![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Optimist on January 3, 2005, at 20:06:49
I have to admit I've been romantisizing/obsessing about Parnate for the last month. hehe
I had 100% remission of my dysthymia, social anxiety symptoms about a month ago when I added the herb Vitex to my Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, tyrosine, caffeine combo.
The dopamine agonist properties of the Vitex gave me a huge improvement in my confidence, self-esteem, and assertiveness. My personality also became much more extroverted, and humourous. It was like I was finally the way I was supposed to be. My moods also stabilized quite significantly.
This lasted for about 3 weeks then it pooped out. I've taken Vitex before and everytime I take it, it works magically then poops out after a month. I was hoping that this time the effect might stay due to the other meds I was on possibly altering my brain chemistry in some way to prevent this.
So... basically I am trying to think of options to regain that social anxiety annilation that I've had before. The addition of stronger dopamine agonists like bromocriptine, cabergoline, or mirapex I was thinking about, but considering their infamous poopout rates as well I thought there must be a better option.
I've been spending the last few weeks combing through all the posts on this site that are relevant to Parnate to try and learn as much as possible about it. I understand that it is quite dopaminergic, as well as quite great for social anxiety. I believe my social anxiety is more dopamine related than GABA as the Vitex has 100% wiped out the SA in the past.
So, is anyone else romantisizing about the MAOi's Parnate and Nardil? They seem to be so extremely effective with respect to social anxiety and atypical depressions, that they are a head above the rest.
I'll try and write a few more of my thoughts later as I'm just on the way to the gym and feel like I need to get off my chest/collaborate a few ideas concerning the use of Parnate.
p.s. I'm addicted to the success stories as well. I find myself reading them over and over again. Posts from Ace, Cybercafe, King Vultan, Dan Perkins, etc... I find them very inspiring!
Posted by KaraS on January 3, 2005, at 22:25:25
In reply to I want to be a Parnate champion!, posted by Optimist on January 3, 2005, at 20:06:49
> I have to admit I've been romantisizing/obsessing about Parnate for the last month. hehe
>
> I had 100% remission of my dysthymia, social anxiety symptoms about a month ago when I added the herb Vitex to my Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, tyrosine, caffeine combo.
>
> The dopamine agonist properties of the Vitex gave me a huge improvement in my confidence, self-esteem, and assertiveness. My personality also became much more extroverted, and humourous. It was like I was finally the way I was supposed to be. My moods also stabilized quite significantly.
>
> This lasted for about 3 weeks then it pooped out. I've taken Vitex before and everytime I take it, it works magically then poops out after a month. I was hoping that this time the effect might stay due to the other meds I was on possibly altering my brain chemistry in some way to prevent this.
>
> So... basically I am trying to think of options to regain that social anxiety annilation that I've had before. The addition of stronger dopamine agonists like bromocriptine, cabergoline, or mirapex I was thinking about, but considering their infamous poopout rates as well I thought there must be a better option.
>
> I've been spending the last few weeks combing through all the posts on this site that are relevant to Parnate to try and learn as much as possible about it. I understand that it is quite dopaminergic, as well as quite great for social anxiety. I believe my social anxiety is more dopamine related than GABA as the Vitex has 100% wiped out the SA in the past.
>
> So, is anyone else romantisizing about the MAOi's Parnate and Nardil? They seem to be so extremely effective with respect to social anxiety and atypical depressions, that they are a head above the rest.
>
> I'll try and write a few more of my thoughts later as I'm just on the way to the gym and feel like I need to get off my chest/collaborate a few ideas concerning the use of Parnate.
>
> p.s. I'm addicted to the success stories as well. I find myself reading them over and over again. Posts from Ace, Cybercafe, King Vultan, Dan Perkins, etc... I find them very inspiring!
Same here - but I'm not as much of an "optimist" as you are. I'm researching it like crazy but I fear I won't even be able to tolerate it.k
Posted by Willyee on January 3, 2005, at 23:36:30
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion! » Optimist, posted by KaraS on January 3, 2005, at 22:25:25
> > I have to admit I've been romantisizing/obsessing about Parnate for the last month. hehe
> >
> > I had 100% remission of my dysthymia, social anxiety symptoms about a month ago when I added the herb Vitex to my Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, tyrosine, caffeine combo.
> >
> > The dopamine agonist properties of the Vitex gave me a huge improvement in my confidence, self-esteem, and assertiveness. My personality also became much more extroverted, and humourous. It was like I was finally the way I was supposed to be. My moods also stabilized quite significantly.
> >
> > This lasted for about 3 weeks then it pooped out. I've taken Vitex before and everytime I take it, it works magically then poops out after a month. I was hoping that this time the effect might stay due to the other meds I was on possibly altering my brain chemistry in some way to prevent this.
> >
> > So... basically I am trying to think of options to regain that social anxiety annilation that I've had before. The addition of stronger dopamine agonists like bromocriptine, cabergoline, or mirapex I was thinking about, but considering their infamous poopout rates as well I thought there must be a better option.
> >
> > I've been spending the last few weeks combing through all the posts on this site that are relevant to Parnate to try and learn as much as possible about it. I understand that it is quite dopaminergic, as well as quite great for social anxiety. I believe my social anxiety is more dopamine related than GABA as the Vitex has 100% wiped out the SA in the past.
> >
> > So, is anyone else romantisizing about the MAOi's Parnate and Nardil? They seem to be so extremely effective with respect to social anxiety and atypical depressions, that they are a head above the rest.
> >
> > I'll try and write a few more of my thoughts later as I'm just on the way to the gym and feel like I need to get off my chest/collaborate a few ideas concerning the use of Parnate.
> >
> > p.s. I'm addicted to the success stories as well. I find myself reading them over and over again. Posts from Ace, Cybercafe, King Vultan, Dan Perkins, etc... I find them very inspiring!
>
>
> Same here - but I'm not as much of an "optimist" as you are. I'm researching it like crazy but I fear I won't even be able to tolerate it.
>
> k
Dont worry to much about tolerating it,or you might have placebo effects from the worrying.Most people are able to tolerate it well,you might have some discomfort the first few days as u are introduced to the med,i rember a tightening feeling in my head,but that quickly subsided when i got used to the med.And that will be the thing,you will get used to it,and find for yourself the specific foods,etc to avoid,for myself soy sauce is all,i pretty much have had zero food interactions with it over the 4 years.
One thing to look forward to is,if it does work,the first few weeks of taking it are gold,they are the best cause for the first time in a long time you actualy take a med that works.The biggest concern more so than tolerance i think some should worry,is what youll see us veterans dealing with,and that is parnate is notorious for poop-out,we augment it to high heavens,adjust dosages,do everything we can think of to achieve that magic we know the med is capable of producing,we know this cause it is what we felt the first few weeks on it,good luck,hopefully youll have the tiny red pill sitting in your room soon,then like me hopefully you can grab that big bag of sssris you had been put on times over,and have a cermonial flushing.I tossed tons of usesless meds when i got on parnate,and dont miss a single one.
Posted by Optimist on January 3, 2005, at 23:50:09
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion! » Optimist, posted by KaraS on January 3, 2005, at 22:25:25
> Same here - but I'm not as much of an "optimist" as you are. I'm researching it like crazy but I fear I won't even be able to tolerate it.
>
> kI have no qualms about tolerating it. I'm not even worried about the diet restrictions or drug interactions. I'm kind of weary about switching from a med combo that is working reasonably well for me though.
I'm not so sure my pdoc will want to switch me either. She said on my last visit that she thinks that I am expecting too much. Basically she thinks I should be happy with 80% improvement. It's hard though when I've felt 100% in the past. It's always a place to strive towards.
She usually ask me where I am on a scale of 1 to 10, and lately I've been answering 8 or so. But I feel that even though the depression may be wiped out, lets say a 10, the social anxiety still exists around a 6. I've never said it in those terms though so hopefully that will do a better job of communicating how I feel. Breaking it down.
I would say my pdoc is pretty good though. She schedules her appts at 45 min. intervals and has no qualms about prescribing amphetamines, benzos, and MAOIs. I guess I'm lucky in that regard. She seems to care about the patient overall rather than the money. I'm sure she could pack in more patients per hour if she wanted.
Posted by Optimist on January 4, 2005, at 0:52:16
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion!, posted by Optimist on January 3, 2005, at 23:50:09
My main reason for thinking about switching from
Prozac 20mg
Wellbutrin SR 450mg
Adderall XR 15mgto Parnate is that I'm hoping on achieving a more sustainable dopamine improvement. I don't find this combo creates enough of a dopamine increase. It is also a bit on the agitating side of things as well than I'd like.
Based on my theory that since Vitex helped my social anxiety the most and it's a dopamine agonist, then something else that increases dopamine should be of similar value. The main noticable increases I get from Vitex is greatly increased confidence, sexual desire, mood stablization, reduced mental dialogue, and a more humourous and charasmatic personality. The Vitex blows away the Adderall and Wellbutrin in those respects. Too bad they didn't last indefinitely. :(
If my knowledge is accurate, dopamine agonists tend to usually down regulate dopamine receptors overtime resulting in less therapeutic action. Other dopamine drugs seem to have this effect as well. Amineptine which I've heard is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor has a tendency to poop out rather quickly as well.
Is it impossible to have a sustained increased dopamine response over time then? Will down regulation of receptors always happen? Or do some mechanisms have less chance of creating down regulation than others.
A breakdown of the different classes of dopamine drugs are(this is not an exhaustive list).
1. Dopamine releasers (Adderal, Dexedrine, Ritalin, methamphetamine)
2. Dopamine reuptake inhibitors (Wellbutrin, Amineptine, the amphetamines/stimulants)
3. Dopamine agonists (Cabergoline, Bromocriptine, Mirapex)
4. MAO(A and B) inhibitors (Nardil, Parnate, Selegiline, Marplan, Moclobemide)
5. Increased substrate (L-dopa, tyrosine, phenylalanine)
6. Low dose atypical antipsychotic (Risperidal, Zyprexa, Amilsulphiride)
7. COMT inhibitors (Not sure of any at this time)From what I know I'd think the dopamine agonists are the strongest dopaminergic drugs, but I don't see them as a long term solution.
Perhaps combining an MAOi with Wellbutrin, or an amphetamine would allow for even greater longterm dopaminergic action.
I was wondering as well if the initial Parnate euphoria was from the increased dopaminergic action it causes. Then after time the receptors down regulate somewhat and the euphoria ends. And further dose increases to recapture the euphoria result in more and more receptor down regulation. The same is true of amphetamines and other stimulants like cocaine so I've heard.
I was also wondering if the reduced dopaminergic response may be due to the substrate being exhausted and supplementation with tyrosine or phenylalanine may halt this process.
Or perhaps it's a combination of both down regulated dopamine receptors and exhausted substrate?
Any thoughts, or studies to comment on?
Posted by cubbybear on January 4, 2005, at 1:16:33
In reply to Re: Dopamine enhancement: Is my thinking correct?, posted by Optimist on January 4, 2005, at 0:52:16
I've been reading your posts and unfortunately am not an expert on the technical neurochemistry.
I can attest to the greatness of Parnate since I've been taking it for 20 years. You might want to check my previous posts for 2004 to see what I've said about this amazing AD.At present, however, I'm experiencing break-through anxiety and always fear that the drug will poop out. My pdoc always tells me that it won't--that it IS possible to experience anxiety states when certain stressful situations arise. But poop out always has been my biggest fear.
I've heard that dopamine depletion has been implicated in poop out. I've also heard that dopamine production diminishes with age. Now that I'm 56, you can imagine how my fears may intensify in the coming years.So naturally I too am very curious about dopamine depletion. If this in fact is the cause of an MAOI poopout, what can best be done SAFELY to augment the drug, For instance, my maintenance dose has always been only 30 mg./day. Would increasing the dose to 40 mg. be an option if poopout occurred?
I also plan to post a question about dopamine vis a vis anxiety.
cubbybear
Posted by KaraS on January 4, 2005, at 1:54:18
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion!, posted by Willyee on January 3, 2005, at 23:36:30
> > > I have to admit I've been romantisizing/obsessing about Parnate for the last month. hehe
> > >
> > > I had 100% remission of my dysthymia, social anxiety symptoms about a month ago when I added the herb Vitex to my Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, tyrosine, caffeine combo.
> > >
> > > The dopamine agonist properties of the Vitex gave me a huge improvement in my confidence, self-esteem, and assertiveness. My personality also became much more extroverted, and humourous. It was like I was finally the way I was supposed to be. My moods also stabilized quite significantly.
> > >
> > > This lasted for about 3 weeks then it pooped out. I've taken Vitex before and everytime I take it, it works magically then poops out after a month. I was hoping that this time the effect might stay due to the other meds I was on possibly altering my brain chemistry in some way to prevent this.
> > >
> > > So... basically I am trying to think of options to regain that social anxiety annilation that I've had before. The addition of stronger dopamine agonists like bromocriptine, cabergoline, or mirapex I was thinking about, but considering their infamous poopout rates as well I thought there must be a better option.
> > >
> > > I've been spending the last few weeks combing through all the posts on this site that are relevant to Parnate to try and learn as much as possible about it. I understand that it is quite dopaminergic, as well as quite great for social anxiety. I believe my social anxiety is more dopamine related than GABA as the Vitex has 100% wiped out the SA in the past.
> > >
> > > So, is anyone else romantisizing about the MAOi's Parnate and Nardil? They seem to be so extremely effective with respect to social anxiety and atypical depressions, that they are a head above the rest.
> > >
> > > I'll try and write a few more of my thoughts later as I'm just on the way to the gym and feel like I need to get off my chest/collaborate a few ideas concerning the use of Parnate.
> > >
> > > p.s. I'm addicted to the success stories as well. I find myself reading them over and over again. Posts from Ace, Cybercafe, King Vultan, Dan Perkins, etc... I find them very inspiring!
> >
> >
> > Same here - but I'm not as much of an "optimist" as you are. I'm researching it like crazy but I fear I won't even be able to tolerate it.
> >
> > k
>
>
> Dont worry to much about tolerating it,or you might have placebo effects from the worrying.Most people are able to tolerate it well,you might have some discomfort the first few days as u are introduced to the med,i rember a tightening feeling in my head,but that quickly subsided when i got used to the med.
>
> And that will be the thing,you will get used to it,and find for yourself the specific foods,etc to avoid,for myself soy sauce is all,i pretty much have had zero food interactions with it over the 4 years.
>
> One thing to look forward to is,if it does work,the first few weeks of taking it are gold,they are the best cause for the first time in a long time you actualy take a med that works.The biggest concern more so than tolerance i think some should worry,is what youll see us veterans dealing with,and that is parnate is notorious for poop-out,we augment it to high heavens,adjust dosages,do everything we can think of to achieve that magic we know the med is capable of producing,we know this cause it is what we felt the first few weeks on it,good luck,hopefully youll have the tiny red pill sitting in your room soon,then like me hopefully you can grab that big bag of sssris you had been put on times over,and have a cermonial flushing.I tossed tons of usesless meds when i got on parnate,and dont miss a single one.
>
>So it's still working for you - just not at the original level?
I probably won't have that initial amphetamine type high since amphetamines put me to sleep - they don't make me feel high at all. My concern with tolerating it is more that I'll be able to stay awake.
Flushing all of the useless medicine sounds good though. :-)
Thanks,
K
Posted by KaraS on January 4, 2005, at 2:04:52
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion!, posted by Optimist on January 3, 2005, at 23:50:09
> > Same here - but I'm not as much of an "optimist" as you are. I'm researching it like crazy but I fear I won't even be able to tolerate it.
> >
> > k
>
> I have no qualms about tolerating it. I'm not even worried about the diet restrictions or drug interactions. I'm kind of weary about switching from a med combo that is working reasonably well for me though.
>
> I'm not so sure my pdoc will want to switch me either. She said on my last visit that she thinks that I am expecting too much. Basically she thinks I should be happy with 80% improvement. It's hard though when I've felt 100% in the past. It's always a place to strive towards.
>
> She usually ask me where I am on a scale of 1 to 10, and lately I've been answering 8 or so. But I feel that even though the depression may be wiped out, lets say a 10, the social anxiety still exists around a 6. I've never said it in those terms though so hopefully that will do a better job of communicating how I feel. Breaking it down.
>
> I would say my pdoc is pretty good though. She schedules her appts at 45 min. intervals and has no qualms about prescribing amphetamines, benzos, and MAOIs. I guess I'm lucky in that regard. She seems to care about the patient overall rather than the money. I'm sure she could pack in more patients per hour if she wanted.
It's normal to want 100% - and why shouldn't we all have that????OTOH, it is a gamble to give up a successful regimen for an unknown one. But, it's your life and your gamble. Hopefully your doctor will see it that way as well.
My doctor is very kind. He talks to me on the phone some times rather than making me come in to the office and charging me. He doesn't work with MAOIs a lot though. He wants to give me Nardil. He left a message on my answering machine saying that you can't even find Parnate anymore in any of the pharmacies. I left him a message saying that it must be making a comeback because it's available at all of the places I've called. So we'll see what happens.
Posted by cubbybear on January 4, 2005, at 8:58:39
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion! » Optimist, posted by KaraS on January 4, 2005, at 2:04:52
He left a message on my answering machine saying that you can't even find Parnate anymore in any of the pharmacies. I left him a message saying that it must be making a comeback because it's available at all of the places I've called. So we'll see what happens.
The last couple of years, I've been getting my Parnate at Walgreens, which also seems to have the most competitive price.
cubbybear
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Willyee on January 4, 2005, at 16:48:58
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion! » Willyee, posted by KaraS on January 4, 2005, at 1:54:18
Yess it still works for me,only now it seems to be somewhat of a mood stablizer lol.
When i get it to truly do what it`s capable of,it is a true anti-deprassant,which is why i am still trying very hard.
I had good results at high doses,but that pooped and becaome very very scary as i saw a amajor abuse problem.Now im at 40-60 a day.I do however take other things,herbs,benzo as needed or beta blocker,gh...uh ,well anyway regardless of everything else,parnate is without a doubt the foundation,i can go with just parnate,not the others,so it is a crucuial part of my day.
Last,it`s correct parnate wont be found sitting in any pharmacy to be filled the day of ur first script,neither will nardil,however i have had zero problems getting any pharmacy to order it the next day,i dont see why your doc thinks a pharm can not get it,the med is well on the market,i even get a supply from a program through the manf,so the medicine is not in any decline,might want to inform your doc this.
Posted by KaraS on January 4, 2005, at 18:24:13
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion! » KaraS, posted by cubbybear on January 4, 2005, at 8:58:39
> He left a message on my answering machine saying that you can't even find Parnate anymore in any of the pharmacies. I left him a message saying that it must be making a comeback because it's available at all of the places I've called. So we'll see what happens.
>
> The last couple of years, I've been getting my Parnate at Walgreens, which also seems to have the most competitive price.
> cubbybear
> >
> >Costco carries it at a cheaper price and you can get it for less from Canada. I don't have insurance so I'll probably end up getting it from Canada.
Posted by KaraS on January 4, 2005, at 18:28:46
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion!, posted by Willyee on January 4, 2005, at 16:48:58
> Yess it still works for me,only now it seems to be somewhat of a mood stablizer lol.
>
> When i get it to truly do what it`s capable of,it is a true anti-deprassant,which is why i am still trying very hard.
>
> I had good results at high doses,but that pooped and becaome very very scary as i saw a amajor abuse problem.Now im at 40-60 a day.I do however take other things,herbs,benzo as needed or beta blocker,gh...uh ,well anyway regardless of everything else,parnate is without a doubt the foundation,i can go with just parnate,not the others,so it is a crucuial part of my day.
>
> Last,it`s correct parnate wont be found sitting in any pharmacy to be filled the day of ur first script,neither will nardil,however i have had zero problems getting any pharmacy to order it the next day,i dont see why your doc thinks a pharm can not get it,the med is well on the market,i even get a supply from a program through the manf,so the medicine is not in any decline,might want to inform your doc this.
Yes, I did tell him that in a message on his machine. I have yet to talk to him about it in person though. I'm a little nervous knowing that he doesn't prescribe this often but hopefully he'll provide the script and it will work out.I hope you find a good augmenting strategy for the Parnate.
Kara
Posted by cubbybear on January 5, 2005, at 1:13:57
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion! » KaraS, posted by KaraS on January 4, 2005, at 18:24:13
> Costco carries it at a cheaper price and you can get it for less from Canada. I don't have insurance so I'll probably end up getting it from Canada.
I live in Thailand and when I visit the U.S. once or twice a year, I don't have the time or the money to go north of the border.
Can you tell me--is Costco in California? Don't you need a membership card for this place?
cubbybear
>
Posted by KaraS on January 5, 2005, at 2:23:27
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion! » KaraS, posted by cubbybear on January 5, 2005, at 1:13:57
> > Costco carries it at a cheaper price and you can get it for less from Canada. I don't have insurance so I'll probably end up getting it from Canada.
>
> I live in Thailand and when I visit the U.S. once or twice a year, I don't have the time or the money to go north of the border.
> Can you tell me--is Costco in California? Don't you need a membership card for this place?
> cubbybear
> >I order medication from Canada from on-line or by phone with a prescription. You may not have the time for that. Costco is in California (which is where I live). You do need a membership card however. If you know someone who is a member, it might be worth your while to check out. Their prices are the best in the state.
K
Posted by eeyorena on January 5, 2005, at 16:03:19
In reply to I want to be a Parnate champion!, posted by Optimist on January 3, 2005, at 20:06:49
Hmmm. I don't feel "soaring" on my Parnate but I think that is a good thing :) I feel even. Balanced.
Before this, I have been on (not in this order) Elavil, Prozac, Wellbutrin and Effexor. I was put on Lithium once through an HMO doc who didn't know what they were doing.
I am classified as an atypical...I definitely have issues with SAD and light, and some issues with anxiety and rejection. I have hypothyroidism and sleep apnea (very, very bad sleep apnea).
Parnate has been the best med for me, but I may end up the ultimate guinea pig...I'm going to try to switch to Zoloft in order to try for a pregnancy. If I can, well cool. If not, well, we'll look at adoption.
But I will be going off then back on the Parnate so I will be able to relate my experience back here.
And as always, YMMV.
Posted by ace on January 7, 2005, at 20:19:47
In reply to I want to be a Parnate champion!, posted by Optimist on January 3, 2005, at 20:06:49
> I have to admit I've been romantisizing/obsessing about Parnate for the last month. hehe
>
> I had 100% remission of my dysthymia, social anxiety symptoms about a month ago when I added the herb Vitex to my Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, tyrosine, caffeine combo.
>
> The dopamine agonist properties of the Vitex gave me a huge improvement in my confidence, self-esteem, and assertiveness. My personality also became much more extroverted, and humourous. It was like I was finally the way I was supposed to be. My moods also stabilized quite significantly.
>
> This lasted for about 3 weeks then it pooped out. I've taken Vitex before and everytime I take it, it works magically then poops out after a month. I was hoping that this time the effect might stay due to the other meds I was on possibly altering my brain chemistry in some way to prevent this.
>
> So... basically I am trying to think of options to regain that social anxiety annilation that I've had before. The addition of stronger dopamine agonists like bromocriptine, cabergoline, or mirapex I was thinking about, but considering their infamous poopout rates as well I thought there must be a better option.
>
> I've been spending the last few weeks combing through all the posts on this site that are relevant to Parnate to try and learn as much as possible about it. I understand that it is quite dopaminergic, as well as quite great for social anxiety. I believe my social anxiety is more dopamine related than GABA as the Vitex has 100% wiped out the SA in the past.
>
> So, is anyone else romantisizing about the MAOi's Parnate and Nardil? They seem to be so extremely effective with respect to social anxiety and atypical depressions, that they are a head above the rest.
>
> I'll try and write a few more of my thoughts later as I'm just on the way to the gym and feel like I need to get off my chest/collaborate a few ideas concerning the use of Parnate.
>
> p.s. I'm addicted to the success stories as well. I find myself reading them over and over again. Posts from Ace, Cybercafe, King Vultan, Dan Perkins, etc... I find them very inspiring!Hey dude!!!
It is the Nardil Champion here!!! Bro, I personally hated Parnate, but, with what you stated above, I believ it it a prime choice for you.
I have seen many, many brilliant responses from Parnate...not good, but BRILLIANT responses...such responses include a healthy euphoria, absolute motivation, and adrenalin surging in your gut every morning!
Nardil to me was and still is absolutely amazing drug. Just remember it's always there if u need it. The diet is a joke -- i don't even notice and cheat on it all the time (I'm not a role model in that respect!), so I say go for it!!!
You have my total support and blessings...and dude, we need another MAOI king here!!!
Ace, nardil heavyweight!!
Posted by Optimist on January 8, 2005, at 9:39:20
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion! » Optimist, posted by ace on January 7, 2005, at 20:19:47
> > I have to admit I've been romantisizing/obsessing about Parnate for the last month. hehe
> >
> > I had 100% remission of my dysthymia, social anxiety symptoms about a month ago when I added the herb Vitex to my Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, tyrosine, caffeine combo.
> >
> > The dopamine agonist properties of the Vitex gave me a huge improvement in my confidence, self-esteem, and assertiveness. My personality also became much more extroverted, and humourous. It was like I was finally the way I was supposed to be. My moods also stabilized quite significantly.
> >
> > This lasted for about 3 weeks then it pooped out. I've taken Vitex before and everytime I take it, it works magically then poops out after a month. I was hoping that this time the effect might stay due to the other meds I was on possibly altering my brain chemistry in some way to prevent this.
> >
> > So... basically I am trying to think of options to regain that social anxiety annilation that I've had before. The addition of stronger dopamine agonists like bromocriptine, cabergoline, or mirapex I was thinking about, but considering their infamous poopout rates as well I thought there must be a better option.
> >
> > I've been spending the last few weeks combing through all the posts on this site that are relevant to Parnate to try and learn as much as possible about it. I understand that it is quite dopaminergic, as well as quite great for social anxiety. I believe my social anxiety is more dopamine related than GABA as the Vitex has 100% wiped out the SA in the past.
> >
> > So, is anyone else romantisizing about the MAOi's Parnate and Nardil? They seem to be so extremely effective with respect to social anxiety and atypical depressions, that they are a head above the rest.
> >
> > I'll try and write a few more of my thoughts later as I'm just on the way to the gym and feel like I need to get off my chest/collaborate a few ideas concerning the use of Parnate.
> >
> > p.s. I'm addicted to the success stories as well. I find myself reading them over and over again. Posts from Ace, Cybercafe, King Vultan, Dan Perkins, etc... I find them very inspiring!
>
>
>
> Hey dude!!!
>
> It is the Nardil Champion here!!! Bro, I personally hated Parnate, but, with what you stated above, I believ it it a prime choice for you.
>
> I have seen many, many brilliant responses from Parnate...not good, but BRILLIANT responses...such responses include a healthy euphoria, absolute motivation, and adrenalin surging in your gut every morning!
>
> Nardil to me was and still is absolutely amazing drug. Just remember it's always there if u need it. The diet is a joke -- i don't even notice and cheat on it all the time (I'm not a role model in that respect!), so I say go for it!!!
>
> You have my total support and blessings...and dude, we need another MAOI king here!!!
>
> Ace, nardil heavyweight!!
>
>Thanks Ace,
If the Parnate doesn't work out, I'll most definitely be trying Nardil as I'm absolutely sold on their efficacy... for now at least. The research and anecdotes seem very powerful! Wish me luck on tues when I talk to my pdoc about it. Then 5 weeks washout from Prozac. Hurray!
Brian
Posted by Optimist on January 11, 2005, at 12:00:37
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion! » ace, posted by Optimist on January 8, 2005, at 9:39:20
I feel like a kid in a candy store! I just got back from my pdoc appt where we discussed switching to Parnate. She said she doesn't have much experience with them and that many of her patients are too scared to take them, but she usually lets me do what I want if I make a good case.
I said I basically was sick and tired of my depression and social anxiety and wanted to start trying the big guns, as I want to start getting my life in order. I said I can't afford to waste anymore time since I've been suffering for the last 10 years with this. Also my sister and father are on disability due to depression, and I don't want to join them. No offence to anyone that is on disability here. As you can imagine, I just want to get better.
So I have a 6 week washout of Prozac, but I can continue with the Wellbutrin until about a week before I start.
She originally wanted to put me on Nardil as she had heard many of the refractory patients in the hospital by her were using it. I felt that Parnate had less side effects and fit the profile of being more stimulating and dopaminergic which is what I tend to respond more to.
Now it's just waiting 6 weeks. Ughhh. My impression was that it only took 5 weeks for Prozac to washout of your system. Perhaps I can find some research that provides more accurate information.
Here's to hope of being a future Parnate champion!!!
Brian
Posted by KaraS on January 11, 2005, at 13:33:41
In reply to Re: Joining the MAOi club!, posted by Optimist on January 11, 2005, at 12:00:37
> I feel like a kid in a candy store! I just got back from my pdoc appt where we discussed switching to Parnate. She said she doesn't have much experience with them and that many of her patients are too scared to take them, but she usually lets me do what I want if I make a good case.
>
> I said I basically was sick and tired of my depression and social anxiety and wanted to start trying the big guns, as I want to start getting my life in order. I said I can't afford to waste anymore time since I've been suffering for the last 10 years with this. Also my sister and father are on disability due to depression, and I don't want to join them. No offence to anyone that is on disability here. As you can imagine, I just want to get better.
>
> So I have a 6 week washout of Prozac, but I can continue with the Wellbutrin until about a week before I start.
>
> She originally wanted to put me on Nardil as she had heard many of the refractory patients in the hospital by her were using it. I felt that Parnate had less side effects and fit the profile of being more stimulating and dopaminergic which is what I tend to respond more to.
>
> Now it's just waiting 6 weeks. Ughhh. My impression was that it only took 5 weeks for Prozac to washout of your system. Perhaps I can find some research that provides more accurate information.
>
> Here's to hope of being a future Parnate champion!!!
>
> Brian
Good luck Brian. As someone who is considering the MAOIs myself (but at present is to scared to take that last step) I'm very interested in hearing about your progress. Please keep us posted.K
P.S. Is your doctor going to prescribe anything for you in case of a hypertensive crisis?
Posted by Optimist on January 11, 2005, at 17:18:07
In reply to Re: Joining the MAOi club! » Optimist, posted by KaraS on January 11, 2005, at 13:33:41
> Good luck Brian. As someone who is considering the MAOIs myself (but at present is to scared to take that last step) I'm very interested in hearing about your progress. Please keep us posted.
>
> K
>
> P.S. Is your doctor going to prescribe anything for you in case of a hypertensive crisis?I mentioned it first, but she admitted that she didn't know of the appropriate drugs for that. I mentioned the Nif...(sp?) being the most popular and thorazine also being used. She's going to do some additional research on her own concerning it, then we are going to meet in another 4 weeks with our treatment strategy.
I love my pdoc... well er in a professional way at least. :) She seems to be very open minded, with little to no ego. She's not conservative by any means either which I like with regards to types of drugs, and amounts. She seems to push the envelope. I also like the fact that she welcomes my research and input on my future treatment. It makes it very comforting that I have some element of control in this whole thing. I don't know what I'd do if I had a pdoc that only prescribed SSRI's like a lot of people on this board and discourage any kind of input. My appt's are also 45 min long which I like cause we can work on some cognitive therapy as well.
Kara, I wouldn't worry too much about the danger aspects of MAOi's. I think it is honestly overblown and a lot of media/marketing hype. Gathering from the glowing testimonials on this board, combined with the very low incidences of hypertensive crisis and drug interactions it looks like a great choice.
I'm going to follow the 1998 Sunnybrook MAOi diet recommendations, and be careful on any other drugs I put in my body. I'll triple check with internet sources, my pdoc, and pharmicist, so I don't see much danger there either.
I've noticed from reading the archives that you've been inquiring about the MAOi's for quite some time. At least half a year. I'm sure you have enough information at this point, and know it's the right choice, it's just making the decision and following through with it. I have no anxiety about switching at all. Anticipation more than anything.
Good luck what ever you choose.
Brian
Posted by KaraS on January 11, 2005, at 17:28:50
In reply to Re: Joining the MAOi club! » KaraS, posted by Optimist on January 11, 2005, at 17:18:07
> > Good luck Brian. As someone who is considering the MAOIs myself (but at present is to scared to take that last step) I'm very interested in hearing about your progress. Please keep us posted.
> >
> > K
> >
> > P.S. Is your doctor going to prescribe anything for you in case of a hypertensive crisis?
>
> I mentioned it first, but she admitted that she didn't know of the appropriate drugs for that. I mentioned the Nif...(sp?) being the most popular and thorazine also being used. She's going to do some additional research on her own concerning it, then we are going to meet in another 4 weeks with our treatment strategy.
>
> I love my pdoc... well er in a professional way at least. :) She seems to be very open minded, with little to no ego. She's not conservative by any means either which I like with regards to types of drugs, and amounts. She seems to push the envelope. I also like the fact that she welcomes my research and input on my future treatment. It makes it very comforting that I have some element of control in this whole thing. I don't know what I'd do if I had a pdoc that only prescribed SSRI's like a lot of people on this board and discourage any kind of input. My appt's are also 45 min long which I like cause we can work on some cognitive therapy as well.
>
> Kara, I wouldn't worry too much about the danger aspects of MAOi's. I think it is honestly overblown and a lot of media/marketing hype. Gathering from the glowing testimonials on this board, combined with the very low incidences of hypertensive crisis and drug interactions it looks like a great choice.
>
> I'm going to follow the 1998 Sunnybrook MAOi diet recommendations, and be careful on any other drugs I put in my body. I'll triple check with internet sources, my pdoc, and pharmicist, so I don't see much danger there either.
>
> I've noticed from reading the archives that you've been inquiring about the MAOi's for quite some time. At least half a year. I'm sure you have enough information at this point, and know it's the right choice, it's just making the decision and following through with it. I have no anxiety about switching at all. Anticipation more than anything.
>
> Good luck what ever you choose.
>
> Brian
Thanks. I really wish I were as optimistic as you are (but then you're still on medication). I think I would feel better about this whole thing if I had health insurance in case of any problems.I don't think I've been inquiring about this for as long as 6 months though. I was thinking that it was only about a month but maybe I'm forgetting. That's when I first started seriously considering an MAOI.
Your doctor doesn't happen to be in the LA area, does she?
Anyway, good luck again. I can't wait to hear about your success!
K
Posted by Optimist on January 11, 2005, at 23:04:43
In reply to Re: Joining the MAOi club! » Optimist, posted by KaraS on January 11, 2005, at 17:28:50
> Thanks. I really wish I were as optimistic as you are (but then you're still on medication). I think I would feel better about this whole thing if I had health insurance in case of any problems.
>
> I don't think I've been inquiring about this for as long as 6 months though. I was thinking that it was only about a month but maybe I'm forgetting. That's when I first started seriously considering an MAOI.
>
> Your doctor doesn't happen to be in the LA area, does she?
>
> Anyway, good luck again. I can't wait to hear about your success!
>
> KI don't have health insurance either. I'm paying out of my own pocket, although meds are a little cheaper in Canada. I get the odd Wellbutrin sample but mostly I have to pay for it myself since I don't always get much. The Prozac and Adderall came straight out of my pocket. It gets expensive. Around 200 bucks a month but I'd prefer meds to no meds. I'm much better off with them.
Oh sorry, I saw a post from you in July that was inquiring about them so I assumed you had been thinking about it for a long time. It must've been a random question.
Actually my pdoc is from the Toronto area which is a little ways away. :)
Supposedly Parnate isn't too expensive. I asked the pharmacy where I live today the prices for it and they said 23 bucks for 30, 10mg pills, so it's not too bad.
I'll keep you informed on my progress. :)
Brian
Posted by KaraS on January 12, 2005, at 1:11:57
In reply to Re: Joining the MAOi club! » KaraS, posted by Optimist on January 11, 2005, at 23:04:43
> > Thanks. I really wish I were as optimistic as you are (but then you're still on medication). I think I would feel better about this whole thing if I had health insurance in case of any problems.
> >
> > I don't think I've been inquiring about this for as long as 6 months though. I was thinking that it was only about a month but maybe I'm forgetting. That's when I first started seriously considering an MAOI.
> >
> > Your doctor doesn't happen to be in the LA area, does she?
> >
> > Anyway, good luck again. I can't wait to hear about your success!
> >
> > K
>
> I don't have health insurance either. I'm paying out of my own pocket, although meds are a little cheaper in Canada. I get the odd Wellbutrin sample but mostly I have to pay for it myself since I don't always get much. The Prozac and Adderall came straight out of my pocket. It gets expensive. Around 200 bucks a month but I'd prefer meds to no meds. I'm much better off with them.
>
> Oh sorry, I saw a post from you in July that was inquiring about them so I assumed you had been thinking about it for a long time. It must've been a random question.
>
> Actually my pdoc is from the Toronto area which is a little ways away. :)
>
> Supposedly Parnate isn't too expensive. I asked the pharmacy where I live today the prices for it and they said 23 bucks for 30, 10mg pills, so it's not too bad.
>
> I'll keep you informed on my progress. :)
>
> Brian
Brian,Yeah, I think that post in July was probably just informational. I'll have to check it out again though.
I wasn't so much concerned about the cost of the medication. I just want to be sure that I have coverage at a hospital in case of any problems. Since you're in Canada fortunately that isn't an issue for you.
I have a feeling this is going to be a great medication for you (or maybe your optimism is contagious)!
Take care,
K
Posted by gromit on January 12, 2005, at 7:44:53
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion! » KaraS, posted by KaraS on January 4, 2005, at 18:24:13
> Costco carries it at a cheaper price and you can get it for less from Canada. I don't have insurance so I'll probably end up getting it from Canada.
The problem with Costco is they only sell it by the case. :0
Posted by cathead69 on January 12, 2005, at 23:42:53
In reply to Re: I want to be a Parnate champion! » KaraS, posted by cubbybear on January 5, 2005, at 1:13:57
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