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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by strugglingsteve on December 14, 2005, at 0:40:42
I just started on nardil last week and am going slow per my doctor. I will be at 45 mg by this weekend and am wondering if that can be an effective dose for depression and anxiety. I have read where some posters were doing fine at 45 but most needed at least 60. As for side effects, not really getting any which is rare for me, so do they take time to show up or would they hit once you take them at a certain dosage? Last question, food topics, bacon, clam chowder and chicken soup at a restaurant. I have read some posters say regular bacon is ok, is it? What about chicken soup at a deli restaurant? Jessica Rosenberg wrote that she got sick on clam chowder that used smoked canned clams, is canned fish ok or not, I read on here that tuna is ok so why not canned clams???
Posted by gardenergirl on December 14, 2005, at 10:23:53
In reply to Nardil dosage, food and side effect questions, posted by strugglingsteve on December 14, 2005, at 0:40:42
Hi,
I don't think I noticed any side effects at 45 mg except for hyperreflexia (boy does my knee jerk when tapped!) and anorgasmia, which got better after about 3 months.As for bacon, I've never had any problems with any store-bought brand. Chicken soup might be iffy. I've had Campbells and homemade chicken stock, but I stay away from bouillion. Tuna is fine. I don't know about clams. Getting "sick" on canned clams doesn't sound like a hypertensive reaction. Those usually involve an intense headache. Perhaps the clams were bad?
Hope you get a positive effect soon. I do best at 60 mg, it seems. I tried 75 mg, but I couldn't tolerate it...insomnia and akathisia.
gg
Posted by strugglingsteve on December 14, 2005, at 11:57:08
In reply to Re: Nardil dosage, food and side effect questions » strugglingsteve, posted by gardenergirl on December 14, 2005, at 10:23:53
Jessica wrote that she got a hypertensive headache and a reaction to those clams. Do you eatclam chowder at restaurans or other canned fish?
Posted by gardenergirl on December 14, 2005, at 13:38:03
In reply to Re: Nardil dosage, food and side effect questions, posted by strugglingsteve on December 14, 2005, at 11:57:08
Not at restaurants, it's not something I typically order, though. Before I order anything, except maybe a basic burger or something similar, I present a card with the no-no list and ask them to check to see if the item is safe for me. That seems to work out well.
gg
Posted by strugglingsteve on December 14, 2005, at 13:47:01
In reply to Re: Nardil dosage, food and side effect questions » strugglingsteve, posted by gardenergirl on December 14, 2005, at 13:38:03
Hey GG, first off thanks for replying. Next question is did your side effects take a while to show up or were they right away. I am at 30 right now for a week and no side effects so far and am wondering if they show after a couple weeks, I read that on a post somewhere before....
Posted by gibber on December 14, 2005, at 21:56:28
In reply to Nardil dosage, food and side effect questions, posted by strugglingsteve on December 14, 2005, at 0:40:42
Steve,
I'm struck by the similar situation we are in. I've been at 45mg nardil for a few days now, 1.5 weeks total trial. I haven't had any side-effects yet, except for somnolence during the day. I think this is due to REM suppression, but I heard this should recover in a few months. I had Progresso chicken soup and clam chowder the other day and I had no trouble. I'm a big guy so I hope the higher doses will be effective, so far no response. Good luck to you. Keep us posted.
Posted by Tomatheus on December 16, 2005, at 1:07:11
In reply to Nardil dosage, food and side effect questions, posted by strugglingsteve on December 14, 2005, at 0:40:42
Steve,
The two most noticeable side effects I've experienced so far have been sleep disturbance and hypotension. At the lower doses (15mg/day and 30mg/day), I usually slept a full eight hours with minimal interruption, and I did not experience any difficulty waking up, which I normally do. So, it was basically an improvement over how I normally sleep. At 45 mg/day, I found that I needed less sleep (usually 5-7 hours a night), and I noticed that my sleep was becoming more interrupted. And when I'd wake up in the middle of the night, I would sometimes have difficulty falling back asleep. Since I've increased the dose even higher (first to 60mg/day, and more recently to 75 mg/day), the sleep problems have become even worse.
As far as the hypotension is concerned, I noticed it a little from the very beginning (15mg/day), but it has become more bothersome in recent weeks (especially since going up to 75mg/day a little more than a week ago). Basically, I feel really lightheaded if I'm laying down (or sometimes sitting down) and then proceed to abruptly stand up. It's not really that bothersome (and neither are the even less noticeable side effects like slight constipation and slight urinary retention), but what's annoying is that Nardil has done next to nothing for my depression in more than 10 1/2 weeks of taking it, and all I have are the side effects.
What's even worse is that I have to wait several weeks to see how the Nardil is going to affect me at each dose. It's been so ineffective up until now that I'm skeptical that another three weeks at 75mg/day and another four weeks or so at 90mg/day will lead to an improvement for me, but I'm running low on options, so I'm giving it a chance -- for now. And of course, remember that just because Nardil isn't working very well for me doesn't mean that it won't work for you. Some of those who post here have found it to be amazingly effective, so hopefully your response will be more like theirs and less like mine.
Tomatheus
> I just started on nardil last week and am going slow per my doctor. I will be at 45 mg by this weekend and am wondering if that can be an effective dose for depression and anxiety. I have read where some posters were doing fine at 45 but most needed at least 60. As for side effects, not really getting any which is rare for me, so do they take time to show up or would they hit once you take them at a certain dosage? Last question, food topics, bacon, clam chowder and chicken soup at a restaurant. I have read some posters say regular bacon is ok, is it? What about chicken soup at a deli restaurant? Jessica Rosenberg wrote that she got sick on clam chowder that used smoked canned clams, is canned fish ok or not, I read on here that tuna is ok so why not canned clams???
Posted by ed_uk on December 17, 2005, at 14:49:54
In reply to Re: Nardil dosage, food and side effect questions » strugglingsteve, posted by Tomatheus on December 16, 2005, at 1:07:11
Hi T
Many people who don't respond to Nardil do very well on Parnate. The reverse is also true.
Ed
Posted by Tomatheus on December 17, 2005, at 21:58:11
In reply to Re: Nardil dosage, food and side effect questions » Tomatheus, posted by ed_uk on December 17, 2005, at 14:49:54
Ed,
Thanks for your message. I am definitely considering Parnate, even though it's a little more dopaminergic than I'd prefer. Of course, the way meds work in reality often work at least somewhat differently than they're supposed to "on paper."
I will definitely discuss the possibility of a full Parnate trial with my pdoc soon (I tried taking it once but stopped very prematurely because the afternoon sedation was interfering with my schoolwork), unless of course the Nardil happens to surprisingly kick in at 75mg or 90mg.
Thanks again,
Tomatheus> Hi T
>
> Many people who don't respond to Nardil do very well on Parnate. The reverse is also true.
>
> Ed
>
Posted by Chairman_MAO on December 18, 2005, at 11:58:39
In reply to Nardil dosage, food and side effect questions, posted by strugglingsteve on December 14, 2005, at 0:40:42
In general, the optimal dose of phenelzine is around 1mg/kg per day given in divided doses, preferably three times daily. Anorgasmia/sexual dysfunction took about 7-8 months to resolve for me. I still prefer Nardil + testosterone; I actually feel more competent and functional in bed on this combination than I did off of all drugs.
DO NOT GIVE UP due to side effects for at LEAST four months!
Posted by gibber on December 18, 2005, at 12:24:40
In reply to Re: Nardil dosage, food and side effect questions, posted by Chairman_MAO on December 18, 2005, at 11:58:39
Chairman,
I haven't seen you around in a little while. After you stopped Nardil and then got back on you said you were having great results with the med. Is that still true? Has it left all the depression behind you? Is the testosterone prescribed by your doc or do you get it in other ways? I don't have any sexual sides right now but I'm at 45mg. Are you at 90mg?Thanks for any info!
Regan
Posted by Jedi on December 24, 2005, at 4:45:38
In reply to Re: Nardil dosage, food and side effect questions » strugglingsteve, posted by Tomatheus on December 16, 2005, at 1:07:11
> The two most noticeable side effects I've experienced so far have been sleep disturbance and hypotension. ...
Hi,
When I first started Nardil I had some orthostatic hypotension but that was one side effect that went away pretty much completely with time. In fact Nardil seems to help control my borderline hypertension and has kept me off the beta-blockers. Usually my normal BP on Nardil is about 132/78 which is OK for an obese man of 280 Lbs. Some of the weight was put on because of the atypical depression, but a lot was due to medication. I thought I had the insomnia under control, but since adding the Omega-3s: EPA/DHA of 2000/1600mg I've been fighting it again. I'm pretty sure the insomnia will go away again in time. Anyway, I've reduced my Nardil from 90mg to 75mg. I'll see how that does. Has anybody found a medication to help with the carb cravings on Nardil. The only thing that has helped me is intense exercise, and I don't always have the two hours per day to get this done.
Jedi
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