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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by robot on September 22, 2004, at 2:39:44
i dont even want to be here, you know? Posting to this board is an act with all these associations--of being depressed, of endless theorizing what is wrong what might work etc. Im sick of all of it. Ill even admit to not reading any other posts right now. Its too much to sift through all these posts of people suffering.
3 weeks ago I 'forgot' to take my lexapro. Then the next day I just decided I wasnt going to take it anymore. It wasnt helping, I still couldnt enjoy anything after 6 months, and being sexually androgenous was finally unacceptable. Plus I had started Wellbutrin a few weeks before; I could just be on that and see how it went.
For a few days I was in a mixed state--I felt a little more energetic, and my main symptom (the other being extreme anhedonia) of this weird inability to speak went away. And I was extremely irritable, not in a general way, but it was people who I just didnt have the patience for. A friend of mine was saying something I thought was so stupid and fake that I just ran him into the ground with a barage of counter arguments. But I didnt really care because I was feeling better. In a way it was even cathartic.
After a few days the irritability went away--probably just the withdrawal from the lexapro. The speaking problem stayed away too. Then I noticed I COULD ACTUALLY ENJOY THINGS. For the first time in 5 plus years. Music, playing music, talking, reading. I felt my body so much more and was comfortable in it. My nerve endings felt alive. Emotions existed again. I felt motivated and began to work on things again.
I saw my pdoc and told him the good news.
The good feelings lasted about 1.5 to 2 weeks. Now IM pretty much back to depressed. I feel a little better than I used to but thats it. I tried taking 2 today (300 mg) but it did nothing more.
Did quitting lexapro give me a temporary boost of some sort? In a way I was given a gift of knowing that I CAN still feel good. But now its just made me suicidal again. I thought those days were over. How can we ever trust in a good feeling again when time after time, again and again, we find we were wrong about thinking we were getting better? Its beginning to feel like a physical law of the universe to me.
Why does my brain prefer death to living?
How can people believe in a loving god or benevolent universe when there is so much pain in the world? Im becoming intolerant, which is unlike me, of everyone who I think believes in stupid things like religion or their ignorant politics.
I dont know what happened to me and I hardly want to think about thiese things anymore. I have no close friends who understand or care. which is fine if Im feeling like I did a few weeks ago but in this state its the last straw.
Im going to my pdoc's office tomorrow and demanding to see him if I have to wait all afternoon. Then Im going to tell him what happened and beg him to just give me something right now to make me feel better. Ill even cry if I have to.
Im thinking: What little the Wellbutrin is doing doesnt even kick in until like 12 hours after I take it! Im on XL slow day release. So my idea is to get on the regular version that immediately kicks in--I can take that in the morning for any immediate relief, then the slow release will give me an enduring cushion. If Wellbutrin will even do anyting for me.
With my ability to enjoy things I planned on going to see my favorite band this coming weekend. NOw its just a slap in the face to me. I could drive all the way there and sit there and watch them play and TRY, for 2 hours, to enjoy it. That doesnt make any sense. "Try to enjoy." Im not ever going to try to enjoy again--it just makes it worse. If youre enjoying it has nothing to do with trying. Ive tried rnning, meditation, positve thinking...no mental effort EVER has helped. The best I can do is keep reminding myself that its not my fault, remembering that its always the good feelings that come first then I begin to be active and productive again--the good feelings do not go away because IM not trying hard enough. Its the opposite.
People who have never experienced depression can never have the understanding of the world that we do. This makes me feel somewhat special but its not worth it, is it? And I see people who are able to enjoy everyday things and live in freedom--and they waste it believing in some horrible religion or whatever or doing nothing, just talking. They dont know how lucky they are! They just dont understand. If had the normalcy they have I would be taking over the world with my energy--which is what I began to do when I started feeling good!
NOw its gone. Its just chemicals. The universe doesnt care for us. It just doesnt. everything else is delusion. This doesnt mean we cant figure out how to make it better, I just havent been able to yet and I cant count on any cosmic interest to help me.
Here's to all of us on this board. We dont deserve what we've suffered, other people dont understand it, and we have the right to say that this is not the best of possible worlds to exist in.
Posted by Bill LL on September 22, 2004, at 9:24:47
In reply to To Everyone (And those trading SSRI for Welbutrin), posted by robot on September 22, 2004, at 2:39:44
Your experience is not uncommon. A lot of people feel better when they stop taking an antidepressant, but only for a short time. Then the depression often returns. I don't think that anyone really knows the reason for this.
I can think of 2 possibilities for you to try:
1) Just take Wellbutrin, but at a higher dose (don't increase the dose without consulting with your doctor)2) Take Cymbalta instead of Wellbutrin or Lexapro. Cymbalta may have a lesser degree of sexual side effects for some people. It also seems to be a very effective antidepressant.
Posted by nicolas on September 22, 2004, at 11:56:13
In reply to To Everyone (And those trading SSRI for Welbutrin), posted by robot on September 22, 2004, at 2:39:44
Hello,
I wish, for my sake, I didn't understand your frustration and despair. However, since I had a psychotic break two years ago I have been half a person, heavily medicated and unable to tell where my ilness comes from. I have a dwindling social-life and no libido. I supress suspicions everyday.
However, I can't agree with your atheism. Faith in God and the compassion born from that faith has been one of the ways I feel whole despite the dis-integration of mental-illness. I read you have practiced meditation. I urge you to return to that practice and cultivate a compassion that extends to yourself and begins to heal. I can tell, from your post, that you are a very compassionate person and I admire your righteous anger on behalf on the mentally ill. But I have found, when I have nothing, that only my relation to the spirit world restores me.
Posted by Questionmark on September 23, 2004, at 2:25:07
In reply to To Everyone (And those trading SSRI for Welbutrin), posted by robot on September 22, 2004, at 2:39:44
i just had to say that i can identify with these well-written words so much.
> "i dont even want to be here, you know? Posting to this board is an act with all these associations--of being depressed, of endless theorizing what is wrong what might work etc. Im sick of all of it."
>"With my ability to enjoy things I planned on going to see my favorite band this coming weekend. NOw its just a slap in the face to me. I could drive all the way there and sit there and watch them play and TRY, for 2 hours, to enjoy it. That doesnt make any sense. "Try to enjoy." Im not ever going to try to enjoy again--it just makes it worse. If youre enjoying it has nothing to do with trying. Ive tried rnning, meditation, positve thinking...no mental effort EVER has helped. The best I can do is keep reminding myself that its not my fault, remembering that its always the good feelings that come first then I begin to be active and productive again--the good feelings do not go away because IM not trying hard enough. Its the opposite.
People who have never experienced depression can never have the understanding of the world that we do. This makes me feel somewhat special but its not worth it, is it? And I see people who are able to enjoy everyday things and live in freedom--and they waste it ... doing nothing, just talking. They dont know how lucky they are! They just dont understand. If had the normalcy they have I would be taking over the world with my energy--which is what I began to do when I started feeling good!"
Posted by L McLean on September 23, 2004, at 17:13:09
In reply to To Everyone (And those trading SSRI for Welbutrin), posted by robot on September 22, 2004, at 2:39:44
You are so right, and that is just why feeling depressed is so wrong! We are presented with images, and ideas, and some how they tell us, If you don't feel this way, you are wrong. That's the first problem. We must understand as humans that we are all going to think, beleive, love, hate, and just live differently, and as long as it doesn't harm others in a physical way, it's ok. I've come to realize depression is the problem. The problem is trying to say we shouldn't be depressed. Let's face it, Life has good points, and bad, but it's all part of life. We must also remember the famous quote "Variety is the spice of Life". I think the problem with depression comes in when you try to fit into that little smily face mold that we are told is normal. It just isn't! We simply have to find a healthy way to vent. Remember, when you are feeling so depressed, and maybe suicidal, your beleifs, problems, and aditudes make this world a more diverse place, and without that variety, this world would be that much worse! Now that's deep thoughts!!! But, that's my true thoughts:( Good luck to all of you, and just live your life!.!
Posted by Jimmy Neal on October 14, 2004, at 14:55:57
In reply to Re: To Everyone (And those trading SSRI for Welbutrin), posted by L McLean on September 23, 2004, at 17:13:09
I am about to try Welbutrin.
I am almost 57 years old and have suffered from seasonal affective disorder for most of my life. About 7 years ago my wife of 16 years was informed that she had cancer. She lived for 4 more years with chemo-therapy. She died about 3 years ago.
One year after she was diagnosed with cancer, I was diagnosed with clinical depression, which has only gotten worse. I've been through Zoloft, Celexa, and Paxil. What has helped the most is Seroquel. I take one at night and get a really good night's sleep. It only helps, so, I am about to start on Welbutrin and hope for the best.
One of the answers to this post seemed to suggest that we should live with the depression and accept it. NO, NO, NO!!!! I tried that and ended up laying on the couch for about 4 months, not eating and loosing about 40 pounds in the last 2 months, waiting to die.
Once I accepted the depression as normal all of the feelings that come with it were normal, including the desire to die. While I still couldn't actively kill myself, I could just lay there and waste away; until a friend had had enough and forced me to get up.
I can't say why, but through all of this wasting away I was still taking my Paxil every day. After my friend had "bugged" me for some time, I got up one day and decided to start fresh. I quit taking every medication, including Paxil. Within a few days I felt much better and even had a few laughs. Two weeks later I was working again and feeling close to normal.
Four months of work and no medication, I quit. I just couldn't get through the day, again. The depression had creeped back into my life. Now I just sit and try to get motivated. Ocassionally, I get up and get started on something, but in a little while I'm back in the chair. I just returned from seeing my psychiatrist who prescribed Welbutrin in response to my question "is there anything I can take to give me some motivation?" I use the VA for my healthcare and will not get the prescription for a week, but I am hoping for some relief.
I also have a psychology degree and understand that being depressed ocassionally IS normal. Being depressed for some time after a traumatic experience IS normal. Being depressed for 7 years IS NOT normal! Being depressed for more than a few days for no aparant reason IS NOT normal. Depression to the point of ruining your life IS NOT normal.
Accepting depression as normal and part of our cultural diversity can lead only to more and deeper depression. This IS NOT part of a normal life! Fight for your sanity! One thing I have noticed is: if I get angry about my state of mind, I feel better. Anger is not a great state of mind, but a damned site better than wanting to die.
Jimmy
Posted by MrSkoot99 on October 14, 2004, at 16:27:03
In reply to Re: To Everyone (And those trading SSRI for Welbutrin) » L McLean, posted by Jimmy Neal on October 14, 2004, at 14:55:57
> I am about to try Welbutrin.
>
> I am almost 57 years old and have suffered from seasonal affective disorder for most of my life. About 7 years ago my wife of 16 years was informed that she had cancer. She lived for 4 more years with chemo-therapy. She died about 3 years ago.
>
> One year after she was diagnosed with cancer, I was diagnosed with clinical depression, which has only gotten worse. I've been through Zoloft, Celexa, and Paxil. What has helped the most is Seroquel. I take one at night and get a really good night's sleep. It only helps, so, I am about to start on Welbutrin and hope for the best.
>
> One of the answers to this post seemed to suggest that we should live with the depression and accept it. NO, NO, NO!!!! I tried that and ended up laying on the couch for about 4 months, not eating and loosing about 40 pounds in the last 2 months, waiting to die.
>
> Once I accepted the depression as normal all of the feelings that come with it were normal, including the desire to die. While I still couldn't actively kill myself, I could just lay there and waste away; until a friend had had enough and forced me to get up.
>
> I can't say why, but through all of this wasting away I was still taking my Paxil every day. After my friend had "bugged" me for some time, I got up one day and decided to start fresh. I quit taking every medication, including Paxil. Within a few days I felt much better and even had a few laughs. Two weeks later I was working again and feeling close to normal.
>
> Four months of work and no medication, I quit. I just couldn't get through the day, again. The depression had creeped back into my life. Now I just sit and try to get motivated. Ocassionally, I get up and get started on something, but in a little while I'm back in the chair. I just returned from seeing my psychiatrist who prescribed Welbutrin in response to my question "is there anything I can take to give me some motivation?" I use the VA for my healthcare and will not get the prescription for a week, but I am hoping for some relief.
>
> I also have a psychology degree and understand that being depressed ocassionally IS normal. Being depressed for some time after a traumatic experience IS normal. Being depressed for 7 years IS NOT normal! Being depressed for more than a few days for no aparant reason IS NOT normal. Depression to the point of ruining your life IS NOT normal.
>
> Accepting depression as normal and part of our cultural diversity can lead only to more and deeper depression. This IS NOT part of a normal life! Fight for your sanity! One thing I have noticed is: if I get angry about my state of mind, I feel better. Anger is not a great state of mind, but a damned site better than wanting to die.
>
> JimmyI am taking Effexor 300mg per day and was also taking 200mg of Wellbutrin to elevate my mood (according to ther psychiatrist) b ut it didn't work so he changed to Seroquel - I am in the ptrocessof working up to 200mg per day, but I'm not sure I can get there. I am at 100mg per day and all I want to do is sleep. Do you take the Seroquel alone or with anything else?
Posted by Jimmy Neal on October 14, 2004, at 17:38:03
In reply to Re: To Everyone (And those trading SSRI for Welbutrin), posted by MrSkoot99 on October 14, 2004, at 16:27:03
MrSkoot99
I usually take less than the average dose of most medications. I take 25 to 50mg of Seroquel at night about 1/2 hr. before I want to go to sleep. 25mg gives me about 7 or 8 hrs. of good sleep with nice dreams. 50mg. puts me out for about 10 hrs. 100mg and I sleep for 16 to 18 hours. I can't take it during the day and stay awake.
From the drug web sites I have seen, Seroquel has a beneficial effect for depression and I have found this to be true for me. It's just not enough and I think it's benefits are a result of the deep sleep. Without it I wake up every half hour or so and I seldom reach the dream state, which is important for proper rest.
Presently, I am taking nothing else for my depression, except an ocassional joint, which does more good than anything else. Since I was taking the ssri's I can only smoke a very small amount of marijuana. Now, smoking the amount I use to makes me sick. I use to drink 2 drinks a couple of times a week and now those same 2 drinks sometimes makes me sick. I believe the ssri's have altered my brain and/or body chemistry in some way.
I'm looking forward to trying the Welbutrin, I'm tired of this depression.
Jimmy
Posted by sjb on October 15, 2004, at 9:04:44
In reply to Re: To Everyone (And those trading SSRI for Welbutrin), posted by Jimmy Neal on October 14, 2004, at 17:38:03
It sounds like you're coming to the same conclusion, but I would strongly suggest you not drink or drug AT ALL, even small amounts, while you try to bring yourself out of your depression. You may find that the Wellbutrin dampens the desire anyway, but I think it is especially important NOT to take alcohol while on Wellbutrin. I believe it is because the combo may increase Wellbutrin's small incidence of seizures. Good luck, I thought your original post was quite powerful and I can relate to some of your experiences.
This is the end of the thread.
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