![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pseudoname on November 21, 2005, at 22:13:08
Does anybody else find opioids awakening? The past 4 times I've tried buprenorphine I've found that although I'm tired & sleepy & lying in bed with my eyes closed, I'm wakeful in my head.
I see in the literatue that opioids reduce REM and that mu agonists especially do this (bupe has mu agonists). Also, long-term use leads to insomnia. But these aren't quite my situation.
I also see that "Oddly enough, little is known about the effects on sleep of commonly administered analgesics" including opioids.
Anybody else get woke up by opioids?
Posted by Declan on November 22, 2005, at 3:48:25
In reply to opioids and sleeplessness, posted by pseudoname on November 21, 2005, at 22:13:08
Opioids can both induce sleep and cause the state you describe. It's dose related and depends on the particular opiate. The commonest initial effect with a decent one is to feel almost asleep and yet awake at the same time. I haven't taken bupe so dunno, but is it stimulatory, more so than the others?
The sleeplessness/opiate thing could be an indication to reduce the dose a little.
Declan
Posted by pseudoname on November 22, 2005, at 9:39:42
In reply to Re: opioids and sleeplessness » pseudoname, posted by Declan on November 22, 2005, at 3:48:25
> The commonest initial effect with a decent one is to feel almost asleep and yet awake at the same time
That's interesting. By "initial effect" do you mean that this goes away with tolerance or that the effect happens right after taking it?
I'm hoping the keep-me-awake-in-bed aspect will go away with tolerance.
> I haven't taken bupe so dunno, but is it stimulatory, more so than the others?
I have no opioids to compare it to, but buprenorphine seems cognitively stimulatory in the way that Adderall is. I feel some of the same warm-fuzzy feelings and a desire to focus or concentrate or something. But it's much milder and smoother than the stimulants I've tried. Adderall for me goes PEAK!-pit-PEAK!-pit-PEAK!-pit in the span of 1.2 seconds.
> could be an indication to reduce the dose a little
I expect to need to increase the dose (now at 0.2mg/day) for depression, so I'm taking it early morning and hoping the bedtime wakefulness subsides...
Posted by Declan on November 22, 2005, at 11:43:24
In reply to opioid stimulation » Declan, posted by pseudoname on November 22, 2005, at 9:39:42
Yeah, I mean that this effect is the result of an intoxication that your body has not yet built up tolerance to. The keeping you in bed awake thing should go away with tolerance, but I don't know much about it.
I know when given for opiate maintenance that bupe can be given in a 3 times a week doseage. I dunno if that's ideal, but it suggests a very long acting drug.
Bupe has a reputation for avoiding the depression associated with methadone, and so I'm not surprised that it's a little stimulatory. All opiates, all decent ones, took me out of my frozen state, so they felt like stimulants, only as you say, so much more stable. And bupe is not so difficult to get off. I think it's worth a try. Opioids are in a class of their own, IMO.
Declan
Posted by platinumbride on November 24, 2005, at 14:37:08
In reply to opioid stimulation » Declan, posted by pseudoname on November 22, 2005, at 9:39:42
I actually pop a few tramadol or vicodin when i need to get stuff done or to go to the gym....
my eyes do feel as if they want to close, but they don't want to when i lie down, so i just use the energy...
that's where it is for now.....that's how i control symptoms of depression
Diane
Posted by pseudoname on November 24, 2005, at 19:58:59
In reply to Re: opioid stimulation, posted by platinumbride on November 24, 2005, at 14:37:08
> I actually pop a few tramadol or vicodin when i need to get stuff done or to go to the gym..
That's interesting. I'm just starting, so I'll be curious to see how the buprenorphine affects me as I get used to it and get up to a higher dose. Adderall stimulates me mentally, but it never gives me the kind of energy "to get stuff done or go to the gym."
Diane, do you use opioids infrequently (a couple times a week or less often)? I guess I'm wondering if tolerance to the desirable stimulating effect builds up like it usually does with amphetamines...
Posted by platinumbride on November 25, 2005, at 9:07:05
In reply to interesting » platinumbride, posted by pseudoname on November 24, 2005, at 19:58:59
Yes, Psuedoname, I do try to limit my use of the stuff, because tolereance develops quickly.
Good luck to you with all this....
DIane
> > I actually pop a few tramadol or vicodin when i need to get stuff done or to go to the gym..
>
> That's interesting. I'm just starting, so I'll be curious to see how the buprenorphine affects me as I get used to it and get up to a higher dose. Adderall stimulates me mentally, but it never gives me the kind of energy "to get stuff done or go to the gym."
>
> Diane, do you use opioids infrequently (a couple times a week or less often)? I guess I'm wondering if tolerance to the desirable stimulating effect builds up like it usually does with amphetamines...
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.