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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 20, 2004, at 14:48:50
Hi folks.
I posted earlier about insomnia and agitation when going up to 75 mg of Nardil. I took the dose to 67.5 mg per day, and the restlessness and agitation went away, but I am still waking up every morning at about 3:30 a.m. I finally called my pdoc, and she is starting me on Gabitril, starting at 2 mg and with the ability to go up to 4 mg at night for insomnia.Anyone have any experience with this for insomnia? I'm so tired of being tired!
Thanks in advance,
gg
Posted by chemist on August 20, 2004, at 15:03:19
In reply to Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia, posted by gardenergirl on August 20, 2004, at 14:48:50
hello gg, chemist here...i suspect you'll get a better read from the nardil contingent on this one, but i wanted to chime in, as i had (as with so many other meds) a brief trial of this one. the key word is ``brief,'' as in the dose range you are headed (and i was at, i.e., 4 mg) i did not feel a thing aside from a tug at my wallet. i was taking parnate at the time - perhaps a little more stimulating than nardil, from what others report - and found that sleep was achieved with a benzo or ambien. i am curious in hindsight, as this med is an anticonvulsant that has, along with others of its class, become increasingly prescribed off-label for adjunctive therapy in mood disorders. i wish you well, and of course, take my notes with the grain of salt they deserve, as it was a brief trial and i hardly gave it a 6 to 8 week window....i wish you well, and do let us know if it does the trick for you....all the best, chemist
> Hi folks.
> I posted earlier about insomnia and agitation when going up to 75 mg of Nardil. I took the dose to 67.5 mg per day, and the restlessness and agitation went away, but I am still waking up every morning at about 3:30 a.m. I finally called my pdoc, and she is starting me on Gabitril, starting at 2 mg and with the ability to go up to 4 mg at night for insomnia.
>
> Anyone have any experience with this for insomnia? I'm so tired of being tired!
>
> Thanks in advance,
> gg
Posted by watergirl on August 20, 2004, at 17:16:53
In reply to Re: Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia » gardenergirl, posted by chemist on August 20, 2004, at 15:03:19
At first Gabatril kept me awake! My pdoc didnt really understand why, & neither did I. At a higher dose, I am very grogy in in the morning.
I think the Gabatril allows me to keep my benzo dose low. I use Xanax or Klonopin. Mostly for sleep, but for anxiety too, both as needed.
Posted by jlbl2l on August 21, 2004, at 4:07:02
In reply to Re: Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia » gardenergirl, posted by chemist on August 20, 2004, at 15:03:19
chemist,
i am also interested in gabatril. from the user experiences i have heard it is is very odd drug -sometimes it keeps people more awake and have increased anxiety, while some people sleepy and calm. its basically a gaba reuptake inhibitor. Nardil also possesses gaba reuptake properties with its metabolites, so its interesting that by using gabatril -> nardil. just some random thoughts...
jlbl2l
Posted by SLS on August 21, 2004, at 7:12:00
In reply to Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia, posted by gardenergirl on August 20, 2004, at 14:48:50
> Hi folks.
> I posted earlier about insomnia and agitation when going up to 75 mg of Nardil. I took the dose to 67.5 mg per day, and the restlessness and agitation went away, but I am still waking up every morning at about 3:30 a.m. I finally called my pdoc, and she is starting me on Gabitril, starting at 2 mg and with the ability to go up to 4 mg at night for insomnia.
>
> Anyone have any experience with this for insomnia? I'm so tired of being tired!
>
> Thanks in advance,
> ggThis is one drug that can go either way. It can either help or it can hurt. Some people experience anxiety and insomnia from Gabitril. I don't know that there is any way yet to predict which way it will go. Trial-and-error.
- Scott
Posted by gardenergirl on August 21, 2004, at 7:48:11
In reply to Re: Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia » gardenergirl, posted by chemist on August 20, 2004, at 15:03:19
Thanks for your input, chemist. Yeah, that tug at the wallet was as strong as the one for my Nardil. Thank Dog for insurance!
I took the first dose (2mg) last night, and nada. No real sleep. I feel very relaxed, and have that kind of medicated fuzzy feeling in my body, but not my head (which is fortunate, as I plan to work very very hard on dissertation today), but sleep would be so nice! Actually, I did get about 4 hours sleep in the early evening, which probably messed me up.
Gabitril, according to my pdoc, has been shown to stabilize sleep cycles, so I guess that is why she went with this one.
I'll let you know how 4 mg's goes. Did you go right to 4 or titrate up to 4?
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on August 21, 2004, at 7:50:20
In reply to Re: Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia, posted by watergirl on August 20, 2004, at 17:16:53
I have to admit, after what I went through on 75 mg of Nardil, I am afraid that Gabatril will be stimulating for me, too.
I actually had an antibiotic (biaxin XR)be stimulating for me to the point that I was almost hypomanic! Gosh, I hate that feeling. Reminds me of when I was a child and had asthma. Whenever my mom had to give me my meds, I just lay on the floor and shook from the adrenalin. ugh!
Thanks for your input.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on August 21, 2004, at 7:53:00
In reply to Re: Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia, posted by jlbl2l on August 21, 2004, at 4:07:02
> chemist,
>
> i am also interested in gabatril. from the user experiences i have heard it is is very odd drug -sometimes it keeps people more awake and have increased anxiety, while some people sleepy and calm.I'm really hoping for sleepy and calm.
>its basically a gaba reuptake inhibitor. Nardil also possesses gaba reuptake properties with its metabolites, so its interesting that by using gabatril -> nardil.
Hmmm, so are you saying that the Gabatril might work synergistically with the Nardil? Or additively? Perhaps after getting set with Gabatril I might need to lower Nardil dose slightly? That would be nice. Four and a half pills are annoying.
Thanks,
gg
Posted by chemist on August 21, 2004, at 10:07:27
In reply to Re: Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia, posted by jlbl2l on August 21, 2004, at 4:07:02
hi jason....i too am interested in this one, although it's not at the top of my list, simply from personal bias in that i didn't give it enough time and/or it just didn't work for me in the dose prescribed. all that said, i do have a few pubs, although somewhat dated (like my parnate ones), when it was being touted early-on for mood stabilising properties. the lit i have jibes with your assertion in re: GABA reuptake inhibitor. what i am curious about is what the action of the drug is in the absence of a good amount of GABA already in the synapse, as i am not aware if gabitril agonizes any of the GABA receptors and/or enhances chloride and/or calcium flux.....let us know if you have any word on this, and all the best, chemist
> chemist,
>
> i am also interested in gabatril. from the user experiences i have heard it is is very odd drug -sometimes it keeps people more awake and have increased anxiety, while some people sleepy and calm. its basically a gaba reuptake inhibitor. Nardil also possesses gaba reuptake properties with its metabolites, so its interesting that by using gabatril -> nardil. just some random thoughts...
>
> jlbl2l
Posted by chemist on August 21, 2004, at 10:14:20
In reply to Re: Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia » chemist, posted by gardenergirl on August 21, 2004, at 7:48:11
hi gg, i did a usual titration for me, as fits my general impatience: if memory serves, i got up to 4 mg qhs after a couple of nights at 2 mg, and called it quits thereafter. do read the other posts herein, they are more detailed and the writers are better informed about this one than i am. just wanted to relate my (short) experience, i hope it works for you. and again, do keep in mind that i am a benzo/xanax/ambien fan, so more than a little bias in those directions.....be well, chemist
> Thanks for your input, chemist. Yeah, that tug at the wallet was as strong as the one for my Nardil. Thank Dog for insurance!
>
> I took the first dose (2mg) last night, and nada. No real sleep. I feel very relaxed, and have that kind of medicated fuzzy feeling in my body, but not my head (which is fortunate, as I plan to work very very hard on dissertation today), but sleep would be so nice! Actually, I did get about 4 hours sleep in the early evening, which probably messed me up.
>
> Gabitril, according to my pdoc, has been shown to stabilize sleep cycles, so I guess that is why she went with this one.
>
> I'll let you know how 4 mg's goes. Did you go right to 4 or titrate up to 4?
>
> gg
Posted by jlbl2l on August 21, 2004, at 12:03:14
In reply to Re: Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia » jlbl2l, posted by chemist on August 21, 2004, at 10:07:27
I don't know all too much about it, have never tried it, sort of scared too.
I basically got my information from this website lol :
http://www.gabitril.com/physicians/home/sgri.asp
It has diagrams that move to show how it reuptakes gaba selectively :-)
Jason
Posted by chemist on August 21, 2004, at 12:15:30
In reply to Re: Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia » chemist, posted by jlbl2l on August 21, 2004, at 12:03:14
> I don't know all too much about it, have never tried it, sort of scared too.
>
> I basically got my information from this website lol :
>
> http://www.gabitril.com/physicians/home/sgri.asp
>
> It has diagrams that move to show how it reuptakes gaba selectively :-)
>
> Jasonwell, the pictures are pretty, i guess it works for some and not for others, or at least as well....anyhow, thanks for the heads-up.....all the best, chemist
Posted by ace on August 22, 2004, at 0:04:27
In reply to Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia, posted by gardenergirl on August 20, 2004, at 14:48:50
> Hi folks.
> I posted earlier about insomnia and agitation when going up to 75 mg of Nardil. I took the dose to 67.5 mg per day, and the restlessness and agitation went away, but I am still waking up every morning at about 3:30 a.m. I finally called my pdoc, and she is starting me on Gabitril, starting at 2 mg and with the ability to go up to 4 mg at night for insomnia.
>
> Anyone have any experience with this for insomnia? I'm so tired of being tired!
>
> Thanks in advance,
> ggSorry no experience with this but you could add...
1. 25mg Seroquel PRN
2. Clonidine PRN
3. Neurontin PRN
4. Benzos- Valium, Xanax, Ativan, Nitrazepam (don't belive the anti-benzo hype)
5. Tegretol low dose PRN
6. Zyprexa PRNThere is more Im sure
Good luck to you, and go slowly raising the Nardil- at 90mg it is magic!
Take care
Ace
Posted by gardenergirl on August 22, 2004, at 9:28:22
In reply to Re: Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia » gardenergirl, posted by ace on August 22, 2004, at 0:04:27
Thanks for the input, Ace. You know, I never thought I would consider 90, but if I keep gaining weight and go by the 1 mg/kg suggestion, I'll have to keep upping the dose, which will lead to gaining more weight, which will lead to upping the dose, and so on and so on... ;)
Actually, we'll see. Body didn't seem to like 75 mg at all. I'll try it again if needed after being at 67.5mg for a while longer. And after getting some good sleep! sigh...sleep good...insomnia bad....gg
Posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2004, at 8:54:34
In reply to Re: Gabitril to cope with Nardil insomnia » gardenergirl, posted by gardenergirl on August 22, 2004, at 9:28:22
I tried 4mg of Gabitril last night. Still having early awakening...What the heck is so special about 3:30 a.m. anyway?
Is Gabitril something that takes a week or more to build up? Or should I be feeling the somnolence from it right away if it's going to help?
Getting frustrated here...
Thanks,
gg
Posted by AuntieMel on August 26, 2004, at 23:00:14
In reply to Gabitril...should I be feeling an effect already?, posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2004, at 8:54:34
Gabitril did absolutely nothing for or to me. No effects whatsoever. I was doing that get up at 3-4 am thing myself for a long time. I do 100mg trazedone for sleep now. It works fine for me with no drug hangover the next morning.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 27, 2004, at 9:37:00
In reply to Re: Gabitril...should I be feeling an effect alrea » gardenergirl, posted by AuntieMel on August 26, 2004, at 23:00:14
Thanks for your input. I know there probably have been others on an MAOI and Trazodone, but my pdoc seems pretty conservative, and I'm guessing she would not want to mix them. At 4 mg of Gabitril, I'm starting to do better. Don't know if it's the Gab., the SE's of Nardil increase fading, or perhaps the glass of wine I've been having in the evening... ;)
Thanks again. Glad you found something to work for you. Sleep deprivation is a pain, and I'm not in my early 20's anymore, when perhaps I could have handled it.
gg
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