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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lushkins on May 31, 2005, at 3:05:34
I have been prescribed klonopin for sleep as I have been having insomnia from remeron withdrawl. How long does it take until you would have withdrawl symtoms fter stopping the klonopin. I intend to stop the med after my exams which end in ten days. I understand that this med gives bad concentratio levels, but at the moment with the insomnia I cant read a sentence and know what I have just read, I am having real trouble writing this. I have not slept a wink in 72hrs. I would take the lowest possible dose for just some sleep. It is just to ease me into the transition period for adjusting to the new remeron dose. Incidentaly I feel better since lowering the remeron dose, much less anger, and anxiety. I am now down to 15mg from 30 and intend to stay here until I get fully adjusted. I don'y mind insomnia that much but around my exams it is intolerable.
Lushkins
Posted by Paul Smith on May 31, 2005, at 4:01:33
In reply to Klonopin, posted by lushkins on May 31, 2005, at 3:05:34
> I have been prescribed klonopin for sleep as I have been having insomnia from remeron withdrawl. How long does it take until you would have withdrawl symtoms fter stopping the klonopin. I intend to stop the med after my exams which end in ten days. I understand that this med gives bad concentratio levels, but at the moment with the insomnia I cant read a sentence and know what I have just read, I am having real trouble writing this. I have not slept a wink in 72hrs. I would take the lowest possible dose for just some sleep. It is just to ease me into the transition period for adjusting to the new remeron dose. Incidentaly I feel better since lowering the remeron dose, much less anger, and anxiety. I am now down to 15mg from 30 and intend to stay here until I get fully adjusted. I don'y mind insomnia that much but around my exams it is intolerable.
>
> LushkinsBenzos are not designed for sleep and are highly dependency inducing. Get some Ambien and take it as needed, if daily, not more than a month as it can also be addictive.
Posted by med_empowered on May 31, 2005, at 4:02:45
In reply to Klonopin, posted by lushkins on May 31, 2005, at 3:05:34
hey! As benzos go, Klonopin is easier in terms of withdrawal symtpoms than a lot of others...especially Xanax and Halcion. If you're doing this very short term, it should be even less of a problem. Klonopin kicks in around 20minutes after you take it, unless you take it during or right after a very high-fat meal, in which case this could be delayed a bit. The tricky thing about Klonopin, though, is that the concentrations of Klonopin reach their peak about *4 hours* after you take it. So, I'd recommend trying out maybe .5mgs-.75mgs around, say, 6-7PM (that's just when I took it when I used it for sleep; your mileage may vary). Around 10-11, you'll be feeling what are pretty much the *full* effects of your Klonopin dose; if you're not yet sedated enough to sleep, you can try another .25mgs-.5mgs...hopefully, that way, when it first kicks in (20mins, +/-) you might be sedated enough to fall asleep; then, the levels of Klonopin will continue to climb for the next couple hours, and the plateau and fall off. Hopefully, if you get 7-8 hours sleep out of this, by the time you wake up you'll have a smaller amount of Klonopin in your system--enough for an anti-anxiety effect, but not quite enough to cause sleep or too much cognitive impairment. This setup worked for me, and I found Klonopin effective as a temporary sleep aid, but your results may vary. When you no longer need to take Klonopin, what you may want to do is cut your dose gradually; from, say 1mg a nite to maybe .75mgs for 3-4 nites, then .5mgs for a bit, then .25mgs, then stop. I found that keeping some headache medicine on hand along with some dipenhydramine helped alot during withdrawal...you might get mild headaches, and the dipenhydramine should help with any sleep trouble you experience. Since Klonopin is long-acting, it is theoretically easier to taper off; also, discontinuing benzos used for sleep is usually easier than discontinuing benzos used for daytime anxiety. Good luck!
Posted by lushkins on May 31, 2005, at 4:13:58
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by Paul Smith on May 31, 2005, at 4:01:33
I must admit that I am a bit scared of taking klonopin even for a short period. I may suggest ambien to my Dr tomorrow. I would of talked to my pychiatrist(sp) but that would cost me 120 quid for some sleep, I think not!! So I may suggest ambien, what would the name be for it in the UK? I am sure I will find out. I hate going into the Drs to suggest things, I feel like I undermining him, but they once gave me sonata which must be weak as it didn't do a thing, I need something to knock me out. I have insomnia at the best of times, but seem to be OK after 4-5 hrs a night but this is getting beyond a joke.
Thanks
Posted by lara53 on May 31, 2005, at 6:21:45
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by lushkins on May 31, 2005, at 4:13:58
Lushkins
I took klonopin for almost one year without any withdrawal problems.Took only one mg.Also took at 7p to avoid fatigue next day.My regular doctor stated he thought it was better than sonota. Before this I was going to pain doc. and my pain went away also. She also said to stay on it. My last appointment with pdoc when he raised my lamictal,he said to try without it. I have had insomnia for sooo many years now no problem with lamictal-too tired actually. I only like to sleep 6 hrs at most.I need to ask him for more next week for my neck&shoulder pain is back.My best to you in your exams and I am sorry you are having a hard time.
Laura
Posted by lushkins on May 31, 2005, at 7:21:33
In reply to Re: Klonopin » lushkins, posted by lara53 on May 31, 2005, at 6:21:45
Thanks laura. I think I will take the klonopin for the 10 days until my exams are over, and then that will be it. I have only got 14 tablets so I will not be tempted. Do you guys think I will eventually get used to life without remeron or will I have insomnia forever? I hope this is just a rebound effect from decreasing the remeron, even on remeron I would only get 4-5 hrs but for me that is enough to function. I do not want to take sleeping aids for sustained periods to treat my insomnia as it just adds other things into the already complicated equation. My depression is pretty much under control, although it is still there to a certain extent it is more manageble. I really don't know what I should be like at sleeping without aids as I have since early adolensance used cannabis as my night cap, but before these problems started although I have not for mental health reasons in the last 2 yrs. I will probabily pass my exams if I can concentrate for long enough, and then I have all the summer to get my sleep sorted without the crappy remeron. I think the lamictal that I am on which is helping my mood contributes to my insomnia, I do by the way take that in the morning. Anyway thanks for the input guys!!!
Lushkins
Posted by ed_uk on May 31, 2005, at 13:41:33
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by lushkins on May 31, 2005, at 4:13:58
Hi,
Ambien is available as a generic in the UK: zolpidem. The brand name is Stilnoct.
Zopiclone (Zimovane) is used more commonly than zolpidem (Stilnoct) in the UK. Rivotril isn't often used for sleep here. Temazepam and nitrazepam are the most commonly used benzodiazepine night sedatives.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by lushkins on May 31, 2005, at 14:55:10
In reply to Re: Klonopin » lushkins, posted by ed_uk on May 31, 2005, at 13:41:33
Thanks for the info, I think I will just take it for a few nights, so one night on one night off sort of thing, until my exams are over. By which time I will hopefully be adjusted to the new remeron(zispen) dose so that the insomnia is more managable. I hope this insomnia is not the first signs of the depression hitting back. I have been quite happy today, although a bit irritable which is understandable with the lack of sleep. I will report back in the morning, hopefully feeling somewhat refreshed.
Lushkins
Posted by ed_uk on May 31, 2005, at 15:43:59
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by lushkins on May 31, 2005, at 14:55:10
Sleep well Lushkins!
/Ed
Posted by SLS on May 31, 2005, at 16:25:23
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by med_empowered on May 31, 2005, at 4:02:45
Regarding Halcion, when used for sleep only, it almost doesn't have a chance to induce a physiological dependency as one goes through a sort of withdrawal each day when it leaves the system. Sort of.
I think it is a reasonable course of action to take a benzodiazepine in this circumstance. I'm not sure I like the idea of using Klonopin, though. It hangs around too long and might compromise cognitive acuity. I think Ativan or Restoril might be better choices as they are intermediate with regard to half-life.
I think Ed_UK is a better source than I am of information as to the plethora of benzos available and what each is best suited for treating.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2005, at 17:46:15
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by SLS on May 31, 2005, at 16:25:23
Ed, didn't you once say lunesta has been in Europe for a long time marketed under a different name. That might be a choice. Fondly, PJ O
Posted by sleepygirl on May 31, 2005, at 22:08:06
In reply to Klonopin, posted by lushkins on May 31, 2005, at 3:05:34
Careful, careful, I take it daily and will start to feel the withdrawal the next day after I skip an evening dose, the agitation, restlessness, sucks. Good luck.
Posted by sleepygirl on June 1, 2005, at 0:17:20
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by sleepygirl on May 31, 2005, at 22:08:06
I do, however, take it long term, so at this point my body is very used to it, dare I say dependent? I am also wondering why your doc chose a benzo with a long half life for your insomnia, there's others that are out of your body quicker, do their job, get you to sleep, and then get out. Regardless, I hope it works well for you, take care.
Posted by ed_uk on June 1, 2005, at 3:36:09
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2005, at 17:46:15
Hi PJ,
>Ed, didn't you once say lunesta has been in Europe for a long time marketed under a different name.
We've got zopiclone- which is similar to Lunesta.
Ed xxx
Posted by lushkins on June 1, 2005, at 6:45:38
In reply to Re: Klonopin » Phillipa, posted by ed_uk on June 1, 2005, at 3:36:09
Well despite the klonopin I didn't sleep well, maybe 4 hrs didn't really feel any sedative effects until the morning and now I feel more depressed than before. I am not taking this again when taking with my Dr yesterday he also talked about temazepam, I said I wanted something to knock me out (along those lines so he gave me klonopin (provitril or wehatever it is). Is it usual to feel more depressed after just one day on this. It could of course be the decrease in remeron kicking in which I am more afraid off. I really want to get off that stuff as it does more harm to me than good. I thought/hoped that the higher dose of lamictal that I am now on compared to the last time I tried to come of the remeron would of kept my head above water so to speak. But I am not the klonopin tonight I just feel so miserable and I remember last night being able to laugh at things on the TV and when watching a film I was really into it now I feel miserable/nothing. I am not really liking this I also feel dumb.
Lushkins
Posted by lushkins on June 1, 2005, at 7:13:39
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by lushkins on June 1, 2005, at 6:45:38
Does anyone else get depressed after taking klonopin or any other Benzo for that matter? It does feel strangly like the hangover that I have after binge drinking but without the anxiety that comes with the after effect of drink. I really hope this is not the decrease in the remeron, it took me ages to recover from that last time. I always seem to mess with my meds around exam times, but it is the only time I have felt ready to do so, as I have been OK for a month or so. Stuipid me!!1
Posted by Phillipa on June 1, 2005, at 16:34:20
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by lushkins on June 1, 2005, at 7:13:39
Yes, I thought klonopin made me feel stupid and dulled my senses. I used to feel a calm come over me from valium, ativan, xanax but no more. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by sleepygirl on June 1, 2005, at 19:21:10
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by lushkins on June 1, 2005, at 7:13:39
My doc seems to think that klonopin has at times caused the reappearance of my depressive symptoms, so I guess, yes.
Posted by 4WD on June 2, 2005, at 22:21:26
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by lushkins on June 1, 2005, at 6:45:38
> Well despite the klonopin I didn't sleep well, maybe 4 hrs didn't really feel any sedative effects until the morning and now I feel more depressed than before. I am not taking this again when taking with my Dr yesterday he also talked about temazepam, I said I wanted something to knock me out (along those lines so he gave me klonopin (provitril or wehatever it is). Is it usual to feel more depressed after just one day on this. It could of course be the decrease in remeron kicking in which I am more afraid off. I really want to get off that stuff as it does more harm to me than good. I thought/hoped that the higher dose of lamictal that I am now on compared to the last time I tried to come of the remeron would of kept my head above water so to speak. But I am not the klonopin tonight I just feel so miserable and I remember last night being able to laugh at things on the TV and when watching a film I was really into it now I feel miserable/nothing. I am not really liking this I also feel dumb.
>
> LushkinsHi. Klonopin does indeed make me feel depressed. Kind of bland and flat and dull and apathetic. I think it depends a lot on dosage. It also depends on how scared I am when I take it. If I'm really terrified it seems to go to the anxiety and not make me depressed. If I'm just anxious and nervous, it makes me blue instead. It really doesn't work very well for sleep for me - but that's not what I take it for.
Posted by darkhorse on June 3, 2005, at 8:34:05
In reply to Re: Klonopin » lushkins, posted by 4WD on June 2, 2005, at 22:21:26
Hi,
>
> Hi. Klonopin does indeed make me feel depressed. Kind of bland and flat and dull and apathetic. >Same here,except that I tried it in different doses (0.5/1/1.5/2) and all had the same effect.
Darkhorse.
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 3, 2005, at 20:47:10
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by darkhorse on June 3, 2005, at 8:34:05
Have you found a benzo that does not cause/worsen depression? If so...I must know at once my friend!
Scott
Posted by darkhorse on June 6, 2005, at 3:42:43
In reply to Re: Klonopin » darkhorse, posted by Mr.Scott on June 3, 2005, at 20:47:10
> Have you found a benzo that does not cause/worsen depression? If so...I must know at once my friend!
>
> ScottHello Scott,
Nearly all BZ gave depressive syndroms while withdawing from long term- use,but I keep telling myself that it is a side effect and will end.
Clonazepam is the only BZ that produces depression while I'm on it.Tranxene also but to a milder degree.
If I take large doses of diazepam or prazepam I get depressed because of the heavy sedation and the accumelatrion of the drug in the body.
The least depressive ones for me which never gave depressive symptoms are bromazepam,lorazepam,bentazepam,chlordiazepoxide.
All the best!
Darkhorse.
Posted by lushkins on June 6, 2005, at 6:40:51
In reply to Re: Klonopin » Mr.Scott, posted by darkhorse on June 6, 2005, at 3:42:43
hI,
I have since been on a stag weekend, and I have spent over 200 quid on drink, and I feel CRAP. I still can't sleep despite consiumiong lots and losts of alchol, I am NOT really super depressed at the moment, but I am sure that will come big time, I can not focuss. I know I shouldn't of gone but it was my best Mate getting married and it would off been wrong not to of. I have my exam on Tuesday and cannot focuss at all to read and spell. Its not just my life I am messing up but my Mums as well who has supported me through thick and thin, which I am starting to hate myself because of it. Sucks really
Posted by honey on June 6, 2005, at 20:00:54
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by lushkins on June 6, 2005, at 6:40:51
(hi everyone, i'm new)
Lushkins, did you try ambien/zolpidem yet? I tried klonopin/clonazepam for to help with sleep, and although I know it helps a lot, for me it did nothing: I'm also on benzos for anxiety disorder, and have just (slowly) quit clonazepam and gone back to valium/diazepam. But none of the benzos send me to sleep.
Zolpidem on the other hand worked very well for me when I was going through insomnia: even 5mg just knocked me out. I'm in the UK too, and although doctors will warn you not to take it for long, to be honest I'm surprised they aren't prescribing it first - they're even more paranoid about benzos usually.
If you do take zolpidem for long, you *will* have trouble sleeping 1 or 2 nights after you quit, but if your general insomnia's cleared, it should be ok after that. At least, that was true for me.
My problem now isn't getting to sleep - it's sleep quality, which is appalling: vivid dreams, not deep/delta/stage 4 sleep, and exhaustion all day. But then I have had ME/CFS for 12 years and am in an acute phase. But ambien/zolpidem fixed the *getting to sleep* problem for me, with no detectable side-effects. Be warned it might only last 4 hours or so though.
Very useful to hear some experienced depression on klonopin - I didn't know this, and have been pretty black while taking it!
Posted by ed_uk on June 6, 2005, at 20:19:48
In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by honey on June 6, 2005, at 20:00:54
Hi Honey,
Have you tried zopiclone (Zimovane)? It might keep you asleep for longer than zolpidem.
Ed.
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