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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 7:29:29
I've been on it for 5 weeks and am feeling no better, and in fact continue to feel worse. I never had any increased energy or even any insomnia. I am sleepy most of the day, and am asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow. I seem to dream all night long as I am frequently wakened from my dreams throughout the night by my husband's snoring, a child needing something, or by my own extremely active dreams. I know Wellbutrin increases REM sleep, but it seems like that is all I am having. I so want to stop taking these as I felt better before I went on them, even if I was depressed. Wellbutrin worked great for me 12 years ago, but not this time. If I could get a proper night's sleep then I could exercise every day, and I know that would do the trick with my depression. I have a new doctor, and my doctor in my old town was very accessible and knew me well. My new doctor is difficult to contact and does not know me or trust that I know what I am talking about yet.
I really need input here!
Posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 8:32:34
In reply to Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 7:29:29
Getting sleep is important. It also is important for me not to sleep at all during the day or im up at night. I know thats hard if your med is making you sleepy. I would ask for a sleep med to get your sleep cycle straightend out, give the WB another 2 weeks and see what happens. Are you on WBsr Or WBxl ?
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 11:31:16
In reply to Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 7:29:29
I hear you!! I am on Welbutring XL 150 into week 4-5 and have not gained any energy at all. Well some energy when i actually get going but it makes my concentration stronger for the good and bad things. I don't want to be so aware fo what is going through my mind. My sleep is deep and long with lots of dreaming too. I see my pdoc on Friday It worked for me years ago too? How dissapointing is that. I am more depressed as I just want to get away from me. I'll be in touch s
Posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 11:52:42
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help! » Cybele, posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 8:32:34
> Getting sleep is important. It also is important for me not to sleep at all during the day or im up at night. I know thats hard if your med is making you sleepy. I would ask for a sleep med to get your sleep cycle straightend out, give the WB another 2 weeks and see what happens. Are you on WBsr Or WBxl ?
WB-SR. And, you know, my doctor told me to take it in the morning and late afternoon, but I have been taking them about 12 hours apart thinking it would lead to more consistent levels in my system. Now I wonder if taking my second pill at night is what is screwing up my REM sleep! I am getting plenty of sleep, but I think it is all the wrong kind of sleep. I will also try to force myself to get less sleep, say 7 hours instead of 9 or 10 a day.I also still have some 100mg SRs around, so for the next week I will take a 100mg SR for my second dose and take it about 3:00 p.m.. We'll see if that helps. Or I may just skip the second pill altogether... I've read posts on here by folks who only take one SR in the morning. I think that in just the last few days I've been seeing some slight improvement in concentration and libido (yay), but I am still as spacey and forgetful. For example, I almost ran out of gas today because I haven't remembered to glance at my gas gauge lately. I also have no recollection of dropping a letter in the mailbox earlier today at the supermarket, altho I must have because I don't have it with me any longer. However, I have been able to sit down and tackle the unread mail that has been piling up for the last 1-2 months. That's progress.
My psychologist suggested I might want to see a PDOC to find out just what meds I really need, rather than letting my PCP do it, and I am inclined to agree with him. Now, if only I can find the PDOC referral my PCP wrote for me last week...
Cheers,
Cybele
Posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 11:59:58
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 11:31:16
Kalimera, Stavros. I am curious to hear what your PDOC has to say!
Also see my reply to femlite.
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 17:58:16
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help! » Stavros, posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 11:59:58
Yasou. I am interested as well
Posted by theo on November 12, 2003, at 20:22:08
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 11:31:16
Are you going to move up to the therapeutic dose of 300mg Wellbutrin XL?
Posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 20:29:45
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help! » femlite, posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 11:52:42
When I started on WB sr I also was told am and noon dosing. I usuallly got the second pill in by 2pm. I still found myself exhausted by 5pm every evening.
I am on WB xl now and have found it seems more consistent in delivery. Im glad the motivation is improving. I was happy about that too. But like you spaceyness seems to be a problem.
No matter what Im on I dont sleep well and have been using Ambien for a month.
General Doctors can be very helpful. If you have a good working relationship it might be worth sticking it out. Im on my 4th pdoc. But then again the pdoc have more specialized knowledge of mood disorder meds. Keep us updated.
best
> WB-SR. And, you know, my doctor told me to take it in the morning and late afternoon, but I have been taking them about 12 hours apart thinking it would lead to more consistent levels in my system. Now I wonder if taking my second pill at night is what is screwing up my REM sleep! I am getting plenty of sleep, but I think it is all the wrong kind of sleep. I will also try to force myself to get less sleep, say 7 hours instead of 9 or 10 a day.
>
> I also still have some 100mg SRs around, so for the next week I will take a 100mg SR for my second dose and take it about 3:00 p.m.. We'll see if that helps. Or I may just skip the second pill altogether... I've read posts on here by folks who only take one SR in the morning. I think that in just the last few days I've been seeing some slight improvement in concentration and libido (yay), but I am still as spacey and forgetful. For example, I almost ran out of gas today because I haven't remembered to glance at my gas gauge lately. I also have no recollection of dropping a letter in the mailbox earlier today at the supermarket, altho I must have because I don't have it with me any longer. However, I have been able to sit down and tackle the unread mail that has been piling up for the last 1-2 months. That's progress.
>
> My psychologist suggested I might want to see a PDOC to find out just what meds I really need, rather than letting my PCP do it, and I am inclined to agree with him. Now, if only I can find the PDOC referral my PCP wrote for me last week...
>
> Cheers,
> Cybele
>
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 20:35:20
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by theo on November 12, 2003, at 20:22:08
> Are you going to move up to the therapeutic dose of 300mg Wellbutrin XL?
I don't know (if you are responding to me) the doc wants me to stay low and i don't know if I can handle higher doses maybe my expectations in life are just too high? I cnnot tell anymore. I will know more on Fri as to titration and additions
Posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 21:08:42
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 20:35:20
Stavros, are you able to exercise at all? I am 42 and have been hit by depressions (dysthymia/bipolar spectrum) since I was 13. I've been able to deal with most of my major depressions by exercising 5-6x/week (aerobic exercise for 45-60 min.). This time I have been so drowsy since starting WB-SR that I have not been able to exercise, and my hope is that if I cut back on the WB I won't feel so punk and can get back to the gym. It really works for me. Kali tihi!
Posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 21:10:37
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help! » Cybele, posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 20:29:45
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 21:19:31
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help! » Stavros, posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 21:08:42
Cybele,
I am 35 yrs old and able to exercise however my mind always feels like it's at work and that irritates me. Like while I am here my mind is concentrating on something totally different. I sort of have dysthmia but more anxiety which leads to depression. I quit work so I could get back to a routine working out, helping at church but no such luck. I traveled all the time for my work and it would just drive me crazy to have to do both work and deal with the other place my mind is? I have never experienced any drowsy with Well XL in fact the opposite. I am going crazy. . . again. Thans for the advice you cannot go wrong working out in any of these issues
> Stavros, are you able to exercise at all? I am 42 and have been hit by depressions (dysthymia/bipolar spectrum) since I was 13. I've been able to deal with most of my major depressions by exercising 5-6x/week (aerobic exercise for 45-60 min.). This time I have been so drowsy since starting WB-SR that I have not been able to exercise, and my hope is that if I cut back on the WB I won't feel so punk and can get back to the gym. It really works for me. Kali tihi!
>
Posted by Cybele on November 13, 2003, at 9:27:14
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 21:19:31
> I am 35 yrs old and able to exercise however my mind always feels like it's at work and that irritates me. Like while I am here my mind is concentrating on something totally different. I sort of have dysthmia but more anxiety which leads to depression. I quit work so I could get back to a routine working out, helping at church but no such luck. I traveled all the time for my work and it would just drive me crazy to have to do both work and deal with the other place my mind is? I have never experienced any drowsy with Well XL in fact the opposite. I am going crazy. . . again. Thans for the advice you cannot go wrong working out in any of these issues
> >
I have found that for exercise "to work" as an antidepressant and (I believe) to help with anxiety, you need to do it long enough and frequently enough. A little bit here and there will not work. At first you will feel lows on your days off, but once you have built up a base of endorphins in your body they will stay high on your days off and you can even cut back a little once you are no longer depressed (e.g., 30-40 minutes for 3-4 days a week).The minimum exercise I have found to work as an antidepressant is to get into the cardio zone (70-85% of maximum) with your heart rate and stay there for 40-45 minutes and do this 5 or more times a week. My current favorite exercise is a Precor Elliptical which I do on a cross-training program for 45 minutes. I also like spinning classes, but my current club does not offer 60 minute classes. Running mixed with power walking are the absolutely best, if your knees can take it. This last summer, as I was becoming depressed, I was doing the elliptical trainer 2-3 times a week for 30 minutes, and that was not enough to have any sort of AD effect.
I have found that even being at the low end of your cardio zone (70% of maximum) is OK, but you must stay there for 45 minutes. I suspect you can even go a bit lower than 70%, but "leisurely walking" is definitely not enough of a workout to make a difference. I used to ride a Lifecycle on manual level 1 and read a book or watch TV (Quincy, M.E. reruns, LOL) for an hour. Doing that 5 days a week for one month pulled me out of a bad depression. Then I started riding outdoors and even completed a century (100 miles) with a local bike club. I always got back into trouble when I thought I didn't need the exercise and worked at a desk job for a few months.
I see it this way. We humans evolved being very active all day, not sitting in cubes under fluorescent lights in front of computers. Our bodies were designed to be active. This is why we are so much depression now because of the rise of the high tech industries, with more people sitting at desks all day. Our bodies evolved to be really good at hunting, gathering, and making everything we needed.
HTH!
Posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 9:56:24
In reply to Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 7:29:29
Hello Cybele,
From my own personal experience, it appears that you now have what the medical field term as "treatment resistant depression." If you have tried all the other AD's to no avail, then go to this link, http://www.bipolarworld.net/Phelps/ph_2003/ph1016.htm
I have been on AD's for 12 years now and all the other AD's either pooped out or was no longer effective.
That link, talks about taking lamictal for this condition. I am beginning to sound like an advertisement for lamictal. It's just because from my own personal experience, in only 6 or 7 weeks, I got dramatic results from lamictal. I have been on lamictal with prozac and remeron for only 7 weeks and I am feeling like my old self. Eventually, I want to be on lamictal only.
Hope this helps you.
Flipsactown
> I've been on it for 5 weeks and am feeling no better, and in fact continue to feel worse. I never had any increased energy or even any insomnia. I am sleepy most of the day, and am asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow. I seem to dream all night long as I am frequently wakened from my dreams throughout the night by my husband's snoring, a child needing something, or by my own extremely active dreams. I know Wellbutrin increases REM sleep, but it seems like that is all I am having. I so want to stop taking these as I felt better before I went on them, even if I was depressed. Wellbutrin worked great for me 12 years ago, but not this time. If I could get a proper night's sleep then I could exercise every day, and I know that would do the trick with my depression. I have a new doctor, and my doctor in my old town was very accessible and knew me well. My new doctor is difficult to contact and does not know me or trust that I know what I am talking about yet.
>
> I really need input here!
Posted by Cybele on November 13, 2003, at 10:08:48
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help! » Cybele, posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 9:56:24
> Hello Cybele,
>
> From my own personal experience, it appears that you now have what the medical field term as "treatment resistant depression." If you have tried all the other AD's to no avail, then go to this link, http://www.bipolarworld.net/Phelps/ph_2003/ph1016.htm
>
> I have been on AD's for 12 years now and all the other AD's either pooped out or was no longer effective.
>
> That link, talks about taking lamictal for this condition. I am beginning to sound like an advertisement for lamictal. It's just because from my own personal experience, in only 6 or 7 weeks, I got dramatic results from lamictal. I have been on lamictal with prozac and remeron for only 7 weeks and I am feeling like my old self. Eventually, I want to be on lamictal only.
>
> Hope this helps you.
>
Thanks, Flipsactown. I tend to agree with you. Funnily enough I suggested a slow ramp-up of Lamictal to my PCP when I saw her last week, and she told me she did not feel she was qualified to prescribe that (fair enough) and gave me a referral to a PDOC, which I promptly lost. When I find that referral I will make an appt. with a PDOC to discuss Lamictal. For now I am just taking one 150mg WB-SR in the a.m. which will hopefully see an improvement in the quality of my sleep so I can get back into regular exercise.
Posted by Cybele on November 19, 2003, at 12:53:38
In reply to Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 7:29:29
OK, after 5 weeks on WB-SR (2x day) and feeling increasingly sleepy and forgetful, I went down to one a day in the morning. Within 3 days I was starting to feel better and now, a week later, I feel like I did before I went on WB. My sleepiness is apparently a very unusual side-effect, and I am sure it was a result of too much REM sleep. I was sleeping a good 10-12 hours a day, and still felt sleepy all the time. (I'd go to sleep at the same time as my 6-year old and wake when he did, plus I took an afternoon nap.) Every night I was asleep as soon as my head hit the pillow, although I was frequently wakened during the night by things like husband snoring, child getting in bed with us, etc. Every time I woke up I was in the middle of a vivid dream. Every time I went easily back to sleep. My forgetfulness was unlike anything I have ever experienced. I will suffer the consequences of this for years as I have no idea where I put things when I picked the house up during that time. I also immediately forgot appointments or arrangements I made with people unless I wrote them down right away.
My PCP agreed that going down to one a day was a good thing to do and commented how much better I seemed today than I did when I visited her 4 weeks into WB-SR. She gave me a prescription for 25mg of Topomax to take for a month on top of the one WB-SR 150 in the morning. (After reading the threads on Topomax here, however, I am not sure I want to try it.) I see her again in a month to review the meds, and will also be making an appt with a PDOC whenever I can get in to see one. This might take a couple months.
There must be some clinical lingo for the improvements patients see in their conditions when they go off the wrong medicine, or the wrong dose of medicine. If not, it might be time to coin a word to describe it :)
Cheers,
Cybele
Posted by femlite on November 19, 2003, at 20:59:47
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP, posted by Cybele on November 19, 2003, at 12:53:38
Is Wellbutrin XL available to you?
I feel it works differently, somehow better.
You take one pill a day.
It comes in 150mg if you need a lower dose. It may come in something lower, havent checked
let us know how its going
warmest regards
Posted by theo on November 19, 2003, at 21:29:28
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP » Cybele, posted by femlite on November 19, 2003, at 20:59:47
I'm currently taking Well XL 150mg and thinking about going to 300mg, doc said go for it. What dose are you taking??
Posted by femlite on November 19, 2003, at 23:44:01
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP » femlite, posted by theo on November 19, 2003, at 21:29:28
I was at 300xl, but my current pdoc has cut me back because he thinks Im cycling moods , maybe, because of it. He wanted me to go to 200 mg sr. and taper down in aweek to 150 xl. I could tell the difference and just went straight to the 150mg xl. It seems smoother.
Posted by Stavros on November 19, 2003, at 23:52:24
In reply to WB XL seems smoother to me at any dose » theo, posted by femlite on November 19, 2003, at 23:44:01
Posted by zenhussy on November 20, 2003, at 9:48:11
In reply to Re: WB XL seems smoother to me at any dose (nm) » femlite, posted by Stavros on November 19, 2003, at 23:52:24
Posted by Cybele on November 21, 2003, at 9:13:27
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP » Cybele, posted by femlite on November 19, 2003, at 20:59:47
> Is Wellbutrin XL available to you?
> I feel it works differently, somehow better.
> You take one pill a day.
> It comes in 150mg if you need a lower dose. It may come in something lower, havent checked
> let us know how its going
> warmest regardsI get the impression that having it metabolize during the night--i.e., sleeping--hours is what was making me have too much REM sleep and was making me sleepy during the day. I have now been on one WB-SR 150 in the morning for 9 days, and my sleep is fine. However, starting yesterday, I am now back to feeling "hungry" all day long. When I was taking two WB-SR a day, even though I was sleepy all the time, I was only hungry around meal times and I had an easy time staying on my eating plan (Weight Watchers). I *loved* not thinking about food all the time.
Last night I took my first Topomax. My PCP put me on 25mg a day for 4 weeks, then I go back to see her. I asked her to put me on Lamictal (very slow ramp up), but she had no experience prescribing that and did not feel comfortable prescribing it for me. Hence the Topomax. Will keep you all informed of how this goes.
Cheers,
Cybele
Posted by Cybele on November 21, 2003, at 9:14:39
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP » femlite, posted by theo on November 19, 2003, at 21:29:28
> I'm currently taking Well XL 150mg and thinking about going to 300mg, doc said go for it. What dose are you taking??
I was on WB-SR 150mg twice a day. Now I am just taking one, in the morning.
Posted by theo on November 21, 2003, at 13:37:20
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP » theo, posted by Cybele on November 21, 2003, at 9:14:39
One 150 XL or 150 SR?
Posted by theo on November 21, 2003, at 13:45:33
In reply to WB XL seems smoother to me at any dose » theo, posted by femlite on November 19, 2003, at 23:44:01
I was thinking about moving up to 300mg XL from 150mg XL. Now that you've lowered your dose what do you think, is 150mg doing anything? Did 300mg make you feel any better at that dose?
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