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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 41. Go back in thread:
Posted by woolav on September 27, 2004, at 14:53:13
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by Mistermindmasta on September 27, 2004, at 13:00:44
I just want to say, I too drink coffee alot, for one the meds make me tired! And i do notice that when i am going to a social function,I either want an alcoholic drink or coffee beforehand. And I feel that coffee is the better choice of the two. It does get me more talkative and that is what ppl with SP need....
S
Posted by Optimist on September 27, 2004, at 15:02:34
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by Mistermindmasta on September 27, 2004, at 13:00:44
I'm curious. Would adderal have similar effects to caffeine? Is there anybody that's been on both and can compare. I know they have similar effects. The fact that adderal stays in your system longer is a bonus.
Posted by Stryker88 on September 27, 2004, at 16:32:35
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ??? » linkadge, posted by iris2 on September 27, 2004, at 10:52:29
My daily caffiene intake has been raised since I started taking Effexor xr 150mg I guess becuase of the unmanagable drowsiness.
morning-16oz cup of coffee
lots of water
morning-rockstar/or monter energy drink
lots of water
aftrnon-2000mg Panax Ginseng
aftrnon-50mg No Doz
lunch -coke or pepsi 12 oz can
break -cup of coffee
night -cup of coffee
night -diet coke 12 oz can
sleep
Posted by Stryker88 on September 27, 2004, at 16:34:47
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ??? » linkadge, posted by iris2 on September 27, 2004, at 10:52:29
This info was written by a Dr. Mcdougall.
http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougall/2004nl/040700coffeepf.htm
Posted by Optimist on September 30, 2004, at 20:15:21
In reply to Re: coffee helps Dr's article linklots of info, posted by Stryker88 on September 27, 2004, at 16:34:47
So... I was wondering. If I feel at my best with caffiene in my system what other drugs may be a better substitute?
I'm currently on 300mg of wellbutrin SR per day along with 1800mg of St. John's Wort. I take some tyrosine in the mornings or before a workout sometimes as well. Usually in dosages around 3 grams.
Currently if I take all my meds and pop a caffience pill or two I feel great, pretty much a 100%, but this does not last. I will have lots of energy for a few hours then crash shortly afterwards.
Funny as it may sound, caffiene feels like the best antidepressant I've ever taken. I have a pdoc appt tomorrow and was thinking about asking her to augment my treatment but am a little unsure in which direction at this moment.
I feel like the SJW is contributing to my apathy. It makes me feel unambitious, and not really concerned with my lot in life. I'm currently unemployed and need to focus my energy and ambition in that direction.
I feel the SJW is adding some positive effects though. I have some mild social anxiety and it seems to help with that. I've always felt shy and it seems to take the edge off somewhat. I figure I may need some kind of serotonin action.
So any ideas here? I'm thinking of either effexor, or prozac to replace the SJW, to basically do the same job but be more activating. Basically something that can be more activating but won't konk out after a few hours.
Posted by zeugma on September 30, 2004, at 20:24:56
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here?, posted by Optimist on September 30, 2004, at 20:15:21
Posted by iris2 on October 1, 2004, at 9:56:03
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here?, posted by Optimist on September 30, 2004, at 20:15:21
I don't know you very well but you are working out you have some physical energy and motivation.The caffiene is probably giving you a short lived boost in energy and some concentration. Think about how many people drink coffee around the 4 o'clock slump when people start feeling mentally and physically tired at work and drink a cup to kind of invigorate them to get through the rest of the day. It does not sound like it is working exactly like an antidepressant for you.
Can you describe your apathy more? Do you feel like on your current medications you could not work? Could you concetrate? Are you having trouble getting to a job? In other words are you having trouble motivating?
I think it is a little difficult for me to understand because even though you are posting this message that you think you should perhaps change meds because: "...feel unambitious, and not really concerned with my lot in life. I'm currently unemployed and need to focus my energy and ambition in that direction."
On one hand you say you are not really concerned and on the other you say you need to focus your energy and ambition. It sounds like perhaps you feel like you have energy and ambition but are not able to focus it?A lot of questions I know. It does not sound like you are in a real bad place now but I might not be reading you very well that is why I asked a lot of questions.
It is unclear exactly what symptoms you want to ameliorate with a medicine change so I would not know how to advise you. I might not know anyway but perhaps others on the site would.
irene
Posted by iris2 on October 1, 2004, at 9:59:02
In reply to provigil, if you can tolerate it (nm) » Optimist, posted by zeugma on September 30, 2004, at 20:24:56
Okay, nothing to do with the content of the post. I am still and forever trying to figure out all the abbreviations. I might sound dumb but what does (nm) stand for?
irene
Posted by zeugma on October 1, 2004, at 18:48:47
In reply to Re: provigil, if you can tolerate it » zeugma, posted by iris2 on October 1, 2004, at 9:59:02
Posted by Stryker88 on October 1, 2004, at 23:51:40
In reply to Re: provigil, if you can tolerate it » zeugma, posted by iris2 on October 1, 2004, at 9:59:02
I don't know how I can succeed at a high pressure job with a coffee addiction. Coffee makes me hyper therefore I somtimes make poor judgments, and it puts me into a fantasy world. In the middle of a hectic work-day, while having to deal with my boss, a cup of joe really, can cause me problems, it makes me do things I normally would not do otherwise.
Having said that coffee makes me feel alive, more alert, etc, however the feeling is short lived. I have to keep drinking coffee to stay at that level of high alertness.
Posted by Optimist on October 2, 2004, at 13:01:45
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here? » Optimist, posted by iris2 on October 1, 2004, at 9:56:03
Thanks Iris for the feedback. I was in a bit of a hurry when I sent my last post so it may have not been as easy to understand as I'd hoped.
My pain problem is more so with staying on task with motivation, concentration, and energy for a sustained period of time. I've had problems with lethargy for quite awhile... the last 8 years or so. I'm 27 now, and was introduced to coffee/caffiene at around 22. It did provide me with something I felt I had been missing for a long time. Namely cognitive improvement, motivation, and energy.
Yes I do exercise. It's been a huge part of my life for as long as I can remember. My nutrition and exercise are among my top priorities in life and always attend to those before spending money/time on other things which may be of more entertainment value. The exercise is therapeutic in a way in that I find it gives me a lot of benefits in terms of energy and mood. I've always been a great athlete and participating in sports, gives me a sense of happiness/accomplishment. A hobby of sorts. The time spent is nothing extreme though, around an hour and a half 3 times a week.
The main problem now which I eluded to before is the moodiness and energy fluctuations which is mainly cause by the caffiene. I am not surprised by this, but I find it hard to live without, since when I am on nothing I feel like a lump of coal anyways. I would rather feel good part of the time, rather than bad all of the time.
I went to my pdoc yesterday and got a script for Adderall. The doctor suggestioned that since it has a much longer halflife than caffiene that it may prove to be more beneficial. Yes, it may seem like patchwork using a stimulant... I'm trying to make informed decisions on future treatment with the help of my pdoc. I know there are many other drugs, i.e. provigil, mirapex, selegiline, etc... that work on the same NT's, so I do have an open mind on the treatment options on the future as well.
I am reacting quite well to the wellbutrin that I have been on the last few months. I have responded well to a dopamine agonist in the past as well (Vitex). It seems my main issues lie upon the norepinephrine and dopamine pathways.
I have sometimes wondered whether I may have partial bipolar symptoms. I do seem to fit some of the criterion although I don't think I'm a very good fit with respect to others. I've never had a problem with sleep for as long as I remember, and I know that sleep disturbances is one of the first indicators of bipolar. There does seem to be a yearly cycle to my depressions though. Winter and summer I tend to get depressed, while spring and fall I tend to feel better. The fluctations seem to make it hard for me to track whether I have mostly biological or cognitive problems leading to my depressions. I think that both may contribute. Both bipolar and depression runs in my family.
I don't think that I have ADD in particular. It's really hard to say. I took 20mg adderall for the first time this morning and this post seems to be the longest and quickest that I have wrote in a long time. It seems to be helping quite well in that regard. Time will tell if it is a better alternative to what I've been doing before.
As I've eluded to before, I pretty much feel perfect lately when the caffiene kicks in. The lack of sustaining that feeling is mainly the problem now. I am not suffering from any depressive symptoms which is very promising.
My apathy with regards to find a job and that I don't seem to care too much, I think is somewhat St. John's Wort induced. I definitely didnt' feel that way before. I had more of the ambition characteristics without the energy to fulfil my ideas. A lot of worry and guilt perhaps in regards to my inergic depression as well. Now some of my ambition seems to be sapped away, so that I am more happy doing nothing which isn't that productive either.
I know that I have some problems with decision making abilities which may have been contributed to by the caffiene use. With such fluctuations of energy, cognitive ability, and motivation throughout the day it makes it hard to stick to one goal. My decision making abilities is the major obstacle in me finding a job now. I have problems sticking to one idea and running with it. Kind of a analysis paralysis thing going on.
Well, we'll see how the adderall thing works out. Hopefully the adderall will give me more tools to work with here. Perhaps better concentration to help with my decisions... time will tell.
Posted by dazedandconfused on October 2, 2004, at 14:45:47
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here? Iris2, posted by Optimist on October 2, 2004, at 13:01:45
Optimist,
I don't know if you mentionined this already, but your symptoms all sound very much like ADD (which the adderall should be helpful for).Just my 2 cents
Posted by iris2 on October 2, 2004, at 14:55:21
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here? Iris2, posted by Optimist on October 2, 2004, at 13:01:45
It would appear that something like adderal that improves concentration is what you are looking for. You seem to have energy and some focus . Perhaps the adderal will improve the focus. That is one of the symptoms it is for. I need both energy ( I am very lethargic) and focus and concentration. I have a difficult time getting out of bed in the morning. No energy to do anything even though I want to and have a lot of guilt about it. I cannot focus and everything including responding to an email takes me a long time to do. So I am never sure what combination of meds to take. Unfortunately I cannot take the ones I really need because I have interstitial cystitis which makes it impossible for me to take most meds. So I think it is my lot in life to just suffer through it. I try to make it just a little better when I can. For instance I am able to take a little Amisulpride. It makes me so I am not suicidal all the time and occationally get up the motivation and energy to do something, Whether it be vacuming my home or walking the dogs. Unfortunately it does not much improve the anhedonia so I do not get much enjoyment out of what I actually get myself to do. The best is a sence of occomplishment. Things are always this way. I guess I am unloading because the past two or three days have been particularly diffficult. I have no idea why. It is almost 4 o'clock and I have not showered dressed or walked my dogs yet. I was supposed to cycle with my father at 10:30. He had to cancel but I was going to anyway. So now another say is almost over and I have not even gotten dressed yet. I just want to cry.
Sorry about the unloading. You just make me a bit jeolous I guess. But not in a bad way . Iam glad you are doing as good as you are.
I think adderal would help me a lot but I know i cannot take those stimulants because of my bladdr. I ws thinking of trying either Strattera or mirapex. Not sure which one I should try?
Thanks,irene
Posted by Optimist on October 2, 2004, at 22:59:50
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here? Iris2 » Optimist, posted by iris2 on October 2, 2004, at 14:55:21
> It would appear that something like adderal that improves concentration is what you are looking for. You seem to have energy and some focus . Perhaps the adderal will improve the focus. That is one of the symptoms it is for. I need both energy ( I am very lethargic) and focus and concentration. I have a difficult time getting out of bed in the morning. No energy to do anything even though I want to and have a lot of guilt about it. I cannot focus and everything including responding to an email takes me a long time to do. So I am never sure what combination of meds to take. Unfortunately I cannot take the ones I really need because I have interstitial cystitis which makes it impossible for me to take most meds. So I think it is my lot in life to just suffer through it. I try to make it just a little better when I can. For instance I am able to take a little Amisulpride. It makes me so I am not suicidal all the time and occationally get up the motivation and energy to do something, Whether it be vacuming my home or walking the dogs. Unfortunately it does not much improve the anhedonia so I do not get much enjoyment out of what I actually get myself to do. The best is a sence of occomplishment. Things are always this way. I guess I am unloading because the past two or three days have been particularly diffficult. I have no idea why. It is almost 4 o'clock and I have not showered dressed or walked my dogs yet. I was supposed to cycle with my father at 10:30. He had to cancel but I was going to anyway. So now another say is almost over and I have not even gotten dressed yet. I just want to cry.
>
> Sorry about the unloading. You just make me a bit jeolous I guess. But not in a bad way . Iam glad you are doing as good as you are.
>
> I think adderal would help me a lot but I know i cannot take those stimulants because of my bladdr. I ws thinking of trying either Strattera or mirapex. Not sure which one I should try?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> irene
Correct me but I may be wrong. Isn't strattera a stimulant similar to ritalin, dexedrine, adderall, and Cylert? I was under the impression that it was but I may be wrong.My energy, focus, and motivation aren't too terrible. I think one of the culprits is that I have high expectations of myself and won't do things that don't inspire me. I've been heavy in to all the motivational/self-help stuff in the past and am not willing to settle for certain things, which can be both good and bad.
I know creating high expectations, and having a perfectionist mindset can lead to depression and am trying to get away from those things. My main problem is my moodiness, and fluctuating energy, motivation, and cognitive abilities. I find it hard to make decisions cause my abilities feel like they change from time to time.
It may be possible that I have ADD symptoms. I have never thought of that before. I always did well in school as a child and didn't seem to have problems with staying on task then. Only until I got to university did I experience problems staying on track. I dropped out of school 3 or 4 times as I can recall and switched programs 3 times. I finally graduated from university this June and am happy to get it finished. I don't think my main problem was with actually doing the schoolwork, it was mostly my changing moods and how they would influence my decisions.
It's all pretty hard to figure it out. I'm trying to flesh everything out with my pdoc and figure out if the problems I'm having are biological or cognitive in nature. Usually this time of year (sept/oct) I'm feeling better anyways so it's hard to say. Usually in nov. is when I take a nose dive. I'll have to wait things out, and keep an open mind and not create any self fulfilling prophesies.
Today seemed quite promising. The adderall seemed to do a good job with regards to energy, motivation, and focus. I think I took a little too much today so I'm going to take a little less on mon. I want to make sure I take the minimum therapeutic dose, and take drug holidays on weekends if possible, to keep my receptors fresh. Amphetamines can be nasty so I've read, so I'm trying to go in to this with a fair amount of respect for the drug to make sure I don't abuse it. The fact that it has a high addiction potential makes me want to be as careful as possible. It's also damn expensive. I'm paying out of my own pocket, and at over 3 bucks a pill it gets expensive very fast.
I seem to react very well to stimulants though. I love caffeine, and never have any of the bad side effects other people have had i.e. jitters, anxiety, insomnia etc... I also tried cocaine once, and even though I really liked it I will never do it again. I found the feeling of wanting to do more 15 min later a very disconcerting feeling. It was more so an experimentation thing. That was a year and a half ago and I have no want to try it again. I'm lucky I don't have an addictive personality I guess. Lets cross my fingers for the adderall!
Posted by iris2 on October 2, 2004, at 23:32:47
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here? Iris2, posted by Optimist on October 2, 2004, at 22:59:50
Somehow I missed that you were already taking Adderal. How long have you been on it? Well I guess my guess was the same as your pdoc anyway.
I did use cocaine. I used it for three years like a medication. Almost exclusively at work to get through and function.I always get worse around November too. I used to end up in the hospital by December. I really think it is a seasonal componment to an already existing depression.
Strattera is marketed as the first non-stimulant ADHD medication. From what I have read it might not chemically be a stimulant but it acts somewhat like it. I thought I might try it because I need a stimulant and am unable to take them at all. I probably will not be able to take the Strattera either but I have a better chance. It was origonally going to be marketed as an antidepressant.
Good luck with the Adderal. Keep us posted.irene
Posted by Optimist on October 3, 2004, at 12:15:21
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here? Iris2 » Optimist, posted by iris2 on October 2, 2004, at 23:32:47
> Somehow I missed that you were already taking Adderal. How long have you been on it? Well I guess my guess was the same as your pdoc anyway.
> I did use cocaine. I used it for three years like a medication. Almost exclusively at work to get through and function.
>
> I always get worse around November too. I used to end up in the hospital by December. I really think it is a seasonal componment to an already existing depression.
>
> Strattera is marketed as the first non-stimulant ADHD medication. From what I have read it might not chemically be a stimulant but it acts somewhat like it. I thought I might try it because I need a stimulant and am unable to take them at all. I probably will not be able to take the Strattera either but I have a better chance. It was origonally going to be marketed as an antidepressant.
>
>
> Good luck with the Adderal. Keep us posted.
>
> irene
Irene, thanks for the info about the Strattera. I actually just started the adderall yesterday. So far I seem to like it quite well. It's added significantly to my energy, motivation, and ability to get things done throughout the day which is definitely an added bonus. I am a little weary of it though. I've heard of a lot of horror stories from amphetamine use and don't want to go down that path. I've never taken anything that has addictive qualities for a longer period of time, so am unsure of what will happen next. We'll see though. Hopefully this will be the thing I've been waiting for. I'm sure I'll find out shortly.Regarding your seasonal depression. Have you ever tried a light box? I bought one at the end of last winter as I noticed a possible pattern with my depressions. I think I may have some form of SAD so I bought a light box when I had the money. I'm hoping I don't have any problems this winter as I'm looking to be more proactive with regards to light therapy, and medication. I haven't been on antidepressants for very long in my lifetime so I'm still in the evaluation phase of it all it seems. Although I'm sure people who've been on longer are always evaluating as well with regards to medication poop out and trying to find something better when new treatments come out.
Posted by iris2 on October 3, 2004, at 12:39:53
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here? » iris2, posted by Optimist on October 3, 2004, at 12:15:21
Actually I do have a light box but I never used it long enough to tell if it made a difference. I keep telling myself I am going to get it out and set it up. Now would be the right time to do it!
Irene
Posted by Optimist on October 4, 2004, at 14:38:41
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here? » Optimist, posted by iris2 on October 3, 2004, at 12:39:53
> Actually I do have a light box but I never used it long enough to tell if it made a difference. I keep telling myself I am going to get it out and set it up. Now would be the right time to do it!
>
> IreneI have a little tiny one so it makes it easier. It's called a Litebook. It's dimensions are around 6 inches by 5 inches by 1 inch.
Posted by Stryker88 on October 4, 2004, at 15:20:51
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here?, posted by Optimist on October 4, 2004, at 14:38:41
Are these light boxes expensive?
Do you know a good place to buy?
Are they easy to set up?
Posted by Optimist on October 4, 2004, at 16:17:29
In reply to Re: light boxesare these expensive?, posted by Stryker88 on October 4, 2004, at 15:20:51
> Are these light boxes expensive?
> Do you know a good place to buy?
> Are they easy to set up?Yes they are quite expensive... ranging from 200 - 400 dollars. The one I got was around 300 CN I believe.
It's important to get a light box that is made specifically for SAD sufferers though. Do it your self models, or grow lights are either not strong enough to have any appreciable benefit or they emit ultraviolet rays which are damaging to the eyes.
The one I got that's called a Litebook I bought at a Shoppers Home Health care store not too far from where I live. You may have to order one off the internet though since not that many stores carry them.
Also check to see if your benefits will pay for the cost. With a prescription from a doctor some benefits cover light boxes.
Posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 12:21:03
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here?, posted by Optimist on October 4, 2004, at 14:38:41
I can't affor to spend anymore on my medical problems right now. I did read you could now get light bulbs that are full splectrum though.
Irene
Posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 12:38:47
In reply to Re: light boxesare these expensive?, posted by Stryker88 on October 4, 2004, at 15:20:51
Sorry bought mine years ago when they were still very expensive. I did post that I have read that you can now buy light bulbs that are full spectrum. I know my brother said that in Seattle you could go into lots of stores and but them . I have never seen them in Pittsburgh. I would go that route now if I did not have a box. You can just use them to sit under and read or do what ever you want. Instead of sitting a big box in front of you.
Someone posted that they have a small light:
"I have a little tiny one so it makes it easier. It's called a Litebook. It's dimensions are around 6 inches by 5 inches by 1 inch."I would check it all out on the net.
irene
Posted by Optimist on October 5, 2004, at 15:59:20
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here? » Optimist, posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 12:21:03
> I can't affor to spend anymore on my medical problems right now. I did read you could now get light bulbs that are full splectrum though.
>
> IreneI wouldn't think these lights would be strong enough. A usual lightbox will be 5000-10000 lux at 2 feet, for a half an hour of treatment. I heard the average light bulb is around 100 lux at 2 feet so there wouldn't be any real therapeutic effect.
Of course the one's you're talking about may be much stronger. I could be wrong in that regard.
Posted by gardenergirl on October 5, 2004, at 18:55:42
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here? » iris2, posted by Optimist on October 5, 2004, at 15:59:20
I purchased a floor lamp that emits 10,000 lux at full strength (it's dimmable) for $149 at Full Spectrum Solutions (online...can't find link but Google will). The model is the Ultra Lux. It came within 2 days, and I definitely notice a difference since using it.
gg
Posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 20:17:25
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here? » iris2, posted by Optimist on October 5, 2004, at 15:59:20
> I wouldn't think these lights would be strong enough. A usual lightbox will be 5000-10000 lux at 2 feet, for a half an hour of treatment. I heard the average light bulb is around 100 lux at 2 feet so there wouldn't be any real therapeutic effect.
>
> Of course the one's you're talking about may be much stronger. I could be wrong in that regard.Tell you what I will leave it up to you to investigate. I am interested though. So let me know what you find out. It would seem to me that the bulbs must have some usefulness though.
Irene
This is the end of the thread.
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