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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on August 19, 2004, at 2:04:17
yesterday i was in bed all day, sometimes crying.
i changed to seroquel a week later i felt agitated and a little depressed.
so i stopped and went back to 2.5 zyprexa
only feeling a little better now, 2 days back on 60mg nardil and 2.5 zyprexa
every time i add something or change i get depressed....i HATE the feeling, i want to cut myself to feel again
also, Nardil is not producing its brilliance
talked to my doc- he said go off it for 3 months then restart
i said i will fall apart in that 3 parts
i suggested we use remeron for the 3 months
but using remeron might negate the 3 months off the Nardil (the neurotransmitters) are not having a full break
maybe i should change to anafranil but after 2 days on it last time o i was depressed
i feel helpess, laying at home, can't even eat im so depressed this past 5 days
i am a fool, a stupid idiot fool when i first went of nardil to try anafranil over a year ago.
i was in euphoria with nardil but when i went back it only worked as good for a while and is now only working average (thats if im not changing meds and i get more depresses.
i hate this. i hate this. i hate this.
i wanna crawl under my bed and never come out.
help, please any help!
ace
Posted by Nohope on August 19, 2004, at 4:10:31
In reply to Im depressed, posted by ace on August 19, 2004, at 2:04:17
Hi ace.
Very sorry to hear of your current state. I see from some earlier posts that you have been on 90mg of Nardil before - I guess there are reasons you can't go to higher doses again?
This is always controversial, but I'll bring it up any way - have you had or at least considered ECT to help you out of these really bad patches? I've had it, and from a side-effects point of view it was a breeze: no memory loss, no problems of any sort really - except that it did nothing for my depression. Others here, however, have had very different experiences (both good and bad), and perhaps more than any other treament, YMMV.
Your doctor (pdoc, not GP) will best be able to judge if it is an alternative for you.
Hope you are feeling better soon.Nohope
Posted by TheOutsider on August 19, 2004, at 10:24:36
In reply to Im depressed, posted by ace on August 19, 2004, at 2:04:17
Just a thought, sorry if its a stupid suggestion, but could you add a stimulent like dexedrine or ritalin to the nardil?
I've heard that this combination is sometimes used with treatment resistant depression.
Posted by Glydin on August 19, 2004, at 10:35:54
In reply to Im depressed, posted by ace on August 19, 2004, at 2:04:17
I have watched your postings from close and far for several years now. Yes, I have been different ID's for various reasons but none to deceive anyone or group.
Your Nardil has always seemed come through for you. At times, it appeared to me your response was a little "too good to be true", but I firmly believed that was your response. You have stirred your chemical stew a number of times, all for good reasons at the time. But, the one constant good finding has been in your use of Nardil.
I am so sorry to hear of your plight right now. I do think from history, your Nardil can work again for you. She may not provide you with the euphoria that you have come to expect and WANT, but I think she certainly has the potential to provide you with the relief you NEED. Before, it took several weeks for things to improve. Couldn't that be the case now?
Again, I'm very sorry and I hope things get better for you soon.
Posted by chemist on August 19, 2004, at 14:19:23
In reply to Im depressed, posted by ace on August 19, 2004, at 2:04:17
hey ace, chemist here...what happened to the nardil champ? i have missed your posts, and am quite disturbed by the latest: i can only offer words of solace and comfort, as you are quite adept with your pharmacology, in my opinion. please take care, and do crawl out from the sheets, as something will work for you. i know you won't throw in the towel, but please do give it your all...you can beat this thing, and have proven it in the past...by all means, keep in touch, and be well. do let us know if there is anything that can be of help: although i am not located in your hemisphere of the globe, many of your fellow babblers are, and could conceivably be of aid...please take care, ace, and i hope we receive a brighter post from you soon.....yours, chemist
Posted by SLS on August 19, 2004, at 15:32:56
In reply to Im depressed, posted by ace on August 19, 2004, at 2:04:17
Hi Ace.
Your doctor's suggestion shows to me that he is well experienced. I wouldn't presume to predict whether it would work or not, but it is something I have seen done before by experts. One of my doctors had a patient whom he cycled between Parnate and Nardil. It seemed to serve him well for quite some time.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on August 19, 2004, at 16:01:02
In reply to Re: Im depressed, posted by SLS on August 19, 2004, at 15:32:56
You could try the ol linkadge anti-poopout regime. This consists of stopping your antidepressant one day a week (usually week end) and have a night of *total sleep deprivation* This is the fastest working antidepressant (also *very* reliable) next to ECT. Then resume the antidepressant the next day.
During the week, exercise 45 min/day to boost BDNF, and skip a meal here and there. (meal skipping boosts BDNF dramatically as well)
Currently I am doing sleep deprivation friday nights, with no antidepressant.Linkadge
Posted by KaraS on August 19, 2004, at 16:37:27
In reply to ACE, posted by linkadge on August 19, 2004, at 16:01:02
> You could try the ol linkadge anti-poopout regime. This consists of stopping your antidepressant one day a week (usually week end) and have a night of *total sleep deprivation* This is the fastest working antidepressant (also *very* reliable) next to ECT. Then resume the antidepressant the next day.
>
> During the week, exercise 45 min/day to boost BDNF, and skip a meal here and there. (meal skipping boosts BDNF dramatically as well)
>
>
> Currently I am doing sleep deprivation friday nights, with no antidepressant.
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
I've done the sleep deprivation thing and it works great - but for only a short while. Once I get back to sleep, it's business as usual. Is your depression under control all week from doing this just on Friday nights?-K
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 19, 2004, at 18:02:27
In reply to Im depressed, posted by ace on August 19, 2004, at 2:04:17
((ace))
I have been adjusting my meds and I find it the norm to have depression kick in when adjusting. For example, I am on Topamax. Every time I increase it, I get suicidal for a few days and then things smooth out again.
My suggestion is to stay on the Nardil. Maybe you could try Geodon. I am trying it. It supposed to not cause weight gain and calm you. I don't think it has the risk of diabetes either. I don't think it will affect the MAOI, but you can check that out. I am on 20 mg 2x a day. It's a low dosage.
I believe you were on Xanax too, so put that back on the list.
Did the Remeron help you? If so, you could put that back on the list too?
You will be the champ again, Ace! Just make mini adjustments and let them smooth out so you know what is causing what. We want the champ back!
I would just start with the Nardil, Geodon, and xanax for several weeks. If all goes well, and you still feel the need for Remeron then add that. You will be our champ again:-) keep us posted. We all have stumblings, but they are just learning turns.
Posted by ace on August 19, 2004, at 22:41:07
In reply to Re:hope to bring you good news ((ace)), posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 19, 2004, at 18:02:27
First of all, to everyone of you, whom i would personally love to adress individually....I love you guys....so much support i feel from you guys is amazing.
Secondly, good news!! after my 4/5 day slump into the abyss it is passing! and im sure its the combo of Nardil/Zyprexa and Xanax...today i got out of bed and studied my biology....i havent cried today which is also a good sign. Right now Im at my university, so im not under the sheets...
Essentially my doctor said to me, that we are mixing very potent CNS drugs which are not specific in the sense that some other drugs are...I agree. He wants me to go slower on things. For example I titrated tegretol before to 500mg within 2 days and was a zombie. anything goes....i belive it was the combination of going of zyprexa and changing to seroquel that was the aeitiology of this slump. It was a short lived period of major depressive episode, and feeling it makes my heart absolutely bleed for those who have to struggle through this a life time.
Next time i add on another drug, I am going to titrate REAL slow...and monitor my affective
state very closely.Today I am 50% better.
I will endeavour to get Nardil's FULL effects back....
1. I will try Linkages idea
2. I will try 15mg for 6 weeks then titrate straight to 90mg
3. i will up the dose to 135mg (if enzyme induction is the problem, this should solve it)
Also, I have to be a little less greedy. Most of the time on Nardil I feel very good...and that's preety good considering what some of my other sufferers are going through. It has also ELIMINATED my social phobia 100% It has done tremendous things for me....I will try to regain the euphoria, as i am positive we can achieve this. I told my doc if we have to cease it for 3 months I would fall to peices- he suggested Xanax and Remeron in the 3 month break. My doc is a very good man to me. I should also state that Zyprexa is another winner for me...it has really shut off a lot of the EXTREMELY painful OCD.
Guys, I really want to thank you again. As i write this i have goose bumps, that people care so much about me.We all have that cold hand of suicide over our shoulders, which someone said, but we have to keep on fighting. We can't give in.
I am here for anyone to ask me anything, sometimes because of uni i am very busy, but i look at psycho babble at least 3/4 times a week.
Wishing you all peace and happiness- God knows you guys deserve itand yes- i am still the Nardil Champ!
Ace- on the way up!
Nardil 60
Zyprexa 2.5
Xanax1-3mg
Posted by chemist on August 19, 2004, at 22:50:25
In reply to I LOVE you guys all so much! i am on my way up!, posted by ace on August 19, 2004, at 22:41:07
ace, you never cease to amaze...keep it up! be well, my friend, all the best, tjm
> First of all, to everyone of you, whom i would personally love to adress individually....I love you guys....so much support i feel from you guys is amazing.
>
> Secondly, good news!! after my 4/5 day slump into the abyss it is passing! and im sure its the combo of Nardil/Zyprexa and Xanax...today i got out of bed and studied my biology....i havent cried today which is also a good sign. Right now Im at my university, so im not under the sheets...
>
> Essentially my doctor said to me, that we are mixing very potent CNS drugs which are not specific in the sense that some other drugs are...I agree. He wants me to go slower on things. For example I titrated tegretol before to 500mg within 2 days and was a zombie. anything goes....i belive it was the combination of going of zyprexa and changing to seroquel that was the aeitiology of this slump. It was a short lived period of major depressive episode, and feeling it makes my heart absolutely bleed for those who have to struggle through this a life time.
>
> Next time i add on another drug, I am going to titrate REAL slow...and monitor my affective
> state very closely.
>
> Today I am 50% better.
>
> I will endeavour to get Nardil's FULL effects back....
>
> 1. I will try Linkages idea
>
> 2. I will try 15mg for 6 weeks then titrate straight to 90mg
>
> 3. i will up the dose to 135mg (if enzyme induction is the problem, this should solve it)
>
>
> Also, I have to be a little less greedy. Most of the time on Nardil I feel very good...and that's preety good considering what some of my other sufferers are going through. It has also ELIMINATED my social phobia 100% It has done tremendous things for me....I will try to regain the euphoria, as i am positive we can achieve this. I told my doc if we have to cease it for 3 months I would fall to peices- he suggested Xanax and Remeron in the 3 month break. My doc is a very good man to me. I should also state that Zyprexa is another winner for me...it has really shut off a lot of the EXTREMELY painful OCD.
>
>
> Guys, I really want to thank you again. As i write this i have goose bumps, that people care so much about me.
>
> We all have that cold hand of suicide over our shoulders, which someone said, but we have to keep on fighting. We can't give in.
>
> I am here for anyone to ask me anything, sometimes because of uni i am very busy, but i look at psycho babble at least 3/4 times a week.
>
>
> Wishing you all peace and happiness- God knows you guys deserve it
>
> and yes- i am still the Nardil Champ!
>
> Ace- on the way up!
> Nardil 60
> Zyprexa 2.5
> Xanax1-3mg
Posted by snapper on August 19, 2004, at 23:14:05
In reply to ROCK ON, ACE!!!!!!!!!! » ace, posted by chemist on August 19, 2004, at 22:50:25
Way to go "Champ" we're all here for ya! It is good to see your positive post!
snapper
Posted by Sad Panda on August 20, 2004, at 11:25:07
In reply to Im depressed, posted by ace on August 19, 2004, at 2:04:17
Hi Ace,
How about adding an NE booster like Nortriptyline? It's giving me a bit of a lift to my Effexor & is strangely lacking in side effects. It would be safe with Nardil, only problem I can see from this combo is possible hypotension.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by alesta on August 20, 2004, at 13:58:33
In reply to I LOVE you guys all so much! i am on my way up!, posted by ace on August 19, 2004, at 22:41:07
hi, ace,
i found your post comforting, somehow. Thank you.
i'm glad to see that you're on your way back up!:)
god bless,
amy
Posted by linkadge on August 20, 2004, at 17:07:28
In reply to Re: ACE » linkadge, posted by KaraS on August 19, 2004, at 16:37:27
No it doesn't fully controll the depresson for the the whole week but it helps. For me, the sleep deprivation is *so* robust it is just like I had *never* been depressed for an hour in my life. And I am not hyper or anything, just calm and feeling good.
It helps give my meds a boost, and helps them not to poop out. The exercise also hels during the week.
Linkadge
Posted by KaraS on August 20, 2004, at 22:57:48
In reply to Re: ACE, posted by linkadge on August 20, 2004, at 17:07:28
> No it doesn't fully controll the depresson for the the whole week but it helps. For me, the sleep deprivation is *so* robust it is just like I had *never* been depressed for an hour in my life. And I am not hyper or anything, just calm and feeling good.
>
> It helps give my meds a boost, and helps them not to poop out. The exercise also hels during the week.
>
>
> Linkadge
Some really good days are better than none!-k
Posted by ace on August 22, 2004, at 0:44:11
In reply to Re: Im depressed, posted by Sad Panda on August 20, 2004, at 11:25:07
> Hi Ace,
>
> How about adding an NE booster like Nortriptyline? It's giving me a bit of a lift to my Effexor & is strangely lacking in side effects. It would be safe with Nardil, only problem I can see from this combo is possible hypotension.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>
I added Reboxetine (NE booster) before and within a couple of doses I was depressed.do you thing the same would happen with a TCA?
Take Care friend,
Ace.
Posted by Sad Panda on August 23, 2004, at 4:59:44
In reply to Re: Im depressed » Sad Panda, posted by ace on August 22, 2004, at 0:44:11
> > Hi Ace,
> >
> > How about adding an NE booster like Nortriptyline? It's giving me a bit of a lift to my Effexor & is strangely lacking in side effects. It would be safe with Nardil, only problem I can see from this combo is possible hypotension.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Panda.
> >
>
>
> I added Reboxetine (NE booster) before and within a couple of doses I was depressed.
>
> do you thing the same would happen with a TCA?
>
> Take Care friend,
>
> Ace.
>
>Hi Ace,
I don't really know. It could explain why you had a bad reaction to clomipramine since it's metabolite is a potent NRI. OTOH, Nardil raises levels of NE too, so I guess you would have to try it to find out.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by ace on August 23, 2004, at 18:55:03
In reply to Re: Im depressed » Sad Panda » ace, posted by Sad Panda on August 23, 2004, at 4:59:44
> > > Hi Ace,
> > >
> > > How about adding an NE booster like Nortriptyline? It's giving me a bit of a lift to my Effexor & is strangely lacking in side effects. It would be safe with Nardil, only problem I can see from this combo is possible hypotension.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Panda.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I added Reboxetine (NE booster) before and within a couple of doses I was depressed.
> >
> > do you thing the same would happen with a TCA?
> >
> > Take Care friend,
> >
> > Ace.
> >
> >
>
> Hi Ace,
>
> I don't really know. It could explain why you had a bad reaction to clomipramine since it's metabolite is a potent NRI. OTOH, Nardil raises levels of NE too, so I guess you would have to try it to find out.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>
>
>Panda, but the major point is I have given up on both drugs after 2/3 days!! Maybe the paradoxical depression would completely dissipate after a week and produce an AD/ Anxiolytic effect???
What u think????
Ace
Posted by Sad Panda on August 23, 2004, at 21:44:18
In reply to Re: Im depressed » Sad Panda, posted by ace on August 23, 2004, at 18:55:03
> > > > Hi Ace,
> > > >
> > > > How about adding an NE booster like Nortriptyline? It's giving me a bit of a lift to my Effexor & is strangely lacking in side effects. It would be safe with Nardil, only problem I can see from this combo is possible hypotension.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Panda.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I added Reboxetine (NE booster) before and within a couple of doses I was depressed.
> > >
> > > do you thing the same would happen with a TCA?
> > >
> > > Take Care friend,
> > >
> > > Ace.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Hi Ace,
> >
> > I don't really know. It could explain why you had a bad reaction to clomipramine since it's metabolite is a potent NRI. OTOH, Nardil raises levels of NE too, so I guess you would have to try it to find out.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Panda.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Panda, but the major point is I have given up on both drugs after 2/3 days!! Maybe the paradoxical depression would completely dissipate after a week and produce an AD/ Anxiolytic effect???
>
> What u think????
>
> Ace
>
>Hi Ace,
I don't know the answer to that one, if you are going to add an NRI again then maybe you need to do it in hospital under supervision to see if the inital paradoxial reaction does go away.
Have you tried the other atypical AP's? Risperdal is a very potent 5-HT2A antagonist like Zyprexa is, it's the first receptor they both block, but has a lot less H1 & M1 activity. Abilify has to be worth a try too.
Cheers,
Panda.
This is the end of the thread.
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