![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by HenryO on July 28, 2003, at 4:27:37
In reply to Trauma induced derealization, posted by natas4u on July 26, 2003, at 17:03:17
please define derealization
Posted by john Henry on July 28, 2003, at 5:09:08
In reply to please define derealization, posted by HenryO on July 28, 2003, at 4:27:37
I think everyone has their own definition of what derealization and isn't.What triggers things for some might not for others.Here has been my experience with derealization.
-It is a trance like state in which you feel and see the world but don't feel not connected to it.
Some people probably feel minor dr when doing such things as fasting,sleep deprevation,meditation,an lsd trip is almost exactly what it feels like to me etc.Or if you wear glasses and take them off the whole world is a blur.It is one of the biggest symptoms for me during a panic attack.Both dp/dr are basically disassociation with the "normal"world.Some psychiatrist believe they are just symptoms of panic and not a disorder of its own.Alot of people with dp/dr feel the symptoms and then start to believe the are going insane and must be schizophernic.To the person it for sure feels like psychosis but rarely that is the case.
To make matter worse,sufferers may feel symptoms 24/7.EXAMPLE-After a week of looking at your spouse or kids and not feeling like you recognize them and seeing them in a distorted way, it becomes very hard not to think you arent insane.Example-
Its like when you see scary movies and there is a fish eye lense on the person and everything in this person's world is racing,thoughts and images are going second to second,that is kinda like dp/dr.Sometimes I think it would be easier if a person were psychotic because they dont know they are.But to a person with dp/dr they are very aware and mindful of their condition.It is a horrible way to live.Basically a 24/7 panic attack!! Some things that bring it out in me are:
-fluorescent lighting
-The time of day when the sun sets
-staring
-crowds
It seems as though persons with dp/dr might be very sensitive to sensory overload,especially visual things.So if someone wanted to catch a small look into the life of a person with dp/dr,stay awake for over 50 hours,dont eat anything and be under constant fluorescent lighting....Im sure the world would seem odd to anyone who would try this experiment.
Take care
Posted by MB on July 28, 2003, at 11:47:49
In reply to please define derealization, posted by HenryO on July 28, 2003, at 4:27:37
Posted by SLS on July 28, 2003, at 13:07:03
In reply to Like standing behind yourself watching: detatched (nm), posted by MB on July 28, 2003, at 11:47:49
How would you differentiate between derealization and depersonalization?
Posted by john Henry on July 28, 2003, at 16:57:18
In reply to Re: Like standing behind yourself watching: detatched » MB, posted by SLS on July 28, 2003, at 13:07:03
Depersonalization is a feeling of detachment from yourself or looking at yourself as an outsider would.You may also feel separated from parts of your body or feel detached from your emotions,like a robot or an automation.Basically you,as a person doesnt seem real.You feel like you are watching yourself from the outside world.
It can be described as....-an out of body episode
-loss of feeling in parts of your body
-distorted perceptions of your body
-feeling of being invisible
-inability to recognize yourself in a mirror
-sense of detachment of your emotions
-impression of watching a movie of yourself
-feeling of being unreal or a robot
-sense of being split into an observer and a participant
Derealization is a feeling of detachment from your environment or a sense that the environment is unreal or foreign,often involving people who were previously familiar to you.Basically the outside world doesnt seem real,but you as a person feels real and can percieve the un realness-feeling of detachment from the world
-a feeling your home,workplace is unknown or unfamiliar
-a sense of what is happening is not real
-a sense that your friends and family are strange,unfamiliar or unreal
-changes in visual perceptions of the environment
-the sense buildings,furniture or other objects are changing in size or shapeDepersonalization=detachment from yourself
Derealization=detachment from the outside world
Posted by HenryO on July 29, 2003, at 2:41:25
In reply to please define derealization, posted by HenryO on July 28, 2003, at 4:27:37
I never heared of it before. Sounds kinda scarey but its interesting. Our brains is so facinating.
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 29, 2003, at 15:50:22
In reply to Trauma induced derealization, posted by natas4u on July 26, 2003, at 17:03:17
I must have missed the beginning of this. Are we talking about disassociating? Someone once mentioned a disassociative disorder to me. It isn't a complete blackout or shutdown, but a purely emotional shutdown. Life too painful? Turn off emotions.
Who is that man standing in front of me yelling in my face? Why, it's my husband. Do I care? No, though I wish I could adjust the volume lower. Now he's screaming that he hates when I get that *look* on my face. Hmm, interesting, didn't realize I had a "shut down" expression, mentally file that to analyze later. Hmmm, if he hits me, I'll probably have to leave.
That was my first experience with an emotional shutdown. Someone in a later post mentioned "detached" which brought back that memory. I divorced that husband. I flipped back and forth between caring and not caring for years. Shutting off whenever I felt threatened. Then I was permanently OFF. Strangely enough, it was the purchase of 2 pomeranian puppies that taught me how to feel and give unconditional love again. That and alot of therapy and self-awareness of my mind/heart's strange ways of defending itself.
If I'm off the subject, sorry for rambling. But thanks for letting me vent.
KDi in Texas> Ok people. I've gone through plenty of stuff on derealization and find it is a state of mind that may be triggered from several causes, from enviromental to inherent. I would like to find and talk to people how think they are trauma induced derealization, as i believe that different triggerings need different cures. I know I am derealized because some time I feel the intensity of reality. For what I sea people get derealized from their realized world. Myn case is the other way arround. Any one like this? My normal state is derealization and I am pretty much use to it, although now that i don't have to fear child abuse and I can go on i want to do so. I will do so. I have experienced that when evere derealiztion is lighter I tend to get panic atacks and ansiety. I am now trying to convince my body to go head on with the panic atacks and prove it that I don't need derealization any more. Does this make any sense to any body? I have some PTSS i guess. Any body like this? i think it is very important to keep a similar triggering effect between the ones that might talk so we don't get confused with other problems and solve ours more effectlively. Please, when you come in give a description of derealization and give a hint of why you may think you triggered it (waht triggered you to panic and therefor what triggered you to avoid panic with the mind fog. Hope som one answers....
Posted by MB on July 30, 2003, at 1:19:21
In reply to Re: Like standing behind yourself watching: detatched » MB, posted by SLS on July 28, 2003, at 13:07:03
> How would you differentiate between derealization and depersonalization?
I haven't really heard the word "derealization" used medically. The symptoms I described about being outside of myself, dissociated, feeling like everything is a dream...I was told that was "depersonalization". I just figured that "derealization" was a layperson's variation...synonymous. But then, what do I know anyway.
MB
Posted by MB on July 30, 2003, at 1:20:51
In reply to Re: Like standing behind yourself watching: detatched, posted by john Henry on July 28, 2003, at 16:57:18
Cool, thanks for the clarification. That makes perfect sense.
MB
Posted by DissTired on July 30, 2003, at 2:00:09
In reply to Re: please define derealization, posted by john Henry on July 28, 2003, at 5:09:08
Wow! I never heard anyine describe this so accurately. I have tried explaining it to my med providers, but even they seem confused by it.
I do have panic disorder, but its been mainly under control for several years. I still get this part of it though, I just try not to freak out and have not had a full-blown attack for a while.
My question to anyone who may know the answer is this. Why would lighting be such an issue? Malls, libraries (flour. lighting), and dusk are big triggers of derealization for me. I also sometimes get it at the restaurant where I am now working.
I used to dread sundown for this very reason.
> I think everyone has their own definition of what derealization and isn't.What triggers things for some might not for others.Here has been my experience with derealization.
>
> -It is a trance like state in which you feel and see the world but don't feel not connected to it.
> Some people probably feel minor dr when doing such things as fasting,sleep deprevation,meditation,an lsd trip is almost exactly what it feels like to me etc.Or if you wear glasses and take them off the whole world is a blur.It is one of the biggest symptoms for me during a panic attack.Both dp/dr are basically disassociation with the "normal"world.Some psychiatrist believe they are just symptoms of panic and not a disorder of its own.Alot of people with dp/dr feel the symptoms and then start to believe the are going insane and must be schizophernic.To the person it for sure feels like psychosis but rarely that is the case.
> To make matter worse,sufferers may feel symptoms 24/7.EXAMPLE-After a week of looking at your spouse or kids and not feeling like you recognize them and seeing them in a distorted way, it becomes very hard not to think you arent insane.Example-
> Its like when you see scary movies and there is a fish eye lense on the person and everything in this person's world is racing,thoughts and images are going second to second,that is kinda like dp/dr.Sometimes I think it would be easier if a person were psychotic because they dont know they are.But to a person with dp/dr they are very aware and mindful of their condition.It is a horrible way to live.Basically a 24/7 panic attack!! Some things that bring it out in me are:
> -fluorescent lighting
> -The time of day when the sun sets
> -staring
> -crowds
> It seems as though persons with dp/dr might be very sensitive to sensory overload,especially visual things.So if someone wanted to catch a small look into the life of a person with dp/dr,stay awake for over 50 hours,dont eat anything and be under constant fluorescent lighting....Im sure the world would seem odd to anyone who would try this experiment.
> Take care
Posted by SLS on July 30, 2003, at 6:17:31
In reply to Re: Like standing behind yourself watching: detatched, posted by john Henry on July 28, 2003, at 16:57:18
This is the best, most vivid, explanation I have ever seen. Thanks!
- Scott
> Depersonalization is a feeling of detachment from yourself or looking at yourself as an outsider would.You may also feel separated from parts of your body or feel detached from your emotions,like a robot or an automation.Basically you,as a person doesnt seem real.You feel like you are watching yourself from the outside world.
> It can be described as....
>
> -an out of body episode
> -loss of feeling in parts of your body
> -distorted perceptions of your body
> -feeling of being invisible
> -inability to recognize yourself in a mirror
> -sense of detachment of your emotions
> -impression of watching a movie of yourself
> -feeling of being unreal or a robot
> -sense of being split into an observer and a participant
>
>
>
>
> Derealization is a feeling of detachment from your environment or a sense that the environment is unreal or foreign,often involving people who were previously familiar to you.Basically the outside world doesnt seem real,but you as a person feels real and can percieve the un realness
>
> -feeling of detachment from the world
> -a feeling your home,workplace is unknown or unfamiliar
> -a sense of what is happening is not real
> -a sense that your friends and family are strange,unfamiliar or unreal
> -changes in visual perceptions of the environment
> -the sense buildings,furniture or other objects are changing in size or shape
>
> Depersonalization=detachment from yourself
> Derealization=detachment from the outside world
Posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:53:16
In reply to Re: Like standing behind yourself watching: THANKS » john Henry, posted by SLS on July 30, 2003, at 6:17:31
http://depersonalization.co.uk
or its
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 30, 2003, at 9:11:04
In reply to Re: Like standing behind yourself watching: detatched, posted by john Henry on July 28, 2003, at 16:57:18
Posted by MB on July 30, 2003, at 13:31:48
In reply to Re: please define derealization, posted by DissTired on July 30, 2003, at 2:00:09
> My question to anyone who may know the answer is this. Why would lighting be such an issue? Malls, libraries (flour. lighting), and dusk are big triggers of derealization for me. I also sometimes get it at the restaurant where I am now working.I don't know, but my first experience with "derealization" (I guess not "depersonalization", if I now understand the difference) was in seventh grade, and I think it was triggered by the fluorescent lighting. I had PTSD from being teased and hit for so many years in elementery school, and I think the fear and the *lighting* brought this on...I couldn't deal with being in school, so I turned it into a dream.
Also, have you ever noticed that when you dream (at least for me) about familiar places, sometimes they are identical to the waking version of the place except for one thing: the lighting. Sometimes in dreams, the shadows are weird, or the angles aren't square in a room...it's almost a perfect mental facimile of the real world, but there are a few glitches.
Well, when a lightbulb in the house burns out, and the familiar shadow pattern of the living foom is altered, sometimes it will toss me into an almost panicky feeling of derealization. I think because it is so dreamlike to have those small details (that are usually constant) thrown out of whack.
MB
Posted by john Henry on July 31, 2003, at 6:05:33
In reply to Re: please define derealization » DissTired, posted by MB on July 30, 2003, at 13:31:48
Posted by DissTired on July 31, 2003, at 14:26:19
In reply to Re: please define derealization » DissTired, posted by MB on July 30, 2003, at 13:31:48
>
> > My question to anyone who may know the answer is this. Why would lighting be such an issue? Malls, libraries (flour. lighting), and dusk are big triggers of derealization for me. I also sometimes get it at the restaurant where I am now working.
>
> I don't know, but my first experience with "derealization" (I guess not "depersonalization", if I now understand the difference) was in seventh grade, and I think it was triggered by the fluorescent lighting. I had PTSD from being teased and hit for so many years in elementery school, and I think the fear and the *lighting* brought this on...I couldn't deal with being in school, so I turned it into a dream.
>
> Also, have you ever noticed that when you dream (at least for me) about familiar places, sometimes they are identical to the waking version of the place except for one thing: the lighting. Sometimes in dreams, the shadows are weird, or the angles aren't square in a room...it's almost a perfect mental facimile of the real world, but there are a few glitches.
>
> Well, when a lightbulb in the house burns out, and the familiar shadow pattern of the living foom is altered, sometimes it will toss me into an almost panicky feeling of derealization. I think because it is so dreamlike to have those small details (that are usually constant) thrown out of whack.
>
> MB
I dream in weird colors, but have not noticed this particular phenom. House lighting can be an issue for me too.As I was thinking about derealization and lighting, I realized my first panic attack was linked to it--at work at age 15 in a grocery store. There was other stuff going on, but I already felt a sense of derealization and then wham, panic attack.
I also think that different ADs may deal better with senses of derealization. When taking desipramine, it was totally gone (unfortunately, the rest of the depression was not). When taking parnate derealization and depression were gone. Unfortunately, parnate pooped out. However, effexor does not seem to do anything for derealization, though it keeps other panic attack symptoms at bay. I wonder what little pathways are involved here. The brain is so fascinating. I wish I had had a chance to learn about this stuff soley as an intellectual exercise, and not because I felt bad.
Posted by MissAmy on July 31, 2003, at 15:26:04
In reply to Re: please define derealization, posted by DissTired on July 31, 2003, at 14:26:19
interesting you guys...i was just talking to my mom about this the other day. She is a counselor and was talking about different personality types (the Meyers-Briggs test that tells you what personality type you are). I was telling her that ever since I was little I have felt like I was being filmed--or like I was watching everything that I do/did like it was through a lens instead of taking an active part in my decision making. She told me that most people of my personality type (ENFP) experience this and that it is perfectly normal. I had explained that when I was in high school nothing seemed REAL...it was all just this hazy mess (and this is BEFORE I started smoking pot!! haha!) I remember telling my therapist the same thing--i used to complain about it weekly--and she said, "Have you ever thought that even though it does NOT seem real, it IS? And that this IS your reality so deal with it--accept it?" This might sound kind of harsh, but it really spoke to me. I have a panic disorder that is triggered by sounds, smells, lighting--I get over stimulated very easily and have to remind myself I am not in danger even though it feels like my head is going to explode. I did CBT for a few months and it helped GREATLY. After a few years passed the doctor's decided my panic was triggered by depression brought on by emotional trauma at a young age. Even though the panic was at bay I was still feeling really blah, so I went on Serzone. I have been on it a 2 1/2 years and i am now weaning off. i have found that I no longer experience the same detachment from things (at least not as often). When I do and I get scared I force myself to pay VERY close attention to what's going on instead of hiding from the lights, sound, smells. It seems to help. i am going off the meds because after awhile it seemed to make my "feelings of unreality" worsen. Any time I SHOULD feel uncomfortable, the meds kind of helped me float away to a "happy place" where i could detach further, and I decided that was not right for me anymore. i am 30 years old and there are a couple things I would still like to deal with--i figure if nasty symptoms come back, the drugs are always there if need be. Anyway...interesting post--I have enjoyed reading it. i also posted a message about my serzone withdrawa symptoms a couple of days ago if anyone has any suggestions. Thank you and God Bless!!!
Posted by jemma on August 1, 2003, at 16:18:31
In reply to Re: please define derealization, posted by MissAmy on July 31, 2003, at 15:26:04
This interests me. Pretty much my only break from 24/7 mild derealization was when I was taking serzone for a few weeks. Unfortunately, it knocked me out - I was falling asleep at my desk - so I had to stop it. But I've since read that serzone has a quite unique ability to block the 5HT2a receptor that may be implicated in derealization. Trazadone also does this, and to a lesser degree, remeron.
Does anyone know of any 5HT2a blockers that don't cause sleepiness? Thanks.
- Jemma
> interesting you guys...i was just talking to my mom about this the other day. She is a counselor and was talking about different personality types (the Meyers-Briggs test that tells you what personality type you are). I was telling her that ever since I was little I have felt like I was being filmed--or like I was watching everything that I do/did like it was through a lens instead of taking an active part in my decision making. She told me that most people of my personality type (ENFP) experience this and that it is perfectly normal. I had explained that when I was in high school nothing seemed REAL...it was all just this hazy mess (and this is BEFORE I started smoking pot!! haha!) I remember telling my therapist the same thing--i used to complain about it weekly--and she said, "Have you ever thought that even though it does NOT seem real, it IS? And that this IS your reality so deal with it--accept it?" This might sound kind of harsh, but it really spoke to me. I have a panic disorder that is triggered by sounds, smells, lighting--I get over stimulated very easily and have to remind myself I am not in danger even though it feels like my head is going to explode. I did CBT for a few months and it helped GREATLY. After a few years passed the doctor's decided my panic was triggered by depression brought on by emotional trauma at a young age. Even though the panic was at bay I was still feeling really blah, so I went on Serzone. I have been on it a 2 1/2 years and i am now weaning off. i have found that I no longer experience the same detachment from things (at least not as often). When I do and I get scared I force myself to pay VERY close attention to what's going on instead of hiding from the lights, sound, smells. It seems to help. i am going off the meds because after awhile it seemed to make my "feelings of unreality" worsen. Any time I SHOULD feel uncomfortable, the meds kind of helped me float away to a "happy place" where i could detach further, and I decided that was not right for me anymore. i am 30 years old and there are a couple things I would still like to deal with--i figure if nasty symptoms come back, the drugs are always there if need be. Anyway...interesting post--I have enjoyed reading it. i also posted a message about my serzone withdrawa symptoms a couple of days ago if anyone has any suggestions. Thank you and God Bless!!!
Posted by zeugma on August 1, 2003, at 19:44:49
In reply to Re: please define derealization, posted by jemma on August 1, 2003, at 16:18:31
Jemma,
As far as I know, blocking 5HT-2a receptors CAUSES sleepiness, as evidenced by the drugs that have the highest degrees of 5HT-2a antagonism: trazodone, amitriptyline, and of course newer neuroleptics like Zyprexa and Seroquel. 5HT-2a antagonism is not only supposed to cause sleepiness, it is said to improve sleep quality as well (which is actually more important). I attribute a lot of the improvement in my ability to get restful sleep to the fact that nortriptyline also blocks this receptor.
Posted by john Henry on August 1, 2003, at 21:50:44
In reply to Re: 5H-T 2A blockers and sleepiness » jemma, posted by zeugma on August 1, 2003, at 19:44:49
Actually most of the heavy sedation from these drugs comes from their blockade of the histamine-1 receptor.But yeah 5ht2a does cause sleep improvement.Sedation or sleepiness is mostly caused by:
1-blockade of histamine-1
2-blockade of 5ht2a
3-blockade of Alpha-1 NE receptorRemeron,Elavil,Seroquel,Zyprexa etc. are all VERY sedating because of their most potent site is the Histamine receptor.
The difference between Serzone and Trazodone,which is it's parent drug,is Serzone doesnt have the effect on the Histamine-1 receptor.It is not nearly as sedating.But like Trazodone,it has to be taken 2-3x day which can make some sleepy throuout the day.It is also known for having much dizziness.If you want something that blocks 5ht2a....Remeron and Zyprexa are 2 drugs that have a most potent effect on 5ht2a.Your best bet would be to try Remeron.
Remeron:
-Only taken once at bedtime
-dosent have the side effects of the TCA's
-In vitro studies show it's a little better at getting the 5ht2a than serzone.
-It is very sedating but,you can get used to it in time with little to no drowsiness the next day.
-Has less drug interactions
Here is the difference:
Serzone:
-blocks 5ht2a
-blocks Alpha-1 NE
-weak 5ht uptake inhibitionRemeron:
-Blocks-histamine-1
-blocks-5ht2a
-blocks-5ht2c
-blocks-5ht3
-blocks-Alpha-2 NEThe only major difference is Serzone has Serotonin inhibition.It is very weak though because even at 300 mgs of serzone,it doesnt appear to even have the effects of an SSRI at its lowest dose.
The TCA's seem to have to many sides to try first. Take care
Posted by natas4u on August 19, 2003, at 12:18:32
In reply to Link to help people understand more..., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:53:16
Hello;
I am so sorry for not having followed up the thread I started!!!! I was expecting a notice in my e-mail but I guess I did something wrong! I will reply when I have som more time as out of my own expereince I think I am getting some where. Sorry again.
Posted by natas4u on August 21, 2003, at 6:48:23
In reply to Re: Link to help people understand more..., posted by natas4u on August 19, 2003, at 12:18:32
Going for the behavioural (and permanent) solution
Being in country in which these types of affections are not profoundly studied we have to be careful with what pills we get. I have decided I will be better of not taking pills. Last time I explained to a Psykiatrist about derealization he gave me Reneuron, one of its counter effects is anxiety. So I'm not taking the risk of making the derealization more powerful. I am following psychological therapy based on the following fact: we interpret the facts around us, and according to it, we can have certain feelings that will develop in to certain conducts. So by changing the conduct I am working on my interpretations of reality in order to change my feelings of it. As an example if a person with high anxiety hears a noise in his house when he or she is alone, the interpretation of that will most probably be that; “there is some body inside the house and therefore have fear and act accordingly”. The solution is beginning to learn to change the interpretations and in this case it would be the following one. I've heard a noise but I will make a conscious effort to relate it to the wind, and even though I might feel fear I will stay right where I am doing what I was doing as if there was no problem. By following this mechanism, the body will eventually realise that nothing is going to happen and will accept the wind theory with out getting scared and therefore reducing the fight or fleet reaction, anxiety. If flee or hide your body will think it is escaping. Being a conscious being, the reality in your mind is the absolute reality. Derealization or depersonalization I think is a reaction to extreme and prolonged anxiety or panic. Something is hurting the mind (and body) so much that turns the intensity of reality down, in order to be able to react with out just standing there in panic. In other words, if you find a lion in the jungle and you get a panic attack and freeze it will eat you, whilst if you don’t get one, thanks to derealization or numbing, you can overcome the fear and escape. I think the body derealizes by numbing the emotions, more or less depending on the severity, not just fear but also all of them. We are used to relating the emotions exclusively to the relations between people, and therefore we would expect to be simply cold or distant with people (all tough people don’t normally notice derealized persons), but, for what I know, our emotions help us deal with al the objects in the world. Just like a zebra might feel happy when she seas grass we feel certain pleasure from looking at a nice flower. This means the derealization is the numbing of the world by reducing the emotions we receive from it, as some where inside our minds we still fear that the world will hurt us. Hence that flower might not be emotional enough to get our attention or to just get it on a racionalized way. One way I put it to people to make them understand is I tell them this: Imagine that you wake up tomorrow and all your life has been a dream. It would probably be a big shock to you, but to me, although I would not make me happy, it would not be a big surprise. The other way I make them understand is by asking them if they have ever been in a situation when they suddenly switched off and nothing really affected them (like some body shouting at them and them not feeling nothing because they disconnected). Then I tell them to imagine that 24/7. That's how my girl friend understood.
The behavioural solution: What I am trying to do is demonstrate that the part that is still in panic, some where behind the derealization, that it should no longer be in fear. To do that first I have to get through the derealization and I'm finding out how to do it. I have not mentioned but I think I have been derealized, or emotionally numbed, since I can remember (child abuse), derealization in me is 24/7. Anyhow, by paying close attention to my behaviour I have realized that I am in a constant escape. Basically what I am doing is stop escaping to tell my body that nothing is going to happen any more (similar to the guy convincing him self that the noise in the house is due to wind). Some of the things I did and have now identified is that I always seem to have some sort of activity to do, also do very high speeds with vehicles constantly (200 km/h travelling was normal), fearless street fighting, finding it really hard to sustain a proper relation due to my continuated activity, taking huge amounts of caffeine, never resting, etc. By cutting down on the speed I lived with I began to realize that I was escaping from those moments that depress me, those moments in which I am not doing anything or in which I do not have a goal in which I can concentrate (literally almost never). In other words have a present or live the moment. It was such an immediate reaction to avoid doing nothing that I did not even know I was escaping from them until I forced my self to stop from escaping. My theory is that basically when your body is asking you to escape and you don’t do it, there is some primitive part that thinks that the Lion is catching up. I have found that there are two stages to the slowing down. First there is this depression that comes along with the thought of being still or “taking it easy” Basically it’s your body knowing that it can’t do anything about a situation. Once you realize that that is the direction in which you have to go and do it, that is take it easy even though you might feel depressed, fear starts coming your way. I like to say… the beast is getting close. When I reach this point I realize that the intensity of reality is much stronger. It is by learning to feel fear again that you can access all the other emotions that are numbed, after all it is because of fear that they where numbed. This is the hard part and where you need to be as lucid as you have ever been. You are afraid of something that is coming your way, (most of us sea it is the reality of death it self, the absurdity of life, and we sea it as the ultimate though because it is the only thing we are feeling at the time, not because it is the ultimate reality, it is our only worry, literally) You have to get a hold of your self and carry on feeling afraid, think that being afraid is good because it is the way out of being AFRAID. Eventually you will stop being afraid when you are not supposed to. It is not a bad feeling that you want to escape; it is your objective, because through it you can find the other feelings that are numbed. Once you reach this point you will probably think if it is worth it, NEVER SURRENDER!!!!! Being afraid can save your life (like preventing you from having a car accident from going to fast or not paying attention when you cross a red light)
The more times you go through this process the more your mind will realize that there is no longer a need to be scared. I don’t know about other people but I am know beginning to consider myself a little more, be a little more selfish and less just. Have my feelings into account. There are so many things, I can think more clearly and efficiently, I am beginning to be able to rest once in a while. I am learning to think a bout the future with out being depressed by it. I have discovered I can write poetry. There are so many good things waiting for us out there that it is so much worth the struggle against fear.
Any way that is what I think about it in a concentrated way. I will be happy to talk to any one of this on my e-mail (natas4u2001@yahoo.com) or on the thread.May the fear live with you!!!!!
Posted by SilkyWilks on February 26, 2009, at 12:42:23
In reply to Re: please define derealization, posted by DissTired on July 30, 2003, at 2:00:09
> Wow! I never heard anyine describe this so accurately. I have tried explaining it to my med providers, but even they seem confused by it.
>
> I do have panic disorder, but its been mainly under control for several years. I still get this part of it though, I just try not to freak out and have not had a full-blown attack for a while.
>
> My question to anyone who may know the answer is this. Why would lighting be such an issue? Malls, libraries (flour. lighting), and dusk are big triggers of derealization for me. I also sometimes get it at the restaurant where I am now working.
>
> I used to dread sundown for this very reason.
>
>
>
> > I think everyone has their own definition of what derealization and isn't.What triggers things for some might not for others.Here has been my experience with derealization.
> >
> > -It is a trance like state in which you feel and see the world but don't feel not connected to it.
> > Some people probably feel minor dr when doing such things as fasting,sleep deprevation,meditation,an lsd trip is almost exactly what it feels like to me etc.Or if you wear glasses and take them off the whole world is a blur.It is one of the biggest symptoms for me during a panic attack.Both dp/dr are basically disassociation with the "normal"world.Some psychiatrist believe they are just symptoms of panic and not a disorder of its own.Alot of people with dp/dr feel the symptoms and then start to believe the are going insane and must be schizophernic.To the person it for sure feels like psychosis but rarely that is the case.
> > To make matter worse,sufferers may feel symptoms 24/7.EXAMPLE-After a week of looking at your spouse or kids and not feeling like you recognize them and seeing them in a distorted way, it becomes very hard not to think you arent insane.Example-
> > Its like when you see scary movies and there is a fish eye lense on the person and everything in this person's world is racing,thoughts and images are going second to second,that is kinda like dp/dr.Sometimes I think it would be easier if a person were psychotic because they dont know they are.But to a person with dp/dr they are very aware and mindful of their condition.It is a horrible way to live.Basically a 24/7 panic attack!! Some things that bring it out in me are:
> > -fluorescent lighting
> > -The time of day when the sun sets
> > -staring
> > -crowds
> > It seems as though persons with dp/dr might be very sensitive to sensory overload,especially visual things.So if someone wanted to catch a small look into the life of a person with dp/dr,stay awake for over 50 hours,dont eat anything and be under constant fluorescent lighting....Im sure the world would seem odd to anyone who would try this experiment.
> > Take care
Hi there!
I'm so happy to have found this post because it describes what I feel in a way that I have never been able to describe it! I am really suffering with my derealization at the moment. My symptoms come at dusk/night, under bright artificial lighting, in shopping centres/restaurants/clubs, in crowds, where there is lots of noise, or when I am having a face-to-face conversation with someone. And I don't know what to do about it! In these situations, I start to feel disconnected from the surroundings and extremely overwhelmed by all the sights and sounds around me. I struggle to have a face-to-face conversation with people during these times because things seem hazy and distorted. And I feel like I might lose control or faint any second. Is this how you feel to? I would love to hear from you as I really need to chat to someone who is experiencing the same things as I am
Thanks so much
Posted by SilkyWilks on February 26, 2009, at 12:45:21
In reply to Re: please define derealization, posted by john Henry on July 28, 2003, at 5:09:08
Hi there!
I'm so happy to have found this post because it describes what I feel in a way that I have never been able to describe it! I am really suffering with my derealization at the moment. My symptoms come at dusk/night, under bright artificial lighting, in shopping centres/restaurants/clubs, in crowds, where there is lots of noise, or when I am having a face-to-face conversation with someone. And I don't know what to do about it! In these situations, I start to feel disconnected from the surroundings and extremely overwhelmed by all the sights and sounds around me. I struggle to have a face-to-face conversation with people during these times because things seem hazy and distorted. And I feel like I might lose control or faint any second. Is this how you feel to? I would love to hear from you as I really need to chat to someone who is experiencing the same things as I am
Thanks so much
Posted by dcruik518 on February 26, 2009, at 14:27:16
In reply to Re: please define derealization, posted by SilkyWilks on February 26, 2009, at 12:45:21
Hi SilkyWilks,
Derealization is closely connected to depersonalization. Check out the descriptions of these dissociated states on Wikipedia.
I've only suffered from derealization and depersonalization a couple of times. The worst one was triggered by a marathon bout of kundalini yoga which totally freaked me out. Felt like I was trapped in a bad dream and would never wake up. Nothing seems quite right or real.
I recently saw a good movie about a guy who suffers from depersonalization and how he learns to live with it. I'd highly recommend it. It's called NUMB and stars Matthew Perry. Here's a link to the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa60FdWbdYY
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.