Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 270119

Shown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Vicodin and Anxiety

Posted by Elle2021 on October 17, 2003, at 4:51:52

Hey all-
A while back I was put on Vicodin (Hydrocodone/Lortab) for pain. I noticed that although addictive, it relieved my anxiety. For once in my life I could live with myself and I didn't feel like I wanted to get out of my body because of the anxiety. I currently take Ativan (Lorazepam), it works, but not as well as the Vicodin did. DON'T get me wrong, I am not a junkie in denial. I'm just noticing that the Vicodin helped. Has anyone ever been prescribe Vicodin for anxiety? How did it work? -Elle

 

Re: Vicodin and Anxiety Elle2021

Posted by femlite on October 17, 2003, at 8:18:10

In reply to Vicodin and Anxiety, posted by Elle2021 on October 17, 2003, at 4:51:52

Hi Elle,
There have been some really interesting (abeit heated) discussions on the subject of opiods and depression. I dont have time to look them up or Id give you the references. But go to the search box (top of the page) and type in opiods, (google search for dr.bob, not www.) It will bring up all the threads you need and read through them.
Good luck
from one who's been there
PS if you stiill have questions or just need to chat, post again. Gotta run, Ill look for you later

 

Re: Vicodin and Anxiety Elle2021

Posted by galkeepinon on October 17, 2003, at 15:33:45

In reply to Vicodin and Anxiety, posted by Elle2021 on October 17, 2003, at 4:51:52

Never been prescribed Vicodin for *anxiety*, but ooooohhhhhhhh do I miss it;-)
Made me feel better than any other psych med I've taken...

> Hey all-
> A while back I was put on Vicodin (Hydrocodone/Lortab) for pain. I noticed that although addictive, it relieved my anxiety. For once in my life I could live with myself and I didn't feel like I wanted to get out of my body because of the anxiety. I currently take Ativan (Lorazepam), it works, but not as well as the Vicodin did. DON'T get me wrong, I am not a junkie in denial. I'm just noticing that the Vicodin helped. Has anyone ever been prescribe Vicodin for anxiety? How did it work? -Elle

 

Re: Vicodin and Anxiety

Posted by Elle2021 on October 17, 2003, at 18:17:33

In reply to Re: Vicodin and Anxiety Elle2021, posted by femlite on October 17, 2003, at 8:18:10

Hi Femlite,
Thanks so much for your response! What is your personal opinion on the issue?
-Elle

 

Re: Vicodin and Anxiety Elle2021

Posted by madwand on October 17, 2003, at 20:27:38

In reply to Vicodin and Anxiety, posted by Elle2021 on October 17, 2003, at 4:51:52

Elle,
My experience with Vicodin (actually with Lortab -- its "clone" -- same thing) was somewhat similar and perhaps may prove helpful to you. I encountered Lortab shortly before going on Lexapro and noticed the wonderful effect Lortab has on my mood (not "high" -- but the old enthusiasm returning). In a similar timeframe I got put on a betablocker which had the exact opposite effect -- making me more depressed (a known side-effect of betablockers).
It was really the contrast between the two and my daily state that gave me that nudge to go on Lexapro. One reminded me of how good things can be, while the other showed me how bad it could get.
Well, now I'm on Lexapro (about 9-10 weeks) and still occasionally need the Lortab for pain. And yes, it still has a more profound effect than the Lexapro. But during a recent "increase" in pain I decided to switch temporarily to a high dose of Ibuprofen (my stomach can only handle that for a few days) to keep from using too much Lortab.
And guess what? My mood wasn't quite at the Lortab level but it was pretty darn close! I have noticed this a couple of times. And since that is not a known side-effect of Ibuprofen (nor have I ever had such a reaction to it), I came up with two conclusions:

(1) The Lexapro is working better than I thought, and that some of the benefit of the Lortab wasn't in its euphoric side-effect but in cutting down the pain and discomfort. Thus when the Ibuprofen helped with that my mood also improved.

(2) The Lortab "reminded" me, not just at a conscious but at a sub-conscious level, of what it is like to feel good. I believe that the SSRIs don't "change" your mood so much as release the clutch a bit -- allowing your mood to change. So in that way the Lortab helped because it showed part of me the right direction to "move" when Lexapro released the clutch.

And why is this long ramble relevant to you? Well perhaps it isn't, but I suspect that part (2) might be true for you as well. In other words, let the Vicodin "show" you your preferred state, and then let the other medications "invite" you back to it.
And if it is of absolutely *no* use then, hey, in bad moments you can at least take solace in the fact that you aren't completely out in space like a certain dude on PB <g>.
In any case, I hope your weekend goes well!

Michael

 

Re: Vicodin and Anxiety

Posted by Elle2021 on October 18, 2003, at 4:07:52

In reply to Re: Vicodin and Anxiety Elle2021, posted by madwand on October 17, 2003, at 20:27:38

Hi Michael,
I think my experience with Vicodin is very similar to yours. Like you, for me, discovering Vicodin was refreshing because it allowed me to remember what being happy feels like. It sounds ridiculous (and melo-dramatic of me) but it was a really eye-opening experience. I hadn't realized how utterly depressed I was until I was practically euphoric. I know a lot of people would disagree with me and stay that it was just a high or a "fake happy." But I stand by my feelings that this drug should be prescribed for anxiety and depression in combination with anti-depressants. Supposedly, I have Borderline Personality Disorder and also somewhat severe Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (which trust me is no fun). The Vicodin was great because it made me feel normal again, a feeling I wish I could have without it. Elle

> Elle,
> My experience with Vicodin (actually with Lortab -- its "clone" -- same thing) was somewhat similar and perhaps may prove helpful to you. I encountered Lortab shortly before going on Lexapro and noticed the wonderful effect Lortab has on my mood (not "high" -- but the old enthusiasm returning). In a similar timeframe I got put on a betablocker which had the exact opposite effect -- making me more depressed (a known side-effect of betablockers).
> It was really the contrast between the two and my daily state that gave me that nudge to go on Lexapro. One reminded me of how good things can be, while the other showed me how bad it could get.
> Well, now I'm on Lexapro (about 9-10 weeks) and still occasionally need the Lortab for pain. And yes, it still has a more profound effect than the Lexapro. But during a recent "increase" in pain I decided to switch temporarily to a high dose of Ibuprofen (my stomach can only handle that for a few days) to keep from using too much Lortab.
> And guess what? My mood wasn't quite at the Lortab level but it was pretty darn close! I have noticed this a couple of times. And since that is not a known side-effect of Ibuprofen (nor have I ever had such a reaction to it), I came up with two conclusions:
>
> (1) The Lexapro is working better than I thought, and that some of the benefit of the Lortab wasn't in its euphoric side-effect but in cutting down the pain and discomfort. Thus when the Ibuprofen helped with that my mood also improved.
>
> (2) The Lortab "reminded" me, not just at a conscious but at a sub-conscious level, of what it is like to feel good. I believe that the SSRIs don't "change" your mood so much as release the clutch a bit -- allowing your mood to change. So in that way the Lortab helped because it showed part of me the right direction to "move" when Lexapro released the clutch.
>
> And why is this long ramble relevant to you? Well perhaps it isn't, but I suspect that part (2) might be true for you as well. In other words, let the Vicodin "show" you your preferred state, and then let the other medications "invite" you back to it.
> And if it is of absolutely *no* use then, hey, in bad moments you can at least take solace in the fact that you aren't completely out in space like a certain dude on PB <g>.
> In any case, I hope your weekend goes well!
>
> Michael

 

Re: Vicodin and Anxiety

Posted by btnd on October 18, 2003, at 5:37:42

In reply to Re: Vicodin and Anxiety, posted by Elle2021 on October 18, 2003, at 4:07:52

> But I stand by my feelings that this drug should be prescribed for anxiety and depression in combination with anti-depressants.


Yeah I would agree too, but there is just one big problem with all opiates and opioid-meds. They build tolerance very quickly and you need higher and higher doses daily. But there is some hope in using opiates for depression - using small doses of naloxone with them / or using buprenorphine stand-alone.

 

Opiates: Addiction, etc.

Posted by Jack Smith on October 18, 2003, at 17:22:04

In reply to Re: Vicodin and Anxiety Elle2021, posted by madwand on October 17, 2003, at 20:27:38

I don't have any strong feelings on this issue and have never used opiates except for toothaches but here is a perspective on this issue that differs from the ordinary, it's quite interesting.

http://www.reason.com/0306/fe.js.h.shtml

I do not endorse the views in that article but neither do I refute them.

JACK

 

Re: Opiates: Addiction, etc. Jack Smith

Posted by Elle2021 on October 18, 2003, at 19:28:22

In reply to Opiates: Addiction, etc., posted by Jack Smith on October 18, 2003, at 17:22:04

Hey Jack,
Thanks for the article, it was interesting. I don't think I would try heroin for my depression, but it was amazing that it didn't effect that business guy in bad ways, definitely a one-of-a-kind case. Thanks again! Elle

 

Re: Opiates: Addiction, etc.

Posted by caleb462 on October 19, 2003, at 0:21:31

In reply to Opiates: Addiction, etc., posted by Jack Smith on October 18, 2003, at 17:22:04

> I don't have any strong feelings on this issue and have never used opiates except for toothaches but here is a perspective on this issue that differs from the ordinary, it's quite interesting.
>
> http://www.reason.com/0306/fe.js.h.shtml
>
> I do not endorse the views in that article but neither do I refute them.
>
> JACK


Doesn't really suprise me. The problem with opiate/opioid addiction is not the drugs themselves - but the laws making them illegal. Before the drugs were made illegal, lots of folks were addicted to opium tinctures and the like, and had no problems from their use, probably only enhancements.

Indeed, most of the chineese who slaved away at building our railroads were addicted to smoking opium. Some theorize the only reason they were able to tolerate doing grueling work under horrible conditions was their opium.

These drugs have a horrible reputation, but they are actually some of the safest drugs around (when in pure form, and except in overdose). They don't cause one to lose total self-control and end up hurting others like say, alcohol.

Granted, street heroin is a bad route, a very bad route. But folks need to realize that it is more the LAWS that are the problem, and not the drugs.

"Its not on a war on drugs, its a war on personal freedom"

-Bill Hicks.

 

Re: Opiates: Addiction, etc.

Posted by Shoobie Doo on October 19, 2003, at 5:39:51

In reply to Re: Opiates: Addiction, etc., posted by caleb462 on October 19, 2003, at 0:21:31

Sorry, have to disagree. It's not true that the main problems with opiates stem from the laws around the drugs. Being on heroin or prescribed opiates really does change your view of reality profoundly, it makes you think that things are OK when they are not, it makes you takes risks that you would not otherwise. And once you are addicted your ability to make that "free choice of a consenting adult" is taken away from you. It's not just about street heroin- it's the same if you are using pharmaceutical opiates.

As an ex addict, I can tell you that in the long term, my opiate addiction did nothing but compound and worsen and my depression and anxiety.

 

Use and Abuse Elle2021

Posted by femlite on October 19, 2003, at 7:34:54

In reply to Re: Vicodin and Anxiety, posted by Elle2021 on October 17, 2003, at 18:17:33

Hey Elle ,
It really scared me wehen a good friend told me I was going to end up in rehab because of my use of opiod meds. I have fibromiyalgia and chronic back pain. I stopped taking them on the spot (so much for addtion withdraw) I read up.
My friend convinced me that I was displacing my need for psycho active meds. on my use of opiods. About this idea, I believed she was correct, because the more I thought about it, the more it dawned on me that my depression and mood swings had abated that whole year. I was still in pain. But I asked for her advise and she gave it, psych drugs are safer, and less addicting.
Having now followed her advice, I believe the possibility exist that I may end up on opiod medication again. Why.....? glad you asked
1.The meds Im on now are helping my motivation and depression but doing nothing for my back pain and causing me to have anxiety, the likes of which I have never know.
2. Now that I have an anxiety problem Ive been prescribed benzodiazapines ("a very safe and non addicitng drug" right?)
3.The addiction propaganda on benzodiazapines is far scarier than any thing Ive read about opiods.
4. After having been a good patient an allowed them to turn me about with one med cocktail after another with with little or no sucess...
5. I may just decide that it is whole lot easier to take ONE med that WORKS

You've got it right, but its hard to move in that direction with out professional help. And you should have professional monitoring,
because after all we are not drug addicts, just people who need pharmacuetical help.
And isn't it wonderful how the pharm companies and doctors have all been so glad to help us with one wonder drug or another.
Its amazing how acceptable drug ussage has become. (certain drugs, anyway)
Well for now, we have to play guinee pig and keep voicing our opinion (loudly) that there isnt any med cocktail on earth that makes us feel like an opiod.

It was the happiest year of my life.

But as I am not an addict, (and I have drawers full of the stuff, I've not used since) I will continue on the socialbly acceptable path of taking more and more professionally prescribed medications to make me feel normal.

I have completly digressed, forgive me.
Yes tolerance is a real and dangerous issue.There is a medication you can take in small amonuts with opiods that eliminates the problem of tolerance. I cant look it up right now, but if you go back through the archives youll find it. Type opiod tolerance in the search window.
Your not likely to find a doctor who will prescribe opiods off label (for something other than pain)
Bless you for your honesty.
I dont want to suggest that any meds are the answer to anyones problems, not even my own, but many of us cant seem to move forward with out a little help.
Users take drugs to move on with life
Abusers take drugs to quit

> Hi Femlite,
> Thanks so much for your response! What is your personal opinion on the issue?
> -Elle

 

Re: Opiates: Addiction, etc.

Posted by Jason H. on October 19, 2003, at 17:53:11

In reply to Re: Opiates: Addiction, etc., posted by Shoobie Doo on October 19, 2003, at 5:39:51

> Sorry, have to disagree. It's not true that the main problems with opiates stem from the laws around the drugs. Being on heroin or prescribed opiates really does change your view of reality profoundly, it makes you think that things are OK when they are not, it makes you takes risks that you would not otherwise. And once you are addicted your ability to make that "free choice of a consenting adult" is taken away from you. It's not just about street heroin- it's the same if you are using pharmaceutical opiates.
>
> As an ex addict, I can tell you that in the long term, my opiate addiction did nothing but compound and worsen and my depression and anxiety.

I have to somewhat disagree, as a former heroin addict myself, I don't think any heroin addict does anything malicious while high on an opiate or opiod. The problem comes into play only when you don't have it and massive withdrawl comes in, at least that's when I became crazy, looking for any means to get my dope. For me, and I assume many other heroin addicts, after 30 days it's not the high we crave really, it's just being well and able to function that we long for. So in a sense, I think it was correct to say that legalization makes a huge difference when it comes to heorin or opiod related crime. As for it not effecting your life, well that's just milarky. I couldn't count the number of times I dropped a cigarette into a piece of furniture, not even realizing that it was still lit and burning the couch or chair until there was a 6 inch burn hole in it. It absolutely effects everyday life, that's not to say however that if regulated it still would.

 

Re: Opiates: Addiction, etc.

Posted by Shoobie Doo on October 19, 2003, at 20:05:44

In reply to Re: Opiates: Addiction, etc., posted by Jason H. on October 19, 2003, at 17:53:11

Hi Jason
I was really talking about problems relating to oneself and one's pychological wellness. I never stole or did crime to fund my habit, but I got myself into a terrible mess due to bad decisions I made during my heroin addiction, while at the time I felt invulnerable and like nothing could touch me. Sure, I was never malicious or anything but without a doubt I damaged myself quite badly. I think were these drugs not prohibited, then the self damage would still occur.

 

Re: Use and Abuse femlite

Posted by Elle2021 on October 19, 2003, at 22:33:24

In reply to Use and Abuse Elle2021, posted by femlite on October 19, 2003, at 7:34:54

Hi Femlite,
Thanks for you kind words. :) People told me the same thing, that I would end up in rehab if I didn't stop taking Vicodin, but I didn't. They just didn't understand WHY I was taking it. Not because I was addicted to being "high" but because I felt NORMAL!

I know I won't find a doctor who will prescribe it to me for anxiety. I think it's funny and sort of a paradox how doctors will prescribe it for physical pain, but not emotional pain...doesn't make sense to me.

I totally understand what you mean about having huge cocktails of meds. I have been prescribed tons of different ones, but so far, none help (except one of course...Vicodin)! So, I just keep taking this Paxil and mostly throwing it back up because it makes me sick to my stomach. I rely mostly on my benzos (Ativan) if I want to make it through the day...Klonopin if I want to forget everything and float through the week...:)

Love talking to you!
Elle
> Hey Elle ,
> It really scared me wehen a good friend told me I was going to end up in rehab because of my use of opiod meds. I have fibromiyalgia and chronic back pain. I stopped taking them on the spot (so much for addtion withdraw) I read up.
> My friend convinced me that I was displacing my need for psycho active meds. on my use of opiods. About this idea, I believed she was correct, because the more I thought about it, the more it dawned on me that my depression and mood swings had abated that whole year. I was still in pain. But I asked for her advise and she gave it, psych drugs are safer, and less addicting.
> Having now followed her advice, I believe the possibility exist that I may end up on opiod medication again. Why.....? glad you asked
> 1.The meds Im on now are helping my motivation and depression but doing nothing for my back pain and causing me to have anxiety, the likes of which I have never know.
> 2. Now that I have an anxiety problem Ive been prescribed benzodiazapines ("a very safe and non addicitng drug" right?)
> 3.The addiction propaganda on benzodiazapines is far scarier than any thing Ive read about opiods.
> 4. After having been a good patient an allowed them to turn me about with one med cocktail after another with with little or no sucess...
> 5. I may just decide that it is whole lot easier to take ONE med that WORKS
>
> You've got it right, but its hard to move in that direction with out professional help. And you should have professional monitoring,
> because after all we are not drug addicts, just people who need pharmacuetical help.
> And isn't it wonderful how the pharm companies and doctors have all been so glad to help us with one wonder drug or another.
> Its amazing how acceptable drug ussage has become. (certain drugs, anyway)
> Well for now, we have to play guinee pig and keep voicing our opinion (loudly) that there isnt any med cocktail on earth that makes us feel like an opiod.
>
> It was the happiest year of my life.
>
> But as I am not an addict, (and I have drawers full of the stuff, I've not used since) I will continue on the socialbly acceptable path of taking more and more professionally prescribed medications to make me feel normal.
>
> I have completly digressed, forgive me.
> Yes tolerance is a real and dangerous issue.There is a medication you can take in small amonuts with opiods that eliminates the problem of tolerance. I cant look it up right now, but if you go back through the archives youll find it. Type opiod tolerance in the search window.
> Your not likely to find a doctor who will prescribe opiods off label (for something other than pain)
> Bless you for your honesty.
> I dont want to suggest that any meds are the answer to anyones problems, not even my own, but many of us cant seem to move forward with out a little help.
> Users take drugs to move on with life
> Abusers take drugs to quit
>
>
>
> > Hi Femlite,
> > Thanks so much for your response! What is your personal opinion on the issue?
> > -Elle
>
>

 

Re: Opiates: Addiction, etc.

Posted by MamaB on October 20, 2003, at 10:47:47

In reply to Re: Opiates: Addiction, etc., posted by Shoobie Doo on October 19, 2003, at 5:39:51

AMEN !

 

Re: Opiates: Addiction, etc.

Posted by MamaB on October 20, 2003, at 10:51:40

In reply to Re: Opiates: Addiction, etc., posted by Shoobie Doo on October 19, 2003, at 5:39:51

The above amen was to ShoobyDoo's post -- As a former addict I certainly agree with him/her.


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