![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 35 to 59 of 77. Go back in thread:
Posted by AMenz on June 8, 2001, at 0:06:04
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression, posted by Anna P. on June 6, 2001, at 16:37:04
Anna,
Does tianeptine induce cycling in some bipolars like SSRI's do. Do you need a prescription. The IAS cite seems to be in the UK. Will they ship to US without prescription?
Are you happy with the drug? Is the anxiety ongoing or is it a transitory side effect.
> > Dear Anna-where did you buy tianeptine? And what dose do you use-I gather it might be 12.5 mg thrice daily. Any side effects? How long have you been taking it? And what's your diagnosis-mine's Bipolar II with accompanying OCD.
> > Glad for you,
> > mocdoc
>
> Hi Mocdoc,
>
> Tianeptine may be purchased at antiaging systems.
> There is no side effects exept the transient anxiety that can be resolved by taking
> Lorazepam. I'm treatment resistant BipolarII, so later on I had to augment Tianeptine either with Lithium or Topamax.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Anna P.
Posted by Miragee on June 8, 2001, at 12:54:48
In reply to Re: question for Miragee?, posted by AMenz on June 8, 2001, at 0:01:40
Hi,
The main symptoms are reactions, such as headache, backache, wheezing, depression (or inumerable other possibilities), *in* the presence of a chemical, any chemical (perfume, new paint, epoxy, automobile exhaust, newly dry-cleaned clothing, fabric softeners, pesticides, etc.). How do you feel when you walk down the detergent isle of a grocery store? Do you feel like you just have to get out of there? How do you feel when a co-worker who wears a great deal of perfume comes nearby? Do you feel fine at home but start getting a headache when you get to work in your brand new office? If your illness varies from your location, you probably have Multiple Chemical Sensitivity. (It has also been called Environmental Illness.)
Some people are victims of "Sick Building Syndrome" and are only sick when they are at work, usually a brand-new building full of formaldehyde-laden contruction materials. Older buildings can also be culprits if they are moldy.
If you feel better out in truly fresh air, a day at the beach or up in the mountains, but find the familiar lousy symptoms returning as soon as you get back home, that can be a clue. I became ill because my house had a low level gas leak.
Many people who have M.C.S. are also sensitive to particular foods. In my case, I discovered that if I stopped eating wheat products, my depression lifted! It isn't easy to avoid eating wheat, but the results were worth it.
In answer to your question about doctors who diagnosis this illness -- there are not many. This illness is "controversial" (it isn't controversial to those hundreds of thousands of us who are affected). I had to travel 350 miles to see the doctor who diagnosed me in 1990.
An excellent newsletter that addresses this illness in a practical and scientific, as well as encouraging, way is:
Our Toxic Times
Chemical Injury Information Network
P.O. Box 301
White Sulphur Springs, MT 59645What part of the country are you in? Maybe I can look in my latest issue and see if there are any physician references for your area.
> What are the symptoms of Multiple Chemical Sensitivity and what specialty of doctor diagnoses this.
>
> > Well - - - Do you want the long story or the short story?
> >
> > The semi-short answer is that I was diagnosed with Multiple Chemical Sensitivty in 1990. In 1998, I finally found a PDoc who understood this malady. In research with many MCS patients at a clinic in Dallas, Texas, he had discovered that Neurontin, in high dosages (from 3200 mg. per day up to 6000 mg.) gave relief. I was one of the lucky ones who responded well and my chemical sensitivity abated almost immediately. I started taking Nerontin in November 1998.
> >
> > However . . . I was still very sick and dependent on penicillin to control excruiciating mental symptoms. (This effect of the penicillin was discovered "by accident" when I had to take it for a dental problem).
> >
> > For more than two years, I tried to get someone to diagnose why I needed the penicillin. (And I tried to get someone to prescribe it -- you would have thought I was asking for powdered Oxycontin -- no one would prescribe that common antibiotic!)
> >
> > I finally found a "Lyme Literate" doctor who diagnosed me with Lyme Disease. I have the type that affects the Central Nervous System. In other words, it is in my brain.
> >
> > Now that I am on the antibiotics that work for me to treat chronic Lyme Disease (Penicillin and Flagyl and Bactrim), I have my life back.
> >
> > I have met others who have Lyme Disease, who also suffer from the chemical sensitivity. There might be some relationship between the two conditions. The Lyme "bugs" mess with your immune system something terrible if the disease is not discovered *immediately*. I do not know when I got Lyme Disease. I could have gotten it when I was a child or . . .
> >
> > So, I take my thirty plus pills six times a day and feel better than I have in twenty years!
> >
> >
> > > Dear Miragee,
> > > Thanks for the tip about Magnesium a no-no with Neurontin. By the way, what is the condition you're taking it for-surely not simple insomnia!
> > > Be well,
> > > mocdoc
Posted by AMenz on June 9, 2001, at 12:04:51
In reply to Re: question for Miragee? Symptoms of M.C.S. » AMenz, posted by Miragee on June 8, 2001, at 12:54:48
Thanks, I don't have it. It sounds to me that it is a developped sensitivity to a bunch of chemicals, and quite real. In the nature of an allergy or multiple allergy. (Had a friend almost die of allergy to virtually every food. Allergy was developed by a combination of eating exotic shellfish during a trip and the stress of a nasty divorce. So I really think these breakdowns in tolerance to environmental issues is possible specially brought on by stress).
Good luck
> Hi,
>
> The main symptoms are reactions, such as headache, backache, wheezing, depression (or inumerable other possibilities), *in* the presence of a chemical, any chemical (perfume, new paint, epoxy, automobile exhaust, newly dry-cleaned clothing, fabric softeners, pesticides, etc.). How do you feel when you walk down the detergent isle of a grocery store? Do you feel like you just have to get out of there? How do you feel when a co-worker who wears a great deal of perfume comes nearby? Do you feel fine at home but start getting a headache when you get to work in your brand new office? If your illness varies from your location, you probably have Multiple Chemical Sensitivity. (It has also been called Environmental Illness.)
>
> Some people are victims of "Sick Building Syndrome" and are only sick when they are at work, usually a brand-new building full of formaldehyde-laden contruction materials. Older buildings can also be culprits if they are moldy.
>
> If you feel better out in truly fresh air, a day at the beach or up in the mountains, but find the familiar lousy symptoms returning as soon as you get back home, that can be a clue. I became ill because my house had a low level gas leak.
>
> Many people who have M.C.S. are also sensitive to particular foods. In my case, I discovered that if I stopped eating wheat products, my depression lifted! It isn't easy to avoid eating wheat, but the results were worth it.
>
> In answer to your question about doctors who diagnosis this illness -- there are not many. This illness is "controversial" (it isn't controversial to those hundreds of thousands of us who are affected). I had to travel 350 miles to see the doctor who diagnosed me in 1990.
>
> An excellent newsletter that addresses this illness in a practical and scientific, as well as encouraging, way is:
>
> Our Toxic Times
> Chemical Injury Information Network
> P.O. Box 301
> White Sulphur Springs, MT 59645
>
> What part of the country are you in? Maybe I can look in my latest issue and see if there are any physician references for your area.
>
> > What are the symptoms of Multiple Chemical Sensitivity and what specialty of doctor diagnoses this.
> >
> > > Well - - - Do you want the long story or the short story?
> > >
> > > The semi-short answer is that I was diagnosed with Multiple Chemical Sensitivty in 1990. In 1998, I finally found a PDoc who understood this malady. In research with many MCS patients at a clinic in Dallas, Texas, he had discovered that Neurontin, in high dosages (from 3200 mg. per day up to 6000 mg.) gave relief. I was one of the lucky ones who responded well and my chemical sensitivity abated almost immediately. I started taking Nerontin in November 1998.
> > >
> > > However . . . I was still very sick and dependent on penicillin to control excruiciating mental symptoms. (This effect of the penicillin was discovered "by accident" when I had to take it for a dental problem).
> > >
> > > For more than two years, I tried to get someone to diagnose why I needed the penicillin. (And I tried to get someone to prescribe it -- you would have thought I was asking for powdered Oxycontin -- no one would prescribe that common antibiotic!)
> > >
> > > I finally found a "Lyme Literate" doctor who diagnosed me with Lyme Disease. I have the type that affects the Central Nervous System. In other words, it is in my brain.
> > >
> > > Now that I am on the antibiotics that work for me to treat chronic Lyme Disease (Penicillin and Flagyl and Bactrim), I have my life back.
> > >
> > > I have met others who have Lyme Disease, who also suffer from the chemical sensitivity. There might be some relationship between the two conditions. The Lyme "bugs" mess with your immune system something terrible if the disease is not discovered *immediately*. I do not know when I got Lyme Disease. I could have gotten it when I was a child or . . .
> > >
> > > So, I take my thirty plus pills six times a day and feel better than I have in twenty years!
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dear Miragee,
> > > > Thanks for the tip about Magnesium a no-no with Neurontin. By the way, what is the condition you're taking it for-surely not simple insomnia!
> > > > Be well,
> > > > mocdoc
Posted by AMenz on June 9, 2001, at 12:06:37
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression, posted by Anna P. on June 6, 2001, at 16:37:04
Anna,
Does tianeptine induce cycling in some bipolars like SSRI's do. Do you need a prescription. The IAS cite seems to be in the UK. Will they ship to US without prescription?Are you happy with the drug? Is the anxiety ongoing or is it a transitory side effect.
> > Dear Anna-where did you buy tianeptine? And what dose do you use-I gather it might be 12.5 mg thrice daily. Any side effects? How long have you been taking it? And what's your diagnosis-mine's Bipolar II with accompanying OCD.
> > Glad for you,
> > mocdoc
>
> Hi Mocdoc,
>
> Tianeptine may be purchased at antiaging systems.
> There is no side effects exept the transient anxiety that can be resolved by taking
> Lorazepam. I'm treatment resistant BipolarII, so later on I had to augment Tianeptine either with Lithium or Topamax.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Anna P.
Posted by Cecilia on June 11, 2001, at 3:19:07
In reply to amineptine/tianeptine for depression, posted by ian on September 12, 1998, at 11:59:46
Does anyone know about drug interactions with Tianeptine? I`ve considered giving it a try (ordering from Anti-aging systems). I already take Trazodone, Celexa, Clonazepam and Atenolol. (Plus Temazepam or Ambien prn). Nothing I have ever tried has ever really done anything for my depression, but these maybe keep some of the worst anxiety at bay, so I hate to go through a lengthy weaning process for something that probably won`t work either. The only thing the manufacturer lists about interactions is not to take with MAOI`s.
Posted by J Chemist on July 18, 2001, at 9:13:49
In reply to amineptine/tianeptine for depression, posted by ian on September 12, 1998, at 11:59:46
> Has anyone had experience with either of these European antidepressants
> Amineptine (Survector)
AMINEPTINE SURVECTOR SERDIA TAB 100 MG 10 tab. $13,20
> Tianeptine (Stablon)
TIANEPTINE STABLON SERDIA TAB 12.5 MG 10 tab $7,3send a email to chemist_j@hotmail.com
Posted by chrisman51 on August 11, 2001, at 18:04:01
In reply to amineptine/tianeptine for depression, posted by ian on September 12, 1998, at 11:59:46
Hello,
Im Italian, 50 years, and since 1 year and half in Italy the Amineptine is retired from commerce.
I took it during more than 10 years for my depression and it was WHAT IT SAVED ME.
Now since when amineptine was retired from commerce, I am soooo BAD.
Is there a way to buy Survector or similar ?
chrisman51@excite.it
Posted by garylee on February 23, 2003, at 18:38:27
In reply to Re: amineptine no longer available I have known a, posted by Justin on January 7, 2000, at 13:47:03
Do you still post on the board Justin? If you do I'd like to pick your brains re amineptine.
Cheers
Gary
Posted by lostforwards on October 20, 2004, at 21:14:01
In reply to amineptine/tianeptine for depression, posted by ian on September 12, 1998, at 11:59:46
off hand do you know the names of any drugs like amineptine that are around?
Posted by darkhorse on October 21, 2004, at 5:05:44
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression, posted by lostforwards on October 20, 2004, at 21:14:01
I think that Amineptine (Survector ) was banned from the world around 2000,and the french company that made it introduced Tianeptine instead....I think you won't find Amineptine legally...the reason they banned it was because of liver side effects + some cases of addiction/dependence
I took both : Amineptine is a pure dopamine reuptake inhibitor and in high dose it releases dopamine like a mild amphetamine...when I took it in the correct doses 200mg it made me very depressed but when I took it in high doese 600-800mg it gave me a stimulation similar to psedoephedrine or ritalin.
Tianeptine is also a clean drug that accelerate serotonin (Opposite od SSRI)...when I took it in regular dose it gave a serenic effect something between SSRIs and benzos,but when I increased the dose it stimulated me but made me gain weight?..I believe Tianeptine in high doses has an effect on dopamine too....
Anyway I discontinued all my AD's a year ago after trying nearly all what is out there in the world and found out that either they do not work or work wonderfully (Prozac,Effexor,Tofranil,Amitriptyline,Ludiomil,Parnate) but they all made me gain weight on the long term which I could not tolerate anymore....
Now I'm back with my normal weight and the only medications I take are the benzos(mainly Ativan,Xanax and Lexotan) because they are safe,extremley effective,very clean and do not cause weight gain,and am a lot happier now
Posted by t-rotten on October 23, 2004, at 17:36:16
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression+Benzo/wei, posted by darkhorse on October 21, 2004, at 5:05:44
> I think that Amineptine (Survector ) was banned from the world around 2000,and the french company that made it introduced Tianeptine instead....I think you won't find Amineptine legally...the reason they banned it was because of liver side effects + some cases of addiction/dependence
>
> I took both : Amineptine is a pure dopamine reuptake inhibitor and in high dose it releases dopamine like a mild amphetamine...when I took it in the correct doses 200mg it made me very depressed but when I took it in high doese 600-800mg it gave me a stimulation similar to psedoephedrine or ritalin.
> Tianeptine is also a clean drug that accelerate serotonin (Opposite od SSRI)...when I took it in regular dose it gave a serenic effect something between SSRIs and benzos,but when I increased the dose it stimulated me but made me gain weight?..I believe Tianeptine in high doses has an effect on dopamine too....
> Anyway I discontinued all my AD's a year ago after trying nearly all what is out there in the world and found out that either they do not work or work wonderfully (Prozac,Effexor,Tofranil,Amitriptyline,Ludiomil,Parnate) but they all made me gain weight on the long term which I could not tolerate anymore....
> Now I'm back with my normal weight and the only medications I take are the benzos(mainly Ativan,Xanax and Lexotan) because they are safe,extremley effective,very clean and do not cause weight gain,and am a lot happier nowHi! You said that when amineptine in 600-800mg has an good effect, but how much time you kept taking? It pooped up or you stopped with the amineptine working?
PS.: I live in Brasil ans SURVECTOR is avaliable as tianeptine too, and I liked the idea of to use a larger dose cause 200mg is too weak.
TKS
Posted by darkhorse on October 25, 2004, at 6:08:09
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression+Benzo/wei, posted by t-rotten on October 23, 2004, at 17:36:16
> > I think that Amineptine (Survector ) was banned from the world around 2000,and the french company that made it introduced Tianeptine instead....I think you won't find Amineptine legally...the reason they banned it was because of liver side effects + some cases of addiction/dependence
> >
> > I took both : Amineptine is a pure dopamine reuptake inhibitor and in high dose it releases dopamine like a mild amphetamine...when I took it in the correct doses 200mg it made me very depressed but when I took it in high doese 600-800mg it gave me a stimulation similar to psedoephedrine or ritalin.
> > Tianeptine is also a clean drug that accelerate serotonin (Opposite od SSRI)...when I took it in regular dose it gave a serenic effect something between SSRIs and benzos,but when I increased the dose it stimulated me but made me gain weight?..I believe Tianeptine in high doses has an effect on dopamine too....
> > Anyway I discontinued all my AD's a year ago after trying nearly all what is out there in the world and found out that either they do not work or work wonderfully (Prozac,Effexor,Tofranil,Amitriptyline,Ludiomil,Parnate) but they all made me gain weight on the long term which I could not tolerate anymore....
> > Now I'm back with my normal weight and the only medications I take are the benzos(mainly Ativan,Xanax and Lexotan) because they are safe,extremley effective,very clean and do not cause weight gain,and am a lot happier now
>
> Hi! You said that when amineptine in 600-800mg has an good effect, but how much time you kept taking? It pooped up or you stopped with the amineptine working?
>
> PS.: I live in Brasil ans SURVECTOR is avaliable as tianeptine too, and I liked the idea of to use a larger dose cause 200mg is too weak.
> TKS
Hi,I stopped Amineptine because I felt that I'm going to be dependant on it,escalating the dose to get more stimulation,so I could not live with the idea + I felt,like all other stimulants I took, that what I'm experiencing is an "artifical" stimulation not an "antidepressant " effect,unlike imipramine(Tofranil)which really got me through my depression without making me artifically "high".
Posted by pablo1 on October 26, 2004, at 0:09:30
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression+Benzo/wei, posted by t-rotten on October 23, 2004, at 17:36:16
I've been taking amineptine at a very low dose of 25mg. Higher doses do get me sort of high and euphoric but this low dose seems quite safe and effective. I'm also taking amisulpride at a very low dose of 12.5mg and it is even more subtle but is nice because it reaches a steady state. The two are similar in dopamine effect. I'm tempted to take more and have tried more but its really not that great for getting high and not terribly different from the low doses except some minor impairment and minor euphoria. Egads 800mg I can't imagine. At those doses amisulpride reverses action and decreases dopamine action and is used as an antipsychotic. I find the mild lift to be very good for me. Many thing are harmful in excess and beneficial in moderation. I should mention that I was quite sensitive to ritalin & adderall and only needed about 5mg. Any more just got me high & gave me headaches & feeling wired. These pure dopamine meds are much less troublesome for anxiety because they lack the norepenephrine action of traditional stimulants which my anxiety already gives me too much of. But I think I was way low on dopamine and I am not such a prude that I would consider it cheating to get my pleasure/reward system chemistry back up to what is probably a normal level. It is better than having to resort to other means of finding satisfaction from life.
> > I think that Amineptine (Survector ) was banned from the world around 2000,and the french company that made it introduced Tianeptine instead....I think you won't find Amineptine legally...the reason they banned it was because of liver side effects + some cases of addiction/dependence
> >
> > I took both : Amineptine is a pure dopamine reuptake inhibitor and in high dose it releases dopamine like a mild amphetamine...when I took it in the correct doses 200mg it made me very depressed but when I took it in high doese 600-800mg it gave me a stimulation similar to psedoephedrine or ritalin.
> > Tianeptine is also a clean drug that accelerate serotonin (Opposite od SSRI)...when I took it in regular dose it gave a serenic effect something between SSRIs and benzos,but when I increased the dose it stimulated me but made me gain weight?..I believe Tianeptine in high doses has an effect on dopamine too....
> > Anyway I discontinued all my AD's a year ago after trying nearly all what is out there in the world and found out that either they do not work or work wonderfully (Prozac,Effexor,Tofranil,Amitriptyline,Ludiomil,Parnate) but they all made me gain weight on the long term which I could not tolerate anymore....
> > Now I'm back with my normal weight and the only medications I take are the benzos(mainly Ativan,Xanax and Lexotan) because they are safe,extremley effective,very clean and do not cause weight gain,and am a lot happier now
>
> Hi! You said that when amineptine in 600-800mg has an good effect, but how much time you kept taking? It pooped up or you stopped with the amineptine working?
>
> PS.: I live in Brasil ans SURVECTOR is avaliable as tianeptine too, and I liked the idea of to use a larger dose cause 200mg is too weak.
> TKS
Posted by sukarno on May 4, 2005, at 20:33:42
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression+Benzo/wei, posted by t-rotten on October 23, 2004, at 17:36:16
t-rotten said, "PS.: I live in Brasil ans SURVECTOR is avaliable as tianeptine too, and I liked the idea of to use a larger dose cause 200mg is too weak.
TKS"Please email me at xxx
Thanks! :-)
Paul
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 4, 2005, at 23:24:37
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression+Benzo/wei, posted by sukarno on May 4, 2005, at 20:33:42
> Please email me at xxx
Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US medication that hasn't been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration. This includes exchanging email addresses in order to exchange other information.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by geno on May 7, 2005, at 12:29:50
In reply to Re: mocdoc, posted by jodsteroo on June 7, 2001, at 20:00:15
IN reguards to Tianapine and Survector, Iv heard that Tianeptine works like a tiny dose of say extacy. (THIS is what 2 post were about year ago. Then Survector, A pro dopaminergic med, was like a light dose of amphetamine.
Why not just take a Adderall and something like L-tryptphan, and Lexapro. I dont think tianeptine is like a smalll dose of extacy but It has a different mechanism than SSRI. I dont see why survector , is not just scheduled if addictive but has benificial uses, why because of the reward pathway release just like amphetamines. Im sure amineptine (survector would be nice for taking amphetamine breaks. Welbutrin just wont do it
Posted by sukarno on May 7, 2005, at 15:21:44
In reply to Re: HAS ANYONE TRIED TIANEPTINE??, posted by mocdoc on June 6, 2001, at 16:40:19
Tianeptine made me feel "high" on two occasions...I don't know what I would compare it to. It might just have been a hypomanic episode and not a psychostimulant effect. I don't have bipolar, but any antidepressant has the potential to cause hypomania and even mania.
I remember feeling so "comfortable" and in a great mood and wanting to hug everything. I suppose that sounds slightly like MDMA. Could be it's action on serotonin.
I do know that if it wasn't for the headache that higher doses give me, I would probably take more tianeptine to try to feel that "boost" it gave me those few times. :)
In fact, tianeptine was classified as a controlled substance in Bahrain and Singapore due to a few cases of abuse.
I hope this one doesn't go the way of Survector. SSRI manufacturers were probably behind the demise of amineptine and I wouldn't be surprised if they tried the same against tianeptine, although tianeptine isn't all that good in most people from what I've read.
Survector was just too good of an antidepressant with far less side effects than others on the market. Something too good like that doesn't stand a chance against Eli Lilly, GlaxoSmithKline, AstraZeneca, etc.
Anything close to a "cure" for depression will be given the axe.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 8, 2005, at 12:55:34
In reply to Re: HAS ANYONE TRIED TIANEPTINE??, posted by sukarno on May 7, 2005, at 15:21:44
>Survector was just too good of an antidepressant
>with far less side effects than others on the >market. Something too good like that doesn't stand >a chance against Eli Lilly, GlaxoSmithKline, >AstraZeneca, etc.>Anything close to a "cure" for depression will be >given the axe.
Yup. I fully believe that had they not been discovered so early, MAOIs would've never been allowed on the market. When they work, they simply make the user feel real, real good and alive a lot of the time. That effect is worlds away from what SSRIs do; there is simply no comparison. Moreover, had they not the dietary restrictions and drug interactions, I believe they would've been pulled off the market for some trumped up reason or another. This happened to Merital (nomifensine) in the mid 80s. People felt really good when they took it: OOPS!
What it comes down to is that euthymic/hyperthymic people don't pay as much in taxes as unhappy people, because happy people find a lot more joy in activities that are intrinsically beneficial, such as being with and taking care of family and friends, spending time with lovers, volunteering for grassroots political organizations, artwork, spiritual expression, saving animals, exploring consciousness, EDUCATION (which brings poor nations the ability to feed themselves and as such is rationed out more strictly than food), etc. Those activities do not generate taxes for the military-industrial[-pharmaceutical] complex. This is why fenfluramine, a serotonin releasing drug more neruotoxic than MDMA (and structurally related to it), was yanked from the market only after a lawsuit (unrelated to neurotoxicity), yet MDMA is kept at schedule I purportedly and largely because of neurotoxicity. Fenfluramine didn't get you high, MDMA did. End of story.
"There is no such thing as a high taxpayer."
--Tibor Palfai, PhD.
That is the big secret rationale behind the drug war. When I was tipped onto that at age 21, it engendered some sort of extraordinarily powerful resentful emotion toward the establishment that can never be extinguished. So, sorry if I ramble way too much.
Posted by DavidH44 on January 9, 2006, at 10:51:58
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression, posted by andrewb on November 28, 1999, at 11:57:35
I took aminemptine (Survector) for several years in Chile in the 1990's and it worked great. If it is still available in Brazil (where I visit) or anywhere else I'd love to know. (Don't worry, I won't import it . . .)
I did some research when it was withdrawn, supposedly for abuse, but all the studies I found showed low abuse statistics -- and it was the most widely prescribed out-patient med in Europe for many years. The head chemist at the Chile firm that produced it under license said it had been withdrawn only because the French patent holder had a new drug (Stablon, tianeptine) that they expected to be more profitable.
I have not tried Stablon. As to its action, the chemist told me that they believed its mechanism was that REDUCING serotonin caused the brain to INCREASE dopamine, therefore producing an effect similar to Survector by a different method.
When I returned to the US no one knew about either drug so I tried Welbutrin since it was the only anti-depressant with a dopamine enhancer, and it was terrible for me: I had seriously uncontrollable episodes of rage that lasted for months even after I stopped taking the drug. Scared the hell out of me and my family.
I've tried a variety of things since then, and what seems to work best is something the docs say shouldn't work at all: a combination of low doses of zoloft and celexa, with amantadine (a dopamine enhancer prescribed for Parkinsons)
Just shows: people are different, and what works for one doesn't work for another. Psychiatric pharmacology is mostly flying blind, trial and error, not customized to the individual. Where's Timothy Leary when we really need him?
Good luck to all.
Posted by liliths on June 19, 2006, at 15:32:56
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression, posted by DavidH44 on January 9, 2006, at 10:51:58
does anyone have any current information about Tianeptine?
I notice this is from a very old thread. Anyone taking it now?
thanks,
lilith> I took aminemptine (Survector) for several years in Chile in the 1990's and it worked great. If it is still available in Brazil (where I visit) or anywhere else I'd love to know. (Don't worry, I won't import it . . .)
>
> I did some research when it was withdrawn, supposedly for abuse, but all the studies I found showed low abuse statistics -- and it was the most widely prescribed out-patient med in Europe for many years. The head chemist at the Chile firm that produced it under license said it had been withdrawn only because the French patent holder had a new drug (Stablon, tianeptine) that they expected to be more profitable.
>
> I have not tried Stablon. As to its action, the chemist told me that they believed its mechanism was that REDUCING serotonin caused the brain to INCREASE dopamine, therefore producing an effect similar to Survector by a different method.
>
> When I returned to the US no one knew about either drug so I tried Welbutrin since it was the only anti-depressant with a dopamine enhancer, and it was terrible for me: I had seriously uncontrollable episodes of rage that lasted for months even after I stopped taking the drug. Scared the hell out of me and my family.
>
> I've tried a variety of things since then, and what seems to work best is something the docs say shouldn't work at all: a combination of low doses of zoloft and celexa, with amantadine (a dopamine enhancer prescribed for Parkinsons)
>
> Just shows: people are different, and what works for one doesn't work for another. Psychiatric pharmacology is mostly flying blind, trial and error, not customized to the individual. Where's Timothy Leary when we really need him?
>
> Good luck to all.
Posted by sukarno on January 14, 2007, at 9:30:04
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression » DavidH44, posted by liliths on June 19, 2006, at 15:32:56
I've been on tianeptine for almost two years. Here are some websites that describe it in much more detail:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianeptine
Hope this helps! :-)
> does anyone have any current information about Tianeptine?
>
> I notice this is from a very old thread. Anyone taking it now?
>
> thanks,
> lilith
>
> > I took aminemptine (Survector) for several years in Chile in the 1990's and it worked great. If it is still available in Brazil (where I visit) or anywhere else I'd love to know. (Don't worry, I won't import it . . .)
> >
> > I did some research when it was withdrawn, supposedly for abuse, but all the studies I found showed low abuse statistics -- and it was the most widely prescribed out-patient med in Europe for many years. The head chemist at the Chile firm that produced it under license said it had been withdrawn only because the French patent holder had a new drug (Stablon, tianeptine) that they expected to be more profitable.
> >
> > I have not tried Stablon. As to its action, the chemist told me that they believed its mechanism was that REDUCING serotonin caused the brain to INCREASE dopamine, therefore producing an effect similar to Survector by a different method.
> >
> > When I returned to the US no one knew about either drug so I tried Welbutrin since it was the only anti-depressant with a dopamine enhancer, and it was terrible for me: I had seriously uncontrollable episodes of rage that lasted for months even after I stopped taking the drug. Scared the hell out of me and my family.
> >
> > I've tried a variety of things since then, and what seems to work best is something the docs say shouldn't work at all: a combination of low doses of zoloft and celexa, with amantadine (a dopamine enhancer prescribed for Parkinsons)
> >
> > Just shows: people are different, and what works for one doesn't work for another. Psychiatric pharmacology is mostly flying blind, trial and error, not customized to the individual. Where's Timothy Leary when we really need him?
> >
> > Good luck to all.
>
>
Posted by liliths on January 14, 2007, at 10:44:42
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression, posted by sukarno on January 14, 2007, at 9:30:04
Posted by liliths on January 14, 2007, at 13:08:34
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression, posted by sukarno on January 14, 2007, at 9:30:04
hi again
would you mind telling me dose you've been on and whether you also take any other meds?
I'm really trying to find something and it's coming down to tianeptine or EMSAM. Obviously, something with few side effects & restrictions would be optimal :)
thanks for you help
namaste,
lilith> I've been on tianeptine for almost two years. Here are some websites that describe it in much more detail:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianeptine
>
> http://www.tianeptine.com
>
> http://www.tianeptine.info
>
> Hope this helps! :-)
>
>
>
> > does anyone have any current information about Tianeptine?
> >
> > I notice this is from a very old thread. Anyone taking it now?
> >
> > thanks,
> > lilith
> >
> > > I took aminemptine (Survector) for several years in Chile in the 1990's and it worked great. If it is still available in Brazil (where I visit) or anywhere else I'd love to know. (Don't worry, I won't import it . . .)
> > >
> > > I did some research when it was withdrawn, supposedly for abuse, but all the studies I found showed low abuse statistics -- and it was the most widely prescribed out-patient med in Europe for many years. The head chemist at the Chile firm that produced it under license said it had been withdrawn only because the French patent holder had a new drug (Stablon, tianeptine) that they expected to be more profitable.
> > >
> > > I have not tried Stablon. As to its action, the chemist told me that they believed its mechanism was that REDUCING serotonin caused the brain to INCREASE dopamine, therefore producing an effect similar to Survector by a different method.
> > >
> > > When I returned to the US no one knew about either drug so I tried Welbutrin since it was the only anti-depressant with a dopamine enhancer, and it was terrible for me: I had seriously uncontrollable episodes of rage that lasted for months even after I stopped taking the drug. Scared the hell out of me and my family.
> > >
> > > I've tried a variety of things since then, and what seems to work best is something the docs say shouldn't work at all: a combination of low doses of zoloft and celexa, with amantadine (a dopamine enhancer prescribed for Parkinsons)
> > >
> > > Just shows: people are different, and what works for one doesn't work for another. Psychiatric pharmacology is mostly flying blind, trial and error, not customized to the individual. Where's Timothy Leary when we really need him?
> > >
> > > Good luck to all.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by sukarno on January 15, 2007, at 9:22:13
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression » sukarno, posted by liliths on January 14, 2007, at 13:08:34
Hi! :-)
The standard dose is 3x/day, but I've been taking it 4x/day for the most part, although I increased it to 5x/day to help me with my Valium taper.
I'm on Valium 2mg tablets (4 in the morning and 4 at night, down from 5 in the morning and 5 at night. I'm decreasing the dose of Valium by 2mg every two weeks.) and famotidine 40mg QID (4x/day) for acid reflux.
I think you'd prefer tianeptine over EMSAM. EMSAM might make you nervous, especially if you are prone to anxiety. Tianeptine has far fewer side effects. It has the least side effects of any drug I've tried (and I've tried a lot). :-)
I hope you can give it a try. It'll take a few weeks for it to start working and is quite anxiolytic too (without producing sedation, so you are still alert).
It helps me to worry less and reduces/removes the little aches and pains I had due to anxiety and depression.
Good luck! :-)
Posted by liliths on January 15, 2007, at 10:26:05
In reply to Re: amineptine/tianeptine for depression, posted by sukarno on January 15, 2007, at 9:22:13
thank you for the info... sounds like it might be worth trying first... though it's pretty expensive.
The cheapest I've been able to find still puts it at $100 for 120 pills - about a month's supply. Since I have to order it from overseas and my insurance won't pick it up, that's probably the only thing that has me wavering.
thanks again
namaste,
lilith> Hi! :-)
>
> The standard dose is 3x/day, but I've been taking it 4x/day for the most part, although I increased it to 5x/day to help me with my Valium taper.
>
> I'm on Valium 2mg tablets (4 in the morning and 4 at night, down from 5 in the morning and 5 at night. I'm decreasing the dose of Valium by 2mg every two weeks.) and famotidine 40mg QID (4x/day) for acid reflux.
>
> I think you'd prefer tianeptine over EMSAM. EMSAM might make you nervous, especially if you are prone to anxiety. Tianeptine has far fewer side effects. It has the least side effects of any drug I've tried (and I've tried a lot). :-)
>
> I hope you can give it a try. It'll take a few weeks for it to start working and is quite anxiolytic too (without producing sedation, so you are still alert).
>
> It helps me to worry less and reduces/removes the little aches and pains I had due to anxiety and depression.
>
> Good luck! :-)
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