![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 942 to 966 of 1085. Go back in thread:
Posted by headachequeen on March 13, 2004, at 14:46:07
In reply to Re: Hair loss » kka, posted by katia on March 13, 2004, at 6:32:04
> Hi,
> I was just wondering about your experience with hair loss. When do you notice it greatest?
Katia, I notice it when I check the screen thing (wow... and I have been teaching English as in vocabulary enhancement and creative writing, not to mention as a second language, for years and claim to be a writer and journalist.... "Screen thing???????") in the drain after I wash my hair...
there is always hair trapped in the screen...
of course, I no longer use a hairbrush as the 'radical style' I decided would better state my today persona, whoever or whatever that is, does not require a brush and all my life I have hated cleaning hairbrushes...
expecially when I let my hair grow extremely long and had to find a way to unravel the hair from the bristles of the brushes...
so my new question is, which came first the hair loss, or the hair loss caused by Topomax and Tegretol... and if it is caused by the meds, which med is most at fault...
I am not losing any more hair than before and actually less than when I used a brush to style and otherwise batter my hair into place...
I never really thought about it until I learned that Tegretol could cause hair loss...
Yoicks screeched I: I am losing my hair... look at it there in the brush...
then I changed to this delightfully different style and I noticed the hair in the drain screen that keeps things from plugging the drain...which used to require a plumber's attention every few months because of the hair caught in it ...
so has anything really changed?
Or am I simply reacting to the learned fear????
I am taking steps to create healthier hair now...
I have no bald patches, other than the ones where I tear out hair when the work in progress does not progress... and that I cannot blame on medications as it is strictly my own fault for not sticking to any sort of proper schedule...
I have constant compliments on my hair... even from stylists I don't know and no one tells me the sky is falling in or my hair is falling out...
so I think that I can safely say that I do not at this time feel any great fear about loss of hair because of Topomax...
the amount of hair that I have noticed to have fallen out in the past three weeks would not compare with that that came out in my brush each day if I were to do an honest comparison...
I simply allowed myself to be frightened by a possible side-effect...
it frightened me into improving my diet to include foods and supplements that would increase hair health... the ones that Dr. Bob recycled to the alternative health site <g>...
so that is good...
I do not find hair on the pillowcase or on my clothing to any greater extent than before Topomax or for that matter before Tegretol and I have been on that longer and it is also a hair destroyer...
so.... I hope that helps...btw... my hair is a deep red and my bedspread is a creamy ivory so if there were a great fall-out the hair would show up intensely...
as I wear a lot of deep purple and dark blues and olive drab, the hair would show up on my clothes too...
Now, dog hair there is in abundance, but it is longer than mine as a rule so we can tell the difference, and either black or a different shade of red, if not cinammon... so there is no confusion there...As for some of the other side effects, I have weighed aspirin and other over-the-counter pain killers vs Topomax as a choice for migraine control and found that Topomax with its constant controls (my doctors and the ongoing monitoring) to be a safer avenue to follow...
now that is MY choice and my path
There are other choices out there that might work for others to manage migraines... I have tried several...one of the famous and most-advertised over-the-counter pain meds is really hard on the liver, and as I was often prescribed two of its not-available-over-the-counter levels I have been told not to take it at all any more, regardless of reason or need because of the risk to my liver and kidneys... funny that no one told me that earlier as in before the damage could start...
I was taking it to counteract pain from injury and the orthopaedist treating me went into shock when he found out how long I had been on it... for migraine, for post-op pain in three instances that I could remember and so on... in fact in one case, while still on a morphine pump, I was given two tablets of this particular medication with another similar med, every three hours... if the morphine wouldn't do it, then what was this stuff supposed to do? says he, attack your liver faster...Over the years in the battle against migraine I have been prescribed stuff that I was to stick under my tongue when I felt a migraine coming on... great plan except by the time I feel a migraine 'coming on', it is full-blown and here... no warnings at all... besides the little green tablets made me so ill that the migraine was actually a relief...
then there were the prescription pain-killers that were supposed to knock me out within seconds... right! They didn't do anything of the sort... the label said to take one for pain, if it didn't work then to take another in four hours...
two of those things meant forty-eight to sixty h ours without sleep; my eyes wouldn't even close. The head-ache went on, the pain didn't stop and I was like a wind-up toy that was overwound... insult to injury...
the efforts to prevent and to cure and to stop the pain went on and on... the greatest success being a trip to the hospital for a shot of demerol or some such delight... sometimes for an overnight stay while nurses ran IVs to manage the pain...
I did not want it managed; I wanted it to go away and to go away NOW...
dim light - any sound - the slightest movement - agony... and they wanted to manage the pain...
Topomax has stopped all that for over a year...Along the way it has somehow boosted the efforts of the Tegretol to manage the epileptic seizures...
wonderdrug? I think so...
I still have the abdominal pain and the nausea that started with the Tegretol, so I still take the meds to control that... the Topomax is not that wonderful <sigh>
I still have the 'tingling' (oh the understatement) that came with the Tegretol... the electric shocks in my hands and feet that start and will not stop, that sometimes make it almost impossible to use my hands... but it could be worse some people have the tingling in their faces...I do not have the number of seizures though... so that is a bonus...
and I am not as often struggling to overcome the depression that I think accompanies all this...
maybe it is independent of it... I don't know...
the psychologist says I don't need him...
the doctor is tearing his hair out at that ... see Topomax does cause hair loss LOL...
the shrink says I am hypomanic and require long-term psychotherapy...
me? I don't know, I just know I do not have migraines and I have only the occasional seizure since Topomax and I have minor hair loss...all in all it is really not all that bad...
and I think I am healthier for all the water I drink....kat who does not work for the company that makes Topomax...<gg>
Posted by rockette on March 13, 2004, at 16:09:51
In reply to Re: topomax and voice changes, posted by headachequeen on March 13, 2004, at 14:46:07
wow--did you even take a breath during that post?
I'm already sold on Topamax for migraines but you would have convinced me! I'm just trying to find the right dose that will stop 3 or 4 migraines a week and NOT make me lose more hair. I was losing hair way before I found this site and the warnings so I know it's not my imagination or pschosomatic or whatever!! I, too, have tried every little pill created for migraine and then some. Have to take Protonix for the stomach thanks to many of the previous meds. Diet, biofeedback, exercise, meditation--you name it, tried it. BTW--Demerol will CAUSE more headaches than it cures--I won't let anyone ever give me a shot of that again.
Posted by headachequeen on March 13, 2004, at 18:07:38
In reply to Re: topomax and hair loss, posted by rockette on March 13, 2004, at 16:09:51
> wow--did you even take a breath during that post?
LOL I am not sure if I did... but then, all that music training means that I am supposed to have great breath control...
> I'm already sold on Topamax for migraines but you would have convinced me! I'm just trying to find the right dose that will stop 3 or 4 migraines a week and NOT make me lose more hair.Start on a low dose and continue with it for a couple of weeks and work up to the next increment when you are ready and not before...
the schedule I was given to follow instructed me to start in the evenings... somehow I missed the evening part and the first few days on the stuff I was sooooooooo ill... went back and read the sheet before calling the pharmacist to see if any of the other meds would be interacting badly with topomax and there it was (in bold-faced type at that) EVENING... so I made the switch and the problems ended...
with the tegretol I started out on 100 mg twice a day... no easy increments there, it had to start and it had to start right then; a month later they upped the ante because things weren't changing quickly enough... and the side effects were right in the game, matching each bet as it came along so my doctor presecribed the Serc and the other thing whose name I forget, to counteract the nausea and dizziness and the abdominal pain -- there were times when I really felt that maybe I would rather risk the seizures escalating...the slow increments of Topomax seem to control the side effects...
and when one encounters a side effect that is a problem, it often seems that back-tracking to the previous dose for a while helps to deal with it...
not always but often...>I was losing hair way before I found this site and the warnings so I know it's not my imagination or pschosomatic or whatever!!
No one would ever think it was in your imagination and I hope you don't think that I was suggesting that.. I know that my reaction to my own apparent hair loss was over-reaction to what I had learned about the two meds... and to my sheer hatred of Tegretol <g> but the hair loss from some of these meds is the same as the weight gain from some of them...
if I had a quarter for every time I heard that the weight I had gained was because of my life-style... no one would accept the reality that the anti-depressants were playing a role in what was happening to me... had to be because I was sitting around doing nothing and eating junk food all day...
right, sports fans... working full time times two, running agility, tracking, doing obedience and doing dog shows, training, grooming, and otherwise caring for five or six dogs...
right there is enough exercise to put the lie to that idea... but it had to be me who was at fault...
for that matter I have been told that I have to be causing my seizures and that if I think positively they will not happen -- and have had people tell me that if I were a stronger personality (now there is a laugh) I would be able to overcome the migraines too... they are fortunate that I am a strong personality as I am able to overcome the urge to strangle them when the urge hits...These symptoms/side-effects are real...
just as the tingling and nausea and abdominal pain and kidney damage threat-- and the list is endless are real...
but there are ways to battle them... we just have to find them, so that we can enjoy the peace and comfort the medication provides...
I simply allowed myself to be convinced that the natural hair loss was a side effect...and interestingly enough, with the cut-back in Tegretol to 200 mg twice a day from double that amount, there is less hair fall-out -- with the wondrous Tegretol which I find is moderated in many ways by the Topomax, at least for me, there are worse side effects... my experience there of course; others will argue the case.
At that point I was losing hair and losing it drastically...no bald patches but lots of hair loss and as it was longer I really was able to notice it...
funny how we females focus on the hair loss problem...
vanity, thy name is woman and thy image is hair...<s>I do think that if you check out the information that is posted on the other site and try some of the vitamins and supplements (topomax destroys them) you will find help...
>>> I, too, have tried every little pill created for migraine and then some. Have to take Protonix for the stomach thanks to many of the previous meds. Diet, biofeedback, exercise, meditation--you name it, tried it. BTW--Demerol will CAUSE more headaches than it cures--I won't let anyone ever give me a shot of that again.
and here I thought it was just another of those redhead things... because it never seemed to work for me, which is why they would keep me and put me on IV ... useless stuff that demerol...
kat
Posted by Sooshi on March 13, 2004, at 18:42:58
In reply to Re: Hair loss » kka, posted by katia on March 13, 2004, at 6:32:04
Hi Katia,
When I was losing my hair on Depakote, I noticed it most when I was taking a shower, running my hands through my hair after conditioning...it would come out in thick strands; and then afterwards as I combed it out...it would literally fill up my comb (I use a large tooth comb insted of a brush, to cut down on breakage). Eventually, hair started to show up on my pillow, seat of my car, my shirts, etc. (My hair is very fine, but thick and long). At first, I wasn't sure it was really happening. I thought...my hair must be extra dry and it's breaking off, or...I've always lost this much and have just never noticed it before..... Finally it became very apparent on my head that it was thinning out...it just wouldn't hang the way it used to anymore.Anyway, just thought I'd mention it to ya.
Posted by Sooshi on March 13, 2004, at 19:01:11
In reply to Re: Hair loss » katia, posted by Sooshi on March 13, 2004, at 18:42:58
Finally began tapering off Topa, and will begin Zonegran, hopefully avoiding a few of the nasty side effects I'm getting from Topa. Pdoc wants me pretty much off T before starting Z...I don't know why I couldn't at some point take them concurrently...tapering down T while titrating up Z??, maybe at the 25-50mg Topa mark??
I'm wondering if I should taper the T as slowly as I titrated up? I take 200mg, and he said to cut out 50mg in the am for one week, then 50mg the next, and so on. Well, I titrated up at 25mgs per week, but he said the tapering should go alot smoother than the titrating up did. I cut out my first 50mg this am and feel no difference so far today.
Any advice would be appreciated!
Posted by katia on March 13, 2004, at 19:53:21
In reply to Re: Hair loss » katia, posted by Sooshi on March 13, 2004, at 18:42:58
> Hi Katia,
> When I was losing my hair on Depakote, I noticed it most when I was taking a shower, running my hands through my hair after conditioning...it would come out in thick strands; and then afterwards as I combed it out...it would literally fill up my comb (I use a large tooth comb insted of a brush, to cut down on breakage). Eventually, hair started to show up on my pillow, seat of my car, my shirts, etc. (My hair is very fine, but thick and long). At first, I wasn't sure it was really happening. I thought...my hair must be extra dry and it's breaking off, or...I've always lost this much and have just never noticed it before..... Finally it became very apparent on my head that it was thinning out...it just wouldn't hang the way it used to anymore.
>
> Anyway, just thought I'd mention it to ya.
How awful! It's sounds like my experience. Did it grow back or stop falling out? I've started taking biotin and selenium and using dandruff shampoo for the selnium in that. Oh, this is terrible. I don't know what's causing it. This is one of my best assests!
thanks for your input.
Katia
Posted by Patient on March 14, 2004, at 14:51:57
In reply to Re: Hair loss » Sooshi, posted by katia on March 13, 2004, at 19:53:21
Hi,
I worried about the possibility of hair loss/and or hair changes when I considered taking the mood stabiliser Depakote. I've been taking 500mg for over a month now, along with 40mg Celexa. So far no hair or weight problems. From what I understand, drugs such as Topomax and Depakote, as well as others, can create hormonal imbalances, resulting in dry skin, hair loss, weight gain, lethargy,and disruption of menstrual cycle, hoarse voice and slow speech, tingling in hands, and constipation.
So, wary that this could happen, I decided to take a supplement called Thyroid Caps from Solaray-a thyroxin-free supplement which contains iodine, magnesium, zinc, copper, manganese, molybdenum, thyroid substance (thyroxin free), and L-tyrosine amino acid. I take this product about three times a week, not daily as suggested. I take this hopefully to counterbalance any possible disruption of thyroid function. I also take a vitamin B-complex 50mg ratio-important for health and growth of hair. Also, extra biotin, inositol, and methylsulfonylmethane (MSM), which aids in the manufacture of keratin protein. And, vitamin C with biofavinoids, vitamin E, and zinc. Essential fatty acids are important as well, such as flaxseed, primrose, or salmon oil. I try to eat more vegatables and fruits, though this isn't difficult for I enjoy these, especially homegrown produce.
You might consider having your thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) tested, and for a more accurate picture of thyroid function-a test measuring the level of free thyroxine (T4)-the latter test is especially helpful if the pituitary gland isn't functioning normally, which in turn affects thyroid function. I think anyone taking Topomax or Depakote should have at least a TSH test done annually, or try the treatment options mentioned and if improvement is seen (can take a few months), then this could indicate thryoid disfunction.
I agree with the information found in the following link about taking an oral preparation to replace the deficient thyroid hormone-avoid synthetic thyroid hormone such as Synthroid--dessicated (dried) thyroid glandular is the better choice (such as Armour).
Posted by Sooshi on March 14, 2004, at 15:32:53
In reply to Re: Hair loss » Sooshi, posted by katia on March 13, 2004, at 19:53:21
As I've said before, I tried EVERYTHING, including having my thyroid levels checked (always normal), all the over-priced "hair-loss" shampoos and treatments, including Rogaine, mega-doses of Biotin, selenium, zinc, C, keratin, etc. etc. and nothing stopped the hair loss until I stopped taking the Depakote. I was taking over 1200mg of Depakote...don't know if that mattered or not.
Yes, thank goodness, it is growing back! It looks so funny, because I lost most of it at my temples, and now I have "wings" again! (if you were in highschool in the 70's, you know what I mean!) My hair is my best asset too...almost down to my waist, and I had to cut it up to the middle of my back, and then up to my shoulders after I lost so much, it got so thin and strangly!
No hair loss with Topa, though, and I only stayed on the Biotin 2000mg (for hair loss, anyway).
Posted by kka on March 15, 2004, at 11:36:04
In reply to Re: Hair loss » kka, posted by katia on March 13, 2004, at 6:32:04
> Hi Katia
I mainly notice the hair loss in my brushes and a major overall thiness to my hair. I didn't have very thick hair to begin with but I would really never really have to clean a brush that often of hair, now I must do it every other dayYOu can now see my scalp where my hair parts. I wear it long too and am so worried. I guess I will have to stop. I am also on Wellbutrin too, I am so freaked out I am going to quit that too. and just stick with my Anti-depress. I take all the vitamins everyone has mentioned on this board, and have for a long time but lately nothing is working.
You mentioned that you noticed it with a drug holiday - do you mean when you took a break from Topamax that you noticed a hair loss. Also why would I have to tirate down off Topamax, why can't I just quit taking it?? Anyone know? I haven't taken it for two days and I don't feel sick or anything. I just want my thickness back, I know this is so vain, but it is terrible to lose so much hair. Does anyone know about it growing back??
Hi,
> I was just wondering about your experience with hair loss. When do you notice it greatest? On your bedspread? On your hands when you run your fingers thru' it during conditioning? I feel like I"m losing mine. and soo much of it comes out in the shower - which BTW I wash my hair once every 4-5 days. I've just noticed an increase in my hands when running my fingers thru my long lustrous beautiful hair in the shower during conditioning!@!!! I'm upset.!
> I take triletpal and wellbutrin but this was happening way before this. It was happening when I chose to take a drug holiday is when it happened most.
> and you?
> KAtia
Posted by headachequeen on March 15, 2004, at 13:36:24
In reply to Re: Hair loss » katia, posted by kka on March 15, 2004, at 11:36:04
> Also why would I have to tirate down off Topamax, why can't I just quit taking it??
I think it may depend upon the reason one is taking Topomax...
for instance if one is taking it as an AED, then suddenly stopping the use of it will cause the seizures to start again... not a pleasant thought...kat
Posted by Patient on March 15, 2004, at 13:45:45
In reply to Re: Hair loss » katia, posted by Sooshi on March 14, 2004, at 15:32:53
Hi,
I am not trying to counteract what you have said, but, I did want to mention that many times TSH tests and other thyroid tests can come back normal even though the thryoid isn't working as it should. This is truer if the pituitary gland is not functioning normally as well. Many of these drugs-mood stabilisers and antidepressants-affect the endocrine system in one way or another by the way they alter monoamines-it can have a cascade effect in the body resulting in all sorts of side effects.
If anyone is experiencing hair loss or voice changes (as was mentioned above), it can be a good indicator as to something going wrong with the thyroid-in spite of normal thyroid tests. A few months on a dessicated thyroid glandular with positive results can be the best way to know whether or not there is a thyroid problem. Results can take a few months, not a few weeks. If one has to stay on a certain medicine causing hair loss, it's worth a try. I would still take the suggested vitamin and mineral supplements as well. They are all needed for a healthy endocrine system.
Posted by headachequeen on March 15, 2004, at 14:02:51
In reply to Re: Hair loss-dessicated thyroid glandular, posted by Patient on March 15, 2004, at 13:45:45
> Hi,
>
> I am not trying to counteract what you have said, but, I did want to mention that many times TSH tests and other thyroid tests can come back normal even though the thryoid isn't working as it should. This is truer if the pituitary gland is not functioning normally as well. Many of these drugs-mood stabilisers and antidepressants-affect the endocrine system in one way or another by the way they alter monoamines-it can have a cascade effect in the body resulting in all sorts of side effects.
>
> If anyone is experiencing hair loss or voice changes (as was mentioned above), it can be a good indicator as to something going wrong with the thyroid-in spite of normal thyroid tests. A few months on a dessicated thyroid glandular with positive results can be the best way to know whether or not there is a thyroid problem. Results can take a few months, not a few weeks. If one has to stay on a certain medicine causing hair loss, it's worth a try. I would still take the suggested vitamin and mineral supplements as well. They are all needed for a healthy endocrine system.question is, how does one go about convincing a doctor that there is a need, when the tests come back to the contrary?????
kat
Posted by katia on March 15, 2004, at 15:20:34
In reply to Re: Hair loss » katia, posted by kka on March 15, 2004, at 11:36:04
First in regards to the hair loss:
IT's not vain at all to worry about hair loss. Of course you're concerned. So am I. Yes, I took a drug holiday and was only on small doses of seroquel and fish oil. That's when I started noticing it. and this was just after an unsuccessful trial with lithium. Maybe li. switched me into hypothyroid. I don't know. I've never tried Topomax so I can't advise on the titration lowering schedule.Now, about my possible crazy rapid cycling all over the map state possibly induced by Wellbutrin. I think I'm going off of WB too. I've only been on 37.5mg for ten days. I've been a drinking maniac and just plain maniac on it since I started it. I feel totally out of control and it's scary. Wondering if it's switched me to rapid cycling again and mixed states. It only started after I began the WB two weeks ago.
Yikes. smashed my laptop screen (gone), went home with an italian that I just met...., cry and laugh all within an hour of each other. any little thing can crash my mood....I think I need to reexamine this.
anyone else have this effect? I've been on ADs alone prior to BP dx and this was the feeling of out of control. I thought it'd be different b/c I'm on 300mg of Trileptal. Maybe some BPs just cannot tolerate ADs??
Katia
Posted by Sooshi on March 15, 2004, at 15:48:41
In reply to BiPolars not tolerating ADs?, posted by katia on March 15, 2004, at 15:20:34
Katia - I could never tolerate Wellbutrin, because it always made me hypomanic, irritable...made me feel like I was sizzling like a piece of bacon!! I wish I could tolerate it, cuz I hear such good things about it, but I'm a BPer that just can't.....
Posted by katia on March 15, 2004, at 17:20:23
In reply to Re: BiPolars not tolerating ADs? » katia, posted by Sooshi on March 15, 2004, at 15:48:41
Yes, I feel out of control! And it just hits at times. It's not all the time. And once I even have one glass of wine, which previously I could handle and/or stop at, an insatiable monster takes over - MORE MORE MORE. I just move into wild crazy personality land and someone else takes over. I am losing it! Smashed my expensive laptop! Cry for ever in the shower, last night thought about cutting myself with a razor and then I'm normal again just like that. I think it may be the WB.
Were you affected even at low doses - like 37.5mg?
Katia
Posted by headachequeen on March 15, 2004, at 18:55:50
In reply to Re: BiPolars not tolerating ADs? » katia, posted by Sooshi on March 15, 2004, at 15:48:41
> Katia - I could never tolerate Wellbutrin, because it always made me hypomanic, irritable...made me feel like I was sizzling like a piece of bacon!! I wish I could tolerate it, cuz I hear such good things about it, but I'm a BPer that just can't.....
I am not sure about this welbutrin thing at all... oh there is that thing word again.. so much for the educated individual... is that a topomax side effect? destruction of vocabulary???
I was on it for a while, I forget how long, for depression... first with another anti-depressant and I forget the name of it... was on it for AGES and when I switched doctors following my own doctor's retirement, the new doctor had changed me from a few months to a year-round dose, then decided to wean me from the old med, the name will return to me eventually, to welbutrin... and eventually to add effexor to it...
when I was diagnosed as epileptic he dropped the welbutrin in a hurry as it can cause seizures even in a non-epileptic so heaven knows what it would do to the epileptic...
the first thing my neuro asked was if the seizures had begun before or after welbutrin and when I told him that the seizures had been a part of my life for twenty years and more, he then decided he would take me on as a patient... furious at the doctor who would not send me for further examination because he had not wanted me to have to live with the stigma of epilepsy...
for that matter he was not excited at my having to live with the stigma of depression either...
HEY!!! I do not have leprosy...
I am an epileptic and I suffer from bouts of depression... don't have two heads, and my skin is not green and I do not eat children... and have yet to do anything that relegates me to the category of the truly bizarre -- don't belong in a Stephen King film, honest, so why do I have to worry about the {stigma}????
oh well, I am supposed to have come past that argument and rant. sorry...
At any rate, the Luvox was supplanted by the Welbutrin... here, it comes with little happy faces on the tablets... oh it is the trademark, I know, but it is in the shape of a happy face... talk about insult to injury!
I don't think the Welbutrin made any change in my approach to life (unless the sudden upswing in seizures of course...)... I still had my creative highs and lows... when work went well I still soared higher than the clouds and talked with angels on a face to face level... when work was not going so well I I did not soar...
when the me-induced high ended, I crashed with an outrageous bang.. you probably felt the crash wherever you may be and thought it was a minor earthquake...
my crashes and highs were all caused by me and my reactions to what I was accomplishing...
or to the aftermath of the accomplishment... despite the efforts of Welbutrin to control the highs...
after all, when one reaches the top of Everest, one has to fall to the bottom again... or as me old dad was so fond of saying, 'After the Lord Mayor's show comes the dustbin'...
then the effexor was added to it...all it really did was subdue my feelings and emotions... I don't think it helped in anyway at all or changed anything in a positive sense... I was simply subdues and took no joy in my work and approached my work with no real zeal or drive...
the doctors could not understand that the drive and excitement was me, not a psychosis or whatever... they were determined that I was driven by some sort of manic-depressive personality and could not understand that I was doing the driving and that without that drive, I was no one...
I am ADD and I guess, now that I understand it better, I am to some extent, maybe a large extent, hypomanic, but no I am not BiPolar, and their drugs were simply destroying the person I really was...
then they added the zyprexa and that was a real lark...Zombie-land... the waking dead...I think the welbutrin was preferable to those two...
my sister-in-law is presently on welbutrin and has been told that she must not have alcohol... well, she is an alcoholic, whether she wants to face it or not; not a fall down drunk, but a person who has to have a few beers a day or she cannot go on with her life alcoholic...
she has quit taking topomax for that reason, despite the fact that it controlled the seizures and tics that she has developed thanks to a broken spinal column, because she cannot drink any alcohol and take topomax...
she is also the one who warned me about alcohol and topomax... she learned the hard way...
she finds that welbutrin and alcohol don't go well together other than in low doses, so she has changed her dose to a lower one than that prescribed...
other than that it does not seem to cause any problems...
and I keep pumping her for information as she seems to have been on most of the meds that are mentioned here ...
never know when it might be a helpful bit of info for someone...
kat
Posted by Sooshi on March 15, 2004, at 23:25:05
In reply to Re: BiPolars not tolerating ADs? » Sooshi, posted by katia on March 15, 2004, at 17:20:23
Oh yes, at whatever the starting dosage of Wellbutrin is, that's where the trouble began, because I was never able to get much above that dose! I stayed at a very low dosage for months, trying to adjust to this med... I believe I was taking it with Zoloft. Wellbutrin gave me the "energy", if that's what you want to call it, to help me with the fatigue of depression, but along with that energy came extreme instability, anger, hyperactivity, irritation....it just didn't work for me. The pdoc just wanted to keep adding benzos and antipsychotics to counteract it....I just said forget it!
Posted by katia on March 16, 2004, at 2:15:46
In reply to Re: BiPolars not tolerating ADs? » katia, posted by Sooshi on March 15, 2004, at 23:25:05
Hi Sooshi and everyone,
Well I didn't take the WB today and I do feel a bit differently. Don't know how long it takes to leave the body. Anyone know? I had a glass of wine after work - just one - and did not get loopy and crazy and want more and do stupid stuff. I'd have to say that alcohol and WB are very potent mixture. We'll see how I go for the next few days only on Trileptal. Damn! and i just bought three months worth of WB. Anyone want any? :-) just kidding Dr. Bob.
Katia
Posted by Viridis on March 16, 2004, at 3:33:02
In reply to Re: BiPolars not tolerating ADs?, posted by katia on March 16, 2004, at 2:15:46
WB can do very strange things to some people -- like me, and also a good friend of mine. My pdoc is very cautious with it for anyone with anxiety or manic-type problems, and wasn't surprised that it caused anxiety, sleeplessness, dizziness, and all sorts of weird side effects for me (it was prescribed by my GP).
It works well for some people, but definitely can cause some extreme reactions. My friend thought she was having a heart attack the first time she took it.
I quit it after two months with no withdrawal etc., and the side effects stopped within a day or two.
BTW, my pdoc did not think this was a bipolar issue, just a not-uncommon reaction to a fairly unusual drug.
Posted by platinumbride on March 16, 2004, at 13:50:05
In reply to Re: Tapering off Topa, posted by Sooshi on March 13, 2004, at 19:01:11
When I went off topamax, I did it in one fell swoop. I just couln't handle the headaches it gave me. I was on 200mgs, went down to 100 in a day, then 50 , 25 and I was done within like 3 or 4 days.
Maybe zonegran needs a body free of topamax to do it's job....I do wish you luck.
Diane
Posted by Patient on March 16, 2004, at 14:51:27
In reply to Re: topomax and voice changes » Patient, posted by headachequeen on March 15, 2004, at 14:02:51
Hi,
A very good question I should have addressed, as well as suggested transdermal progesterone cream.
Hopefully you have a doctor who listens, and not only goes by the newest way of diagnosing medical conditions-through test(s) that can be costly, if not time consuming-but also uses the old school of diagnosing-by ones symptoms. Some doctors will put a patient on a trial medicine to see if improvement is seen, even if tests say contrary.
Raw thyroid glandular, such as Armour, is only available through a physician, but over-the-counter preperations are available, such as Multi-Glandular from American Biologics, as well as Thyroid 130mg tablet, from the same company, also Multi-glandular from Miller Pharmacal Group, Inc. These can be found at VitaminShoppe.com
Since most mood stabilisers and antidepressants effect the endocrine system in one way or another, which can lead to hormonal imbalance, women may want to try a natural progesterone cream, such as Femgest from Home Health or Progestacare from Life-flo Health Care Products-available from the above source, as well as other internet sources, and at your local health food store. This is an excellent alternative to taking thyroid extract, and often when women come out "normal" on a thyroid test may be progesterone deficient and can often be adequately treated by restoring normal progesterone levels using transdermal progesterone creams. This thyroid-balancing effect does not occur with the synthetic progestins such as Provera or the oral progesterone pills. So, if you have low thryoid symptoms, you can try using some progesterone cream for a few months. If you still have the symptoms, then consider thyroid extract.
An excellent source of information on progesterone cream is found in the book "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Premenopause"
Posted by headachequeen on March 16, 2004, at 16:05:46
In reply to Re: Ask your doctor, posted by Patient on March 16, 2004, at 14:51:27
> Hopefully you have a doctor who listens,
I forgot all about the thyroid possibilities....
had a meeting with my regular doctor today.. the neuro kicked me loose in November as he felt that things were doing well...
my doctor is not satisfied and wants me to see the neuro again...
He is not content with the idea of a couple of seizures now and then...
and thinks that the Tegretol should be replaced...
yes the TEGRETOL ... as I have to take Serc to calm the nausea and the abdominal pains and the seizures still occur he thinks the Tegretol is not working...
I will not give up Topomax under any circumstances... I do not want to have the migraines return and I do not want the seizures to start to return to the former intensity...
and I have come to terms with the side effects I can recognise as being attributable to Topomax...
so maybe they will just increase the Topomax and dump the Tegretol....
oh I hope so... and now I shall breathe LOL
and when I go back next week...we are seeing each other weekly to deal with this depression thing... he is ticked with the psychologist... I shall remember to ask about possible thyroid problems that might not show up in the testing that was done recently... had to be done to be sure that the eye problems were not thyroid-related...
nothing could be that simple LOL after all, I am a redhead...
oh to think that Tegretol may be eliminated from my life...
of course there is then the unknown factor... and it could be worse I know...
but I shall cross that bridge when I come to it...as for welbutrin and alcohol, the sister-in-law tells me that she was warned that it did not mix with alcohol and to be sure not to try to mix them....
I am wondering if someone is trying to scare her into slowing down the alcohol... this is not the way to do it...
she never seems to have any trouble with depression... of course that is not a way to diagnose a problem either; I should know. I hide it very well having been taught from an early age not to let the world see you air your dirty laundry, to mess up an old saying or two...kat who is about to celebrate the soon to happen demise of Tegretol in her life (and not with wine and song... but perhaps song and strong coffee)
Posted by Sooshi on March 16, 2004, at 20:38:45
In reply to Re: Tapering off Topa » Sooshi, posted by platinumbride on March 16, 2004, at 13:50:05
Thanks Diane - I'm already 6 days down to 100mg with no effects at all, so I'm going down to 50 tonight, for about 2-3 days...then I'll probably just stop. I call pdoc on Fri to see about starting Zonegran hopefully then.
Thanks again for you input!
Posted by rockette on March 17, 2004, at 3:46:59
In reply to Re: topomax and voice changes » Patient, posted by headachequeen on March 16, 2004, at 16:05:46
Just didn't want everyone to think that Wellbutrin is terrible. Everyone tolerates it differently. I've had virtually no reactions to it and have been taking it for over a year (150mg a.m. 100mg p.m.) Same doses no change since I first started it for migraines (strange that it gives headaches to others). I seldom drink but when I do have anything (usually wine), I have noticed no side-effects. Sometimes I have some sleeplessness (actually early, early morning risings--like 3 or 4 a.m. I have NO trouble falling asleep!) but since it's not everyday and I'm usually rehashing some nonsense from work, not willing to blame it on the Wellbutrin!! And no one has commented on my "personality" so don't think there have been any major mood changes, positive or negative. I'm still my normal, bitchy self!!!
What seems to affect me more is the Topamax--when dose is decreased the headaches come back. So guess I'm keeping the Topamax, too.
Posted by Cybele on March 17, 2004, at 8:20:29
In reply to Re: in defense of Wellbutrin, posted by rockette on March 17, 2004, at 3:46:59
> Just didn't want everyone to think that Wellbutrin is terrible. Everyone tolerates it differently. I've had virtually no reactions to it and have been taking it for over a year (150mg a.m. 100mg p.m.) <snip>
My body's reaction to Wellbutrin has changed drastically since the first time I took it, in late 1994. At the time, I had virtually no unpleasant side effects and went on to take WB-SR (2x150) for over a year and a half. I stopped taking it when I started trying to get pregnant, and noticed no changes in moods. Over the next 7 years, during which I had two children, I felt pretty good, except for occasional mild depressions. A few times I tried to take WB-SR again; however, now the insomnia and irritability was so bad I could not last on it more than 2 weeks. I'd go off it, and be so relieved to be able to sleep and not be a crank to my family that I would no longer be depressed.
Then, last October, I finally realized I was very depressed (have had depressions off and on since age 13) and my current doctor put me back on WB. (SSRIs don't work for me; took 6 weeks of Paxil and felt progressively worse.) *This* time my reaction to WB-SR 150x2 was completely different from the previous times. I did not have insomnia. I wanted to sleep all the time! One night I was home alone with the kids (4 and 6) and fell asleep without getting them to bed first. (Apprently they climbed in bed with me once they got bored playing, at some late, undetermined hour.) I was sleeping at least 12 hours a day and having dreaming vivid dreams, which started happening practically as soon as my head hit the pillow (drastically reduced sleep latency). I was also still depressed. After a month of this I simply stopped taking the afternoon dose, and felt better within a couple days. So I can tolerate a dose of WB-SR 2x100 first thing in the morning and that's it. I saw a PDOC who trie me on WB-XL 150, but again I had the same sleepiness, so today I am going back to WB-SR 2x100 in the morning.
Frankly, I really don't know that WB has ever actually helped me, other than that enormous pscyhological boost from the the early side-effects of not thinking about food all the time. Every time I've taken it I've also been exercising (except when I was sleepy), and this is the only thing that seems to help me. Even after being on WB since last October, if I take a few days off exercise, like if I am sick, my mood starts ratcheting back down.
So, just wanted to say that WB may not be a very good long-term solution for everybody...
HTH.
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