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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ed_uk on September 9, 2005, at 16:07:57
Vitamin B and folic acid do not reduce risk of MI and stroke
A combination of high-dose vitamin B6 and folic acid may increase the risk of myocardial infarction and stroke in MI survivors, according to the Norwegian Vitamin Trial (NORVIT) reported this week at the European Society of Cardiology annual congress. The findings effectively end the hope that taking a folic-acid/B-vitamin combination to lower homocysteine levels might prevent cardiovascular events.
NORVIT randomised 3,749 post-MI patients, aged 30 to 84, to four treatment options: a combination of folic acid and vitamin B6; folic acid; vitamin B6; or placebo. Doses were 0.8mg daily for folic acid and 40mg daily for vitamin B6. (In addition, 0.4mg of vitamin B12 was given with the folic acid dose.)
Results showed that the combination of vitamin B6 and folic acid, as well as folic acid alone, reduced homocysteine levels by 28 per cent. However, the supplements failed to reduce cardiovascular risk. After 3.5 years of follow-up, the risk of stroke and MI was 18 per cent in the placebo group, with a similar risk in those given folic acid alone and in those given vitamin B6 alone. The risk was higher in the combination group, with 23 per cent of patients suffering a fatal or non-fatal stroke or MI, representing a statistically significant absolute increase of 5 per cent compared with the other treatment groups (P=0.029).
Results also showed a trend toward an increased incidence in cancer among patients taking high-dose folic acid.
Posted by KaraS on September 9, 2005, at 18:04:27
In reply to Bad news RE the B vitamins, posted by ed_uk on September 9, 2005, at 16:07:57
> Vitamin B and folic acid do not reduce risk of MI and stroke
>
> A combination of high-dose vitamin B6 and folic acid may increase the risk of myocardial infarction and stroke in MI survivors, according to the Norwegian Vitamin Trial (NORVIT) reported this week at the European Society of Cardiology annual congress. The findings effectively end the hope that taking a folic-acid/B-vitamin combination to lower homocysteine levels might prevent cardiovascular events.
>
> NORVIT randomised 3,749 post-MI patients, aged 30 to 84, to four treatment options: a combination of folic acid and vitamin B6; folic acid; vitamin B6; or placebo. Doses were 0.8mg daily for folic acid and 40mg daily for vitamin B6. (In addition, 0.4mg of vitamin B12 was given with the folic acid dose.)
>
> Results showed that the combination of vitamin B6 and folic acid, as well as folic acid alone, reduced homocysteine levels by 28 per cent. However, the supplements failed to reduce cardiovascular risk. After 3.5 years of follow-up, the risk of stroke and MI was 18 per cent in the placebo group, with a similar risk in those given folic acid alone and in those given vitamin B6 alone. The risk was higher in the combination group, with 23 per cent of patients suffering a fatal or non-fatal stroke or MI, representing a statistically significant absolute increase of 5 per cent compared with the other treatment groups (P=0.029).
>
> Results also showed a trend toward an increased incidence in cancer among patients taking high-dose folic acid.
>
Major bummer!!! I take B vitamins as I believe I need more of them because of all of the stress I'm under but how do I know how much I really need and how much is too much here?k
Posted by ed_uk on September 10, 2005, at 2:14:39
In reply to Re: Bad news RE the B vitamins » ed_uk, posted by KaraS on September 9, 2005, at 18:04:27
Hi K,
My advice would be to limit your B6 intake to 10mg/day and your folic acid intake to 400mcg/day.
~Ed
Posted by Nickengland on September 10, 2005, at 5:08:04
In reply to Re: Bad news RE the B vitamins » KaraS, posted by ed_uk on September 10, 2005, at 2:14:39
Hi Ed!
>My advice would be to limit your B6 intake to 10mg/day and your folic acid intake to 400mcg/day.
I take a B-Vitamin complex (B-50) which contains 50mg of all the standard b vitamins, although the folic acid dose is 400mcg.
Within that dose it has 50mg of B6....Also I've got separate vitamin B6 tablets which are 50mg. I sometimes take one of those with the complex at night as it gives good dreams for some reason..
Do you think its harmful?
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by ed_uk on September 10, 2005, at 7:09:59
In reply to Re: Bad news RE the B vitamins » ed_uk, posted by Nickengland on September 10, 2005, at 5:08:04
Hi Nick!
>Do you think its harmful?
I wouldn't take 50mg B6 myself, I think it's probably excessive. I think it's best to avoid mega-dosing vitamins unless they're clearly beneficial. 50mg B6 is probably safe in the short term but I don't think it's safe in the long term.
The B-50 complex contains high doses of all the B vitamins. I'm not sure whether it's a good idea.
Kind regards
~ed
Posted by Nickengland on September 10, 2005, at 9:23:17
In reply to Re: Bad news RE the B vitamins » Nickengland, posted by ed_uk on September 10, 2005, at 7:09:59
Hi Ed!
>I wouldn't take 50mg B6 myself, I think it's probably excessive. I think it's best to avoid mega-dosing vitamins unless they're clearly beneficial. 50mg B6 is probably safe in the short term but I don't think it's safe in the long term.
I would agree that some of these vitamins when taken in large dosages do seem to be unnesassary and like you say slightly excessive :-O With the B6 I tend not to take it on a daily basis as I don't feel the need to, but when I do take it, usually before I go to sleep, it gives me great dream recall (which sometimes I never have) and the dreams arent too vivid....upon waking I feel somewhat better for greeting the day so to speak in my overall health.
Svenseas brand for solely B6 is a 10mg ~ but holland and barret is a minium of 50mg or 100mg!....I dont think I need as much as 100mg lol
>The B-50 complex contains high doses of all the B vitamins. I'm not sure whether it's a good idea.
I used to use the sevenseas 'standard' type b-complex which had rda or lower b dosages, but to behonest I didn't really notice much difference...Holland and barrett do a standard to and do a B-50 and then a B-100! (again I thought I didnt quite need 100mg :-O lol
For me personally I think it does help taking the B-complex as its the stress vitamins and having bipolar, I think my need for these I greatly increased and I do crave foods which contain these vitamins ~ that said I think with an average person without a serious mental illness I dont think there would be a need so much.
Do you think its more of a wise idea if you are taking high dosages of vitamins and you are gaining benefits from them, perhaps its a good idea to take them once every few days and have breaks during week?
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by ed_uk on September 10, 2005, at 10:23:36
In reply to Re: Bad news RE the B vitamins » ed_uk, posted by Nickengland on September 10, 2005, at 9:23:17
Hi Nick,
>With the B6 I tend not to take it on a daily basis as I don't feel the need to.....
.....but do you take the B50 complex every day?
>Do you think its more of a wise idea if you are taking high dosages of vitamins and you are gaining benefits from them, perhaps its a good idea to take them once every few days and have breaks during week?
I don't think you need to take breaks unless the dose is excessive. Have you seen any B-complexes containing 10mg B6 (pyridoxine)?
>B50 complex
It's great that you're benefitting. I was thinking of trying a B complex but I can only find ones with either....
1. Massive doses of B6..........
or 2. RDA doses which are too low to make a difference - I've already tried this.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by Nickengland on September 10, 2005, at 14:36:09
In reply to Re: Bad news RE the B vitamins » Nickengland, posted by ed_uk on September 10, 2005, at 10:23:36
Hello Ed,
.....but do you take the B50 complex every day?
No not everyday. When I take the B-50 complex, on that day I will take the B6 too. On average I would say I take the B-50 and B6 no more than 5 days a week, sometimes maybe 3 or 4 days. (quite evenly spread out, depending how I feel) A couple of times I've just taken the B6 by itself and it was still effective ~ but I hear its good to take a complex if you're taking 1 single b vitamin. I've just recently started with the b-50 and b6 50mg during the past few weeks..
>or 2. RDA doses which are too low to make a difference - I've already tried this.
I know what you mean, when I was taking the sevenseas brand b complex before on a daily basis, I didnt really feel any different from it at all ~ the dosages are so low, the B6 in that was 2mg.
>Have you seen any B-complexes containing 10mg B6 (pyridoxine)?
Yep theres this one from holland & barrett. Each tablet contains 5mg of pyridoxine, but the directions are to take 2 daily making 10mg. Heres what each tablet contains...
Complete B Vitamin B Complex tablets:
Thiamin (Vitamin B1)..........5mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2).......7.5mg
Niacin........................12.5mg
Pantothenic Acid..............50mg
Vitamin B6....................5mg *
Vitamin B12...................12.5µg
Folic Acid....................200µg
Biotin........................50µg
Choline Bitartrate............125mg
Inositol......................125mg
PABA..........................25mgKind regards
Nick
Posted by gardenergirl on September 10, 2005, at 14:43:42
In reply to Re: Bad news RE the B vitamins » ed_uk, posted by Nickengland on September 10, 2005, at 14:36:09
Hmmm,
I take a pre-natal vitamin (no, I'm not pregnant), in order to get enough folic acid. I also take a B-comp, 50 mg, since I take Nardil. It seems to help with hyperreflexia, although I'm not sure why. So I'm likely getting a lot more folic acid than I need to guard against spina bifida should I ever become pregnant.Don't we just excrete the excess vitamins?
gg
Posted by ed_uk on September 10, 2005, at 14:46:47
In reply to Re: Bad news RE the B vitamins » ed_uk, posted by Nickengland on September 10, 2005, at 14:36:09
Hi Nick,
>Complete B Vitamin B Complex tablets:
Thiamin (Vitamin B1)..........5mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2).......7.5mg
Niacin........................12.5mg
Pantothenic Acid..............50mg
Vitamin B6....................5mg *
Vitamin B12...................12.5µg
Folic Acid....................200µg
Biotin........................50µg
Choline Bitartrate............125mg
Inositol......................125mg
PABA..........................25mgThank you :-)
~Ed
Posted by KaraS on September 10, 2005, at 17:25:36
In reply to Re: Bad news RE the B vitamins » KaraS, posted by ed_uk on September 10, 2005, at 2:14:39
This is the end of the thread.
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