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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by simus on April 6, 2004, at 0:35:48
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? » Althea8869, posted by SLS on April 5, 2004, at 8:11:17
Scott,
You have some very intriguing information. What is your source?
Posted by katia on April 6, 2004, at 2:59:55
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? » katia, posted by simus on April 6, 2004, at 0:25:06
Have you been dxed w/ OCD? B/c what you described sounds like me. What is it about this intolerance of people's annoying habits that drive us around the bend? I don't get it. But it is a form of torture.
Katia
Posted by SLS on April 6, 2004, at 8:02:10
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by snapper on April 5, 2004, at 23:04:08
> > Hi Scott, you are correct on the DST thing. At least in my experience. When I had the DST done in 1992' and was almost disappointed that it came back as normal, so to speak. I thought, how come that test came back neg. for me. I wanted a real reason for why I felt so awful. I thought it was a definitive type thing but we obviously know it is not!! Would'nt it be nice if it were that simple?
> snapper
I know.The DST is by no means specific and sensitive enough to be a global test for biological depression. Many people with biological depression do show normal suppression. I guess this is yet another indication that "depression" is a multifactorial presentation, the exact etiology of which is complex and varies from individual to individual.
I can only guess how you must have felt when your DST came back normal. The results did not "vindicate" you of having any control or responsibility for your mood states, which you in fact have very little. It must have been confusing and unsettling.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on April 6, 2004, at 8:11:07
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? » SLS, posted by simus on April 6, 2004, at 0:35:48
> Scott,
>
> You have some very intriguing information. What is your source?Hi Simus.
DST has been around for a long time. It is used not only for depression, but for other cortisol abnormalities as well. Your best bet is to do a search on google:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=dst+depression
Here is a review that helps verify the validity of the DST for identifying endogenous depressions, both unipolar and bipolar:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8909334
Have fun.
- Scott
Posted by simus on April 6, 2004, at 12:16:58
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? » simus, posted by katia on April 6, 2004, at 2:59:55
> Have you been dxed w/ OCD? B/c what you described sounds like me. What is it about this intolerance of people's annoying habits that drive us around the bend? I don't get it. But it is a form of torture.
> KatiaYes, and I have been like this as far back as I can remember. I wish I wasn't this way. I am not judgemental and these are really nice people. I just can't stand their "noises". Maybe instead of drugs, the doc should give me earplugs. lol Actually, it does work. =) When my first daughter was born, she had colic and a very, very high pitched scream. I thought I was going to lose my mind for about a month, until I bought some earplugs.
Posted by simus on April 6, 2004, at 12:22:10
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? » simus, posted by SLS on April 6, 2004, at 8:11:07
Posted by katia on April 6, 2004, at 14:54:31
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? » katia, posted by simus on April 6, 2004, at 12:16:58
>>
> Yes, and I have been like this as far back as I can remember. I wish I wasn't this way. I am not judgemental and these are really nice people. I just can't stand their "noises". Maybe instead of drugs, the doc should give me earplugs. lol Actually, it does work. =) When my first daughter was born, she had colic and a very, very high pitched scream. I thought I was going to lose my mind for about a month, until I bought some earplugs.
>So, having these things that drive us crazy means OCD? I don't really have the compulsion side though. Do you? I own mannnny ear plugs! I can't even imagine having to endure a baby screaming and HAVING to be there and play mother and be patient w/o losing my mind and killing us both!
Good job in maintaining!
Katia
Posted by snapper on April 6, 2004, at 17:54:56
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? » simus, posted by katia on April 6, 2004, at 14:54:31
> >>
> > Yes, and I have been like this as far back as I can remember. I wish I wasn't this way. I am not judgemental and these are really nice people. I just can't stand their "noises". Maybe instead of drugs, the doc should give me earplugs. lol Actually, it does work. =) When my first daughter was born, she had colic and a very, very high pitched scream. I thought I was going to lose my mind for about a month, until I bought some earplugs.
> >
>
> So, having these things that drive us crazy means OCD? I don't really have the compulsion side though. Do you? I own mannnny ear plugs! I can't even imagine having to endure a baby screaming and HAVING to be there and play mother and be patient w/o losing my mind and killing us both!
> Good job in maintaining!
> KatiaHey Katia, the mere fact that things get on our nerves more so than others might be too simplistic I do know for sure that it is possible for ocd to potentially evolve into "primarally obsessional ocd" ie: obsessions but no apparent compulsions-however if you look deeper into the actual symptoms many times you will find that the obsessions are not the only thing present-but compulsions as well!! If you want, post me back and I'll try to explain what I mean.All I know is this:Since being off of FXR since last May or June 2003 I have been painfully aware of my obsessions and minor compulsions-its' Helllllll- I hate the idea that I might have to go back on effexor to control these problems, but it might be a neccessity
snapper
Posted by katia on April 6, 2004, at 21:01:36
In reply to Re: OCD or BP?, posted by snapper on April 6, 2004, at 17:54:56
Hi,
Yes I would like to hear more about that.
The other interesting thing is, when I was on Effexor, I had less obsessions like this. things didn't bother as much. However, I couldn't tolerate it for 1. I'm BP (come to find out afterwards) and 2. I got those electrical shock w/drawals happening EVEN while ON it. much less, the w/drawal was a NIGHTMARE. Is there anything else that does it?
I guess I have forgotten to mention these things to my pdoc. I guess i should. I was so caught up in my mood swings scenario that I forgot this aspect over the past year seeing him.
Katia
Posted by snapper on April 6, 2004, at 22:20:18
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? » snapper, posted by katia on April 6, 2004, at 21:01:36
> Hi,
> Yes I would like to hear more about that.
> The other interesting thing is, when I was on Effexor, I had less obsessions like this. things didn't bother as much. However, I couldn't tolerate it for 1. I'm BP (come to find out afterwards) and 2. I got those electrical shock w/drawals happening EVEN while ON it. much less, the w/drawal was a NIGHTMARE. Is there anything else that does it?
> I guess I have forgotten to mention these things to my pdoc. I guess i should. I was so caught up in my mood swings scenario that I forgot this aspect over the past year seeing him.
> KatiaKatia had this great post in reply to yours and after 10-15 min of composing it -- I lost it damn!!
Anyhow check out this link http://psycheducation.org; The Dr. who owns it is very knowledgable and goes into detail on how Bipolararity-OCD-and Social phobia all inter-relate to ea other!! Check it out and let me know what you think!!
If you have any other specific ?'s re OCD just post me and i'll try to answer you to the best of my ability!! I def do not claim to have all the answers.I am not an expert but have done quite abit of research and am starting to get a feel for what is going on!! So I guess that you could say that I am *obsessed* with trying to figure things out! oh yah the other link is http://www.ocdla.com
snapper
Posted by katia on April 7, 2004, at 2:46:03
In reply to Re: OCD or BP?, posted by snapper on April 6, 2004, at 22:20:18
Hey,
I clicked on most of the links for OCD and I can say that at one time in my life, I've experienced a few of them; i.e. body dysmorphic, panic attacks, hypochroniac, and phobias (spiders and ticks). But I tell you, everything under this OCD heading I feel I've gotten control over. Like I have outgrown a lot of it. I hate to say it that way, as though I had a hand in it (as tho' it's something I can control). But I really read thru' those categories and about 1/3 applied to me. And mostly in my teens/late teens and twenties. I have definitely developed a coping capacity. I have done a lot of meditation and so forth and wonder if this has to do w/ it. I've done so much work on mind over matter type of stuff that I think it's paying off, which feels good.Again, I could say at one time in my life, I can answer yes to about a 1/3 of those questions and subcategories of OCD. But now, I feel more developed in a sense. Like I don't let it get to me. And I feel blessed for that. Who knows what's around the bend though!
This is my question then about OCD. Does it come and go? I know my mood swings (BP) are also correlated w/ how "neurotic" I am w/ sound and noises. (that's my obesession - noises). I'm way more tolerant when I'm feeling stable mood wise. I guess mine is more of an offshoot from the mood disorder?
Katia
Posted by simus on April 7, 2004, at 7:23:39
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? » snapper, posted by katia on April 7, 2004, at 2:46:03
> This is my question then about OCD. Does it come and go? I know my mood swings (BP) are also correlated w/ how "neurotic" I am w/ sound and noises. (that's my obesession - noises). I'm way more tolerant when I'm feeling stable mood wise. I guess mine is more of an offshoot from the mood disorder?
> KatiaI get worse during times of stress, lack of sleep and not eating properly, and it varies depending on med. I have found that once the OCD med kicks in, I still have to make a conscious effort to overcome the habits that the OCD started (for instance, I can refuse to recheck to see if the doors are locked, iron is unplugged, etc.)
Posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 12:42:18
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? » snapper, posted by katia on April 7, 2004, at 2:46:03
Hey Katia, I'm glad you checked those links out and it made some sense to you. In regards to the noise thing, I can only therorize that any time we are having a hard time with mood swings and 'hyper-excitability' in out brain cells---it is going to make all our senses *hyper-alert* almost an on guard type of thing. I believe that is what makes us so miserable. Also I am glad that you seemed to have overcome or outgrown a lot of your problems. I am having a hell of a time right now with noise etc-I almost constantly have to have my cd/headphones on everyday to drown out the noise or lack of the correct type of noise! It sucks!! The telephone ringing kills me
and I specifically don't have one in my bedroom for that reason and I also do not use an alarm clock cause I have so much trouble staying in a good sleep, that I know I am going to wake up w/o one. Being overly sensetive to noises is called hyperacusis-anyhow I do know that when my moods get better and level out my noise thing tends to diminish to a large degree.I just seem to startle so easily -do you have the startle problem?
snapper
snapper
Posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 14:02:19
In reply to Re: OCD or BP?katia, posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 12:42:18
For Katia: p.s what meds are you currently on?
also if I failed to address your real question re :obsessing about sounds----I think that they are intricately connected -mood swings and obsessions!
snapper
Posted by katia on April 7, 2004, at 14:29:41
In reply to Re: OCD or BP?katia, posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 12:42:18
Hi Snapper,
Cool name. Where'd you come up w/ it?
I do startle easily sometimes. What is sounds like is being in the flight or fight/sympathetic nervous system always activated. We're on edge in fear and noises are the target/scapegoat?
who knows. I just so thankful mine's getting better. I'm taking Lamictal and Trileptal and Seroquel for sleep. Maybe that has something to do w/ it.
Maybe the fact that I just bought a house on my own is so wonderful, I can tolerate (more than before) the barking dog next door because I feel safe in my OWN! home.
and you're right, when I am out of balance mood wise and i"m tired - it's hell. Esp. snoring noises! that's probably why I don't have a boyfriend! I can't put up w/ the sleeping together!
Katia
Posted by simus on April 7, 2004, at 17:59:47
In reply to Re: OCD or BP?katia, posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 12:42:18
> I just seem to startle so easily -do you have the startle problem?
I wish you could ask my husband that and watch him roll his eyes. Every time he comes in a room now he will shuffle his feet or rattle a doorknob or something - just so I know he is there. If I am deep in thought and suddenly see someone standing there when I don't expect to, it isn't pretty. After my ear-piercing scream comes the heart racing and the dizzyness, and even sometimes tears. One time someone at work thought it would be "cute" to come up behind me and poke me in the ribs. After the scream, a couple of hundred sets of eyes were on us. I was just sitting there, shaking and embarrassed. His face got very red and he just disappeared. Not a banner day.
Posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 19:18:18
In reply to Re: OCD or BP?katia » snapper, posted by katia on April 7, 2004, at 14:29:41
> Hi Snapper,
> Cool name. Where'd you come up w/ it?
> I do startle easily sometimes. What is sounds like is being in the flight or fight/sympathetic nervous system always activated. We're on edge in fear and noises are the target/scapegoat?
> who knows. I just so thankful mine's getting better. I'm taking Lamictal and Trileptal and Seroquel for sleep. Maybe that has something to do w/ it.
> Maybe the fact that I just bought a house on my own is so wonderful, I can tolerate (more than before) the barking dog next door because I feel safe in my OWN! home.
> and you're right, when I am out of balance mood wise and i"m tired - it's hell. Esp. snoring noises! that's probably why I don't have a boyfriend! I can't put up w/ the sleeping together!
> KatiaHey Katia, man I did it again ..I had a really good post going to reply to you and I hit something on my computer and lost it!!!!!!!!! Anyhow >snapper, name< long story, but the basic is that I used to have this really cool and cute little dog, named snapper,she was very small and very hyper! (yorkie-poo mix) Kind of like what I used to be :) I don't have her any more, and I miss her but had to give her away because my mom could'nt keep up with her when my Illness got really bad!! I used to joke that she was like me! Only I think she was tri-polar! lol You are def right about the nervous system being on alert all the time! I wish mine would get better! Most of the meds I have been on over the last several years have done little to dampen that horrible startle response and it sucks. I live w/my sister and my folks right now , but sometimes just someone calling my name to ask me a simple question will make me jump. It makes me feel like I have PTSD, which I don't-at least not that I know of!! Lamictal, Seroquel, and Tri-leptal huh? Thats a tasty and simple little med cocktail! Is it working for you? I wish I was that simple. I see my pdoc next thur. and My little head is very busy trying to figure out what new things to try to make my head feel better. He is NOT big into poly-pharmacy , which is cool to a degree but at the same time I am miserable as hell. Congrats on your new home , I bet that really does give you some peace of mind and anything that gives us peace of mind is good for the ol' brain - I am hoping to get back to that point! I don't work right now! It sounds like you do, to own a home unless someone just blessed you !! lol--- I also don't have a girlfriend right now like you don't have a boyfriend... Not that I wouldnt' want one -its just that with my moods and anxieties and having to have my own space in bed and what not , I probably would drive her nuts. Snoring drives me nuts too, even though I do it, because I have sleep apnea! Speaking of which- sleeping disorders and mood dis-orders are very commonly co-morbid! Its a very frustrating health situation
-the very thing I need to feel better (proper sleep) is exacerbating my mood disorder and the freakin' drugs you need to help control your mood disorder tend to make you put on the lbs, which does nothing to help my sleep apnea, which in turn makes getting a proper nights rest very hard. I am seriously thinking of proposing the idea to my -pdoc that I need to be on a stim like adderall so I have the motivation to excercize, to lose some weight so I sleep better to in turn create a better mood state. Probably going to be a hard sell -But I need to do something! Hey I am bablin away again, so i'll let ya go! But keep in touch you're fun to talk to!! Sounds like we both have some of the same idiosyncrasies(sp)!
snapper
Posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 20:31:08
In reply to Re: OCD or BP?katia » snapper, posted by simus on April 7, 2004, at 17:59:47
simus, I don't know how bad you have it, but it sounds bad---I know people don't usually mean to scare the crap out of us - but sounds like your co-workers have no clue!! sorry !! I think it is one of the most disabling parts of having an anxiety disorder-I used to absolutely love the fouth of July and now I almost hate it-cuz you never can really predict where the next 'sudden '
earth shattering noise will come from-it huuuuuurtttssssss!! I am just glad I don't live in a big city where there is constant noise pollution I would go balistic!!
snapper
Posted by simus on April 7, 2004, at 21:41:48
In reply to Re: OCD or BP?katiasimus, posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 20:31:08
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I have it that bad. As a matter of fact, I never really thought about it as some sort of "symptom" until it was mentioned here. My husband is a very quiet-type person, and he just "appears" at times and scares the daylights out of me. We make a joke out of it, but he knows what it does to me and he does what he can to help (short of a cowbell). The kids are just kids - they couldn't sneak up if they tried. As far as the co-workers go, this happened just once years ago, and after that, no one dared do it again. LOL
Actually, the things we have been talking about, like being easily startled and being sensitive to noise are so little compared to the deep depression and panic attacks I used to have that I really don't think much about them anymore. The OCD can get frustrating at times, but is never debilitating. As a matter of fact, I think that the OCD, when it is somewhat under control, can actually help people in detailed oriented careers.
So sorry if I blew this out of proportion. A lot of my posts here have just been based on an "AHA!" reflex, from finding out what is behind some of my quirky little habits.
Posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 22:20:27
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? » snapper, posted by simus on April 7, 2004, at 21:41:48
Simus, no problem and no offense taken. I agree that OCD can def help with detail oriented careers
I used to run my biz like clock work and I really think it was to a point of too much obsession. I'm just looking to feel better too, like most on this board. The AHA reflex response is probably pretty common for a lot of people. I am glad that you have your anxiety and depression under control enough to be able to still work.I really miss it! My dep. makes me feel retarded (memory),and it's so dibilitating !
peace
snapper
Posted by simus on April 7, 2004, at 22:34:31
In reply to Re: OCD or BP?, posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 22:20:27
> I am glad that you have your anxiety and depression under control enough to be able to still work.I really miss it! My dep. makes me feel retarded (memory),and it's so dibilitating !
Sadly, I am not working. I started a total med adjustment in November. I worked a few hours in December and January, but finally had to go on extended sick leave in February. I just found out last week that a permanent replacement for me was found. It really was for the best, because even now after all the progress I have made, I still would not be able to handle the job.
Hang in there. I don't know how long you have been going through this, but I have been battling long enough to know that it can and does get better. Surprisingly, the memory does come back and all is not lost as I had originally feared at the beginning of this ordeal.
God bless.
Posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 22:54:51
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? » snapper, posted by simus on April 7, 2004, at 22:34:31
simus, sorry to hear you had to make the job transition! I have been going through this ordeal for 14 years now. I used to own my own business and the stress of it just made my underlying mood disorder worse and I lost *everything* in 98'
For a long while when I owned my biz, I was able to function. But the stress just compounded stress and so on... What kind of med changes did you have to go through?
snapper
Posted by simus on April 7, 2004, at 23:38:44
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? simus, posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 22:54:51
I have been going through this for nine years now. Well, the meds part of it anyway. I dealt with the OCD and the depression all my life, but when the panic attacks started, so did the meds. I started on Paxil (with Xanax), then went to Zoloft. I did ok on Zoloft for a couple of years. Then I switched to Effexor. I did quite well for a few years on Effexor, but the effects seemed to be waning. So in November my doctor started to wean me off Effexor and he added Lexapro. He also added Seroquel for insomnia and changed me from Xanax to Xanax XR. Well, in an attempt to make a long story shorter, I had withdrawal effects from the Effexor. Lexapro was not only ineffective, but I still faced the side effects. And three days on the Seroquel turned me into a zombie and threw me out of commission for almost three weeks just before Christmas. I developed an addiction to the Xanax XR, which I broke in January (then went back to a lower dose of regular Xanax just at bedtime for sleep). Then three weeks ago, my doctor took me off of the Lexapro and put me on 150mg of Wellbutrin XL. I saw immediate improvements. The depression started to lift the first day. The anxiety was not too bad. Still have OCD to some degree, but I always did have it to some degree. Insomnia was really rough the first week, but I made it. Just for the record, the insomnia goes way back. Wellbutrin just exaggerated it for a while. Now, the depression is gone and I have very little anxiety. The OCD is controllable. My memory and concentration are much improved, and sleep is a little easier to come by. I sleep in two 3-4 hour shifts. But hey, it's better than where I was a couple of months ago. And I keep improving. =) I have to deal with lower back pain now from all the weight I gained on ADs, expecially in the last three months. And my lack of movement from the back pain lately has caused severe edema in my feet and legs. But I can deal with that if I have my mind back.
Posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 23:55:38
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? » snapper, posted by simus on April 7, 2004, at 23:38:44
Simus, sound like the typical AD/benzo/weight gain/more health problems because of the original problem(s) dilema! It sucks! I was just telling my GP today that once your brain goes goofy, it seems inevitable that ill health will continue. I don't want to sound ultra negative but that is just how it seems!! Such a cascading effect - I want my brain back soooooooooo bad!! Glad you are doing better!!
snapper
Posted by katia on April 8, 2004, at 0:25:25
In reply to Re: OCD or BP?katia, posted by snapper on April 7, 2004, at 19:18:18
Hi Snapper,
Simple? Nope that's not the word for my med history. I've been doing a trial and error for almost two years now to get the right dx and then the rx. I think I may have it w/ this mix.
Keep in touch too. And yes, I am working.
Katia
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