![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by francesco on September 4, 2003, at 13:33:14
In reply to On the need for detail, clarity, and accuracy » Francesco , posted by DSCH on September 4, 2003, at 12:16:21
Ok. I'm trying not to feel hurt : ) But I am playing no game at all. And I can't see the inconsistencies in what I've written. Please understand that my mother-language is not English and I'm making a lot of effort to write in it (moreover Prozac isn't helping me to think clearly at the moment). I'm sorry if you had the sensation I was tricking you. Ok, I'm likely to have a lot of disturbs but I think multiple personality is not one of them : ) I'll try to exlain my problem again but I don't know what you found contradictory so I'm waiting for you questions : ) Anyway I really appreciate your support and the fact you're losing your time for my problems : )
When I'm not on meds I'm very easily distracted, When I'm on meds I tend to be overfocused. When I'm not on meds I tend to think very fast and so I can't concentrate. If I am worry about something I soon forget it because in the meantime other things will worry me. My main problem is daydreaming but my mood can be good. I can start a lot of things but I never finish one. For example I can decide to study, but after five minutes I can decide that I have to read the newspaper, but then a friend can call me, and I can stay two hours with him at the phone, and so on. Maybe I have OCD features even when I'm not on meds but my main problem is ADHD. For example I don't have compulsions ... When I'm not on meds I like to stay with people and I'm very bored when I'm alone (even if because I can't manage to do anything). I talk a lot (maybe too much), I tend to be witty, what depresses me is my lack of concentration but I don't think mood is my main problem.
When I'm on meds on the other side I tend to be very (too) concentrated on what I'm doing. This helped me a lot with study (made a me a perfectionist). But my mood is not that great (when I'm depressed on meds I'm depressed while without meds I'm just sad). I feel nervous and serious, and I can't stop doing a thing if the thing is not finished ... as I said I get very anxious if there are people around and this makes me drink.
When I'm not on meds on the other side I tend to be excited by people, I don't want to say I feel calm, but I'm agitated in a funny way (let's say like Woody Allen would be). On the other side when I'm on meds I resemble more to Kafka : )
So, sorry again if I made some confusion in the previous posts, what did you find incoherent ?
Thanks a lot for your time and care
Posted by DSCH on September 4, 2003, at 15:38:37
In reply to I try again » DSCH, posted by francesco on September 4, 2003, at 13:33:14
It sounds to me like you have "typical" ADHD, inattention plus hyperactivity... but with the oddity that Wellbutrin affected you quite badly, whereas it is one of the "first line" meds for adult ADHD in the USA. But then little can be taken away from that in your case because Wellbutrin doesn't have a clear psychoactive mechanism as far as I have read.
Messing around with the serotonin system when it isn't broken is likely to lead to trouble. In my case I believe it led to apathy. Having it lead to compulsiveness is something I have not heard about but paradoxical reactions are not unheard of (Prozac and other SSRIs often help compulsives). By the way, what you describe sounds more like mild compulsive personality traits rather than full-blown OCD. Real OCD tends to involve time-consuming, complex, and often self-destructive rituals related to orderliness and hygene (washing hands dozens of times a day, counting all the leaves on trees, etc.).
What medications does classic ADHD point to other than Wellbutrin? Stimulants like the various amphetamines (Desoxyn, Dexedrine, Adderall, etc.) and methylphenidate (Ritalin). And then there are the selective norepinepherine reuptake inhibitors like reboxetine (Edronax and Vestra) and atomoxetine (Strattera).
I would recommend exhausting all your possibilities of obtaining and trying out one of the NE-RIs before going to the stimulants because of the dependence/tolerance/addiction/abuse issues.
The nutritional supplements you may want to try out (in addition to a good multivitamin/mineral complex) would be L-phenylalanine and the OPCs from grape seed/pine bark extract. I would recommend talking it over with your pdoc first if you will take them in addition to meds.
Posted by francesco on September 4, 2003, at 17:18:14
In reply to I try again » DSCH, posted by francesco on September 4, 2003, at 13:33:14
Thank so much. I think Reboxetine is worth of a trial. I have to say that my very first days on Wellbutrin have not been so bad. It was after the "stop and restart" that I went bonkers (as you said some somewhere else). And my withdrawal from Celexa was very recent too therefore I don't know if I had the full benefit from it ... anyway I just tried it for few days (3+7). Now I'm considering to quit the Prozac because my mental impairment is considerable (half an hour to write these few lines)... I'll keep you informed. Best wishes and thanks again
Posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 10:24:32
In reply to Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » francesco, posted by DSCH on September 4, 2003, at 15:38:37
> It sounds to me like you have "typical" ADHD, inattention plus hyperactivity...
Hi DSCH,
I have been following a number of your posts with francesco, and have been very impressed with the reasonableness of your replies, and have found them helpful.
Somethings struck me about francescos descriptions (with regard to myself) and i hope you dont mind my jumping in with some comments and questions.
symptoms described by francesco, "narrow mindedness, judging people, avoidance of people, irritability, bearing grudges, trouble stopping an activity to start another, apathy and daydreaming"
I have all these symptoms and have been diagnosed as distymic. (a diagnsis I am not sure I agree with)
I have other symptoms, as follows, insomnia, exsecive talkitiveness, racing thoughts. I have these symptoms on an ongoing basis. They occasionally erupt into full mania, grandiose thinking, euphoria, but no delusional aspects.
I have not been forthcoming about suicide ideation, with pdoc, as I dont believe I would ever do it, just wishing I was dead is the extent. Had 2-3 "incidences" from adolecences into my 20s.
Pdoc believes I am hypomanic and that is my baseline personality. (I am reluctant to accept this diagnosis as well)
My brain feels stimulated to the point of interferring with my life. I am sick of it. It seems to be getting worse the older I get.(42)
I feel buzzed at all times. Unless depression sets in. Then I feel the symptoms francesco described and listed above, narrow mindesness, judging, irritability...
Could this be considered agitated depression, the suicide ideation is intermittant, and linked to life circmstances, but has not stopped and seems to be increasing slightly.
I have used opiod pain meds during the past year. I am off them now. But as i titrated down, it became apparent to me that my mood swings were returning and had obviously abated during that pain med period. (pdoc thinks this is the root of my sleep problems, which i tried to explain have been life long)
The reason I mention the opiod period is that during that time my ability to focus actually increased and was not as obssesive as it feels now. My brain waves seemed slower, but i did not feel cognitive impairment. My chess game actually improved during this time. I found myself better able to focus and block out external stimulation.
I excersized regularly, started a new diet, and lost 20 pounds. Since going off opiods depression and apathy (regarding eating habbits and excersize) have returned.I sit at the computer for hours trying to better understand what is happening to me.
The mania is constant. Insomnia and racing thoughts, irritableness and lack of focuse and "unbuzzy" concentraition, is impossible. I feel like my brain hurts.
First pdoc recomended zoloft and I did not sleep for 3 solid days. Dicontinued imediately.I am on nerontin for racing thoughts, but can only tolerate it at night, feel too washed out during day use.
Current pdoc has prescribed, trazadone for sleep, which so far has only worked 1 night out of 4 nights.
And Wellbutrin SR (100mg am - 100mg. at noon) for my "distymia" After one weeks use I feel sedated and emotionally blunted. Head still feels buzzy.
Wellbutrin is one of the "first line" meds for adult ADHD in the USA.
Is ADHD possible to have in conjunture with bp2?
>
What medications does classic ADHD point to other than Wellbutrin? Stimulants like the various amphetaminesI really dont want further stimulation.
My pdoc is totally opposed to something mood stabilizing or any benzo products.
I feel like I am never relaxed. I always feel agitated or anxious. (is there a difference?)
Need to run, any insights you have would be greatly appriciated.
Posted by DSCH on September 9, 2003, at 12:12:14
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » DSCH, posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 10:24:32
femlite, it sounds to me like you might have some overlap going between OCD, ADD, and bipolar disorder. You would be a pretty good candidate for undergoing brain imaging given all that you have going on and the feeling you have that it is getting worse as time goes on. Unfortunately there are few private or university psychiatric clinics that will do this at present.
Relevant pages from Dr. Amen's website are...
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch8.asp
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch12.asp
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch13.aspYou might want to see how you are "scored" on his checklist (I'm not sure if it is properly geared towards bipolar tendancies though).
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/checklist/default.aspThe activity "buzz" might be addressed by lithium or a deconvulsant (Depakote, etc.) if SSRIs and Anafranil don't work.
Have you ever been on a SSRI?
I'm not overly familiar with opoids and neurontin. Yes, there probably is significance in your reaction to the opoid pain meds.
Posted by DSCH on September 9, 2003, at 12:26:09
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » DSCH, posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 10:24:32
Another resource I think is helpful is Blake Graham's Nutrional Healing website. You might want to see if you fall "nicely" into the histadelic type noted by the late Carl Pfeiffer, MD.
http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/subtypes.htmBeen taking your vitamins and minerals? ;-)
Posted by DSCH on September 9, 2003, at 12:53:06
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » DSCH, posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 10:24:32
Francesco found this older post and brought to my attention in a thread over in PB alternative.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020103/msgs/89263.htmlI had something quite similar to what this person called "ADHD shutdown".
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 13:09:27
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » DSCH, posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 10:24:32
<<What medications does classic ADHD point to other than Wellbutrin? Stimulants like the various amphetamines
I really dont want further stimulation.>>
Stimulants have a calming affect on people with ADD/ADHD.
KDi in Texas
Posted by DSCH on September 9, 2003, at 13:17:38
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects?, posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 13:09:27
Just putting this together so I can share links to resources I have found to be either helpful or intellectually stimulating. Right now just two links (one to you, Dr. Bob!) and no fancy trimmin's (as you would say, KDi?). ;-) More to come soon, though. Also has contact information (slightly cloaked to foil spammers).
Posted by Francesco on September 9, 2003, at 14:20:11
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » DSCH, posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 10:24:32
Hi Femlite, as Kimberly pointed out stimulants seem to have calming properties for ADHD people (but if you are bipolar too stimulants can precipitate mania). For what I've read one person can have both BP2 and ADHD. If mania is one of your syntoms why do you disagree with the hypomania's diagnosis ? I would like to add that sleep deprivation can lead by itself to mania ... and BPII can lead to ADHD-like syntoms ... Anyway I experienced narrowmindness and so on only when I was under meds (Anafranil). Hope some of this helps
Posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 14:52:43
In reply to Lots going on there » femlite, posted by DSCH on September 9, 2003, at 12:12:14
> femlite, it sounds to me like you might have some overlap going between OCD, ADD, and bipolar disorder. You would be a pretty good candidate for undergoing brain imaging given all that you have going on and the feeling you have that it is getting worse as time goes on. Unfortunately there are few private or university psychiatric clinics that will do this at present.
Thanks for your reply, DSCH,
Quetion; How do you think I should handle a pdoc that insists Im just a manic personality. I dont like being a manic person, I dont care if it is my baseline personalty.
She calls it hypomainia because Im not delusional.
Most descriptions Ive read for bp2 indicate that only 3 of the 4-5 behviors are required to be classified as a manic disorder.
> Relevant pages from Dr. Amen's website are...
> http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch8.asp
> http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch12.asp
> http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch13.asp
>
> You might want to see how you are "scored" on his checklist (I'm not sure if it is properly geared towards bipolar tendancies though).
Im sure it would be worth looking into. Any insight into what direction I should take is incredibly apreciated.
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/checklist/default.asp
> The activity "buzz" might be addressed by lithium or a deconvulsant (Depakote, etc.) if SSRIs and Anafranil don't work.
> Have you ever been on a SSRI?Yes, on Zoloft for 4 days. I did not sleep at all. Called pdoc (last one) and she told me to discontinue as a result of hyper brain stem stimulation, also known as serotonin syndrome.
> I'm not overly familiar with opoids and neurontin. Yes, there probably is significance in your reaction to the opoid pain meds.
Just what the signifigance is, is driveing me to further distraction. Know one whats to talk about it except in terms of addiction potential.Im not interested in taking it for reasons I think are far more important, like not noticing pain in my body that is pathological rather than chronic, like my fibro.
Ive tried to take a dose of percocet when my back pain is especially bad. I get a sore throat and begin to feel run down. Im sure if I kept taking it I wouldnt notice feeling sick, but then Im not so "dependent" as to completely forgoe commmon sense.
I guess the question would be, what psychoative drug mimics that level of reduction in anxeity, produces ephoria, and calms the nervous system.
Somehow, Im afraid there isnt one. This past year, before I WENT OFF the opiods, was one of the most relaxed, enjoyable, and calm years of my life. I spent alot more time with my kids.
That was hard to walk away from and is even harder to forget.
Posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 15:11:27
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects?, posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 13:09:27
> <<What medications does classic ADHD point to other than Wellbutrin? Stimulants like the various amphetamines
>
> I really dont want further stimulation.>>
>
> Stimulants have a calming affect on people with ADD/ADHD.
>
> KDi in TexasThanks for the info KDi.
I have a feeling if I ask for stimulants, she will say what she said when I asked for sleep aids, "Lets avoid anything addicting"
Im so tired of hearing that. Ive quit more "addicting" things in my life than many people can imagine. I really have. Im not interested in becoming non functioning.
Im sorry if it sounds like Im ranting. It has nothing to do with you. Im pretty upset at the moment. I just came from my first session of therapy. She wants to connect all my mental and pysical ailments to my traumatic childhood.
I dont even care. Ive tried meditation, (shes recomending relaxation therapy), yoga, every diet imaginable, scads of vitamins, chiropractry, accupunture, and God. Some of those things are still very much apart of my life. They have all helped at some level. None them have alleviated my mental quagmire.
I just want to get on with my life. Im so tired of people telling and not listening to me.
Thanks for listening.
>
>
Posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 15:29:11
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » femlite, posted by Francesco on September 9, 2003, at 14:20:11
> Hi Femlite, as Kimberly pointed out stimulants seem to have calming properties for ADHD people (but if you are bipolar too stimulants can precipitate mania).
I agree, this is real concern.
>For what I've read one person can have both BP2 and ADHD. If mania is one of your syntoms why do you disagree with the hypomania's diagnosis ?
Hypo mania, according to my pdoc, is not one of the symptoms of true bipolar2, unless acompanied by severe depression. According to her, Hypo mania (mild mania) is just my personality, not a disorder. Does that answer your question?
I disagree with her. I beleive my mania is not hypo, but hyper, ie...disrupting my life.
> I would like to add that sleep deprivation can lead by itself to mania ... and BPII can lead to ADHD-like syntoms ...
This is my experience. The less I sleep, the less I sleep. The less I sleep the more wired my brain gets. I become irritable (obviously) because others cant think as fast as I can.
Thats why I feel a true sleep aid would be helpful. Just to break the cycle> Anyway I experienced narrowmindness and so on only when I was under meds (Anafranil). Hope some of this helps.
Thanks for setting that straight.
I just felt like I could relate to those symptoms
Thanks for making your self avaiable.
Posted by DSCH on September 9, 2003, at 15:43:08
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects?, posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 15:11:27
> Im so tired of hearing that. Ive quit more "addicting" things in my life than many people can imagine. I really have. Im not interested in becoming non functioning.
Are these RX'd meds or "something else"? If they were "something else" and you felt benefit from taking them at the time, that could offer some clues as to what is going on and what type of medication(s) you need.
> Im sorry if it sounds like Im ranting. It has nothing to do with you. Im pretty upset at the moment. I just came from my first session of therapy. She wants to connect all my mental and pysical ailments to my traumatic childhood.
You'll likely see both the psychological and physiological "kindling" of your problems by doing this. My philsophy is not to discount information if it is possibly relevant and could act as a "springboard" to solutions without examining it carefully first.
> I dont even care. Ive tried meditation, (shes recomending relaxation therapy), yoga, every diet imaginable, scads of vitamins, chiropractry, accupunture, and God. Some of those things are still very much apart of my life. They have all helped at some level. None them have alleviated my mental quagmire.
> I just want to get on with my life. Im so tired of people telling and not listening to me.
>
> Thanks for listening.You're welcome. :-)
I picked up a reference to 'fibro' in another post of yours. Fibromyalgia? It's frequently co-morbid with other psych problems.
Posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 16:19:19
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » femlite, posted by DSCH on September 9, 2003, at 12:26:09
> Another resource I think is helpful is Blake Graham's Nutrional Healing website. You might want to see if you fall "nicely" into the histadelic type noted by the late Carl Pfeiffer, MD.
> http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/subtypes.htm
>
> Been taking your vitamins and minerals? ;-)Honestly, Im burnt out on vitamin therapy. Ive spent thousands of dollars over the years.
MSM 10000mg a day for fibro and back pain
EPA 6000mg a day, pain and mood,and liver, still
Silymarin 300mg. a day for liver
Gluco/Chodr. 3000mg. for joint pain
Multi always, still
Vit C 2000-4000 depending on how Im feeling, still
Co Q10 for energy 100 -150 mg a day, still
L-carnitine 500-1000mg a day for energy, too actvg
DHEA 25-50mg. a day energy (blood tested low)still
Potassium Gluc.595mg. rubber leg feeling, as need
vitE 400 IU. per day. free radical prev. still
Magnesium Aspt. 400mg.at night to calm nerves
T3LA 45mg. for hypo thyroid, still
Bcomplex ea. B lists as 100mcg, folic400 mcg.stillOthers that I cant remember, too numerous to remember.
Ive always felt some bennefit, but never real cessation of moodswings. No effect on sleep patterns.
Thanks for asking
Posted by DSCH on September 9, 2003, at 17:08:52
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » DSCH, posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 16:19:19
> > Another resource I think is helpful is Blake Graham's Nutrional Healing website. You might want to see if you fall "nicely" into the histadelic type noted by the late Carl Pfeiffer, MD.
> > http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/subtypes.htm
> >
> > Been taking your vitamins and minerals? ;-)
>
> Honestly, Im burnt out on vitamin therapy. Ive spent thousands of dollars over the years.
>
> MSM 10000mg a day for fibro and back pain
> EPA 6000mg a day, pain and mood,and liver, still
> Silymarin 300mg. a day for liver
> Gluco/Chodr. 3000mg. for joint pain
> Multi always, still
> Vit C 2000-4000 depending on how Im feeling, still
> Co Q10 for energy 100 -150 mg a day, still
> L-carnitine 500-1000mg a day for energy, too actvg
> DHEA 25-50mg. a day energy (blood tested low)still
> Potassium Gluc.595mg. rubber leg feeling, as need
> vitE 400 IU. per day. free radical prev. still
> Magnesium Aspt. 400mg.at night to calm nerves
> T3LA 45mg. for hypo thyroid, still
> Bcomplex ea. B lists as 100mcg, folic400 mcg.still
>
> Others that I cant remember, too numerous to remember.
>
> Ive always felt some bennefit, but never real cessation of moodswings. No effect on sleep patterns.
> Thanks for askingOK, that is a pretty extensive list. Larry Hoover would be of more help discussing this aspect than I would.
Posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 17:58:50
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » femlite, posted by DSCH on September 9, 2003, at 15:43:08
>
> Are these RX'd meds or "something else"? If they were "something else" and you felt benefit from taking them at the time, that could offer some clues as to what is going on and what type of medication(s) you need.Well, experimaental (self medicating) drug use ended 20 + years ago. It included cocaine and a brief episode of heroine to ease the coke crash.
Left town and drug friends and never thought about it again.I liked mushrooms (disliked acid) when i was a teenager. They made the world come into sharper focus, decreased my inhibitions to express my feelings, colors brighter, sounds more clear. When ever I would come down, I noticed audio change first. Every thing sounded dull again.
Its my theory that I was seeking trancendence from the limits of my traumatic childhood and subsequent dysfuntion. I didnt get high to get high. I really was seeking something, I believe God. Mom said I was always the Spiritual one. My shroom trips probably totaled 5-8. Left that town, never thought about it agian. (we moved aroud alot)
>
>
> You'll likely see both the psychological and physiological "kindling" of your problems by doing this. My philsophy is not to discount information if it is possibly relevant and could act as a "springboard" to solutions without examining it carefully first.
>
> > I dont even care. Ive tried meditation, (shes recomending relaxation therapy), yoga, every diet imaginable, scads of vitamins, chiropractry, accupunture, and God. Some of those things are still very much apart of my life. They have all helped at some level. None them have alleviated my mental quagmire.
>
> > I just want to get on with my life. Im so tired of people telling and not listening to me.
> >
> > Thanks for listening.
>
> You're welcome. :-)
>
> I picked up a reference to 'fibro' in another post of yours. Fibromyalgia? It's frequently co-morbid with other psych problems.I know this all too well. Things are getting worse and they want to treat me as midly depressed. Maybe I have suffered from distymia at times but I can remember some sevearly destructive behavior as recently as 2 years ago.(Before opiods)
Just last week, I had suicidal ideation.It doesnt last very long, hours or a day or two. I never talk about it. Its demoralizing. I believe I will never do it. Only think of it.Im sorry if I seem closed off to ideas other than meds. Ive avoided meds for 25 years. Tried everything else. Then I realized what life could be like not mentally disturbed when I was on opiods.
I realized the reluctance I felt at tapering off was related to my reapearing mood swings and was an issue of dicpalcement. After that my conviction to never use meds. to treat my mental disorder seemed false. I realized I had been self medicating all my life. Food, sex, alchohol, and sugar.
Now, all I want is to be free from this disorder. I want to be happy again. I know there is know such thing as constant happiness. But even my frustrations were more managable on opiods.
I was fully prepared for lithium and an AD. I asked her about lamictal, she didnt even consider it. Said I was distymic. And gave me trazodone for sleep, and wellbutrin for depression. Notheing is stopping this sense of agitation.
Watching movies helps (alpha state, ya know)But how much can i do that w/o feeling like Im wasting my life?
Im sorry. I ranting again. Its not hard to do when your depressed and your mind is going a mile a minute.
Thanks againPS I really appreciated a past post you made to someone about giving current meds a fair trial, before disagreeing with pdoc. it was very sane and reasonable. It saved me from a real and overwhelming panic that day. Thank you
Posted by francesco on September 9, 2003, at 21:24:52
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » DSCH, posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 17:58:50
Hi Femlite, the only suggestion I can give is ... if you don't like what your pdoc says change your pdoc ! I can't understand the point in not giving you benzos if you need them ... there is something more dangerous than taking benzos like not sleeping for nights and nights ! I can truly understand you because after an insane withdrawal of meds many years ago I didn't sleep for something like ten days and I got completely paranoid ... You think faster and faster and then you crack ... But my only way to sleep was taking something to make me sleep ... I slept something like 16 hours, when I woke up felt horrible, but I was something like a human being (sorry if I sound "straight" ... but my knowledge of English is not optimal so I can use a limited number of words : ) Take care
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 10, 2003, at 8:18:40
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects?, posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 15:11:27
Strattera is what I'm on for ADD/ADHD. It's NOT a stimulant. I noticed the first sign of improvement this morning (started last Friday) with the Scrunchi Success Story (has to do with needing scrunchi for a bath, walking to bedroom to get one, get distracted, forget, go back to bathroom, and repeat... 3 or 4 times.) I was able to backtrack and remember the first time.
The fact that you're upset with your therapist about going over your childhood indicates that he/she may be onto something. I quit my first therapist because she wanted to discuss my relationship with my mother. Years later I realized that she was right. But hey, it's OK to vent about your frustrations and get feedback to help you thru this difficult time.
Good Luck!
KDi in Texas
> > <<What medications does classic ADHD point to other than Wellbutrin? Stimulants like the various amphetamines
> >
> > I really dont want further stimulation.>>
> >
> > Stimulants have a calming affect on people with ADD/ADHD.
> >
> > KDi in Texas
>
> Thanks for the info KDi.
>
> I have a feeling if I ask for stimulants, she will say what she said when I asked for sleep aids, "Lets avoid anything addicting"
>
> Im so tired of hearing that. Ive quit more "addicting" things in my life than many people can imagine. I really have. Im not interested in becoming non functioning.
>
> Im sorry if it sounds like Im ranting. It has nothing to do with you. Im pretty upset at the moment. I just came from my first session of therapy. She wants to connect all my mental and pysical ailments to my traumatic childhood.
>
> I dont even care. Ive tried meditation, (shes recomending relaxation therapy), yoga, every diet imaginable, scads of vitamins, chiropractry, accupunture, and God. Some of those things are still very much apart of my life. They have all helped at some level. None them have alleviated my mental quagmire.
>
> I just want to get on with my life. Im so tired of people telling and not listening to me.
>
> Thanks for listening.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 10, 2003, at 8:28:16
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » DSCH, posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 17:58:50
<Im sorry. I ranting again. Its not hard to do when your depressed and your mind is going a mile a minute.
Thanks again
<Effexor XR 2x150 daily
Straterra 2x40 daily
Trazadone 1x100 every nightThis slowed my out-of-control thoughts down to a manageable level. I'm not ping-ponging like I used to.
Effexor get's so much bad publicity here. But if it works for you like it works for me, it's pure GOLD.
Posted by femlite on September 10, 2003, at 8:56:21
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » DSCH, posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 17:58:50
I feel like I should elaberate on the things Ive quit that could be considered addicting. (ran out of time before)
Any info you have about street drug use and its long term effect on mental health,(residual and otherwise) is appreciated.
DSCH, I also appreciate the thought you had that the differnce I felt when taking opiods, could shedd light on which med direction to go in.
It is a relief to be able to discuss it and not hear the same old addiction advisories.
You are a gifted counselor. Thank youBack to my point.
Quit all street drug use 20 + years ago, never used since
Sexual addiction, celebate for 7 years
Fasted from all sugar & sweets for a year
fasted from meat 3 years
Threw my TV in the dumpster. No tv for for 3 years
I think I used alchohol as medication, but I dont have a drinking problem per se. I recently learned it disrupts sleep more, I pretty much dropped it. I ve had 1/2 a beer in a month, and i wont drink close to bed time.I guess what Im trying to say is that any time I learned or realized something was bad for me, I quit it cold.
Ive never been additcted to anything,.. ei.. not been able to quit. My will is strong. But it has also been my undoing at times.
I think I could agree with the suggestion that all my experimentation has possibly been counter productive, mentally speaking.3 years ago my fatigue increased dramatically, weight gain ensued. I didn't know at the time, my thyroid was underactive.
I started taking Ephedra. It increased my energy signifigantly. But something unexpected occured, my thinking became more productive. Ive had real trouble getting up in the morning for years, I feel disoriented and depressed. I cant think of a reason to move. Complete confusion.
That completely changed using ephedra.
It was wonderful. I took it first thing, by the time I got the kids up and sat down to breakfast, I knew everything I wanted to do that day and actually had the energy to do it.I didnt even care about the weight loss at that point. I felt the psychological benefits alone were worth the supposed risks.
After six months I crashed. My adrenals were exhausted, and my pain threshold seemed completely diminished.
My neck mucles tightened up and I couldnt move (ive had neck and back pain most of my life).
I knew I had to quit taking Ephedra.
My GP made 20 injections of Cortisol into the base of my skull, definately not fun. But it worked for a while. (I have since realized that cortisol triggers mania, and afraid to use it again)
Two more serious crashes, and I was competely bed ridden for a month. Thats when my GP prescribed the Percocet and Soma. That was a year ago.
It has taken me a year to get to point where I can sit in a chair for more than 20 minutes with out pain.
I completely dropped the percocet 2 months ago. I have no desire to take it again.I just recently quit using Soma. (another med I was told was addicting) What motivated me was feeling like Im loosing mucle tone
But my back and neck are starting to tighten up again. I dont want to take it, but I may not have a choice. Im going to try to wait it out,it may be a withdrawl effect.A good friend pointed out to me a couple of months ago that my resistance to psycho active meds, seemed inconsistent with the fact that I had been self medicating my depression, especially the last 2-3 years. I realized she was right.
Thanks all, for letting me get this out and down on paper.
My husband suggested that I compile all the post Ive made here and give a copy to my pdoc. I not sure she would read it or being moved by it. But it is worth a try.
Its a help to have someone to say these things to (and find support from). I dont think I would write these things down for myself. If Im not talking to someone, I am not very willing to consiously recall things that are painful to think about
Posted by femlite on September 10, 2003, at 9:34:45
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects?, posted by femlite on September 10, 2003, at 9:26:59
Sorry about the double post. I keep forgetting to include name of previous poster.
> > Strattera is what I'm on for ADD/ADHD. It's NOT a stimulant. I noticed the first sign of improvement this morning (started last Friday) with the Scrunchi Success Story (has to do with needing scrunchi for a bath, walking to bedroom to get one, get distracted, forget, go back to bathroom, and repeat... 3 or 4 times.) I was able to backtrack and remember the first time.
I can totally relate to your dilema. Thats great, you found something to help. Ive had the same problem for about 8 years. I just figured I was getting old (Im only 42). I still dont know what to think. Its good to hear other peoples experiences.
> > The fact that you're upset with your therapist about going over your childhood indicates that he/she may be onto something. I quit my first therapist because she wanted to discuss my relationship with my mother. Years later I realized that she was right. But hey, it's OK to vent about your frustrations and get feedback to help you thru this difficult time.
Thanks for the encouraging words. Im not sure it as simple as avoidance.
I dont agree with the premise of drudging up my past ghosts.
I have a faint understanding of the differnt types of therapy.
My understanding is not complete, but I thing CBT is more appealing to me. Learning techniques to manage current destructive thought patterns and learning to manage responses to overwhelming stimuli, seems more practical and to the point.
But you may be right.
Another thing that bothers me is the premise this therapist has that relaxation techniques and meditation are keys to mental health.
I cant deny their importance.
But Ive tried many of those things for years already.
Im pretty disallusioned about "alternative therapies" at the moment. Maybe thats a sign of mental disorder.
Ive resisted medication for 20 years. Now that I realize (by self medication) what freedom from mental anguish can be like, Ive become an absolute traitor to the cause of "alternatives".
I am with out a doubt an extremist. When I belive in something, I become extreamly resolute. It can get in the way sometimes, but its helped me survive.
> >
> > Good Luck!
> > KDi in Texas
Thanks KDi
I love Texas! Spent a little time in San Antonio.
> > <<What medications does classic ADHD point to other than Wellbutrin? Stimulants like the various amphetamines
> > > >
> > > > I really dont want further stimulation.>>
> > > >
> > > > Stimulants have a calming affect on people with ADD/ADHD.
> > > >
> > > > KDi in Texas
> > >
> > > Thanks for the info KDi.
> > >
>
Posted by DSCH on September 10, 2003, at 12:32:02
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » DSCH, posted by femlite on September 9, 2003, at 17:58:50
> PS I really appreciated a past post you made to someone about giving current meds a fair trial, before disagreeing with pdoc. it was very sane and reasonable. It saved me from a real and overwhelming panic that day. Thank you
Thank you. That likely would have been one of my long series of back-and-forths with Francesco. :-) (As it turns out he has dropped Prozac, I believe, because of the degree to which it impaired his ability to think).
Hearing that from you too helps add to my feelings that there is some purpose or efficacy to my own existence and efforts, which were sorely lacking not very long ago.
Posted by femlite on September 10, 2003, at 13:46:51
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » femlite, posted by DSCH on September 10, 2003, at 12:32:02
> > PS I really appreciated a past post you made to someone about giving current meds a fair trial, before disagreeing with pdoc. it was very sane and reasonable. It saved me from a real and overwhelming panic that day. Thank you
>
> Thank you. That likely would have been one of my long series of back-and-forths with Francesco. :-) (As it turns out he has dropped Prozac, I believe, because of the degree to which it impaired his ability to think).
>
> Hearing that from you too helps add to my feelings that there is some purpose or efficacy to my own existence and efforts, which were sorely lacking not very long ago.I really meant it and I believe you are gifted at counciling.
I dont know what happened in the past to make you doubt it, but I really believe we're all here for a reason.
Having mood disoders can make it harder to figure, but in some ways, unlike people who feel "normal" and accept the reasons fed them concerning their existence, reasons most of us here cant accept, the basic challenges of daily living, make us seek all the harder.
Question: Do you find my explanations of my problems over whelming?
I am curious, because while I have found great encouragement here, and even a few helpful concrete suggestions, what I feel I need the most is help with diagnosis.
Maybe my circumstances are too complex for an distant observer to unravel. It is definately confuseing for me.
Posted by DSCH on September 10, 2003, at 14:22:33
In reply to Re: Typical ADHD w/ atypical side effects? » DSCH, posted by femlite on September 10, 2003, at 13:46:51
> Question: Do you find my explanations of my problems over whelming?
> I am curious, because while I have found great encouragement here, and even a few helpful concrete suggestions, what I feel I need the most is help with diagnosis.
> Maybe my circumstances are too complex for an distant observer to unravel. It is definately confuseing for me.
>I don't know enough about fibromyalgia, neurontin, opoid pain meds, and all the supplements you are taking to offer you any hypotheses right now.
You might want to try posting with these as keywords to attract board members who know more than I do [for example: Larry Hoover and nutritional supplements (best done on the new alternative board)].
This is the end of the thread.
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