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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sabre on January 22, 2005, at 1:44:59
Hi
I have read that 90% of serotonin receptors can be found in the gut. Are there any GABA receptors
outside of the brain?sabre
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 23, 2005, at 9:06:33
In reply to GABA receptors external to brain?, posted by sabre on January 22, 2005, at 1:21:21
> Hi
> I have read that 90% of serotonin receptors can be found in the gut. Are there any GABA receptors
> outside of the brain?
>
> sabreYes, there certainly are. We don't have anything like a full understanding of them, though. Little bits and pieces of understanding. There are both types (GABA-A and -B) in the periphery. They are involved in modulation of pain sensations, for one example. They also have an intimate regulatory role in acid secretion and release of the proteolytic enzyme pepsin in the stomach.
Do you have a specific idea behind your question?
Lar
Posted by jasmineneroli on January 23, 2005, at 17:21:26
In reply to Re: GABA receptors external to brain? » sabre, posted by Larry Hoover on January 23, 2005, at 9:06:33
> They also have an intimate regulatory role in acid secretion and release of the proteolytic enzyme pepsin in the stomach.
>
****
That's very interesting, Lar. Probably accounts for why I feel a lot of my anxiety as "nervousness" in my stomach, including nausea, stomach churning and "butterflies". And why taking Klonopin gets rid of it so well.
What do you think?????
Jas
Posted by sabre on January 23, 2005, at 20:05:48
In reply to Re: GABA receptors external to brain? » sabre, posted by Larry Hoover on January 23, 2005, at 9:06:33
Thankyou Larry
I am looking at GABA-A receptors in relation to my social anxiety and my sister's epilepsy.
I suspect that these might be implicated because my sister has poorly controlled grand mal epilepsy which I read (in one article) is due to the GABA-A not binding with its receptors. They seemed to think partial seizures were due to insufficient GABA-A. I also have a sister who I suspect shows OCD tendencies....a neat freak.
My parents and other siblings are all shy. I don't know how much it bothers them. I hide my social anxiety so they may do so too.I also found references to GABA in the retina.
Another sister has developed a rare retinal problem aggravated by stress. Sorry I don't know the name of it.Serotonin receptors are found in the gut so I wondered if the same occured for GABA. The supplement GABA may have an effect on these receptors. Those using GABA think the blood-brain barrier prevents its uptake. Perhaps if you are deficient in GABA this route might become important?? I would like to know if anyone has had success with GABA supplements.
I am about to try Picamilon. If it is successful can you see any problems trying it for epilepsy, e.g. if you establish a regular dosage of Picamilon and then reduce it, could it lower your seizure threshold?
Thanks Larry. I was hoping you would shed some light on this!
sabre
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 6:03:57
In reply to Re: GABA receptors external to brain? » Larry Hoover, posted by jasmineneroli on January 23, 2005, at 17:21:26
> > They also have an intimate regulatory role in acid secretion and release of the proteolytic enzyme pepsin in the stomach.
> >
> ****
> That's very interesting, Lar. Probably accounts for why I feel a lot of my anxiety as "nervousness" in my stomach, including nausea, stomach churning and "butterflies". And why taking Klonopin gets rid of it so well.
> What do you think?????
> JasThat could be a central effect, too. Central as in central nervous system, with feedback to the stomach via the vagus nerve.
Still, it sounds like a reasonable explanation.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 6:15:28
In reply to Re: GABA receptors external to brain?, posted by sabre on January 23, 2005, at 20:05:48
> Thankyou Larry
You're welcome. And, before I begin, my answers are pure speculation.
> I am looking at GABA-A receptors in relation to my social anxiety and my sister's epilepsy.
>
> I suspect that these might be implicated because my sister has poorly controlled grand mal epilepsy which I read (in one article) is due to the GABA-A not binding with its receptors. They seemed to think partial seizures were due to insufficient GABA-A. I also have a sister who I suspect shows OCD tendencies....a neat freak.There are two potentiators of GABA-A receptor function that I know of, magnesium and niacinamide. I hesitate to discuss these more fully just now, as I do not know the implications with respect to epilepsy. I'll have to come back to this another time.
> My parents and other siblings are all shy. I don't know how much it bothers them. I hide my social anxiety so they may do so too.
>
> I also found references to GABA in the retina.
> Another sister has developed a rare retinal problem aggravated by stress. Sorry I don't know the name of it.Magnesium seems to pop into my brain, again. Stress is associated with magnesium depletion, as adrenal stress hormones change the ability of the kidneys to retain this mineral, despite the fact that magnesium is essential for modulation of the stress response. Unfortunately, there is no valid medical test for magnesium levels in the body. The test for magnesium deficiency is magnesium supplementation. If the supplementation appears to relieve the symptoms, then magnesium deficiency is inferred to have existed.
> Serotonin receptors are found in the gut so I wondered if the same occured for GABA. The supplement GABA may have an effect on these receptors.I would think so, yes.
> Those using GABA think the blood-brain barrier prevents its uptake. Perhaps if you are deficient in GABA this route might become important??
It would undoubtedly give peripheral boosts to GABA levels. How much difference it would make in an individual can only be determined by experimentation.
> I would like to know if anyone has had success with GABA supplements.
I personally never noticed any effect. But then again, I probably did not do a proper experiment. I take a lot of supps, and I doubt I ever did a solo GABA trial. I get a fine anxiolytic response to niacinamide, so that's what I use.
> I am about to try Picamilon. If it is successful can you see any problems trying it for epilepsy, e.g. if you establish a regular dosage of Picamilon and then reduce it, could it lower your seizure threshold?
I'm not comfortable even trying to answer that. I don't know. I'll see if I can find out, though.
> Thanks Larry. I was hoping you would shed some light on this!
>
> sabreIt's a dim candle, yet. I'll see if I can't brighten the flame a wee bit.
Lar
Posted by sabre on January 24, 2005, at 16:14:58
In reply to Re: GABA receptors external to brain? » sabre, posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 6:15:28
Thanks again, Larry.
I enjoy your responses. You may feel some of them are speculative but I think discussion and conjecture are valuable. I really appreciate the time, thought and effort you put in to responding to people. It is the balance of scientific ideas, warmth and support that keep me coming back to Babble!Magnesium has worked very well on physical symptoms e.g. muscle cramps and triggers. I'm not so sure about anxiety. Tyrosine has helped in regard to panic and energy.
Niacinamide aggravated my anxiety. I'm a little concerned that the nicotinic acid combined with GABA in Picamilon might have a similar effect.
I have also ordered phenibut and magnesium taurate, as you had mentioned that taurine was useful for anxiety.
If GABA and noradrenaline supplements prove to be the most useful but not powerful enough, where do you go from there?
Benzos, MAOS and anti convulsants are not easy to come by. Would Prozac be a possibility? In addition to its effects on noradrenaline, serotonin and dopamine, it also seems to act on GABA-A:
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/fluoxgaba-a.htmSo how do you suppress serotonin?
Prozac + Tianeptine???????????sabre
Posted by tealady on January 26, 2005, at 16:22:14
In reply to Re: GABA receptors external to brain?, posted by sabre on January 24, 2005, at 16:14:58
hi,
<Magnesium has worked very well on physical symptoms e.g. muscle cramps and triggers. I'm not so sure about anxiety. Tyrosine has helped in regard to panic and energy.Niacinamide aggravated my anxiety>
that's me too..I'm sure though magnesium does nothing for my anxiety. and niacinamide definitely increases anxiety in me.
I'm just starting to trial l-taurine.
Got my shipment in from the US.
It's in this thread
http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages?msg=63913.30
if you click on advanced (bottom RHS), you can view entire thread
Hoping it works ***Jan
PS. sometimes Dr Bob's logic eludes me (regarding moving threads)
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 26, 2005, at 21:39:50
In reply to Re:supps » sabre, posted by tealady on January 26, 2005, at 16:22:14
> that's me too..I'm sure though magnesium does nothing for my anxiety...
I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding supps to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050101/msgs/448401.html
Thanks,
Bob
> PS. sometimes Dr Bob's logic eludes me (regarding moving threads)
Including this time?
Posted by tealady on January 27, 2005, at 2:52:32
In reply to Redirect:supps, posted by Dr. Bob on January 26, 2005, at 21:39:50
> I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding supps to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050101/msgs/448401.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> > PS. sometimes Dr Bob's logic eludes me (regarding moving threads)
>
> Including this time?
LOL...good to see you can't get it back onto the original thread either :-)
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050101/msgs/445602.html
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 28, 2005, at 0:27:13
In reply to Re: Redirect:supps » Dr. Bob, posted by tealady on January 27, 2005, at 2:52:32
> > Including this time?
>
> LOL...good to see you can't get it back onto the original thread either :-)Ah, but I can -- if someone tells me there is one. :-)
Bob
Posted by tealady on January 30, 2005, at 19:30:15
In reply to Re: Redirect:supps, posted by Dr. Bob on January 28, 2005, at 0:27:13
> > > Including this time?
> >
> > LOL...good to see you can't get it back onto the original thread either :-)
>
> Ah, but I can -- if someone tells me there is one. :-)
>
> BobA fine result. In both boards only the relevant threads to that particular board occur under the post and there is the redirect link.
However, as far as I'm aware, it is not possible for board posters to achieve this ;-)
I also find it over-high on overhead time, don't you?Gee I can't even usually remember to change the subject line in the post to one that summarises the post . ..or even to tick "add name of previous poster!"
Regards, Jan
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