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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 16:06:19
........minimizing the intensity of the withdrawal symptoms vs prolonging the duration of the withdrawal symptoms.............
I'd like to ask a question to everyone who has tapered off a benzo........
What was the most successfull method of tapering for YOU? (Which benzo were you on? For how long? What dose?)
a) An EXTREMELY gradual taper- as recommended on http://www.benzo.org by Dr. Ashton.
This is supposed to reduced the intensity of the withdrawal symptoms but other people have reported that tapering VERY gradually 'prolonged the agony.'b) A more rapid taper over a few weeks.
This may increase the intensity of the withdrawal symptoms... but other people have reported that it reduces the duration of the withdrawal symptoms.
Posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 16:08:52
In reply to Tapering off a benzodiazepine........, posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 16:06:19
oops, I posted the wrong address, it was supposed to be http://www.benzo.org.uk
Posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 16:12:50
In reply to Tapering off a benzodiazepine........, posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 16:06:19
PS. This is NOT an 'anti-benzo' post. I am not suggesting that 'to withdraw is virtuous' - as is the current and highly irritating attitude in the UK eg. lets withdraw the diazepam that you've been doing fine on for the last 40 years and replace it with the current 'wonder drug'.
Ed.
Posted by JACJ on January 8, 2005, at 18:55:40
In reply to Re: Tapering off a benzodiazepine........, posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 16:12:50
If you wanting to get off of Benzo's this is the place place for you. I am a member and they really helped me.
Posted by bark2323 on January 8, 2005, at 20:43:20
In reply to Tapering off a benzodiazepine........, posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 16:06:19
When I was in the hospital for 'detox' off alcohol and various other things, they also insisted on discontinuing my klonopin although I did not abuse it (easy to see where they were coming from though). I was on 3-4mg and was off within 2 weeks. Although it was not fun I think I would prefer that if I had to do it again (Im back on klonopin) over a long term taper. Yes I was shacking like mad and pretty anxious, but it was tolerable. They did cross-taper with neurontin, which obviously complicates things, but it is the route I would choose. Just to be clear Im not advocating abrubt withdrawal, or possibly quick withdrawal without another medicine to help, as that has resulted in seizures for me.
matt
Posted by cubbybear on January 9, 2005, at 2:28:51
In reply to Re: Tapering off a benzodiazepine........, posted by bark2323 on January 8, 2005, at 20:43:20
I can say without doubt that at the tail end of my taper, I was successful using the benzo organization's tapering chart--substituting the equivalent amount of Valium. I did this when I was at the .125 mg/day dose, I think, and it worked like a charm.
Posted by darkhorse on January 11, 2005, at 4:49:59
In reply to Re: Tapering off a benzodiazepine........, posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 16:12:50
Hello Ed (remember me?)
Let me tell you that I took Xanax,Ativan and Lexotanil long- term.All other benzos I took were no more than days-2 weeks of use.
I could not taper from Xanax.Withdrawal was harsh and immediate.My dr. at the time switched me to bromazepam 3mg 3 times instead of 0.5 3times of Xanax...no problem at all.
Then he let me reduce it according to how I felt,and I think within 15-20 days I was able to stop with no major problems except intense,tolerable anxiety for few days.
The last time,not so long ago I took lorazepam for a couple of months and again made the switch.
For some reason I can not tolerate tiny doses of benzos when withdrawing or as single dose (e.g. Valium 2mg,Lexotanil 1.5mg,tranxene 5mg,..etc).
They make a very unpleasant sedation,total lack of concentration and a depressed feeling,so every time I taper from long- term use I abruptly stop at these doses and prepare myself mentally for few days-2 weeks of increase of anxiety,insomnia,repetitve thoughts,fluctuations of mood,so when I feel uncomfortable I always remind myself that it will soon be over and that all those symptoms are not real and will go away ,and that it is better to experience bad effects for a few days than to be horribaly depressed and sedated with tiny doses for longer time.
I hope my experience with benzo taper will add more info to your already great knowledge about psychotropic medication.Oh! I'm not in any way saying that my method is good for everyone...some people can stay for long with tiny doses of benzos but not me.
Best wishes and regards,
Dark Horse.
Posted by CareBear04 on January 12, 2005, at 2:15:10
In reply to Re: Tapering off a benzodiazepine........, posted by darkhorse on January 11, 2005, at 4:49:59
hi, i have sort of the same question as ed.
my personal situation-- i've been on 4mg of xanax per day for over a year, plus 2mg of klonopin at night. i've been on klonopin at different doses for two years now. i've also been on ativan at the same time as the others.
right now, i'm on so many meds (maybe 12?) and my brain is dying... it makes me really upset to see myself getting so dumb and losing my memory and sense of time. xanax and klonopin are among the main suspects for the cognitive problems. xanax works better for me, but i've come to like klonopin because it's so convenient in the wafer form. in any case, all the drs i've seen agree that 4mg of xanax is a lot and would like to see me on a lower dose. i have so many medication variables, not to mention current medical problems, so no one is being aggressive about tapering me down. at this point, i want to taper down if not to nothing then to less xanax. i hear, though, that xanax is hell to get off. rather than a slow process of doing it, i'd rather get it over quicker. would a hospital stay be necessary for this so as to avoid possible withdrawal effects like seizures? if anyone has experience, thanks!
Posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2005, at 3:17:20
In reply to Re: Tapering off a benzodiazepine........, posted by darkhorse on January 11, 2005, at 4:49:59
Hi!
>Hello Ed (remember me?)
Of course I do! You are the great but mysterious Mr. Darkhorse who travels the world!
>For some reason I can not tolerate tiny doses of benzos when withdrawing or as single dose. They make a very unpleasant sedation,total lack of concentration and a depressed feeling
That's very interesting. Is it the same feeling that you get after a dose of diazepam wears off?
>(e.g. Valium 2mg,Lexotanil 1.5mg,tranxene 5mg,..etc).
What you said reminded me of a post on babble a while ago where someone said that he took 5 mg chlordiazepoxide and experienced heavy sedation. I don't think that my body could even detect that dose!
Thank you for your helpful (and interesting) information,
Ed.
Posted by darkhorse on January 12, 2005, at 6:06:07
In reply to Re: Tapering off a benzodiazepine........ » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2005, at 3:17:20
Hello Ed,
It is always a pleasure for me to chat with you:
>
>>
> That's very interesting. Is it the same feeling that you get after a dose of diazepam wears off?
>
--I do not know,but I think it is different.It is like being heavely sedated,and can not think,so it is more like a depression of the brain not the mind.For me the withdrawal depression is more "cognitive" : I'm more aware of what is happening in my life,and have a lot of racing(negative) thought.
It is more like a mind depression,while the low dose benzo makes me not able to even think and in a trance.
I hope I explained myself in a clear way ??
Bet regards to our expert.
Dark Horse.
Posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2005, at 6:16:35
In reply to Re: Tapering off a benzodiazepine........ » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on January 12, 2005, at 6:06:07
Hi,
>I hope I explained myself in a clear way ??
Yes, very clear- thank you.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by darkhorse on January 12, 2005, at 6:35:43
In reply to Re: Tapering off a benzodiazepine........, posted by CareBear04 on January 12, 2005, at 2:15:10
Hello Carebear 04 ,
I'm not sure but do you take X,K and A all at the same time and on a regular basis?
Benzos are all cross-tolerance,so if you are taking both K&X together,you may wish to reduce X dose slowly according to how you feel,and continue K - as X is more difficult to withdraw - and I think when you reach an 0.5 or 0.25 mg a day you can stop and continue with K.Then ,if you want,you can taper K slowly.
- I do not think it is necessary to be hospitalized: I've took so many benzos and didn't think I needed a hospital,but every one is different.
- However,I think the golden rule is to taper slowly and be the judge + do not let it worry you and do not think of it too much and take it slow + prepare yourself mentally that you will eperience some discomfort and that you know that it is not natural(this intense anxiety is only bec of withdrawal) and that it is temporary.
- Believe me every passing day after withdrwal you'll feel better and everything will get better day after day, and you will return to your normal self and sleep better..etc.
_ Please do not worry,withdrawing from X is not impossible and not that difficult.
- This is my own experience and maybe an expert like Ed can shed a light in a more "scientific" approach.
Best wishes,
Dark Horse.
Posted by CareBear04 on January 12, 2005, at 11:21:55
In reply to Re: Tapering off a benzodiazepine........ » CareBear04, posted by darkhorse on January 12, 2005, at 6:35:43
thanks, dark horse. your message was really helpful. some doctors have suggested switching to all klonopin, but i really am more a xanax person, and too much K makes me somewhat depressed and flat, not to mention more tired. plus, one dr mentioned that in his training, one supervisor cautioned NEVER to exceed 5mg of K/day, so he was reluctant to make the switch.
it's encouraging to hear that you've managed the feat. i've heard to many stories about X withdrawal being hell. i guess i'll take it slow, but i'm on so many other things that i'm not sure i can distinguish xanax withdrawal and rebound anxiety from what the other drugs are doing or the agitated depression i'm starting to slip into. i've also heard that about benzos ultimately messing your sleep up instead of helping. i think that's my biggest concern-- after two years of using benzos for sleep with or without supplemental ambien, i'm worried about ironing out my sleep. especially when i'm mini-manic or agitated depressed, sleep is the first symtpom and maybe the one that makes these states worse.
anyway, thanks for your input and support. much appreciated, cb
This is the end of the thread.
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