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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bigcat on October 25, 2005, at 10:56:53
Dexedrine has worked well for me in the past, but lately I get so increadibly compulsive when restarting it. I bite my gums incessantly, roll my eyes, and my muscles feel sore, constricted and fatigued, like the feeling of lactic acid buildup when you're exercising intensely. I feel out of breath walking up stairs or mopping the floor. I remember having some of these symtoms when trying the Dexedrine for the first time, but I don't recall them being so aggravated and intolerable. It feels like I always have to move or pick at a body part. I'm wondering if these symptoms may be related to changes in blood pressure, and if meds like pindolol and/or atenolol would combat these symptoms. I'm also considering valium or klonopin, possibly even Luvox (??).
The first time I tried Dexedrine at a high dose for depression/lethargy/cognitive impairment, I recall having some of this OCD and tension but not nearly as severe as now, and they seemed to go away with time in relation to my depression lifting. But I'm at the point now where it seems impossible to stay on the Dexedrine, even though I know it worked so well for me in the past. I can't recall exactly how we raised the dose (I was on Nardil concurrently), but it was bearable at the time, and eventually these agitated symptopms went away.
I'm also curious if you need to be on Dexedrine for an extended period before it starts fighting off the depression. I understand that it's short-acting and largely used on an "as needed" basis for ADD, but maybe for severe depression, it needs to be in your system a while for your body to adjust while the anxiety and agitated hyperstimulation eventually wear off. The shortness of breath is a real issue, and the compulsive ticks are completely out of control. My mind seems so cluttered, impatient, and disorganized. I would say it feels like a "speeded up" and insanely obsessive depression/anxiety. Will this go away, and would blood pressure or other medications combat these side effects so I can tolerate an extended trial of the Dexedrine? Would a stimulant like Adderal or Adrafinil (Provigil) help the depression without the accompanying hyperstimulation, muscle contsriction, and compulsiveness? Perhaps if I raise the dose extremely slowly , I can avoid some of these problems and just be patient while my body adjusts (I think I probably require a very high dose before it starts chopping away at the depression). Sorry for the long and repetative post. Any suggestions?
Much Love,
Matt
Posted by ed_uk on October 25, 2005, at 13:33:37
In reply to Dexedrine/Stimulants making OCD unbearable, posted by bigcat on October 25, 2005, at 10:56:53
Hi Matt,
>Dexedrine has worked well for me in the past, but lately I get so increadibly compulsive when restarting it.
This is called 'sensitisation' - a phenomenon where certain stimulant side effects get worse following repeated exposures to the drug. I think it would be best to discontinue the Dexedrine and try a different drug instead - preferably not another stimulant.
>I'm also curious if you need to be on Dexedrine for an extended period before it starts fighting off the depression.
No, I've never heard that.
Love
~ed
Posted by Declan on October 25, 2005, at 21:44:05
In reply to Dexedrine/Stimulants making OCD unbearable, posted by bigcat on October 25, 2005, at 10:56:53
Hi Matt
Amphetamine turned nasty on me once, terrible feeling of something wound way too tight inside. My feeling from reading your post is that the last thing you need is more dex. I hesitate to say it, but if I was in your shoes I'd probably take opiates, which of course have no end of problems associated with them. Wouldn't recommend methadone though.
love to you too,
Declan
Posted by Sarah T. on October 25, 2005, at 23:38:43
In reply to Dexedrine/Stimulants making OCD unbearable, posted by bigcat on October 25, 2005, at 10:56:53
Hi bigcat,
I agree with the other posters here. It sounds as if Dexedrine is not the right medicine for you right now. That doesn't mean it wasn't helpful in the past, and it doesn't mean it won't work again at some point in the future, but right now, it appears to aggravate your symptoms. Can you speak with your doctor about taking an antidepressant that also alleviates OCD?
Sarah
Posted by bigcat on October 26, 2005, at 9:39:35
In reply to Re: Dexedrine/Stimulants making OCD unbearable » bigcat, posted by Sarah T. on October 25, 2005, at 23:38:43
Hey Sarah,
I've given Luvox and Anafrinil relatively brief trials with no sucess. The Anafrinil was rather neutral, but the Luvox had some nasty start up problems (cranked up anxiety, extreme social paranoia, confusion). I would definately consider trying the Anafrinil again in the future. Part of the reason why exploring this option may be a good idea is because my very first psych symptoms to appear were OCD-related.
About 15 years ago, I started biting my gums, clenching my jaw for the pain it produced, and rolling my eyes. I had many issues related to contamination and tainted thoughts. These symptoms have gradually eased (though they have never gone away completely). I still pick away at my cuticles religiously, adicted to the pain it produces. But my main problem over the past 10 years has been a progressively worsening, and currently all-consuming, depression. However, there may be logic to attacking the depression through OCD-related medications like Anafrinil, since obsessive worrying and ceaseless, circling thought patterns still plague me. And OCD definately seems to have been a precursor for my severe depression. Thanks so much for responding.
-matt-
Posted by Tom Twilight on October 26, 2005, at 9:45:13
In reply to Dexedrine/Stimulants making OCD unbearable, posted by bigcat on October 25, 2005, at 10:56:53
Hey Matt
Sorry to hear your having such a horrible time with Dex
Its a strange difficult med, sometimes I found it really helpful other times I found it hurtfullYou haven't mentioned that you are taking any other meds with the Dex, so I'm going to assume your not on anything else.
If this is the case then I would suggest you could try adding something to help with the OCD, rather than simply discontinueing the Dex
(I should mention here that I don't suffer from OCD, although I did when I was a child, between 9-12, I still have some OCD characteristics like obsesive thought patterns)
I found that Dex combined fairly well with Clomipramine.
The two meds worked together fairly well, the Clomipramine worked great for anxiety (although not social anxiety) and sleep.
Unfortunatly it also made me lethargic and fatiguedDexedrine counteracted the lethagy and fatigue, while the Clomiprame stopped me experiencing the anxiety I would normally experience with the Dex!
The combination also worked well for social anxiety.Infact the Clomipramine seemded to potentiate the Dex, perhapse because of its anti Colligenic affects.
Clomipramie has a lot of side effects, but you could try another OCD med like Fluvoxamine instead
Good luck
Posted by bigcat on October 26, 2005, at 9:56:33
In reply to Re: Dexedrine/Stimulants making OCD unbearable, posted by Declan on October 25, 2005, at 21:44:05
> Hi Matt
> Amphetamine turned nasty on me once, terrible feeling of something wound way too tight inside. My feeling from reading your post is that the last thing you need is more dex. I hesitate to say it, but if I was in your shoes I'd probably take opiates, which of course have no end of problems associated with them. Wouldn't recommend methadone though.
> love to you too,Declan My Man:
As painful as it is, I realize that I must give up the Dexedrine at this point. Thanks for driving that point home. I'm currently exploring Nardil combo options. When you say opiates, are you referring to Valium and Klonapin (not sure of the distinction between benzos and opiates). In the past, these have never done much for my anxiety and social unease. If I take enough, I'll go to sleep, but they have never helped take the edge off or allowed me to function better. What do you think about combining Nardil with another (possibly low-dose, or milder side- effect profile) stimulant IN CONJUNCTION with something like Valium to ease that "tightness" you refer to? It may not help with anxiety per say, but perhaps it could reduce the nasty physical agitation I get with stimulants. Thanks for your help bro.-matt-
Posted by ed_uk on October 26, 2005, at 13:58:45
In reply to Re: Dexedrine/Stimulants making OCD unbearable » Declan, posted by bigcat on October 26, 2005, at 9:56:33
Hi Matt,
>When you say opiates, are you referring to Valium and Klonapin (not sure of the distinction between benzos and opiates).
Diazepam (Valium) and clonazepam (Klonopin) are benzodiazepine anti-anxiety drugs. Opiates are very different. Morphine and codeine are opiates.
~ed
Posted by bigcat on October 26, 2005, at 19:57:07
In reply to Dexedrine-OCD what about adding Clomipramine?, posted by Tom Twilight on October 26, 2005, at 9:45:13
> Hey Matt
>
Hey Tommy T.!> Sorry to hear your having such a horrible time with Dex
> Its a strange difficult med, sometimes I found it really helpful other times I found it hurtfull
>
> You haven't mentioned that you are taking any other meds with the Dex, so I'm going to assume your not on anything else.Actually, I'm currently on Nardil as well, and am considering some different combination/augmentation options which some insightful people on this board have suggested. I had a surprisingly great response to the Dex/Nardil combo a few months back (after YEARS of various trials which didn't provide any relief). When I went off it (long story), I didn't experience any withdrawal or crash surprisingly. For some reason, it was benign on my system. Since restarting the Dex (which I've tried a few times now) following this great remission, I've been SOOO hyperstimulated and compulsive, which hadn't occured nearly this severely when taking the Dex 6 months back.
>
> If this is the case then I would suggest you could try adding something to help with the OCD, rather than simply discontinueing the Dex
>
> (I should mention here that I don't suffer from OCD, although I did when I was a child, between 9-12, I still have some OCD characteristics like obsesive thought patterns)My history and current situation matches that entirely.
>> I found that Dex combined fairly well with Clomipramine.
> The two meds worked together fairly well, the Clomipramine worked great for anxiety (although not social anxiety) and sleep.
> Unfortunatly it also made me lethargic and fatigued
>
> Dexedrine counteracted the lethagy and fatigue, while the Clomiprame stopped me experiencing the anxiety I would normally experience with the Dex!> The combination also worked well for social anxiety.
>
> Infact the Clomipramine seemded to potentiate the Dex, perhapse because of its anti Colligenic affects.Very interesting. Something to consider, although the Dex muscle twitches, ticks, and overall physical discomfort are unbearable at this point (even at just 10mgs a day. When it gave me such a great AD effect, I was on 90mgs believe it or not, and didn't have these symptoms, or they were much milder and soon passed. So strange). I think I need to drop the Dex for now, and if I give it another trial in the future, I'll be armed with some combo strategies you suggested to combat this exhausting and totally out of control hyperstimulation (without an accompanying antidepressant or mental acuteness effect this time). I think the Anafrinal idea holds a great deal of promise for the future. I didn't mention that the Dex compulsiveness is paired with ridiculous obsessing (I get a song in my head and don't have a single thought for the rest of the day free from endlessly repeating the same verse in my head for hours on end. It truly is unbearable).
>
> Clomipramie has a lot of side effects, but you could try another OCD med like Fluvoxamine insteadThe Luvox gave me some start-up problems which made me drop it (exacerbated social phobia bordering on paranoia, debilitating self-consciousness/hypervigilance). I tried it recently after Serzone (which hadn't worked for me in the past) seemed to work very well initially and then quickly went in the other direction and brought the anxiety way up. (I guess these two drugs share some characteristics ??)
>
> Good luckGracias Amigo, I appreciate your thoughts and the valuable personal experience you shared... If I remember correctly, you were having difficulties getting a doc to prescribe you Marplan doses above 30mgs, which is totally ridiculous. Drop me an email (mlieb@wesleyan.edu) if you want to discuss this, as I've had some high-dose Marplan experience.
-matt-
Posted by bigcat on October 26, 2005, at 20:07:47
In reply to Re: Dexedrine/Stimulants making OCD unbearable » bigcat, posted by ed_uk on October 26, 2005, at 13:58:45
> Hi Matt,
>
> >When you say opiates, are you referring to Valium and Klonapin (not sure of the distinction between benzos and opiates).
>
> Diazepam (Valium) and clonazepam (Klonopin) are benzodiazepine anti-anxiety drugs. Opiates are very different. Morphine and codeine are opiates.Ahh, I see. Not sure if I want to go down that avenue right now; as Declan mentioned (and I would naturally assume), these meds have their share of accompanying headaches. Street opium did provide me once with quite a remarkable body high. I've NEVER been that phsysically comfortable and at ease (it was mind-blowing), and can see why you would suggest that option to combat my current situation.
> ~ed
Thanks Again :)
Posted by Sarah T. on October 27, 2005, at 0:48:09
In reply to Dexedrine-OCD what about adding Clomipramine?, posted by Tom Twilight on October 26, 2005, at 9:45:13
Hi Tom,
Clomipramine is a tricyclic, right? If so, I would suggest that combining it with dexedrine should be done very slowly and cautiously. I know some people don't have problems with med combos, but then there are others who are very sensitive to certain combinations. I am one of the latter group. I'm pretty sure that there is a warning in the PDR about tricyclic + stimulant combinations causing sustained blood pressure elevations. Just be careful.S.
Posted by Sarah T. on October 27, 2005, at 1:05:28
In reply to Re: Dexedrine-OCD what about adding Clomipramine? » Tom Twilight, posted by bigcat on October 26, 2005, at 19:57:07
Hi bigcat,
Have you had a complete and thorough physical exam lately just to rule out anything else that might be contributing to some of the symptoms you have?
It's so odd that you experienced those symptoms on 10 mg of dexedrine but not on 90! Also, have these intolerable symptoms occurred with just one "batch" of dexedrine, or have they occurred over several batches and/or lot numbers? When I was on Dexedrine, I got a bad batch twice over a period of about five years. The second time it happened, I had some symptoms similar to some of yours, including twitches. I had extreme anxiety and no antidepressant effect. Actually, it felt as if the dexedrine had been mixed with something else that was much too stimulating. Do you happen to have the lot number of the last batch you got? I'd be interested to see whether it was the same lot number that caused those symptoms for me. Were you prescribed the proprietary brand (i.e., the name brand) of Dexedrine by Glaxo, Smith, Kline or was it generic? Were they 5 mg tablets? If you don't know the lot number, can you go to the pharmacy and ask for the lot number before they throw the bottle out? Actually, they should keep a record of the lot number and expiration date, but that probably depends on the state you're in.
Sarah
Posted by ed_uk on October 28, 2005, at 14:47:59
In reply to Re: Dexedrine/Stimulants making OCD unbearable » ed_uk, posted by bigcat on October 26, 2005, at 20:07:47
Hi Matt,
I don't respond that well to benzos either. 30mg diazepam (Valium) is calming though :-)
~Ed
This is the end of the thread.
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