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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ed_uk on August 24, 2005, at 16:41:05
See.......
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4173078.stm
~Ed
Posted by Ilene on August 24, 2005, at 17:56:00
In reply to New class of psych drug, posted by ed_uk on August 24, 2005, at 16:41:05
Cool! Thanks.
I.
Posted by linkadge on August 24, 2005, at 19:00:22
In reply to Re: New class of psych drug » ed_uk, posted by Ilene on August 24, 2005, at 17:56:00
Ampakines also modulate the expression of BDNF. Ginkgo modulates certain AMPA receptors.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 24, 2005, at 19:03:34
In reply to Re: New class of psych drug » ed_uk, posted by Ilene on August 24, 2005, at 17:56:00
AMpakines also potentiate standard antidepressants in certain paradigms.
I don't know if paracitams action's are at all linked to ampakines.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on August 24, 2005, at 19:09:03
In reply to Re: New class of psych drug, posted by linkadge on August 24, 2005, at 19:03:34
Hey Ed! That's the first place I went for the smell and taste and Chemist has some sort of license there still and a lot of friends. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by KaraS on August 24, 2005, at 20:57:38
In reply to New class of psych drug, posted by ed_uk on August 24, 2005, at 16:41:05
> See.......
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4173078.stm
>
> ~Ed
I wonder if there would be any problem with neurotoxicity by making glutamate available longer.k
Posted by jerrympls on August 25, 2005, at 1:19:22
In reply to New class of psych drug, posted by ed_uk on August 24, 2005, at 16:41:05
> See.......
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4173078.stm
>
> ~EdHey thanks Ed for the link!!
Jerry ;-)
Posted by Shawn. T. on August 25, 2005, at 15:17:25
In reply to Re: New class of psych drug, posted by linkadge on August 24, 2005, at 19:03:34
Both ampakines and piracetam positively modulate glutamate AMPA receptors. Piracetam has some other effects, so it's less selective.
Shawn
Posted by SLS on August 25, 2005, at 17:36:26
In reply to Re: New class of psych drug » linkadge, posted by Shawn. T. on August 25, 2005, at 15:17:25
> Both ampakines and piracetam positively modulate glutamate AMPA receptors. Piracetam has some other effects, so it's less selective.
Does levetiracetam have similar effects?
- Scott
Posted by Shawn. T. on August 25, 2005, at 18:04:58
In reply to Re: New class of psych drug » Shawn. T., posted by SLS on August 25, 2005, at 17:36:26
>> Both ampakines and piracetam positively modulate glutamate AMPA receptors. Piracetam has some other effects, so it's less selective.
>Does levetiracetam have similar effects?
No
-Shawn
Posted by linkadge on August 26, 2005, at 6:39:56
In reply to Re: New class of psych drug » linkadge, posted by Shawn. T. on August 25, 2005, at 15:17:25
Cool thanks.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 26, 2005, at 6:44:57
In reply to Re: New class of psych drug » ed_uk, posted by KaraS on August 24, 2005, at 20:57:38
I think it is funny that a drug like this has some antidepressant properties, and at the same time glutamate *antagonists* also posess antidepressant properties.
Linkadge
Posted by SJW on August 29, 2005, at 7:14:26
In reply to Re: New class of psych drug » KaraS, posted by linkadge on August 26, 2005, at 6:44:57
Hi all,
Some animal studies have shown that one action of the NMDA receptor antagonists(MK-801,PCP) is that of AMPA receptor potentiator, especially in the prefrontal cortex.The NMDA antagonist(Dextromethorphan) was the main ingredient of a cocktail that has thus far been the only thing that actually corrected(100%) my treatment resistant(defiant) depression, anxiety, chronic fatigue and cognitive decline. But unfortunately there are many risks and side effects that forced me to halt further treatment with that class of drugs.
So, I will be the first in line when and if Ampakines pass the clinical trials and meet FDA approval.
As a side note; Cortex Pharmaceuticals was the first that I know of to discover/design "Ampakines" and Servier for what it's worth is a financial supporter of Cortex.Steve
Posted by ed_uk on August 29, 2005, at 7:30:20
In reply to Re: New class of psych drug, posted by SJW on August 29, 2005, at 7:14:26
Hi Steve,
Welcome to p-babble and thank you for sharing your story :-)
>The NMDA antagonist(Dextromethorphan) was the main ingredient of a cocktail that has thus far been the only thing that actually corrected(100%) my treatment resistant(defiant) depression, anxiety, chronic fatigue and cognitive decline. But unfortunately there are many risks and side effects that forced me to halt further treatment with that class of drugs.
What dose did you take and what side effects did you suffer? What other medications do you take?
Have you tried memantine and/or amantadine? - both NMDA antagonists
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by SJW on August 29, 2005, at 15:55:47
In reply to Calling Scott (SLS) and Emme-you'll be interested » SJW, posted by ed_uk on August 29, 2005, at 7:30:20
Hi Ed,
thanks for the welcome.> What dose did you take and what side effects did you suffer? What other medications do you take?
It's been just over two years since I stopped the dextromethorphan cocktail. Let me preface this by saying that in hindsight my dosing schedule was irresponsible and dangerous... I found, for me, that 420mg dextromethorphan-polistirex was the minimum dose that had psychoactivity. At fisrt(about 3-4 days) the short-term memerory deficit was profound. I was already taking 20mg Adderall bid, 20mg famotidine bid, 2000mg Omegabrite(= approx 1250mg EPA & 550mg DHA) bid and 500mg niacinamide bid. I worked up to 600mg of dextromethorphan, then 720mg. When I hit 960mg(total remmision) my gait, then speech became noticably impaired and the urinary hesitancy was problematic. This is when I decided that I was doing more harm than good and ceased that protocol(after approx 4 wks in total). The negative effects luckily dissipated after 2-3 days and the antidepressant effect lasted approx 4-5 days.
I belive that MK-801,ketamine or PCP would have produced similar results, but that's pure speculation.
Also, on this regime I believe I felt a bit too good, slightly manic perhaps.
> Have you tried memantine and/or amantadine? - both NMDA antagonistsYes, both. It was a few months later. First memantine, up to 30mg bid, didn't have much effect with or without Adderall. After two weeks I added sertraline for its SSRI and sigma receptor activity. I quickly worked up to 200mg q.d., but nothing positive transpired.
Amantadine, first alone 100mg bid for about five days. Then 200mg and finally 300mg bid over the peroid of about 3-4 weeks. Again the effect was mild, somewhat stimulating in a basic kind of way.
The rebound depression it produced on some days was not basic in its nature however. The Adderall
and sertraline didn't help.I still have many more meds that I want to try.
Right now I take:
Parnate 40mg bid
Depakote 250mg bidI have a theory(ies) as to why some NMDA antagonists have profound antidepressant activity, but now it's a matter of finding something else alone or in combination that can safely affect the same pathway(s).
Steve
Posted by ed_uk on August 29, 2005, at 16:15:16
In reply to Re: Calling Scott (SLS) and Emme-you'll be interes » ed_uk, posted by SJW on August 29, 2005, at 15:55:47
Hi Steve,
Have you visited p-babble in the past? I'm curious.
>I still have many more meds that I want to try.
What would you like to try next? I think you'd be interested in talking to SLS.
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by SJW on August 31, 2005, at 5:27:50
In reply to Re: Calling Scott (SLS) and Emme-you'll be interes » SJW, posted by ed_uk on August 29, 2005, at 16:15:16
> Have you visited p-babble in the past? I'm curious.Hi Ed,
Yes, I’ve visited P-Babble several times over the last two or so years and gleaned some very useful and practical info. I don't know why I haven't felt compelled to participate until now.
> What would you like to try next?
I’m thinking of adding a small dose of Mirapex to the Parnate/Depakote combo - should be interesting.
I think my path to remission necessitates increasing blood flow and glucose utilization in the left prefrontal cortex along with stabilizing activity in the temporal lobes. The NMDA antagonist was able to accomplish this. I just need to find a safe drug(s) that will “hit” enough of the same targets to promote a similar positive effect.
Some things I’d like to try include:
Aniracetam
L-type CCB
Selegiline
Desipramine (revisit)
Bupropion (revisit)
Abilify (revisit at a lower dosage)
Things I have tried:
Campral (acamprosate)
Lamictal
lithium carbonate (low & med dose)
phenytoin
neurontin
clonazepam
Lorazepam
Alprazolam
fluoxetine
paroxetine
Celexa
Effexor
milnacipran
mirtazapine
tianeptine
Strattera
buspirone
imipramine
clomipramine
SAMe (w/supporting nutrients)
low dose naltrexone
Armour thyroid
compounded-extended release T3 (Wilson's syndrome protocol)
Cortef
adrafinil
galantamine
Zyprexa
Seroquel
Risperdal
piracetam
various vitamin and supplement regimesTake care,
Steve
This is the end of the thread.
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