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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 26 to 50 of 50. Go back in thread:
Posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 2:18:11
In reply to Re: To Tom » ed_uk, posted by TomG on December 11, 2004, at 21:07:20
Hello Tom,
I'm not sure where you live but here in England (where we don't have Geodon) we have amisulpride (Solian) which is not usually very sedating.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 10:33:54
In reply to Re: To Tom, posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 2:18:11
Ed, Yes I am very interested in Amisulpride (Solian). I talked to my doctor about it, but he said he'd never heard of it. That seems right, because I don't think many American doctors dabble in European drugs. However, I may discuss this further with him if all else fails. Amisulpride is a very specific drug in that it only hits D2 and D3 dopamine receptors. I have no idea where I would order it from. Do you? It is nice to have it as an option if the other AP's don't work out.
Posted by Sebastian on December 12, 2004, at 10:34:47
In reply to Re: IM AFFRAID TO TRY CLOZARIL!!!, posted by Jeroen on December 11, 2004, at 15:28:14
You might want to take a AD! You can still take a AP with it in addition.
Posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 10:52:54
In reply to Re: To Tom » ed_uk, posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 10:33:54
Hi Tom,
Unfortunately, I don't know where you could get Solian. I imagine that you'd probably be able to get hold of it if you tried though!
I don't know why Solian isn't available in America. It seems strange because the FDA and the MHRA (UK) seem to agree on most things.
Have you tried any other APs apart form Geodon?
The late-onset drowsiness which you described reminds me of how I get late-onset sedation with SSRIs. After all, Geodon is a weak serotonin reuptake inhibitor so perhaps it might have a similar effect.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by Jeroen on December 12, 2004, at 11:18:45
In reply to Re: To Tom, posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 10:52:54
im considering to take an anti depressant but it doesnt cure my problem
its like feeling happy while having Tardive dyskinesia
UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Jeroen on December 12, 2004, at 11:33:43
In reply to Re: To Tom, posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 10:52:54
what should i do now???
take zyprexa high dose? like 20 mg, after 3 weeks i felt a change in the blinking... but i gained weight even when taking NIZATIDINEi now have AMANTADINE, weight loss is reported here..
I REALLY DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO....
Posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 11:42:49
In reply to Re: To Tom, posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 10:52:54
Ed, yes the late onset drowsiness is what made me suspicious about the whole thing. For two months on Geodon I couldn't have been better. It was the perfect drug and then the sleepiness set in. The weird thing about it is that I don't sleep all day. I still have mental energy but this veil of sleepiness is over me all day. It is sort of a paradox, because I'm sleepy but awake and I don't really feel like going to sleep. Right now I'm getting some information on Solian together to show to my doctor. I was able to get the full prescribing information on the web. The AP's I've tried are as follows:
Abilify 15mgs- caused akathisia after only a few days so I stopped. I saw no benefit at 15mgs, but I'm now thinking that the akathisia could have covered up any symptom control. I will probably try this next at a lower starting dose.
Zyprexa 15mgs- gained near 25lbs. and slept all the time with no symptom control
Risperdal .75mgs- this is a very low dose and I didn't go any higher. At the time I was also taking Lamictal. I saw no benefit at that low dose of .75mgs and I didn't stay on it for very long
Seroquel- I have only taken this 25mgs at a time to sleep. Of course it had no impact on symptoms at this super low dose. Like I said it was given to me only to sleep.
Thats about it. I'm anxious to see what all the AP's will do because even though they are in the same class they are drastically different drugs from one another. I was misdiagnosed for so long because I was not hearing voices and was having some hypomania from other drugs that were only targeting depression. I know now that I need an antipsychotic and hopefully it will only be a matter of time before I find the right one that leaves me with little to no side effects.
Posted by pretty_paints on December 12, 2004, at 13:02:34
In reply to Re: To Tom » ed_uk, posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 11:42:49
Hi Tom_G,
I was interested by your post a little earlier on about your diagnosis.
I too have suffered with psychosis, mainly paranoia and delusions. I've never heard voices either.
I've been ill for a few years, but was only put onto an AP about six months ago. My doc says it is too early to diagnose any more than "a psychotic illness".
If you dont mind me asking, what was the sequence of events that led up to your diagnosis? How long did it take to be diagnosed? And how bad were your delusions/paranoia?
Thanks for any info!! You're the first schizophrenic-without-hearing-voices I've read of.
Cheers :) x
Posted by Sebastian on December 12, 2004, at 14:15:28
In reply to Re: To Tom, posted by Jeroen on December 12, 2004, at 11:33:43
Have you tried any weight loss drugs? Majorly powerfull ones. Maybe something like zantrex 75?
Posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 14:57:42
In reply to Sorry if I'm going off topic a bit...., posted by pretty_paints on December 12, 2004, at 13:02:34
pretty paints, Unfortunately my diagnosis has been a long time in the making. I started to know something was wrong about eighteen or nineteen when I started using illegal drugs. I'm 29 now. I was using pot, LSD, cocaine, X, and almost anything else I could get my hands on. But, the bad thing is that I wasn't enjoying the drugs. They made me suspicious of friends, withdrawn, and left me in a highly confused state. I know those drugs will do that to anybody, but now that I can analyze the situation with a clear mind I know that my behavior during that time was much different compared to my friends who were doing the same drugs. My symptoms had been emerging for some time prior to drug use, but the drug use in a sense brought everything closer to the surface so to speak. At 21 after going into an amphetamine psychosis from cocaine use one evening I went into an outpatient rehab program where I was assigned a psychiatrist who thought I needed to be on Prozac. This sent me into about a three month hypomanic episode. At the time I didn't even know what hypomania was much less think that I had a mental illness, because I felt great. To make this long story shorter after I came down from the hypomania I tried in and out for several years to regain what the Prozac had given me. I've had over 8 doctors in that time. Doctors thought that I had social anxiety and doctors thought I might be bipolar, but none of the medicines to treat those disorders helped me one bit. My paranoia and delusions presents itself in thinking there is a cospiracy against me in the town that I live in that people know there is something wrong with me. And sometimes I even thought that my parents may have given me the illness to some extent and that they planned it all. Usually I don't fully believe the delusions. Half of me wants to believe and the other half doesn't so I wasn't completely involved in false beliefs. Also I had a very inflated sense of myself and thought that I was better than everyone else. This is not uncommon with paranoia and more accurately paranoid schizophrenia. So, I don't know if I have full blown schizophrenia. When I ask my doctor if he thinks I do he always replies, "Do you think you have schizophrenia?" I think that there is enough evidence there and I believe he does too. He is a great doctor and although I have taken medicines other than AP's over the two years I've seen him at my request he has stuck by his belief that I need to stick to AP's based on the symptoms I've relayed to him. I finally hit jackpot although its not a full jackpot with Geodon. It has put an end to my suffering for the most part, but I am just so sleepy. More than anything it has left me in control of my thoughts. Before Geodon my thoughts were out of control. They were very disorganized and negative, and I was confused most of the time. I now think that I have schizophrenia based on my response to Geodon and my relation to most of the symptoms of schizophrenia that have been in evolution over about ten years. It is not full blown schizophrenia nevertheless it is still a form of mild schizophrenia. To me it has been more of a thought disorder with depression and anxiety accompanying the paranoia and disorganization. I guess I can be very thankful that I don't hear voices.
Posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 15:11:30
In reply to Re: To Tom » ed_uk, posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 11:42:49
Hi everyone,
One of the reasons that classical neuroleptics are frequently so poorly tolerated by patients is that they are sometimes prescribed such vast doses. 'Overdosing' patients on haloperidol (Haldol) has been particularly common, especially before the atypical antipsychotics were available. The British National Formulary used to state that doses of up to 200mg/day of haloperidol could be used for the treatment of schizophrenia. The maximum dose has now been reduced to 30mg/day but this is still far in excess of the optimum dose for most patients. Consider that some people with schizophrenia only need 0.5mg a day!! Trials comparing atypical APs to Haldol have sometimes used large Haldol doses of up to 20mg/day!! Such trials have usually been concluded by triumphantly announcing the superior tolerability of the new drug. Trials such as these inevitably overexaggerate the advantages of atypicals- mmm I wonder WHY such high doses of Haldol are used? Maybe the pharm companies are afraid that if low doses of Haldol were used the side effect profile of their new and highly expensive drug might not prove to be superior at all!!!
Very low doses of haloperidol seem to be just as effective as high doses for the majority of patients. Only a small minority of people will gain additional benefit from high doses but the side effects of high dose are commonly intolerable. Adverse effects such as akathisia are very much dose-dependent.
2mg/day of haloperidol can be an effective treatment for schizophrenia.......
This double-blinded, randomized controlled study compared the efficacy and tolerability of 2 vs. 8 mg/d of haloperidol over 6 wk in 40 subjects with first-episode psychosis. Both treatments were equally effective in reducing the PANSS Total and subscale scores. The low dose of haloperidol was better tolerated, with fewer extrapyramidal side-effects, less frequent use of anticholinergic medication and smaller elevations in prolactin levels. Using a low dose of haloperidol is at least as effective as, and better tolerated than a high dose of haloperidol in the treatment of first-episode psychosis.
Sometimes, doses of haloperidol <1mg/day are best....Determining the optimal dose of haloperidol in first-episode psychosis.
This study set out to determine whether ultra-low doses of haloperidol could successfully treat patients with first-episode psychosis. Thirty-five patients with a first episode of psychosis were treated with haloperidol in an open label, fixed protocol over a 12-week period with doses restricted to 1 mg per day for the first 4 weeks. Twenty-nine (83%) remained on haloperidol after 12 weeks at a mean dose of 1.78 mg per day, 16 (55%) had stabilized on 1 mg/day or less. The mean percentage reduction in Positive and Negative Symptom Scale score between baseline and 6 and 12 weeks was 30.3% (SD 20.9%) and 41.4% (SD 16.6%), respectively. There were *no* significant differences in mean extrapyramidal symptom ratings between baseline and 12 weeks. Ultra-low doses of haloperidol are effective and well tolerated in first-episode psychosis. Initial doses should be maintained for a sufficient period of time to allow for the medication to take full effect.
To summarise.... many of the alleged advantages of atypicals may in fact be an artifact of the trials which have compared their safety and efficacy to vastly excessive doses of classical neuroleptics.
The tendency of doctors to prescribe mega-doses of haloperidol is mirrored by the haloperidol (Haldol/Serenace) products available on the UK market........
20mg Serence tablets ahhhh!
Single Serenace ampoules of 20mg.
Unfortunately, Haldol is not the only classical AP that people have received excessive doses of.... fluphenazine, trifluoperazine and other potent D2 antagonists have also been used to excess.
My message is.....Although the discovery of the atypical APs has been a great advance, the superior tolerability of the newer drugs has been overstated. Although the atypicals have been a miracle for some people, others might be substantially better off on low doses of older drugs.
Even the dreaded haloperidol has advantages....
Small weight gain compared to most atypicals. Occasionally causes weight loss!
Few autonomic side effects eg. low risk of hypotension.
*Low* doses often produce little sedation.
Risk of extrapyramidal side effects depends on dose, low doses are substantially more tolerable.
Risk of TD is reduced by using low doses.
It is very cheap.
It has been available for a long time and has been studied in a large number of clinical trials.
My own experience with classical APs (Thorazine for anxiety) was that low doses were relatively easy to tolerate. High doses caused such severe side effects that I would not wish such torture on my worst enemy.It scares me to think that some patients who become agitated due to APs may have their dose increased by doctors who are unaware of the fact that APs can induce severe agitation and even panic in some individuals.
To Tom..... some people find low doses of trifluoperaine (Stelazine) activating. As ever, high doses are likely to make you feel (and look) dreadful.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 15:38:44
In reply to Classical Neuroleptics- to Tom (and all pdocs)., posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 15:11:30
Ed, thank for the post. Yes, low dose Haldol or Orap has been in my plans for quite some time now. They are very potent AP's that can yeild very postive results in low doses and produce very little sedation.
Posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 15:48:41
In reply to Re: Classical Neuroleptics- to Tom (and all pdocs). » ed_uk, posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 15:38:44
Hi Tom,
Since even low doses of haloperidol pose a disturbingly high risk of tardive dyskinesia I certainly think that you should try Solian first though!!
I just get annoyed when I see studies comparing atypicals with massive doses of Haldol... it's unethical :-(
Good luck on the quest for the perfect AP,
keep us all updated.....Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 16:05:13
In reply to Re: Solian, posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 15:48:41
I just wanted to say.... it must be very difficult for you to make a decision about your future treatment. Geodon has been effective and well tolerated apart from the sedation (I think). When switching to another drug you are taking the risk that it might not be effective and the side effects might be worse. I really hope you find a effective treatment which is also well tolerated. The risk of TD from Solian seems to be low but it's still quite new (as is Geodon).
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 16:15:15
In reply to Re: To Tom, posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 16:05:13
I wish more than ever it was easier to give Solian a try. Do you think you could easily find out some way if they plan to release it in the U.S.? My doctor said there is usually an American equivalent to European drugs although I don't think that there is anything similar to Solian. I did read on crazymeds.org that Solian was a similar drug in action to Orap that I mentioned earlier. Orap was probably one of the last conventional AP's to be marketed so it is even relatively new. I also don't know if I need a perscription to get it from overseas. I don't know if my doctor will go along with writing a script and faxing it a European pharmacy either. There are alot of "if's" with Solian, so it might have to be one of my last resorts.
Posted by pretty_paints on December 12, 2004, at 16:47:59
In reply to Re: To Tom » ed_uk, posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 16:15:15
Hey Tom,
Thanks so much for your post. It was really interesting. The story of your life so far doesnt seem like mine so much, but your actual symptoms etc seem the same. I'm 20 at the moment and came to see a pdoc first off for major depression. It was only after we'd tried loads of ADs and I still didnt feel much better, that my pdoc tried an AP. Then slowly as I got better, my thoughts started to come out. I didnt mention any of them before because as far as I was concerned, they were true. So why would I need to mention them to the doctor?!
One thing I will just ask you though. All of my delusions used to center around being persecuted etc etc and I never thought I had the delusions of grandeur. You know you mentioned having an "inflated sense of self", its making me wonder. I have always believed that somehow, after all this is over and I am better again, I will be famous. I will discover something or invent something and everyone will know me. I've always thought this is normal teenage-type ambition. But do you think it could be abnormal? I don't know.
Anyway thanks so much for replying to my post.
Hope you are doing well now. Keep in touch!
Kate xx
Posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 16:53:56
In reply to Re: To Tom » ed_uk, posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 16:15:15
Hi Tom,
Pimozide (Orap) causes a relatively high incidence of extrapyramidal side effects. It's generally more like haloperidol than amisulpride. Also, pimozide has a reputation for causing arrhythmias :-(
Sulpiride has been available in England for a very long time. It is very similar to amisulpride. (Note the spelling of sulpiride!.... you probably already know it but I just thought I'd mention it in case you didn't).
I think you should educate your doctor about amisulpride, you could print some articles out. There is a lot of info available on www.pubmed.com
Relatively low risk of TD with Solian.....Am J Psychiatry. 2004 Mar;161(3):414-25. Related Articles, Links
Lower risk for tardive dyskinesia associated with second-generation antipsychotics: a systematic review of 1-year studies.Correll CU, Leucht S, Kane JM.
Department of Psychiatry Research, Zucker Hillside Hospital, North Shore-Long Island Jewish Health System, Schneider Children's Hospital, Glen Oaks, NY 11004, USA. ccorrell@lij.edu
OBJECTIVE: Based on lower rates of acute extrapyramidal side effects associated with second-generation antipsychotics, compared to first-generation antipsychotics, and based on preliminary data, second-generation antipsychotics are expected to cause less tardive dyskinesia than first-generation antipsychotics. This hypothesis was examined in a systematic review of studies involving open or controlled treatment with any second-generation antipsychotic. METHOD: Studies of treatment with second-generation antipsychotics lasting > or =1 year and reporting on new cases of tardive dyskinesia or dyskinesia were systematically reviewed. RESULTS: In 11 studies, 2,769 patients received treatment with risperidone (five studies, N=1,235), olanzapine (two studies, N=610), quetiapine (two studies, N=386), amisulpride (one study, N=331), or ziprasidone (one study, N=207) for a weighted mean and median duration of 263 and 306 days, respectively. Study designs were double blind and randomized (N=3); open-label extensions of double-blind, randomized trials (N=4); and open label (N=4). Of the four trials that had a comparator (all involving adults with schizophrenia spectrum disorders), three used haloperidol (N=408) and one used placebo (N=71). Studied populations included children (N=77), adults (N=1,419), adults and elderly persons (N=794), and exclusively patients age 54 years or older (N=479). The weighted mean annual incidence of tardive dyskinesia for second-generation antipsychotics was 0% in the children, 0.8% (range=0.0%-1.5%) in the adults, 6.8% in the mixed adult and elderly population, and 5.3% (range=0.0%-13.4%) in the patients age 54 years and older, compared to 5.4% (range=4.1%-7.4%) in adults treated with haloperidol. CONCLUSIONS: Results from 11 long-term studies support the idea that second-generation antipsychotics have a reduced risk for tardive dyskinesia, compared to first-generation antipsychotics, although the doses of haloperidol used in the comparator studies were relatively high. More carefully designed studies, ideally lasting beyond 1 year and comparing the effects of different second-generation antipsychotics in patients who have never taken first-generation antipsychotics, are needed to estimate the true risk. It would not appear premature for clinicians to consider these findings in making long-term treatment decisions.
Although low doses of Haldol are generally better tolerated than high doses, the risk of TD is very worrying. This study finds that the risk of TD with *very low* doses is lower than the risk of TD with *not quite so low* doses. Sadly, the risk of TD with *not quite so low* doses is still very high, similar to the rate previously reported with high doses.J Clin Psychiatry. 2003 Sep;64(9):1075-80. Related Articles, Links
Incidence of tardive dyskinesia in first-episode psychosis patients treated with low-dose haloperidol.Oosthuizen PP, Emsley RA, Maritz JS, Turner JA, Keyter N.
Department of Psychiatry, University of Stellenbosch Faculty of Health Sciences, P.O. Box 19063, Tygerberg 7505, South Africa. pieto@samedical.co.za
BACKGROUND: Previous studies suggest that the risk of tardive dyskinesia is increased with higher doses of conventional antipsychotics. This study evaluates the 12-month incidence of tardive dyskinesia in subjects with first-episode psychosis who were treated with very low doses of haloperidol. METHOD: Fifty-seven subjects with first-episode psychosis and a DSM-IV diagnosis of schizophreniform disorder, schizophrenia, or schizoaffective disorder were treated according to a fixed protocol with a mean dose of haloperidol of 1.68 mg/day and prospectively studied for 12 months. Subjects were assessed for extrapyramidal symptoms and psychiatric symptoms at 3-month intervals. Data were gathered from 1999 to 2001. RESULTS: Twelve-month incidence of probable or persistent tardive dyskinesia according to Schooler and Kane criteria was 12.3% (N = 7). Subjects with tardive dyskinesia did not differ from the rest of the sample regarding gender, race, duration of untreated psychosis, or baseline clinical characteristics. Subjects with tardive dyskinesia were older compared with subjects without tardive dyskinesia (37.14 +/- 9.23 vs. 27.30 +/- 8.09 years, respectively; t = -2.77, df = 30, p = .01) and received higher mean doses of haloperidol at 12 months (2.80 +/- 1.64 vs. 1.39 +/- 0.69 mg/day, respectively; t = -3.13, df = 25, p = .004). Cox regression analysis revealed that age at inclusion (p = .031), percentage change in negative symptoms (p = .028), and dose of haloperidol at 12 months (p = .016) were significant predictors of risk for tardive dyskinesia. CONCLUSION: Incidence of tardive dyskinesia was at least as high as in other samples treated with standard doses of conventional antipsychotics. Subjects at risk for tardive dyskinesia could not be identified on the basis of initial clinical features or acute treatment response. Risk of tardive dyskinesia was related to age, antipsychotic dose, and worsening of negative, depressive, and parkinsonian symptoms.
From a Cochrane review of Solian.....CONCLUSIONS: This systematic review confirms that amisulpride is an effective 'atypical' antipsychotic drug for those with schizophrenia. Amisulpride may offer a good general profile, at least compared to high-potency 'typical' antipsychotics. It may also yield better results in some specific outcomes related to efficacy, such as improvement of global state and general negative symptoms. It might be more acceptable and more tolerable than high-potency conventional antipsychotics, especially regarding extrapyramidal side-effects.
Once your pdoc knows more about Solian he might prescribe it. You might be able to get it from a European Pharmacy.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by Jeroen on December 12, 2004, at 16:55:29
In reply to Re: To Tom » ed_uk, posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 16:15:15
i live in belgium i know some people who tryed solian, should i ask my doctor if he give me a prescription for you? i dont think it will work.. but hey i can try
Posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 18:12:23
In reply to To TomG, posted by pretty_paints on December 12, 2004, at 16:47:59
I think its absolutely normal to think that you will one day be famous. If you want to do something you have to believe you will attain your goals. I believed that I was actually better than everyone else. I guess it was sort of an extreme snobbishness thinking that I was smarter and better in every aspect of life. I seemed to be above it all when in reality I was very sick and not even performing at half a normal human. However, I considered this to be low on the list of my worst symptoms, because I was living as a recluse and being very withdrawn. At the time I didn't think it was a symptom. I sort of feel like it was almost a coping mechanism to the paranoia and anxiety. My brain and I didn't know what was happening so I just starting assuming that I was better than everyone. Its hard to explain and you might not be able to understand unless you live it. I hope this helps. I don't think that believing you will be famous is what I have described. Good luck at your treatment. I think AP's are good drugs. If one doesn't work keep trying because like I said they are all really drastically different from one another. Also its very important to tell your doctor everything even the most minute details you might think are irrelavent.
Posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 18:13:23
In reply to Re: To Tom, posted by Jeroen on December 12, 2004, at 16:55:29
To Tom,
If you'd like to try sulpiride it seems to be available in most countries apart from the US so you should be able to get hold of it somehow!
Ed.
Posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 18:18:53
In reply to Re: To Tom, posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 16:53:56
Thanks Ed, I'm going to my doctor tommorrow and I think we are going to retry Abilify now. But, I will compile some literature on Amisulpride and start mentioning it at each meeting. I like the look of Solian because it is very specific at what it does in the brain instead of the shotgun effect of most other AP's out there.
Posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 18:25:36
In reply to Re: To Tom, posted by Jeroen on December 12, 2004, at 16:55:29
No thanks Jeroen. If my doctor agrees to it then I will get a perscription from him and have it faxed to Farmacia Cerati in Italy. Alot of people use it here on the board and they will accomodate most medicines I believe if you have a legitimate U.S. perscription. The only problem is getting my doctor to go along with a plan like this. I guess we'll see. If I reach the end of my rope and my doctor doesn't agree with my plan I'm sure there are even ways of getting it without a prescription. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
Posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 18:28:00
In reply to Re: To Tom » ed_uk, posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 18:18:53
Good luck with Abilify!
As far as I know, amisulpride is available in Italy, Portugal and France as well as the UK. Not sure about anywhere else. In Italy and Portugal it is approved for use as an antidepressant as well as an antipsychotic.
Sulpiride is used all over Europe!Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 19:16:01
In reply to Re: To Tom, posted by ed_uk on December 12, 2004, at 18:28:00
To illustrate my point that it is very important to avoid the use of excessive doses of neuroleptics I thought I'd post this little abstract.....
Arzneimittelforschung. 1978;28(9):1491-2.
[Dose-effect relations. Doubleblind study on two different doses of pimozide (author's transl)]
[Article in German]
Fleischhauer J.
Two identical groups of schizophrenic patients were treated for 28 days randomized with 3 and 8 mg of pimozide. In the antipsychotic efficacy no difference could be seen. Difference was in side effects: The 8-mg group had three times more extrapyramidal signs, mostly akathisia and agitation, and needed seven times more minor tranquilizer than the 3-mg group. Severe agitation as a psychotic symptom was equal in both groups. Preference therefore is given to the smaller dosage.
NB. The potency of pimozide is similar to haloperidol.
Posted by pablo1 on December 15, 2004, at 9:29:45
In reply to Re: To Tom » Jeroen, posted by TomG on December 12, 2004, at 18:25:36
I'm pretty sure that they no longer offer solian even with a prescription. It is also available in Mexico & much of South America but when I was in Mexico recently nobody carried it.
> No thanks Jeroen. If my doctor agrees to it then I will get a perscription from him and have it faxed to Farmacia Cerati in Italy. Alot of people use it here on the board and they will accomodate most medicines I believe if you have a legitimate U.S. perscription. The only problem is getting my doctor to go along with a plan like this. I guess we'll see. If I reach the end of my rope and my doctor doesn't agree with my plan I'm sure there are even ways of getting it without a prescription. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
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