![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1142 to 1166 of 1838. Go back in thread:
Posted by rainy on November 11, 2004, at 15:41:26
In reply to Re: Topamax: weight loss/mild depression » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 11, 2004, at 13:38:34
And we are all different. I'm so weight obsessed I would be sorely tempted to take Topamax for weight loss only and am delighted that weight loss was one of its serendipitous side effects for me, so I don't have to compromise my values and make the decision that Sheley is facing. I'm remaining on it (if the insurance company obliges, we seem to be having a bit of a problem there) because it's controlling the stupid eating disorder and my maybe still extant tendency to self medicate with alcohol.
Also, I don't want to gain back whatever weight Topamax helped me lose. So it seems like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. I think the drug is more poisonous than other stuff I'm taking--maybe, maybe not. I don't want to stop it. It's a trade off I've decided to make.
And you're right, at least according to the neurologist I saw recently who had such bad things to say about the drug--all the adverse effects (except loss of eyesight, I think) are dose related and reversible.
But if it's used only for weight loss and the the happy loser stops and the weight returns, what then? That's why I haven't given away my "fat clothes", even though they're miles too big--I don't trust this skinny me.
I'm not sure Topamax is doing it's mood stabilizing job here in rainyville. Both therapist and pdoc think I'm in manic mode--not hypo but the big M. Point being insurance may not pay and this drug is not cheap. If I have to go back to work, and it may come to that, I will have to stop the medicine. It may be to my benefit.
Your cognive impairment sounds wild and wild, Kat. What a rich experience you are having and I'm not saying that in jest. I hope you're writing it down.
good luck here, Sheley--we've each had different experiences and have different opinions. I would also be tempted to use OTC diet pills but they are murder on our bodies, too. I'm going to shut up for awhile now.
rainy
Posted by headachequeen on November 11, 2004, at 18:04:40
In reply to Re: Topamax: weight loss/mild depression, posted by rainy on November 11, 2004, at 15:41:26
> I would also be tempted to use OTC diet pills but they are murder on our bodies, too. I'm going to shut up for awhile now.
> rainy
>Most of the OTC diet pills have been demonstrated as being highly dangerous... some with even lethal effects...
so not really a good option...
many cause strokes... one of the best reasons I can think of not to take them...this is indeed a wild ride...
side effects??? I seem to have them by the car load and not to medications, but to the need for medication...I am keeping that journal... I think that is rule 16...
my appointment with the neuro clinic has been moved up.. or maybe I have that wrong; maybe the appt with the clinic is the same and this is an appt with the neurologist himself...
this has been a fascinating journey but I wish it has been someone else taking it...
kat
Posted by stresser on November 11, 2004, at 18:49:26
In reply to Re: Topamax: weight loss/mild depression » stresser, posted by iris2 on November 11, 2004, at 13:14:11
ok, I got this entire post ready to send, and there was a problem and it woudn't work. Now, I don't want to re-type it, because I'm afraid it wont' go again. Does that make sense? Why me!!!!! The topamax is helping her moods, to my suprise! We didn't expect that one, and that's not why she started taking it as you well know. She says she is happy, and says that it's starting to help her binge eating. The doc wants to keep her on it for now. The saga continues. -L
Posted by stresser on November 11, 2004, at 18:59:13
In reply to Re: Topamax: weight loss/mild depression, posted by Sheley on November 10, 2004, at 21:00:11
Shelly,
Having just read all of the posts, I wanted to tell you that I find EVERYONE on here extremely supportive. We may not like what each other has to say, but hearing the truth is sometimes difficult. It help us make important discisions, and gives us a different view on our problems. I consider these people actaul friends, even though I have never met them. Keep posting, this is the best therapy.......and it absolutly FREE!!!! -L
Posted by merry on November 11, 2004, at 19:59:25
In reply to Re: Topamax: weight loss/mild depression, posted by stresser on November 11, 2004, at 18:49:26
I'm taking topomax because I'm bipolar and I use it to keep my moods under control. I was using lithium and depakote but they turned me unto this big balloon woman. This made my depression worse. My pdoc switched me to topomax because of it's mood stabalizing effects without weight gain. I haven't gained weight. I lost weight. I am still losing weight. Slowly. It's a bonus to feeling better. I feel happier. I feel calmer.
merry
Posted by merry on November 11, 2004, at 20:24:51
In reply to Re: Topamax: weight loss/mild depression, posted by rainy on November 11, 2004, at 15:41:26
>I'm not sure Topamax is doing it's mood stabilizing job here in rainyville. Both therapist and pdoc think I'm in manic mode--not hypo but the big M. Point being insurance may not pay and this drug is not cheap. If I have to go back to work, and it may come to that, I will have to stop the medicine. It may be to my benefit.
How is it that your docs don't think that it's not working rainy? How long have you been taking it? This worries me. Why would you think it would benefit you to stop treatment? Are you just going to just give up? Being manic makes you feel like you don't need help. That all is well. That you're just fine now and you don't need meds anymore. But remember after being on a high for a while you will come crashing down!!! And that will be the pits!!! That is when you will feel horrible and the depression is very harsh and painful. Will you be able to function at work then? While your in a deep depression? Maybe the dose needs to be adjusted or maybe topomax just isn't working anymore and you may need to try something else like Zonegran.
If you are on a manic phase right now please be careful. If you have anything at home, like xanax or risperdal, you may want to take some as prescibed to help the manic stage be milder.merry the worrywart
Posted by rainy on November 11, 2004, at 20:46:59
In reply to For rainy, posted by merry on November 11, 2004, at 20:24:51
Bless you, merry. They think I'm manic because I'm doing a lot of stuff. LikE organizing a small out of class study group for my spanish class. Facilitating a small group (clumsily I'm afraid) in my church. joining a committee in another church as well as one in my own. considering voluntering in planned parenthood, calling people in the group up and appropriately talking with them--things that are out of character for me.
At the same time, especially since starting provigil (and the Bush election didn't help), I've been flat out dark depressed, fleetingly suicidal, like black birds flying through my head, tearful, that bit. Obsessing about stuff and unable to shut up my chatterbox mind. Not racing thoughts, just chatter. Feeling like I'm on speed. I told my pdoc about all of this in detail yesterday.
I don't think the Topamax is working with mood stabilization. It's expensive even with insurance and we don't have a lot of money. If the insurance won't pay, I may be forced to stop it. I'm not going to stop antidepressants like wellbutrin and deseryl which I'm on now, but I'm not going on another mood stabilizer that will cause weight gain or, get this, hair loss. Does zonogram(?) do either? Our culture has done a good job.
Thanks for being a worrywort. I was thinking as I read your prior post how nice you sound.
rainy
Posted by redscarlet on November 11, 2004, at 21:14:43
In reply to Re: For rainy » merry, posted by rainy on November 11, 2004, at 20:46:59
rainy ~ I'm on Zonegran and have no hair loss from it. I lost TONS of hair on Topamax.
HTH
Posted by rainy on November 12, 2004, at 6:01:34
In reply to Re: For rainy, posted by redscarlet on November 11, 2004, at 21:14:43
Thanks, Redscarlet. Did you stop Topamax because of seeing your hair in places other than your head? I lost quite a bit of mine on Lamictal.
Very early this morning I looked up Zonegran on a site that I can't remember now, of course. All I could find was the consumer information--I was looking for the physician poop sheet. But what I read was pretty scary. It looks worse than Topamax in terms of cognitive impairment as well as other adverse effects. What kind of side effects have you experienced? How long have you been on it and at what dose? Has it had any effect on your weight or appetite? Was it prescribed as a mood stabilizer? Does it work?
Please write a paragraph on your experience with Zonegran. Points will be taken off for incorrect usage, spelling and run on sentences.I also read at that same site that desyrel (trazodone) and wellbutrin should not be taken at the same time. I don't mean by the clock. Anybody know why that is or have any other information? As I recall this was from the USP. I haven't read that in any other place, including the package insert.
Another heads up, something everybody probably already knows, is that Topamax can mess with oral contraceptives, (and maybe with patches and implants too?). It makes them less effective. Just for fun, so do a lot of antibiotics.
rainy
Posted by redscarlet on November 12, 2004, at 11:33:42
In reply to adverse effects, posted by rainy on November 12, 2004, at 6:01:34
rainy ~ I took Topamax for over two years and the only side effect I had from it was the hair loss. I even took mega dosages of vitamins to try to help with the hair loss but it never seem to make a difference. I still take the vitamins even now because Zonegran can have the same side effect, however I don't seem to have any hair loss from it.
I've been on the Zonegran since January 12 of this year. I went straight from 200mg of Topamax to 200mg of Zonegran (with no problems). With both the Topamax and the Zongran I don't notice any change in my appetite.
I did drop down my Zongran dose to 100mg a day for one month but just had to go back to the 200mg dose as of the 2nd of this month. I take Zonegran as my mood stabilizer for my bipolar disorder and it works very good for me.
As far as the cognitive impairment, I can't remember anything ! However I'm on other meds along with the Zongran.
I take 450mg of Wellbutrin and Geodon and just took myself off my 200mg's of Seroquel (over a period of time), which my pdoc does not know about ! But I was just to tired all the time and so far so good, I have much more energy. I have a pdoc appointment on the 30th and will decide if I'm going to spill the beans or not ! He's not going to be happy !!!
I also had memory problems on the Topamax too but I was on the other stuff when I was on that also.
With both the Topamax and Zongran I didn't have any of the tingling feelings or problems with my eyes. Soft drinks do taste funny but that's not a issue for me, I don't drink them any more, haven't for over three years, just water and de-caf coffee every once in a while for me.
So, I would have to say that Zongran is a very good med for me having tried all the other mood stabilizer out there, this one is a keeper.
Oh by the way, I'm a red head. Ok, it's bottled red, but red never the less ! My hair dresser say's I should have been born red !redscarlet... :-)
Posted by rainy on November 12, 2004, at 12:15:50
In reply to Re: adverse effects, posted by redscarlet on November 12, 2004, at 11:33:42
yeah, it's really hard to know which drug is causing which twitch unless you do a one at a time thing and that seems to be a rare phenomenon these days.
Thanks for your input. It's really helpful. I'm just wondering if there's such a thing as Topamax poop out like Prozac poop out.
It's good to hear that you manage your own meds
too. Sometimes it has unpleasant consequenses, though--I was kicked out of an internist's practice for increasing my diuretic without
telling him until I got to the office. I honestly didn't think it mattered. Good luck with your pdoc.Henna--that's what our daughter uses. I used to use Helene Curtis something or other Redhead Shampoo until it went off the market. Also sprays that stayed on the pillow and gels that ran down my neck. All for red hair without that all important gene.
I wondered what color your hair is. Your board name, which is so full of intrigue, seems to point toward red.
rainy
Posted by iris2 on November 12, 2004, at 13:20:17
In reply to Re: For rainy » merry, posted by rainy on November 11, 2004, at 20:46:59
I was reading your post and can not help but ponder if it is the provigil that is all or part of the manic problem you are having. Do you know if it started after you started taking the provigil? It really can cause hyper , nervous and perhaps manic type problems.
irene
Posted by iris2 on November 12, 2004, at 13:25:28
In reply to Re: Topamax: weight loss/mild depression, posted by stresser on November 11, 2004, at 18:49:26
I messed up too it does not look like the post I sent went all the way to get posted.
I wanted to say how glad I am that the Topamax is helping your daughter. I had thought she was taking it for her mood and binge eating. Many of us on this board take medicaation trials at infinatum with no efective results.
I am glad for her and you. She is lucky that something worked so quickly. Be happy for this is a great success.
irene
Posted by rainy on November 12, 2004, at 13:34:49
In reply to Re: For rainy » rainy, posted by iris2 on November 12, 2004, at 13:20:17
Yup. That what I think. I asked pdoc about it and she said to wait a little longer before giving up on it but I'm having real trouble anxiety wise today and longer may be shorter. In the meantime, deep breaths and kava tea. Also, ordinary conversations with people.
Maybe going to the grocery store like I'm preparing to do now. Boy, this is awful. She suggested 100 mgs in the AM and 100 at noon which might help.
rainy
Posted by headachequeen on November 12, 2004, at 15:43:38
In reply to Re: Topamax: weight loss/mild depression, posted by stresser on November 11, 2004, at 18:49:26
> ok, I got this entire post ready to send, and there was a problem and it woudn't work. Now, I don't want to re-type it, because I'm afraid it wont' go again. Does that make sense? Why me!!!!! The topamax is helping her moods, to my suprise! We didn't expect that one, and that's not why she started taking it as you well know. She says she is happy, and says that it's starting to help her binge eating. The doc wants to keep her on it for now. The saga continues. -L
This IS good news...
first she is talking to you about it all...
second she finds that it is helping mood and the binging...
thirdly, we look ahead to positive results...
as Pop Larkin in one of my favourite reads would say, 'Perfick!'
kat
Posted by headachequeen on November 12, 2004, at 15:45:58
In reply to For Shelly, posted by stresser on November 11, 2004, at 18:59:13
> Shelly,
>
> Having just read all of the posts, I wanted to tell you that I find EVERYONE on here extremely supportive. We may not like what each other has to say, but hearing the truth is sometimes difficult. It help us make important discisions, and gives us a different view on our problems. I consider these people actaul friends, even though I have never met them. Keep posting, this is the best therapy.......and it absolutly FREE!!!! -L
Oh, friends indeed... and therapy too...
this is a great place to find help...
trust me... I have tried the live sitting in a chair therapy recently and some other boards similar (forgive me for saying they are similar, mes amis) to this...
there is really no place like home, Toto...
there is a lot of help to be found here, Shelly...
kat
Posted by headachequeen on November 12, 2004, at 15:53:03
In reply to Re: Topamax: weight loss/mild depression, posted by merry on November 11, 2004, at 19:59:25
> I'm taking topomax because I'm bipolar and I use it to keep my moods under control. I was using lithium and depakote but they turned me unto this big balloon woman. This made my depression worse. My pdoc switched me to topomax because of it's mood stabalizing effects without weight gain. I haven't gained weight. I lost weight. I am still losing weight. Slowly. It's a bonus to feeling better. I feel happier. I feel calmer.
>
> merry
I remember when I was being treated for what was thought to be depression... every medication that was tried was one that caused weight gain...
well, now that is really helpful...
if I was not depressed to begin with, gaining enough weight to make me feel embarrassed to be seen in public and mine was a fishbowl existence given my job, was certainly going to create depression...
I know there are those on this board who think that people who are concerned about weight and the way they look are superficial, but it is anything but...
try standing up in front of five hundred or more people and making a presentation, or working on television and wondering if someone is going to confuse you with the Goodyear Blimp...
self-image is really important...
and when that weight is not something that can be removed with exercise and restraint...
I could starve myself for a week and not lose a pound (I know because I did just that and often... in an effort to regain control and to fit into clothes that looked suitable for work) and exercise was a lost cause... when you become exhausted carrying all that extra weight up two flights of stairs to your office and studios who can think of a strenuous work-out in the gym...
besides I did that too...
and I went biking and walking and hiking and back-packing and still didn't lose weight...funny, but my neuro, the first one, never mentioned a mood-stabilising effect of Topomax, but as I think of it, I have been much less inclined to fly off the handle these past few months...
there has to be a reason for it...
and don't anyone say it comes with maturity <g>
kat
Posted by headachequeen on November 12, 2004, at 16:03:08
In reply to Re: For rainy » merry, posted by rainy on November 11, 2004, at 20:46:59
> Bless you, merry. They think I'm manic because I'm doing a lot of stuff. LikE organizing a small out of class study group for my spanish class. Facilitating a small group (clumsily I'm afraid) in my church. joining a committee in another church as well as one in my own. considering voluntering in planned parenthood, calling people in the group up and appropriately talking with them--things that are out of character for me.
> At the same time, especially since starting provigil (and the Bush election didn't help), I've been flat out dark depressed, fleetingly suicidal, like black birds flying through my head, tearful, that bit. Obsessing about stuff and unable to shut up my chatterbox mind. Not racing thoughts, just chatter. Feeling like I'm on speed. I told my pdoc about all of this in detail yesterday.
> I don't think the Topamax is working with mood stabilization. It's expensive even with insurance and we don't have a lot of money. If the insurance won't pay, I may be forced to stop it. I'm not going to stop antidepressants like wellbutrin and deseryl which I'm on now, but I'm not going on another mood stabilizer that will cause weight gain or, get this, hair loss. Does zonogram(?) do either? Our culture has done a good job.
> Thanks for being a worrywort. I was thinking as I read your prior post how nice you sound.
> rainy
Oh, Rainy... this is not manic according to my good psychiatrist and I cannot remember the term she used for it...
rats... why does my memory fail me at these times...
this is a creative thing ...
and it is one of those things that goes with the so-called creative temperament....so do the darker moods I am afraid...but not the black suicidal things... those we do not want...
when the creative highs reach completion...
then the lows appear...
we achieve the creation of the new group or whatever it is we need to achieve and then we feel this huge emptiness...
and boum! there is a low...
it is what I live with all the time...
when I am on a creative surge I simply go and go and go, then I crash and burn until the next creative thing...
sometimes I am juggling several projects at once and have to hope they do not all reach completion at once or it is really bleak inside me...
there is a name for this...
and I do not remember it... and I am so angry with myself for forgetting it...
angry with me a lot lately...do not allow the really blackness in though...
start something new... it does not have to be as deep and demanding as the other projects...
you are a creative and self-demanding person...
and maybe not bi-polar or manic at all...and maybe redhead after all <G>
when you hit those black patches babblemail me... and we can talk as soon as my computer and I are speaking with each other... we keep getting power failures lately for some reason...
none of this suicide stuff...
you have too much to do yet and too much to offer...
you are such a special person...
let's channel that creativity and avoid the black holes...
you know where to find me...
you have beem here for me through all this chaos and that is so typical of your personality type... you need to be up and flying...
so soar...
kat
Posted by headachequeen on November 12, 2004, at 16:05:11
In reply to adverse effects, posted by rainy on November 12, 2004, at 6:01:34
> Thanks, Redscarlet. Did you stop Topamax because of seeing your hair in places other than your head? I lost quite a bit of mine on Lamictal.
>
> Very early this morning I looked up Zonegran on a site that I can't remember now, of course. All I could find was the consumer information--I was looking for the physician poop sheet. But what I read was pretty scary. It looks worse than Topamax in terms of cognitive impairment as well as other adverse effects. What kind of side effects have you experienced? How long have you been on it and at what dose? Has it had any effect on your weight or appetite? Was it prescribed as a mood stabilizer? Does it work?
> Please write a paragraph on your experience with Zonegran. Points will be taken off for incorrect usage, spelling and run on sentences.
>
> I also read at that same site that desyrel (trazodone) and wellbutrin should not be taken at the same time. I don't mean by the clock. Anybody know why that is or have any other information? As I recall this was from the USP. I haven't read that in any other place, including the package insert.
>
> Another heads up, something everybody probably already knows, is that Topamax can mess with oral contraceptives, (and maybe with patches and implants too?). It makes them less effective. Just for fun, so do a lot of antibiotics.
>
> rainy
>
Oh dear, memory cells are not working at all, but I remember trazodone... being on it for something... but nothing else... not even when or why...
time please and I shall see what I can remember...
kat
Posted by rainy on November 12, 2004, at 19:12:17
In reply to Re: adverse effects » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 12, 2004, at 16:05:11
Trazodone is the generic name for desyrel, an antidepressent that's somehow related to serzone. It's very sedating in higher doses and can cause a painful and prolonged erection in men--I was warned about that when I first took it years ago. It also makes you fat but so far so good. It works sometimes--my pdoc put me on it after serzone went off the market three or four months ago and at first it was OK. Now it appears to be fizzling out on me too.
Rats--supper has intervened between beginning this post and now so it must be an incomplete response. Sorry.
rainy
Posted by headachequeen on November 12, 2004, at 19:20:58
In reply to trazadone, posted by rainy on November 12, 2004, at 19:12:17
> Trazodone is the generic name for desyrel, an antidepressent that's somehow related to serzone. It's very sedating in higher doses and can cause a painful and prolonged erection in men--I was warned about that when I first took it years ago. It also makes you fat but so far so good. It works sometimes--my pdoc put me on it after serzone went off the market three or four months ago and at first it was OK. Now it appears to be fizzling out on me too.
>Trazodone is one of the earlier anti-depressants I was put on for the so-called seasonal affective disorder...
I can't remember if it was the first or the second... the first was the most incredible appetite suppresant I know that...
within hours of taking the first capsule I lost all interest in food...
and at that point I did not have a weight problem as in WEIGHT problem... I had an underweight problem and was seeing the hospital nutritionist on a weekly basis as they tried to find a way to get me to gain weight...
I had three children and looked as if I could be the poster child for one of the starvation countries...
as each session started with a weigh-in I used to thank my lucky stars that the layered look was in style and wear seven or eight layers of clothing... but she soon caught on to that...
then they gave me whatever it was to help with SAD... well that really helped with the weight thing!!!
but I think trazodone was the replacement...
and was later replaced when my new doctor... who is leaving next summer sigh...
came on the scene...
kat
Posted by stresser on November 12, 2004, at 20:47:22
In reply to Re: Topamax: weight loss/mild depression » stresser, posted by iris2 on November 12, 2004, at 13:25:28
Thanks everyone for the good word. I hope I'm not "jumping the gun", (my mom always says that phrase) with saying the topamax is going to work. That was just the latest word, and tomorrow is another day, and another mood. You know how teenagers change their minds!!!!
-L
Posted by bridgey1128 on November 12, 2004, at 23:30:48
In reply to Re: adverse effects » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 12, 2004, at 16:05:11
Kat, it sounds just like bipolar II
Posted by rainy on November 13, 2004, at 6:57:57
In reply to Re: For rainy » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 12, 2004, at 16:03:08
Agree, Bridgey, as much as I'd like to latch on to Kat's cool asessment. Unfortunately, the black holes can't be avoided--they used to open like pits to the netherworld under my feet as I took my morning walks. Now I never know when I'm going to fall on my face--another image--it just happenes. The triggers aren't consistent. The Topamax probably keeps me from staying there, but I'm falling further and flatter now than I did when I first began to take it a couple of years ago.
The suicidal ideation is just that--ideation, a surprise slap upside the head. Ravens zooming a short cut through my brain. Not to worry about.
The physical anxiety/restlessness/jitters of yesterday were awful and subsided completely when I finally gave in and popped .5 mgs Klonopin. I've been taking it almost daily for about two months, often as a sleep aid. It occured to me earlier in the week that there is the possibility of addiction here and I'd better be careful. So I stopped. Kat, I'll never learn about tapering, even after a dreadful experience going off the same med at a much higher dose a year ago. I guess after 4 mgs daily, I thought .5 inconsequential. So I'm thinking that while the provigil and wellbutrin are probably responsible for some of the ickiness right now, yesterday was compounded by Klonopin withdrawal.
May today be interesting in a good way for all of us.
rainy
Posted by headachequeen on November 13, 2004, at 10:12:15
In reply to Re: Topamax: weight loss/mild depression, posted by stresser on November 12, 2004, at 20:47:22
> Thanks everyone for the good word. I hope I'm not "jumping the gun", (my mom always says that phrase) with saying the topamax is going to work. That was just the latest word, and tomorrow is another day, and another mood. You know how teenagers change their minds!!!!
> -L
>Take every positive step and revel in it...
living with a teenager is not the easiest thing in the world when all is going well, when there are serious problems, we are well-advised to simply rejoice in the good moments... and that is the best advice anyone ever gave me. I pass it on to you.
M is telling you that she thinks things are improving; she is opening up and sharing her feelings... now you want it gift-wrapped? and did you want silver ribbons or blue with that? LOL
enjoy... worry about tomorrow when it gets here...
kat
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.