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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by theo on July 17, 2005, at 15:19:23
I've heard it's sometimes used for OCD and other psychiatric uses?
Posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2005, at 22:29:22
In reply to Anyone take Ultram for psychiatric use?, posted by theo on July 17, 2005, at 15:19:23
Isn't this an over the counter pain reliever? Fondly, Phillipa
[error]
Posted by Jakeman on July 18, 2005, at 21:10:39
In reply to Anyone take Ultram for psychiatric use?, posted by theo on July 17, 2005, at 15:19:23
Some people do. Check the posts above and in the archives for tramadol. What is your experience with Ultram?
warm regards ~Jake
Effects of chronic tramadol on pre- and post-synaptic measures of monoamine
function.
Hopwood SE, Owesson CA, Callado LF, McLaughlin DP, Stamford JA.
Academic Department of Anaesthesia and Intensive Care, St Bartholomew's and
The Royal London School of Medicine and Dentistry, Royal London Hospital,
Whitechapel, UK.
The atypical analgesic tramadol has strong structural similarities to the
antidepressant venlafaxine and is a mixed noradrenaline (NA) and serotonin
(5-HT) uptake inhibitor. Because tramadol has been found active in the
forced swim test, a common predictor of antidepressant efficacy, we
therefore examined the effects of chronic tramadol on various pre- and
post-synaptic monoamine measures. Male Wistar rats (150-200 g) received
tramadol (20 mg/kg i.p.) or vehicle for 21 days and were sacrificed 24 h
after the last dose. Quantitative autoradiography revealed that specific
frontocortical [3H]dihydroalprenolol and [3H]ketanserin binding was lower in
the chronic tramadol group than controls (beta: 37+/-8 and 217+/-56 fmol/mg;
5-HT2A: 23+/-3 and 44+/-7 fmol/mg, respectively, p < 0.05). Chronic tramadol
had no effect on the magnitude of electrically stimulated noradrenaline (NA)
efflux or uptake in locus coeruleus (LC) slices. Although dexmedetomidine
(10 nM) decreased LC NA efflux equally (by approximately 60%) in chronic
tramadol and vehicle groups, desipramine (50 nM) increased LC NA efflux more
in vehicle (to 164+/-7%) than tramadol-treated rats (144+/-6%; p < 0.05).
Chronic tramadol had no effect on dorsal raphe (DRN) or median raphe (MRN)
5-HT efflux. However, 5-HT uptake in tramadol-treated rats was slower (p <
0.05) in MRN and nearly so (p = 0.055) in DRN. The selective 5-HT1A agonist
8-OH-DPAT reduced 5-HT efflux in both DRN and MRN. Its effect in DRN was
greater in rats given chronic tramadol than in vehicle controls (54+/-2
versus 32+/-6% reduction in 5-HT efflux, respectively). In conclusion, we
suggest that tramadol has many of the pre- and postsynaptic neurochemical
features of a conventional antidepressant, as might be predicted from its
pharmacology.
Posted by theo on July 19, 2005, at 18:46:09
In reply to Re: Anyone take Ultram for psychiatric use?, posted by Jakeman on July 18, 2005, at 21:10:39
> Some people do. Check the posts above and in the archives for tramadol. What is your experience with Ultram?
>
> warm regards ~Jake
>
> Effects of chronic tramadol on pre- and post-synaptic measures of monoamine
> function.
>
>
> Hopwood SE, Owesson CA, Callado LF, McLaughlin DP, Stamford JA.
>
>
> Academic Department of Anaesthesia and Intensive Care, St Bartholomew's and
> The Royal London School of Medicine and Dentistry, Royal London Hospital,
> Whitechapel, UK.
>
>
> The atypical analgesic tramadol has strong structural similarities to the
> antidepressant venlafaxine and is a mixed noradrenaline (NA) and serotonin
> (5-HT) uptake inhibitor. Because tramadol has been found active in the
> forced swim test, a common predictor of antidepressant efficacy, we
> therefore examined the effects of chronic tramadol on various pre- and
> post-synaptic monoamine measures. Male Wistar rats (150-200 g) received
> tramadol (20 mg/kg i.p.) or vehicle for 21 days and were sacrificed 24 h
> after the last dose. Quantitative autoradiography revealed that specific
> frontocortical [3H]dihydroalprenolol and [3H]ketanserin binding was lower in
> the chronic tramadol group than controls (beta: 37+/-8 and 217+/-56 fmol/mg;
> 5-HT2A: 23+/-3 and 44+/-7 fmol/mg, respectively, p < 0.05). Chronic tramadol
> had no effect on the magnitude of electrically stimulated noradrenaline (NA)
> efflux or uptake in locus coeruleus (LC) slices. Although dexmedetomidine
> (10 nM) decreased LC NA efflux equally (by approximately 60%) in chronic
> tramadol and vehicle groups, desipramine (50 nM) increased LC NA efflux more
> in vehicle (to 164+/-7%) than tramadol-treated rats (144+/-6%; p < 0.05).
> Chronic tramadol had no effect on dorsal raphe (DRN) or median raphe (MRN)
> 5-HT efflux. However, 5-HT uptake in tramadol-treated rats was slower (p <
> 0.05) in MRN and nearly so (p = 0.055) in DRN. The selective 5-HT1A agonist
> 8-OH-DPAT reduced 5-HT efflux in both DRN and MRN. Its effect in DRN was
> greater in rats given chronic tramadol than in vehicle controls (54+/-2
> versus 32+/-6% reduction in 5-HT efflux, respectively). In conclusion, we
> suggest that tramadol has many of the pre- and postsynaptic neurochemical
> features of a conventional antidepressant, as might be predicted from its
> pharmacology.
>
>Wow, similiar to Effexor? I thought Ultram was a pain reliever. I have some samples and was going to try it for shoulder injury, haven't taken it before. If it can help pain and be an AD, what a combo!
Posted by temoigneur on July 19, 2005, at 20:25:48
In reply to Re: Anyone take Ultram for psychiatric use? » Jakeman, posted by theo on July 19, 2005, at 18:46:09
I think Ultram was first used in OCD by a florida psychiatrit, Nathan Shapira - he reports anywhere from a 25 - 65% reduction in OCD symptoms, noting that it has the advantage of being fast acting, can be taken on an as needed basis.
Ultram's has some sort of additional opiate property that distinguishes it from Effexor, I used it for about 8 months, I seemed to have a placebo effect combined with some response at first - I was on 300- 400 mg/day and I must say of all the opiates purported to be helpful in OCD it was the only helpful one for me. I tried morhpine, and other pain killers with no/ very limited success.
Tramadol cleared my thoughts, and allowed me to think more clearly. Due however, only partially to circumstances, I ended up in the hospital with hysterical anxiety on ~250? effexor, and 350 Tramadol + some relatively benign agents IMHO, (neurontin). I think my anxiety just started to spin out of conrol, I tried to do too much, and that was all. I wonder, if under the care of a *knowledgeable* psychiatrist, if it may be beneficial for some - I just don't want to advocate it because of where I ended up. At first it was a minor breakthrough, I could think more coherently, it decreased anxiety - although I always presented with noticeably drained energy. It did partially hold entact my higher level cognition, which the TCA's seem to numb. I talked with Dr. Shapiro -
As it got out of control in my case, and I was never able to consult Dr. Shapiro, I would suggest have your doctor talk with him if possible - UFL, gainseville,
Ben
Posted by ace on July 21, 2005, at 1:23:04
In reply to Re: Anyone take Ultram for psychiatric use?, posted by Jakeman on July 18, 2005, at 21:10:39
> Some people do. Check the posts above and in the archives for tramadol. What is your experience with Ultram?
>
> warm regards ~Jake
>
> Effects of chronic tramadol on pre- and post-synaptic measures of monoamine
> function.
>
>
> Hopwood SE, Owesson CA, Callado LF, McLaughlin DP, Stamford JA.
>
>
> Academic Department of Anaesthesia and Intensive Care, St Bartholomew's and
> The Royal London School of Medicine and Dentistry, Royal London Hospital,
> Whitechapel, UK.
>
>
> The atypical analgesic tramadol has strong structural similarities to the
> antidepressant venlafaxine and is a mixed noradrenaline (NA) and serotonin
> (5-HT) uptake inhibitor. Because tramadol has been found active in the
> forced swim test, a common predictor of antidepressant efficacy, we
> therefore examined the effects of chronic tramadol on various pre- and
> post-synaptic monoamine measures. Male Wistar rats (150-200 g) received
> tramadol (20 mg/kg i.p.) or vehicle for 21 days and were sacrificed 24 h
> after the last dose. Quantitative autoradiography revealed that specific
> frontocortical [3H]dihydroalprenolol and [3H]ketanserin binding was lower in
> the chronic tramadol group than controls (beta: 37+/-8 and 217+/-56 fmol/mg;
> 5-HT2A: 23+/-3 and 44+/-7 fmol/mg, respectively, p < 0.05). Chronic tramadol
> had no effect on the magnitude of electrically stimulated noradrenaline (NA)
> efflux or uptake in locus coeruleus (LC) slices. Although dexmedetomidine
> (10 nM) decreased LC NA efflux equally (by approximately 60%) in chronic
> tramadol and vehicle groups, desipramine (50 nM) increased LC NA efflux more
> in vehicle (to 164+/-7%) than tramadol-treated rats (144+/-6%; p < 0.05).
> Chronic tramadol had no effect on dorsal raphe (DRN) or median raphe (MRN)
> 5-HT efflux. However, 5-HT uptake in tramadol-treated rats was slower (p <
> 0.05) in MRN and nearly so (p = 0.055) in DRN. The selective 5-HT1A agonist
> 8-OH-DPAT reduced 5-HT efflux in both DRN and MRN. Its effect in DRN was
> greater in rats given chronic tramadol than in vehicle controls (54+/-2
> versus 32+/-6% reduction in 5-HT efflux, respectively). In conclusion, we
> suggest that tramadol has many of the pre- and postsynaptic neurochemical
> features of a conventional antidepressant, as might be predicted from its
> pharmacology.
>
>BE CVERY CAREFUL with Tramadol (Ultram) I used it for 3 /4 weeks every second day or so. Tolerance builds quickly. It put me in a state of bliss (Mu-Opioid stimulation) but the rebound depression was hell. One night of bliss isn't worth two days of hell in bed...
Ace
Posted by platinumbride on July 21, 2005, at 15:12:17
In reply to Re: Anyone take Ultram for psychiatric use? » Jakeman, posted by ace on July 21, 2005, at 1:23:04
for me ultram is a lousy pain reliever but it certainly can improve mood.
I have, however, noticed the same thing ACE mentioned. I do feel a little "high" on it, tolerance builds fast, and there is definitely rebound depression for me (which sadly makes me take more within a day or two so i can get relief)
But I don't feel stuck in bed, necessarily. Just really sad.
It also makes my heart race and if i take more than one dose per day, I get the shakes.
Finally, while it makes me feel a bit more energetic, it also makes me want to close my eyes if I am not moving around a lot.
Diane
Posted by 4WD on July 21, 2005, at 21:48:20
In reply to Re: Anyone take Ultram for psychiatric use? » Jakeman, posted by ace on July 21, 2005, at 1:23:04
>
> BE CVERY CAREFUL with Tramadol (Ultram) I used it for 3 /4 weeks every second day or so. Tolerance builds quickly. It put me in a state of bliss (Mu-Opioid stimulation) but the rebound depression was hell. One night of bliss isn't worth two days of hell in bed...
>
> Ace
Same exact thing happened to me with hydrocodone. Bliss while on it, miserable depression for 3-5 days afterward.Marsah
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