding a problem elsewhere in my body that is causing my mental illness. I have looked at everything (part of my obsessiveness with myself..) and the only thing that is wrong with me is Hep C. Otherwise, I am disgustingly healthy. I know liver disease can cause depression and such, the problem is that I have been mentally ill long before the hepatitis. The depression makes me a poor candidate for hepatitis tx as that makes one suicidally depressed so I am just cruising along with it as the type I have is so inactive that I will die from something else long before the liver even becomes comprimised. Anyway, what I am saying is, I truly wish I could find something wrong with me that I could fix and be done with but there is nothing and I have had to accept that I have a mental illness and that has been a long hard road to travel. I have also tried every other kind of latest and greatest alternative help to no avail, just a deepening despair that I am stuck with this. So I have had the most success with accepting what is and taking the most appropriate medicine for it and doing my best to live a normal life. But I so wish it were my stupid thyroid and I could take the thyroid pill and have done with it.
I do appreciate your concern.Donna
Posted by verne on May 28, 2006, at 9:06:54
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds?, posted by sparky123 on May 28, 2006, at 3:23:27
I've had everything including my thyroid tested, tried many alternative cures, chinese herbalists, light-box therapy, meditation, nutritional supplements, and found little help for chronic atypical depression and anxiety.
Last year alone, I spent over $1,500 on herbs and supplements. I was even importing albizzia bark and flowers from the Orient. I spend double that on additional alternative therapy each year. One time I bought a *left spin* mug for $80.00. The friend who talked me into the mug, spent thousands on special jewelry, magnets, and pyramids among other things. The magnet mattress pad nearly put her in the hospital.
Medical science is now discovering there are physical differences in the brains of those with various forms of mental illness and even personality disorders. The brain of someone with borderline personality disorder actually looks different - even though this disorder isn't congential but *acquired* in childhood.
I'm really hoping the new anti-depressant, Emsam, works for me. I see a pdoc next month.
Verne
Posted by llrrrpp on May 28, 2006, at 18:46:43
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds?, posted by sparky123 on May 28, 2006, at 3:23:27
Sparky123 says "i dont think any of you should be on medication its making you all crazy"
I find this statement offensive. Please do not make generalizations and put people into categories, especially if the categories are derogatory ("crazy")
Sparky, I'm happy you've found something that works for you. However, this does not give you prerogative to tell the rest of us what our problems are, and what we must do about them.
Sincerely,
llrrrpp
Posted by RobertDavid on May 28, 2006, at 19:52:43
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds?, posted by sparky123 on May 28, 2006, at 3:23:27
> i dont think any of you should be on medication its making you all crazy. and if you felt crazy before the meds then something else would have fixed it beside brain drugs. ive been there and done that.
>
> yes i was just like you all and now i dont need meds.they ruined me. have any of you here ever had your thyroid tested. i bet not cause doctors are preoccupied with prescribing antidepressants straight from the start.
>
> when really the underliing cause goes undiagnosed.
>
> if it ant the thyroid then there are other things that cause anxiety and depression. its not always in your head. theres about 100 thigs that cause these diseases of the mind.
>
> but the doctors arnt trained to diagnose root causes. there only trained to treat the symtoms of the disease.
>
> i was diagnosed with social phobia and major depresion.
>
> you americans have it bad. i hear that the pharmasutical companies are drumming it your head that you need all these meds to become well when all it is is a massive marketing sceem to make profit. the whole things destroying people's lives.
>
> cant you see. its a business thats getting out of control. they make billions from these stupid made up diseases. there isnt any pysical evendince that social phobia exsist. or any of the other diseases.
>
> they dont exray your head and say g wiz you have social phobia. or ocd or GAD or this or that. people are just feeling so rotten and ill that they cant be social. they bigin to behave wierd because there finding ways to cope.
>
> you got to rebuild your self with good health and preserve it into old age. this crap can be reversed you just got to steer away from this sickness industry.
> i read in time magazine that mental disorders were diagnosed 1 in 1000 in the 1950's. now a days its 1 in 4 or five. you work it out. dont think i dont care because i care very much for you all.Though I respect your opinion as well as everyones opinion and right to take or not take meds I can say for me personally, based on my experiences I respectfully disagree with your comments on medication and mental disorters.
Since I was a kid, there was always something about life that was scary for me, I was edgy, fearful, avoided social situations, was thought way back then (I'm 49 now) to have been a hyperactive child. Though I was not given medication then as I got older and went into high school I got to the point that I could hardly go to school as when the door shut, I had panic attacks. I went to school nurses and talked with others even the family doctor who didn't know what to do. I tried some therapy even way back then, but I still could hardly function. The only thing that helped me with a social life was drinking, and when I did drink, I was social and seemed to get a "temporary" repreave from my unknown anxiety disorter.
After graduating from high school my father passed and I was forced to drop out of College, get a job. But I couldn't keep the job which paid well, because I couldn't handle the meetings, was constantly edgy, had unknown panic attacks of which I went to the ER many times certain my life was ending soon as I was convinced that the real physical feelings I was getting, pounding heart, shakes, feeling like I was going to black out was a sign that there was definately something wrong.
So I began testin for everything. Sugar levels, thyroid, heart, on and on and on. But nothing was wrong with me they said. But I wondered, "how could this be" something was certainly going on, I knew it. The doctors just told me to take it easy, relax, it was probably stress. But my sypmtoms continued and my world began to shrink. I had to quit my job. I was unaable to drive, I couldn't handle even going to a grocery store or bank because these feelings came back when I was in a line or ran into someone I knew.
So about that time, in my mid 20's I decided I needed to take things into my own hands on my quest to feel better. I became a vacume for information on how to feel your best, herbal suppliments, etc. I quit drinking, I joined a gym and worked out hard, lost weight, got in good shape, I quit smoking, I got a new therapist and went to individual and group session (for 7 years), but nothing improved though certainly my overall health was better. I was still dealing with this crazy issue in my head, "why was I this way, am I the only person like this?"
With each step I took towards trying to cure my problem I was hopeful each one would be the answer, when I quit drinking I thought that would be it, when I quit smoking it would be that, exercise would cure me, but no, I was still a scared man that lived this little fearful life. I wouldn't get serious in a relationship because of the fear of meeting her family or heaven forbid I ever had to get up in front of everyone and get married.
The therapists, of which I saw many, kept assuring me I'd get well. I tried many different approaches, but I still had this on going anxiety, fear, depression. I just wished that one day I'd be properly diagnosed, that they'd find what was wrong with me, perhaps a tumor in my brain, anything, I just wanted to find the cause and deal with it the best I could.
Then one day back about 18 years ago I saw a tv special on panic attacks and though I don't have panic disorter I said "that's me", I couldn't believe there were others out there like me, I wasn't crazy, there was really a disorter that could be treated.
After seening that I starting reaserching every bit of info I could on the topic. After a while books started popping up about anxiety disorters. I found a therapist that specialized in treating anxiety disorters and drove 1.5 hours twice a week and paid cash to see him. But I still suffered, still was anit social, still was miserable.
Finally I found a doctor that said there was a new drug out "paxil" that would help me. I finally decided to try medication and was so hopefull I could be treated for my lousy condition (which I have now come to know its generalized social anxiety disorter, generalized anxiety disorter and dysthymia).
Though Paxil didn't work for me I began to research other possible medications and went through all other SSRI's without much help. I was getting discuraged when I read a book on anxiety disorters and how to think your way through panic attacks. The writer happened to be relatively local so I called her and explained my situation to her. She was one of the first to point out that a combination of therapy and medication would be most effective. I told her of my medication failures and she suggested I try to see one particular doctor who was well known for treating anxiety disorters. He was a 2 hour drive away, but I didn't care, I would have driven 6 just to see if he could have helped me.
I reaserched him and found that he was very well known, not a quck doctor, a reasercher as well. At the time I felt he was my last hope. Within 2 sessions he properly diagnosed me. We reviewed the meds I tried and how I responded to them. It was his opinion that therapy is useful, but some people like me were just wired differently and medication would be the best solution, the most effective way to live a productive life. He gave me 2 options to try, Klonopin or Nardil. After doing a little reasearch on my own about both medications and further discussing it with my doctor I chose to try klonopin. Within days I was feeling better, more at ease, more social, in weeks I was getting out, I was finally living, I didn't know what that felt like before.
And after a period of time I started a company which I still own and have 25 people working for me, have friends a social life and don't live in the scary crazy world I once knew. That was over a decade ago and I continue to see the same doctor and continue to function and feel good. And with his recommendation I have since added EMSAM to the blend which has enhanced klonopin by further improving my mood.
So I respectfully disagree with your opinion. Medication, klonopin in particular has allowed me to have been married, have a daugher, have a career, feel good, have a social life that I would never have had. I tried everything before medication, but I'm convinced that some people, certainly me just plain won't get well, live a quality life without medication. One time I thought I'd get off it to see if I was curred. I asked my doctor what he thought. He said there would be a chance I'd be okay, but many just need to take the medication the rest of their lives and that if so to think of it as being good for you, like a vitamin pill as stress and anxiety are killers. So I got off klonopin all together, then all my symptoms returned, I had forgotten how bad life was before, all those years I had suffered. I know know that I'm well on klonopin, even better with EMSAM added.
I wouldn't trade my old world back just to be medicine free for anything in the world. I look at it this way, if your a diabetic, you need insolin. I have anxiety disorters which require medicine, klonopin in my case. If I want to be well and healthy I need to take my medicine.
Anyway, just my opinion on the topic........Rob
Posted by Last Chance on May 28, 2006, at 21:07:40
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds? - Meds do work, posted by RobertDavid on May 28, 2006, at 19:52:43
Robert David - thank you for your post - I could easily identify with everything you said - I remember taking 60mgs of Valium the day I got married - it only lasted a year. The best drug ever for me was Nardil, but I only took it for about a year. The sexual side effects were the reason I quit. Social anxiety disorder really has ruined my life - I was a musician with great promise, but my extreme symptoms of anxiety finally caused me to throw in the towel over 30 years ago. Since then I have rarely played, and only while on Nardil, and Klonapin for performance night only, did I get out there on stage. Klonapin alone didn't do it, and I have spent the last year trying to get off it - now down to .125mg. Problem is, my life has only gotten worse during this time. I just started Emsam today - cut a 6mg in half. I have some Ambien and Xanax if the anxiety gets to be too much. May take off at bedtime. I just hate it that I can't take care of it myself, but that attitude, enhanced by a lot of "don't take meds" friends, has kept me from really living for all this time. Hell, I was a nervous, run away from social situations kid at age 5. Now 61, and not in the greatest health, I will try again, and I think I finally realize that I need the help of meds - they aren't perfect, or without problems, but I would like to get something happening again in my life. Richard
Posted by janeB on May 29, 2006, at 23:56:46
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds? - Meds do work, posted by RobertDavid on May 28, 2006, at 19:52:43
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 31, 2006, at 2:45:00
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds?, posted by llrrrpp on May 28, 2006, at 18:46:43
> Sparky123 says "i dont think any of you should be on medication its making you all crazy"
>
> I find this statement offensive. Please do not make generalizations and put people into categories, especially if the categories are derogatory ("crazy")
>
> Sparky, I'm happy you've found something that works for you. However, this does not give you prerogative to tell the rest of us what our problems are, and what we must do about them.Thanks for posting that. My preference, however, would be "I feel offended" rather than "that statement is offensive"...
If anyone has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing themselves, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by sparky123 on May 31, 2006, at 6:35:21
In reply to Re: please be civil » sparky123, posted by Dr. Bob on May 31, 2006, at 2:45:00
sorry dr bob. i do get a bit out of control somtimes. ill try to use more respectful words from now on dude.
Posted by Bonnie_CA on May 31, 2006, at 6:51:10
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds? - Meds do work, posted by RobertDavid on May 28, 2006, at 19:52:43
You summed it up in a really great story Rob. We all have similar stories of some sort, and I don't feel like putting my whole thing out. But I'll add my two cents or so.
I think the reason people like Sparky feel the way they do is because they had no business being on the medication in the first place. I'm bothered by the hostile tone of that person's post... and I'm not sure exactly what was supposed to be accomplished by posting that way. Anyone who has been to a GP about mysterious problems HAS indeed had a full gambit of tests done, if that doctor is worth their salary. When I went to the doc 8 years ago with mysterious motion problems (airplane feeling during class, nearly fainting in class, random dizziness),I had EVERYTHING tested, even if it was a long shot. Every major organ, blood sugar and hormones, EKG... and it was a written test that tipped it off. I had no idea that there was an actual anxiety disorder until I started taking this test... and I was picking my answers, thinking "Do other people think like this? Wow!" To my amazement, there are people with crushing anxiety disorder, where your body is healthy as can be and your brain is loopy! I scored extremely high, and thus diagnosing me with generalized anxiety disorder.
Doctors need to take more care in diagnosing mental impairments, because when they're wrong, we get angry people like Sparky. I'd be pretty ticked if my diagnosis was wrong too. While that person's anger is very much misdirected (directing anger at the drugs and drug companies instead of the person's own doctor for misdiagnosing), it is what will cause extreme scrunity about the mental health profession. For those people that actually need the medication, it does not make us "crazy". In fact, it is quite the opposite. Believe me, if you want crazy... take my schizophrenic uncle off of his drugs. Then I'll send him over to your house. Tell that guy that his drugs make him crazy. LOL He's really a fabulous guy, and when he's off his rocker he isn't dangerous (which is why it is so hard to get him committed when he's off!), but he is extremely messed up without drugs.
Saying the drugs make a person crazy is like saying a special education class makes a person slow. If it weren't for medications, I wouldn't have finished college, I wouldn't be able to hold a job, I wouldn't be able to HAVE SEX (triggered panic), I wouldn't be able to get married and move across the country... I wouldn't have my life. And I'm a musician and a teacher, I need to be able to leave my house and function. People say "remove the stress"... but what is the point of living if you have to remove pretty much everything out of your life in an effort to "reduce stress"? When getting out of bed in the morning is stressful, that would definitely be an anxiety disorder. And all the talking in the world can only do so much. I am grateful that there are medications to help people with mental impairments. Just think, my sweet uncle would have been just thrown in an asylum a century ago. Because of medication, he got to graduate from college, have a life, be with his family... you can't deny that.
I hope that someday there is better education for all people about mental health.
-Bonnie
Posted by willyee on June 2, 2006, at 22:58:21
In reply to Re: Best social anxiety meds?, posted by sparky123 on May 28, 2006, at 3:23:27
Do u know for a fact that no brain differences exsist in clincaly depressed people vs non?
You make some strong comments,i agree with u as far as medications go,but i dont believe we can generalize all mental and emotional disorders to thyroid or the like,the brain is no different than the rest of the body,and like ur body,from ur toes to ur spine,u can have illness,something not correct,the brain being the most complex body part,i dont see how this should be exlcuded.
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