![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 34. Go back in thread:
Posted by DSCH on August 18, 2003, at 23:08:12
In reply to Re: Tryptophan and B6 » irishcatholic, posted by freedom2001 on August 18, 2003, at 22:23:35
> > I'm definitely hypoglycemic.
> > By biggest problem is waking up after 4-5 hrs sleep and feeling brain dead.
> > Any suggestions on what would be good to eat before bedtime?
> > I've experimented a lot with little success.
>
> Hi, I have OCD.
>
> I read that hypoglycemic is related to OCD. How do I know if I am hypoglycemic?
>
> Thanks and best regards,
> freedom.I rather doubt this. Hypoglycemia is more likely to masquerade as inattentive or limbic ADD IMO. Do you get drowsy after meals?
Posted by DSCH on August 18, 2003, at 23:23:03
In reply to Re: Tryptophan and B6, posted by irishcatholic on August 18, 2003, at 9:22:07
I didn't take my GNC B6 50 today and I survived a BIG chicken and spinach salad for dinner, just got a bit drowsy and was able to IM/surf on my computer rather than collapse on the bed. After a while I got up and drove about some and didn't notice any impairment.
I will be on the lookout for signs that my dopamine and norepinepherine are declining from less B6 (I still get some via a Centrum Silver in the morning).
Tomorrow GNC Ester-C gets added into the mix. I have become a familar sight at the local GNC. LOL
So, I'd say not to go overboard taking B6. About a half hour before dinner take some L-PA or DLPA to get the smaller and more mobile DA and NE precursor amino acid into your system and then be strict about limiting carb intake. Taking C along with the PA might help too.
Hope that helps.
Posted by DSCH on August 18, 2003, at 23:29:55
In reply to Re: Tryptophan and B6, posted by irishcatholic on August 18, 2003, at 9:22:07
Also, give yourself at least three to four hours after dinner before you go to bed if you can manage that.
Posted by McPac on August 19, 2003, at 0:10:53
In reply to Vitamin C and Norepinepherine, posted by DSCH on August 18, 2003, at 23:01:13
Are increased norepinephrine levels bad for OCD?
Read that Doc Amen thought Remeron was a good drug for ocd with add.....I know Remeron has worked for some ocd'ers but IF Rem increases NE (and it does, part. at higher levels, though at which dose I'd LOVE to know, anybody?) and IF (I say IF) NE is bad for ocd'ers, I don't know how Rem could work for ocd?
Posted by DSCH on August 19, 2003, at 7:34:58
In reply to Re: Vitamin C and Norepinepherine, posted by McPac on August 19, 2003, at 0:10:53
> Are increased norepinephrine levels bad for OCD?
> Read that Doc Amen thought Remeron was a good drug for ocd with add.....I know Remeron has worked for some ocd'ers but IF Rem increases NE (and it does, part. at higher levels, though at which dose I'd LOVE to know, anybody?) and IF (I say IF) NE is bad for ocd'ers, I don't know how Rem could work for ocd?Where did you come up with Amen recommending Remeron for OCD!?
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/prescriptions/default.asp
(See "Cingulate prescriptions")
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch13.asp
Also look at my back and forth with Francesco. On SLS's chart Remeron is a 5HT and NE *antagonist*. 5HT antagonism would seem to be contraindicated!
Posted by McPac on August 19, 2003, at 13:12:04
In reply to Remeron » McPac, posted by DSCH on August 19, 2003, at 7:34:58
"Also look at my back and forth with Francesco"
>>>>>>>>>> I can't find that thread, anyway that's where I saw the Amen suggestion, it was regarding overfocused add w/ ocd (thought I recall him sugg. Effexor and then mentioned other drugs, one being Rem? If Rem was a suggestion for ADD + ocd, then what's the diff. if it's OCD + add (unless the order changes things)..........anyway, Rem HAS helped ocd for some folks...I was communicating in the last year or so w/ a Stanford researcher who conducted the Rem for OCD trials---she said that Rem was successful for ocd in the trials (obviously not on ALL patients)....mostly successful at the higher dose range (typical for ocd)....bummer for me as I can't stand Rem at higher doses....take care!!!
Posted by Caleb462 on August 21, 2003, at 10:04:47
In reply to Remeron » McPac, posted by DSCH on August 19, 2003, at 7:34:58
> Also look at my back and forth with Francesco. On SLS's chart Remeron is a 5HT and NE *antagonist*. 5HT antagonism would seem to be contraindicated!
>No, no, no! Selective 5-HT antagonism is not contraindicated with OCD. You have to realize that the end result of SRI therapy in OCD is reduced activity at certain sertonin receptors, thus antagonism of 5-HT2/5-HT3 simply mimics the final response one would achieve with an SRI.
Also, the "gold standard" OCD medication, Anafranil, is itself a 5-HT2a ANTAGONIST.
One more thing, the adrenergic system is tricky, and remeron's antagonistic effect at alpha-2 adrenergic receptors actually increases NE release.
McPac is correct, there have been studies showing Remeron as an effective drug for OCD.
Posted by Caleb462 on August 21, 2003, at 10:08:55
In reply to Re: Vitamin C and Norepinepherine, posted by McPac on August 19, 2003, at 0:10:53
> Are increased norepinephrine levels bad for OCD?
> Read that Doc Amen thought Remeron was a good drug for ocd with add.....I know Remeron has worked for some ocd'ers but IF Rem increases NE (and it does, part. at higher levels, though at which dose I'd LOVE to know, anybody?) and IF (I say IF) NE is bad for ocd'ers, I don't know how Rem could work for ocd?Well think about it McPac, Anafranil is quite noradrenergic as well as serotonergic, Nardil increases NE.. yet these meds have been shown to help OCD. I don't think you can say positively that one neurotransmitter or another is inherently bad for OCD. It's quite feasible that some OCDers would have a bad reaction to increased NE, but this can't be said for everyone.
Posted by DSCH on August 21, 2003, at 11:47:42
In reply to Re: Remeron, posted by Caleb462 on August 21, 2003, at 10:04:47
>
> > Also look at my back and forth with Francesco. On SLS's chart Remeron is a 5HT and NE *antagonist*. 5HT antagonism would seem to be contraindicated!
> >
>
> No, no, no! Selective 5-HT antagonism is not contraindicated with OCD. You have to realize that the end result of SRI therapy in OCD is reduced activity at certain sertonin receptors, thus antagonism of 5-HT2/5-HT3 simply mimics the final response one would achieve with an SRI.
>
> Also, the "gold standard" OCD medication, Anafranil, is itself a 5-HT2a ANTAGONIST.
>
> One more thing, the adrenergic system is tricky, and remeron's antagonistic effect at alpha-2 adrenergic receptors actually increases NE release.
>
> McPac is correct, there have been studies showing Remeron as an effective drug for OCD.I thank you for the information. However, it would be nice to have it delivered with less adrenal content. ;-)
Posted by McPac on August 21, 2003, at 16:08:23
In reply to Re: Remeron, posted by Caleb462 on August 21, 2003, at 10:04:47
You RULE dude!
So does Ace (I miss that character!)
Posted by Caleb462 on August 21, 2003, at 16:16:30
In reply to Correction » Caleb462, posted by DSCH on August 21, 2003, at 11:47:42
> >
> > > Also look at my back and forth with Francesco. On SLS's chart Remeron is a 5HT and NE *antagonist*. 5HT antagonism would seem to be contraindicated!
> > >
> >
> > No, no, no! Selective 5-HT antagonism is not contraindicated with OCD. You have to realize that the end result of SRI therapy in OCD is reduced activity at certain sertonin receptors, thus antagonism of 5-HT2/5-HT3 simply mimics the final response one would achieve with an SRI.
> >
> > Also, the "gold standard" OCD medication, Anafranil, is itself a 5-HT2a ANTAGONIST.
> >
> > One more thing, the adrenergic system is tricky, and remeron's antagonistic effect at alpha-2 adrenergic receptors actually increases NE release.
> >
> > McPac is correct, there have been studies showing Remeron as an effective drug for OCD.
>
> I thank you for the information. However, it would be nice to have it delivered with less adrenal content. ;-)
>Haha.. sorry. No offense intended.
Posted by Caleb462 on August 21, 2003, at 16:17:29
In reply to Caleb, Re: Remeron, posted by McPac on August 21, 2003, at 16:08:23
> You RULE dude!
> So does Ace (I miss that character!)Yeah I miss him too. It would be especially helpful to have him around now that I've started Nardil.
Posted by McPac on August 21, 2003, at 16:30:38
In reply to Re: Caleb, Re: Remeron, posted by Caleb462 on August 21, 2003, at 16:17:29
"It would be especially helpful to have him around now that I've started Nardil"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caleb, you can e-mail Ace...he left his e-mail address to others here....I can't remember it but I'm sure someone here has it...maybe Ame???
How are you feeling on the Nardil so far?
Take care bro!!!!!!!!!
Posted by matthhhh on August 21, 2003, at 20:03:21
In reply to Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Remeron, posted by McPac on August 21, 2003, at 16:30:38
Anyone notice any benefits of tryptophan over 5 htp. I ve taken 5 htp didnt really do anything for me, but ive heard that tryptophan is an alternative. Does anyone know?
Posted by Caleb462 on August 21, 2003, at 21:16:16
In reply to Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Remeron, posted by McPac on August 21, 2003, at 16:30:38
> How are you feeling on the Nardil so far?
> Take care bro!!!!!!!!!Okay... well, truthfully I'm feeling horrible - but not because of the Nardil, I got on the Nardil BECAUSE I was feeling horrible. All my problems/symptoms are in full force and I've been completely freaking out lately.
I've noticed some sedation and some GI problems from the Nardil, nothing major... I feel like this med is my last resort, and if it doesn't work.... ugh, I don't even wanna think about it.
How are you doing?
Posted by McPac on August 22, 2003, at 15:31:56
In reply to Re: Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Remeron, posted by Caleb462 on August 21, 2003, at 21:16:16
"All my problems/symptoms are in full force and I've been completely freaking out lately"
>>>>>>>>>>> Caleb, what symptoms are really bad? OCD? depression? anxiety?
Posted by Caleb462 on August 23, 2003, at 12:06:24
In reply to Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Remeron, posted by McPac on August 22, 2003, at 15:31:56
> "All my problems/symptoms are in full force and I've been completely freaking out lately"
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Caleb, what symptoms are really bad? OCD? depression? anxiety?
>
>
>Primarily depression and anxiety. OCD hasn't been screwing me up to much lately, actually... though it is certainly still there. I've suprisingly been feeling OK today... whether its a lessening of effexor withdrawl, some initial benefits of nardil, or a lingering hydrocodone buzz... I can't say.
Posted by McPac on August 26, 2003, at 21:20:38
In reply to Re: Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Remeron, posted by Caleb462 on August 23, 2003, at 12:06:24
Hope that Nardil starts to work its magic for you soon Caleb. Effexor withdrawal---I'm sure THAT ain't fun!
Posted by Caleb462 on August 26, 2003, at 22:13:23
In reply to Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Remeron, posted by McPac on August 26, 2003, at 21:20:38
> Hope that Nardil starts to work its magic for you soon Caleb. Effexor withdrawal---I'm sure THAT ain't fun!
Me too, and thanks for the support.
And no... effexor withdrawal certainly is not fun... man, I was a wreck, physically, mentally and emotionally. I've found that anti-depressant withdrawal makes me a very, very angry person.
But things seem to be on the right track now.. I've started college, and having something to do everyday helps too I think.
Posted by McPac on August 27, 2003, at 23:40:03
In reply to Re: Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Remeron, posted by Caleb462 on August 23, 2003, at 12:06:24
Hey Caleb,
did the ssri meds ever do much good for you? (just wondering because with your symptoms ---depression/anxiety/ocd --- ssri's 'can' work very well for some--- did they ever work well for you?)
Later!
Posted by matthhhh on August 28, 2003, at 6:34:55
In reply to Re: Remeron, posted by Caleb462 on August 21, 2003, at 10:04:47
are u saying that ssris and sris result in decreased activity of the serotonin system thereby increasing the symptoms of ocd?
Posted by Caleb462 on August 28, 2003, at 10:16:13
In reply to Re: Remeron, posted by matthhhh on August 28, 2003, at 6:34:55
> are u saying that ssris and sris result in decreased activity of the serotonin system thereby increasing the symptoms of ocd?
No. I'm saying ssris and sris result in decreased activity of the serotonin system therby DECREASING the symptoms of ocd.
Posted by matthhhh on August 28, 2003, at 13:57:25
In reply to Re: Remeron, posted by Caleb462 on August 28, 2003, at 10:16:13
ocd results from low levels of serotonin. ssris increase serotonin in the brain thus reducing ocd. i have never heard of ssris decreasing serotoin
Posted by Caleb462 on August 28, 2003, at 15:24:29
In reply to Re: Remeron, posted by matthhhh on August 28, 2003, at 13:57:25
> ocd results from low levels of serotonin.
This is an unsubstantiated, likely false claim - though certainly it has become a widely believed, well.. rumor, is the best way to put it. There is no convincing evidence that OCD results from low levels of serotonin.>ssris increase serotonin in the brain thus reducing ocd. i have never heard of ssris decreasing serotoin
Yes, but SSRIs increase serotonin in the brain in a matter of hours, whereas it takes up to 12 weeks
for OCD symptoms to be reduced. Get what I'm saying?SSRI therapy HAS BEEN PROVEN to reduce activity at particular serotonin receptors, namely 5-HT2 and 5-HT3 receptors.
The action of SSRIs increases serotonin activity, yes, but their resulting anti-depressant, anti-anxiety, anti-OCDs effect come from changes in the brain that result from long-term therapy... not the increased serotonin itself.
Posted by McPac on August 30, 2003, at 2:37:08
In reply to Re: Remeron, posted by Caleb462 on August 28, 2003, at 15:24:29
Brother Caleb and ALL of you other dudes and dudettes that would love to take a crack at this.
sooo glad you mentioned this:
"Yes, but SSRIs increase serotonin in the brain in a matter of hours, whereas it takes up to 12 weeks
for OCD symptoms to be reduced. Get what I'm saying?">>>>>>>>>>> My brain is definitely not normal or average..perhaps it's not even human...but I have had, on more than one occassion, SEVERE depression and SEVERE ocd SIGNIFICANTLY improved in extremely short periods of time. I posted regarding this phenomenon some time back and did get a few responses from posters saying the same thing (not many but there were some, one VERY much like me). In one instance, incredibly severe dep/ocd (when I was much younger), that was DRAMATICALLY improved (almost completely wiped out) in a few short days upon beginning medication. SAME thing happened again years later. I have had times when I was very depressed (lousy, physical/biochemical depression, truly depressed, I'm not talking merely "blue" about something that happened, and I have felt noticeably (even markedly) better after one pill within mere hours! Of course I have to keep taking meds to sustain that or else the depressed feeling would immediately return again. (And NO, I'm NOT saying that 1 pill and I'm perfectly fine, I'm saying 1 pill and I can notice a REAL improvement (2,3 or 4 pills and there is DRAMATIC change)..not EVERY time does this happen but on many occassions this HAS happened) Anybody's reaction here is no doubt, "oh you weren't really depressed....that's not possible"....3 such instances occurred while I was being hospitalized!!! I WAS in TERRIBLE shape!! HOW in the heck did I get a REAL mood lift, a REAL change, from 1 pill? It's NOT placebo, it's REAL! Sometimes, after I get that incredible initial response, my mood will fall back to depressed again and then I will have to keep taking the pill for quite a long while until I feel well again.....I also recall times where I got a very good initial "pop" from a medicine (a VERY quick positive response for the first few days) that then faded and then had to wait quite a while for the med to once again resume working.....but I have gotten INCREDIBLY quick responses on many occassions from 1 single dose......I know it might defy logic or science but it's totally true...but, often times, this same fast reponse WON'T happen; for instance, other times I may take the same pill (when I'm feeling the same way as before) and I WON'T get that unbelievable response, in fact I won't get any response at all...so this incredible phenomenon happens often with me but it is NOT a given at all. I'd LOVE to hear an explanation....I think it's some kind of super-sensitivity kind of thing....I AM very med-sensitive...the way I see it (seriously) is that if my brain is SO sensitive to all of the negative effects of a med (side effects) and to stimuli in general then it should also be equally sensitive to the positive effects. I just see it as a super-sensitive brain (receptors?), which is why I often get such incredibly fast results from meds. I'd really, really like an explanation though as this has baffled me for years. One other possible explanation (theory) I have is that on the occassions when my dep/ocd has gotten VERY bad, perhaps the dep/ocd is triggered by terrible, dreadful anxiety (severe nervousness) and that the meds act quickly on my nerves, settling them down first..and because my nerves settle down, I then feel much, much better just as a result of THAT..and once my nerves settle down that the dep/ocd then begins to settle down...so perhaps it's that quick nerve-settling effect of the meds that is the reason why the dep/ocd symptoms diminish relatively shortly thereafter.......I actually think that theory, or a combo of the two I've mentioned, are close to the reason. But I'd REALLY, REALLY love to know how this is possible, as even my former doctors didn't know what to think and were totally baffled.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.