Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 246712

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Would like everyone's opinion....

Posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42

There was a time when most of us didn't need medication(like childhood or even 0-10 years ago) then all of a sudden-BANG-we are slaves to the pills.What do you think caused this:
1-Chemical Imbalance with brain chemistry

2-Life stessors such as getting too old,hating your job,problem w/your marriage,death's in the family etc.

I am just curious what everyone thinks happened to them.....Not what the Doctors that see you for 5 min,write a prescription,then drive home in their porsche.What is the root of your illness?
-Something wrong with your brain or

-things that have happened over your lifetime?

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....

Posted by SLS on July 30, 2003, at 7:02:57

In reply to Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42


BIOLOGY OR PSYCHOLOGY?


The best answer to this question may be “either and both”.

Many of us here have been diagnosed as having a mental illness.
Mental illnesses are not mental weaknesses. The diagnoses that we
are most familiar with include:

1. Major Depression (Unipolar Depression)
2. Bipolar Disorder (Manic Depression)
3. Dysthymia (Minor Depression)
4. Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)
5. Schizophrenia
6. Schizoaffective Disorder
7. Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD)
8. Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
9. Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD)
10. Panic Disorder


All of these disorders have one thing in common. They are not our
fault. Each disorder has both biological and psychological
components. We all begin our lives with a brain that is built
using the blueprints contained within the genes we inherit from
our parents. Later, hormones change the brain to prepare it for
adulthood. It is continually being changed by the things we
experience. The brain determines the mind as the mind sculpts the
brain. Unfortunately, the brain can also be changed in negative
ways by things such as drugs, alcohol, injury, and chronic
stress.

How we think and feel are influenced by our environment. Probably
the most important environment during our development is that of
the family, with the most important time being our childhood. We
all have both positive and negative experiences as we travel
through life. How we are as adults is in large part determined by
these positive and negative experiences. They affect our
psychology, our emotions, and our behaviors. All of us can be
hurt by unhealthy negative experiences.

Some of us are also hurt by unhealthy brains. Medical science has
long recognized that many mental illnesses are actually
biological disorders. Even Sigmund Freud, who we know for his
development of psychoanalysis, proposed a role for biology in
mental illness. He was, after all, a neurologist. The first solid
evidence for this concept in modern times came with the discovery
of lithium in 1947. Lithium was found to cause the symptoms of
bipolar disorder (manic-depression) to disappear completely,
allowing previously disabled people to lead normal lives. Lithium
helps to correct for the abnormal neurotransmission in the brain
that is the cause of bipolar disorder. Subsequent medical
discoveries included the observations that the drug, Thorazine
(an antipsychotic), successfully treated schizophrenia, and that
Tofranil (an antidepressant) successfully treated depression.
Again, these drugs help to correct for the abnormal biology of
the brain that accompanies these disorders.

What about psychology? What role does it play in mental illness?
This can be a
two-way street. The abnormal biology that occurs with some
mental illnesses affects our psychology – how we think, feel, and
behave. On the other hand, our psychology can also affect our
biology. As we now know, the emotional stresses and traumas we
experience change the way our brains operate. This is especially
true of things we experience during childhood. These stresses can
trigger the induction of abnormal brain function that leads to
major depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and other
major mental illnesses. In order for this to happen, however,
there must be a genetic or some other biological vulnerability to
begin with.

Unfortunately, there are still too many people who cannot bring
themselves to believe that the most common mental illnesses are
actually brain disorders. However, the vast majority of our top
researchers in psychiatry and neuroscience do.

The National Institutes of Health, the federal government’s
official repository of medical research, has made available to
the public free publications describing the current research into
psychiatric disorders. They include descriptions of the
biological and psychological aspects of major mental illness.
Each press release and research publication begins by stating
emphatically that these are indeed brain disorders.

NIMH Public Inquiries
6001 Executive Boulevard, Rm. 8184, MSC 9663
Bethesda, MD 20892-9663 U.S.A.
Voice (301) 443-4513; Fax (301) 443-4279
TTY (301) 443-8431

It is important to remember that not all psychological and
emotional difficulties are biological in origin. Again, we are
all products of our environments – family, friends, enemies,
school, work, culture, climate, love, war, etc. Environments that
are unhealthy often produce unhealthy people. However, this, too,
is not our fault.

In conclusion, regardless of the cause of our mental illnesses,
it is important that we treat both the biological and the
psychological. We will all benefit most if we do.

- Scott

 

hey 20 days of nardil:)))

Posted by ross co on July 30, 2003, at 7:14:18

In reply to Re: Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by SLS on July 30, 2003, at 7:02:57

20th day and im not coming off. i made it 60 days once but the side effects are not that bad anymore. they will diminish with time and id like to get 6 months in and write review of NARDIL. i cant wait for Pregabalin to come out. it keeps getting more and more better press. its 3 to 7 times more powerful then neurontin and does not cause weight gain. it will be the ultimate mood stab.......
everyone have a good day....
ross

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....

Posted by irishcatholic on July 30, 2003, at 8:15:02

In reply to Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42

Man great question.
I was good up to age 50, got big promotion and much higher stress job (4 yrs ago). Started with insomnia, then anxiety, then depression.
Plenty of similar problems in my gene pool (just attended family reunion & compared notes).
Still working on the answer but I find this board to be a wonderful place with knowledgeable insights that just don't appear anywhere else.

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....

Posted by Bill L on July 30, 2003, at 8:58:17

In reply to Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42

Good questions! I disagree with your first statement that the need for pills is new. The need has probably been around forever. But there are now 2 things that have changed:
1) better pills for depression
2) less of a stigma to seek treatment

Clinical depression is not new. Most people would not admit to having it due to the stigma. But some did such as Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill.

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion.... » john Henry

Posted by KimberlyDi on July 30, 2003, at 10:15:53

In reply to Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42

The problems I have now, I can see that I had early signs of brain chemical imbalances and disorders. In my early childhood, I had a strong sense of being separate from my body. My body wasn't me. "Me" was something smaller that inhabited my body and that my whole life was an experiment by God (like putting a mouse in a maze) to see how I would react to things. Rather strange thoughts for a little girl. Upon reading different threads in Psycho-Babble I've discovered that there is a name for that, falling under De-Personalization or Disassociation. I also realize I might have been an undiagnosed ADHD child with social phobia also. Only things that I believe affected me by growing up was:
1) reaching age 21 (legal drinking age and I was an alcoholic-waiting-to-happen); and
2) having my anti-depressant needs change from depression in my younger years to Anti-Anxiety when I was promoted to a high-stress job;
3) reaching dating age and being introduced to the opposite sex as a potential partner & opening that big-old can of worms. abuse, rejection, broken heart, being disillusioned.

My dime's worth (inflation)
KDi in Texas

> There was a time when most of us didn't need medication(like childhood or even 0-10 years ago) then all of a sudden-BANG-we are slaves to the pills.What do you think caused this:
> 1-Chemical Imbalance with brain chemistry
>
> 2-Life stessors such as getting too old,hating your job,problem w/your marriage,death's in the family etc.
>
> I am just curious what everyone thinks happened to them.....Not what the Doctors that see you for 5 min,write a prescription,then drive home in their porsche.What is the root of your illness?
> -Something wrong with your brain or
>
> -things that have happened over your lifetime?
>

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....

Posted by TJO on July 30, 2003, at 11:26:52

In reply to Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42

> There was a time when most of us didn't need medication(like childhood or even 0-10 years ago) then all of a sudden-BANG-we are slaves to the pills.What do you think caused this:
> 1-Chemical Imbalance with brain chemistry
>
> 2-Life stessors such as getting too old,hating your job,problem w/your marriage,death's in the family etc.
>
> I am just curious what everyone thinks happened to them.....Not what the Doctors that see you for 5 min,write a prescription,then drive home in their porsche.What is the root of your illness?
> -Something wrong with your brain or
>
> -things that have happened over your lifetime?
>

Hi,
I think it is a genetic susceptibility that will cause mental illness to occur if you are under too much stress in your lifetime. Then you need meds to help the imbalance of brain chemicals get back to normal.

Tammy

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....

Posted by Sebastian on July 30, 2003, at 11:36:33

In reply to Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42

I thinks it was stress. First after the accident and my friend in the hospital who has died now. It was slow to set in, and slowly lifting. I also think I have developed a slight dependance from being on the meds so long.

Sebastian

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....

Posted by MissAmy on July 30, 2003, at 12:39:31

In reply to Re: Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by Sebastian on July 30, 2003, at 11:36:33

I believe that we are not biologically cut out for our fast-paced technological whirlwind of a world. I have a hunch that if I lived in a hunter-gatherer society where all the women were raising the children together and our wants were simplified it might be a more peaceful pastoral existence. I think lack of family/friends and the pressure to be "successful" drives us all mad. I think mental illness would still exist but maybe it would not be as common? That's just must humble opinion. :)

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....

Posted by kinsey on July 30, 2003, at 14:06:06

In reply to Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42

I started with depression in my teen years and then anxiety and panic attacks in my 20's. In the 70's and 80's there were not too many drugs available (valium or lithium), and so i suffered unnessarily. i remember my mom (who by the way is now on Zoloft) talking about her aunt who acted strangely and never left the house or a neighbor who went through "the change" and went kind of crazy. so it has been going on for a long long time. I just say thank God for the medication we have today and the knowledge of mental illness that is now available. Just my humble opinion - kinsey

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....

Posted by zalle on July 30, 2003, at 21:39:38

In reply to Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42

i personally believe its the way our society has changed. i think maybe Aldous Huxley prediction of our future in his book "Brave New World" may not be far off the truth. Consider Huxley's SOMA to be all the chemicals and drugs people use today (alcohol, nicotine, pot, anti-depressants, emphitemenes, ectasy,etc etc) and it seems that his prediction of a chemically/ drug dependent society is accurate.
I saw a documentary on australian tv that said 30% of our population is dependent on some form of chemical drug. I believe this large figure is due to several different societal changes. The first being that there seems to be this constant demand to escape what we believe is a "mundane life". whether this has always been apparent i'm not sure but i know for certain that "depression " has got a lot of negative stigma to it that never used to exist in the past. For example ....30 - 40 years ago (i'm not sure on exact dates) people with mental illness and depression sufferers were believed by society to be gifted. This was the correlation that was evident between the "mentally ill" and apparent increased artistic abiity. Yet now even the word depressed has such negative conotations. It seems the use of the word melancholy is not used much anymore. Melancholy describes the feeling of depression but it does not imply that this feeling is negative or undesirable. Somehow our society has been convinced of needing to live a constantly happy, joyous existance and if we are ever to feel anything seperate to that then we therefore labelled as "mentally ill".To be happy and joyfull at all times is unattainable......anyone knows that......but yet we still believe the propaganda that is telling us....that we need this and that medication because unhappiness and depression is abnormal. Since when is depression an illness??....it mightn't be the most desirable or pleasant experience ( i won't deny that it can be quite debilatating) but who is it to say that it is abnormal? As an example of this all you need to do is read this site...there was someone saying that they needed to take anti-depressents for shyness. Since when has shyness been a mental disablity? Are we forgetting that diversity is a positive aspect of living? Not everyone is out spoken and "out going" but somehow now the drug companies are telling us that this is the "normal" way to be. I remember when i was young that shyness was not considered a negative trait at all. I saw an extremely disturbing documentary about a huge pharmaceutical company in america that was specifically targeting children by using marketing methods that say shyness and sadness can be cured. Many parents wouldn't allow their children to drink alcohol or smoke pot...so how is it that they can approve that their children take powerful mind altering drugs like anti-depressents. Shyness is a common trait and it is not to be confused with low self esteem. The assumption cannot be made that because someone is shy that therefore they automatically have low self esteem. Although i don't believe that shyness in itself is an abnormality i do think that low self esteem is a serious issue and needs to be treated. However to tell people that low esteem is caused by a "chemical inbalance" or even inherited genetically is (i believe) a blatant lie.
It seems that using reasons like this just give the drug companies more justification and reason for people to take their drugs. What about societal factors that cause depression?? the constant image of what is beautiful that is unattainable to most of us......surely that must be a factor in self esteem issues?......what about our upbringing ...our teachers ..our schools.....if your not pretty, academic or sporty you have no worth (I found through my exxperience)..surely that is a factor to being depressed and feeling low self esteem??
it is not our "brain chemistry" that needs to be changed it is that we need to change this society.
It is too easy to ignore the real causes of depression by blaming it on factors that are really out of our control. We can't control our brain chemistry ...we can't control our genetics (well,,that is changing) so we end up taking the drugs and forgetting about the real issues. it causes silence and suppresion.....Can you imagine if all drugs were taken away .......society would become restless because they would have nothing to 'escape' and then surely people would start to fight to live in a better society. Governments don't want that so of course they endorse the use of anti-depressants.
Are we heading towards a world like Huxleys "Brave New World" ...where everyone takes SOMA to deal with every challenging human emotion that exists...
Maybe ...just maybe depression is necessary ...how can we progress without experience ...without challenges?

 

Re: double double quotes » zalle

Posted by Dr. Bob on July 31, 2003, at 0:11:22

In reply to Re: Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by zalle on July 30, 2003, at 21:39:38

> i think maybe Aldous Huxley prediction of our future in his book "Brave New World" may not be far off the truth.

I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon

The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html

Thanks!

Bob

 

Just a pill and a dream... » zalle

Posted by avid abulia on July 31, 2003, at 0:24:23

In reply to Re: Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by zalle on July 30, 2003, at 21:39:38

I gotta agree with you there, zalle... i've been told that I'm emotionally labile, rely on a few close friends, and have self-aggressive tendencies because I've got Geschwinn's syndrome cuz I got hit upside the head real hard (don't even know if I spelled that "Geschwinn" right, though) ... but part of "Geschwinn's syndrome" is deepened cognitive responses, hypergraphia, and hyper-religiousity, and since when was it a mental illness to think too much, write/draw a lot, and have the occasional non-psychotic transcendental experience? And, irregardless of whether it is a mental illness or not, how can it be seperated from my environment (a skinhead wielding a metal bar) from my biology (everything on my side of the border between my scalp and the bar upon impact)?

Additionally, i've been anorexic for most of my life, supposedly started because of sexual abuse when I was in pre-school... but pedophilia is a mental illness, and most of us here agree that mental illnesses have a biological component, so was it my environment or someone else's biology that started this? Or, alternatively, did I just up and decide at the age of 3, "Well, this whole "eating" scene is getting a bit dull, I think i'll just quit wasting my time on it." Where does self-determinism come into play here, if at all?

I've also been told that depression must be a biological disorder because there are effective biological treatments... well, there are some pretty convincing data that ethyl alcohol is a pretty darn effective treatment for sobriety, so that must be a biological disorder as well! I've been told that my tic disorder is genetic, because I have a cousin that has it too... okay, so what gene is it located on? Tic disorder could have virtually any other mental disorder substituted in its place in that question... okay, so my cousin has Tourette's syndrome too... all that says to me is that it is familial, not that it is genetic. Who knows, maybe our grandma or granddad had a latent infection that was passed down the generations to us, two people who happen to develop an environmental trigger (in this case, we both have early onset eating disorders, so maybe malnutrition leading to suppressed immunity?) and get full-blown Tourette's syndrome. Now here's this other fascinating familial link: I got some e-mail from my dad today, apparently he typed it out on his computer, and here I am typing away myself!

Basically, i think there is no really true answer to this question... but I do think it was true what Zalle said in their post, that pharmas are making us feel like we must be chemically altered so that we can be normal, which apparently has been well-characterized by science but I have as yet been unable to find what the diagnostic criteria are for "normal" ... and the people who have been chemically altered will often gladly elaborate on how right the pharmas were... sort of like how drunk people at parties always want to get the shy one drunk, too.

I think, to a large extent, Zalle is also correct that we are kept safely medicated to keep us more manageable... I mean, over half of the United States prison system is on daily prescribed psychotropic drug regimens.

But I can't complain too much, i like the effects of my anticonvulsants. Like with SOMA in "Brave New World" I can wake up the next day without so much as a headache or a dogma!

How is it that that song by the Germs went?

"Just a pill and a dream/ A sill and a scheme/ It's a suicide machine... "

~AA

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion.... » SLS

Posted by galkeepinon on July 31, 2003, at 0:26:59

In reply to Re: Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by SLS on July 30, 2003, at 7:02:57

Scott, I just wanted to commend you on this post. Thank you so muchh for this! Thoughtful post.


Thanks again!

Gal


>
> BIOLOGY OR PSYCHOLOGY?
>
>
> The best answer to this question may be “either and both”.
>
> Many of us here have been diagnosed as having a mental illness.
> Mental illnesses are not mental weaknesses. The diagnoses that we
> are most familiar with include:
>
> 1. Major Depression (Unipolar Depression)
> 2. Bipolar Disorder (Manic Depression)
> 3. Dysthymia (Minor Depression)
> 4. Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)
> 5. Schizophrenia
> 6. Schizoaffective Disorder
> 7. Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD)
> 8. Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
> 9. Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD)
> 10. Panic Disorder
>
>
> All of these disorders have one thing in common. They are not our
> fault. Each disorder has both biological and psychological
> components. We all begin our lives with a brain that is built
> using the blueprints contained within the genes we inherit from
> our parents. Later, hormones change the brain to prepare it for
> adulthood. It is continually being changed by the things we
> experience. The brain determines the mind as the mind sculpts the
> brain. Unfortunately, the brain can also be changed in negative
> ways by things such as drugs, alcohol, injury, and chronic
> stress.
>
> How we think and feel are influenced by our environment. Probably
> the most important environment during our development is that of
> the family, with the most important time being our childhood. We
> all have both positive and negative experiences as we travel
> through life. How we are as adults is in large part determined by
> these positive and negative experiences. They affect our
> psychology, our emotions, and our behaviors. All of us can be
> hurt by unhealthy negative experiences.
>
> Some of us are also hurt by unhealthy brains. Medical science has
> long recognized that many mental illnesses are actually
> biological disorders. Even Sigmund Freud, who we know for his
> development of psychoanalysis, proposed a role for biology in
> mental illness. He was, after all, a neurologist. The first solid
> evidence for this concept in modern times came with the discovery
> of lithium in 1947. Lithium was found to cause the symptoms of
> bipolar disorder (manic-depression) to disappear completely,
> allowing previously disabled people to lead normal lives. Lithium
> helps to correct for the abnormal neurotransmission in the brain
> that is the cause of bipolar disorder. Subsequent medical
> discoveries included the observations that the drug, Thorazine
> (an antipsychotic), successfully treated schizophrenia, and that
> Tofranil (an antidepressant) successfully treated depression.
> Again, these drugs help to correct for the abnormal biology of
> the brain that accompanies these disorders.
>
> What about psychology? What role does it play in mental illness?
> This can be a
> two-way street. The abnormal biology that occurs with some
> mental illnesses affects our psychology – how we think, feel, and
> behave. On the other hand, our psychology can also affect our
> biology. As we now know, the emotional stresses and traumas we
> experience change the way our brains operate. This is especially
> true of things we experience during childhood. These stresses can
> trigger the induction of abnormal brain function that leads to
> major depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and other
> major mental illnesses. In order for this to happen, however,
> there must be a genetic or some other biological vulnerability to
> begin with.
>
> Unfortunately, there are still too many people who cannot bring
> themselves to believe that the most common mental illnesses are
> actually brain disorders. However, the vast majority of our top
> researchers in psychiatry and neuroscience do.
>
> The National Institutes of Health, the federal government’s
> official repository of medical research, has made available to
> the public free publications describing the current research into
> psychiatric disorders. They include descriptions of the
> biological and psychological aspects of major mental illness.
> Each press release and research publication begins by stating
> emphatically that these are indeed brain disorders.
>
> NIMH Public Inquiries
> 6001 Executive Boulevard, Rm. 8184, MSC 9663
> Bethesda, MD 20892-9663 U.S.A.
> Voice (301) 443-4513; Fax (301) 443-4279
> TTY (301) 443-8431
>
> It is important to remember that not all psychological and
> emotional difficulties are biological in origin. Again, we are
> all products of our environments – family, friends, enemies,
> school, work, culture, climate, love, war, etc. Environments that
> are unhealthy often produce unhealthy people. However, this, too,
> is not our fault.
>
> In conclusion, regardless of the cause of our mental illnesses,
> it is important that we treat both the biological and the
> psychological. We will all benefit most if we do.
>
>
>
> - Scott

 

Better living through chemistry.

Posted by HenryO on July 31, 2003, at 2:00:21

In reply to Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42

I was on tilt in kindergarten. My entire elementary school experience, I guess that's three quarters of my childhood, would have been very different if I had had medication. In highschool and college I medicated myself. After getting sober, I limped along. Eventually I saw through the subterfuge of shrinks blaming me. I demanded medication. I wish I had gotten actual medical help thirty years ago. I wish I had my money back from those talking cure empathy junkies who got in touch with my pain.

 

Re: Better living through chemistry. » HenryO

Posted by galkeepinon on July 31, 2003, at 2:11:38

In reply to Better living through chemistry., posted by HenryO on July 31, 2003, at 2:00:21

up until I was 19 I was ok, went through a break up with my fiance and all hell broke loose. Got severly depressed, went into my first psych hospital, went on my first antidepressant, don't know what went wrong. Family issues, environnment, put downs, I wish I could go back, do over have it turn out differently maybe with meds, maybe without. I don't know.........
I look back and wonder what happened to get me off track? When I started seeing shrinks, I got worse, all the stuff came out, it was my fault?? Seems that way.... I had to look at why my father wasnt there because he was an alcoholic/addict? I had to wonder why I chose to go across a stream while playing and get raped? Heck I was only 7. Can't I just put those things behind me? Do meds really work or is it (as someone mentioned in an earlier post this week) a fact of A LOT of hard, intense work w/o meds to get better? At this moment I wonder if thats what I may need to do, work that no med can do????? Interesting..........


Thoughts anyone????


> I was on tilt in kindergarten. My entire elementary school experience, I guess that's three quarters of my childhood, would have been very different if I had had medication. In highschool and college I medicated myself. After getting sober, I limped along. Eventually I saw through the subterfuge of shrinks blaming me. I demanded medication. I wish I had gotten actual medical help thirty years ago. I wish I had my money back from those talking cure empathy junkies who got in touch with my pain.

 

This turned out to be anwesome thread....

Posted by john Henry on July 31, 2003, at 6:10:10

In reply to Re: Better living through chemistry. » HenryO, posted by galkeepinon on July 31, 2003, at 2:11:38

Check out my dreamergurl's site.Pretty good stuff.

http://www.dreamchild.net/

 

Re: Better living through chemistry. » galkeepinon

Posted by avid abulia on July 31, 2003, at 8:15:50

In reply to Re: Better living through chemistry. » HenryO, posted by galkeepinon on July 31, 2003, at 2:11:38

> Do meds really work or is it (as someone mentioned in an earlier post this week) a fact of A LOT of hard, intense work w/o meds to get better? At this moment I wonder if thats what I may need to do, work that no med can do????? Interesting..........
>
>
> Thoughts anyone????
>
>

****************
My general take on currently available psychotropic meds are that they are somewhat akin to narcotics... there are definitely situations where they will make the situation much more bareable and are clearly needed, and sometimes just letting the body heal itself, while under the influence of something that makes you at least not care about the pain, even if you still feel it, is all that is necessary... but in most cases where narcotics are used, there are changes in diet, environment, lifestyle, habits, socialization, coping skills, etc. that make all the difference between elimination of the pain, or popping a pill (or eight pills, whatever) three times per day to get by for the rest of your days and still feeling the pain (but not caring quite so much about it)...

Speaking of, it's about that time of day *sighs* *takes meds* *yawns* *curses self for ever having put Vivactil in his body* *wishes he had slept last night and the night before*

And then i'm sure that there will still be some people for whom so much damage has been done or whose condition is so poorly understood, that they can make all the right non-medication changes in their lives, and then still need the meds. But, it would be my guess that these people are in the minority, that eventually most of us could theoretically use medication to stabilize our behavior and then slowly work it out from there.

Just two more of my cents.

~AA

 

Re: This turned out to be anwesome thread.... » john Henry

Posted by galkeepinon on July 31, 2003, at 11:09:29

In reply to This turned out to be anwesome thread...., posted by john Henry on July 31, 2003, at 6:10:10

thanks for this-going to check it out as soon as I can, have to see my doc in a few minutes.

Looks good:)!!!!!!!
Thanks again,

Gal


> Check out my dreamergurl's site.Pretty good stuff.
>
> http://www.dreamchild.net/

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....

Posted by jflange on July 31, 2003, at 15:19:15

In reply to Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42

A bad metaphor, but: the root of my illness, I suppose, is the hardware of my neural disposition modified (enhanced?) by the software of my experience, the latter which, as I understand it, has forever changed the fundamental structure of the hardware, i.e.: it is inextricably part of my memory. So I believe my answer to your question is that it is both my hardware and my software, since it appears they are in constant dialogue.

That is not to say that I think we go through some Biblical-type "fall" - never to return - with our illnesses. I believe the neural pathways are, for the most part, endlessly plastic, and it does seem possible to "recover," whether through meds or experience, a sense of well-being, or indeed to "discover" well-being where there had never been such a thing before.
jflange

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....

Posted by maxime on July 31, 2003, at 15:40:17

In reply to Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42

I've been depressed since I was 6 years old. Dr. told my parents but they didn't believe it to be so. By age 14 I was bipolar. Finally when I was in my 20's I took matters into my own hands. So I think in my case it is a chemical imbalance compounded by the fact that I had to wait 15 years before I received therapy and meds. Early intervention is the key, I think.

Had a PET scan twice - once when depressed and once when I was manic. Both showed up on the scans.

IMHO If you feel like you depression descended upon you, like something attacking you and you feel like you have been singled out. Then it might be as result of events in life.

If you feel like the depression comes from within and is a part of you and you can't remeber a time when you didn't feel this way then it is probably a chemical imbalance.

That is just my theory so please don't pounce on me for saying it. :-)

Max

> There was a time when most of us didn't need medication(like childhood or even 0-10 years ago) then all of a sudden-BANG-we are slaves to the pills.What do you think caused this:
> 1-Chemical Imbalance with brain chemistry
>
> 2-Life stessors such as getting too old,hating your job,problem w/your marriage,death's in the family etc.
>
> I am just curious what everyone thinks happened to them.....Not what the Doctors that see you for 5 min,write a prescription,then drive home in their porsche.What is the root of your illness?
> -Something wrong with your brain or
>
> -things that have happened over your lifetime?
>

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion.... » maxime

Posted by galkeepinon on July 31, 2003, at 16:45:58

In reply to Re: Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by maxime on July 31, 2003, at 15:40:17

Hey Max, You said>>> "If you feel like you depression descended upon you, like something attacking you and you feel like you have been singled out. Then it might be as result of events in life. If you feel like the depression comes from within and is a part of you and you can't remeber a time when you didn't feel this way then it is probably a chemical imbalance".
I CAN remember a time when I didn't feel this way-many, many, many times, so it was interesting that you said the first staement as it applies to me a lot. Addictive personality traits run in my family, as do anxiety and a little OCD-not horrific, but it's interesting you mention "life events" because I feel that has put me where I'm at today. Regardless of who, how, or why.
So what do you think is the best way to solve this, get past it, and move on???
And nope, you'll get no pounces from me:)
Thanks for a great post, hope to hear back,

Gal


I've been depressed since I was 6 years old. Dr. told my parents but they didn't believe it to be so. By age 14 I was bipolar. Finally when I was in my 20's I took matters into my own hands. So I think in my case it is a chemical imbalance compounded by the fact that I had to wait 15 years before I received therapy and meds. Early intervention is the key, I think.
>
> Had a PET scan twice - once when depressed and once when I was manic. Both showed up on the scans.
>
> IMHO If you feel like you depression descended upon you, like something attacking you and you feel like you have been singled out. Then it might be as result of events in life.
>
> If you feel like the depression comes from within and is a part of you and you can't remeber a time when you didn't feel this way then it is probably a chemical imbalance.
>
> That is just my theory so please don't pounce on me for saying it. :-)
>
> Max
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > There was a time when most of us didn't need medication(like childhood or even 0-10 years ago) then all of a sudden-BANG-we are slaves to the pills.What do you think caused this:
> > 1-Chemical Imbalance with brain chemistry
> >
> > 2-Life stessors such as getting too old,hating your job,problem w/your marriage,death's in the family etc.
> >
> > I am just curious what everyone thinks happened to them.....Not what the Doctors that see you for 5 min,write a prescription,then drive home in their porsche.What is the root of your illness?
> > -Something wrong with your brain or
> >
> > -things that have happened over your lifetime?
> >
>
>

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....

Posted by Janis on July 31, 2003, at 18:07:46

In reply to Would like everyone's opinion...., posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:47:42

Everyone's answers are MOST interesting and really food for thought! I would say that it is a combination of both...mostly brain chemistry, but the pace and complications of life in this 21st Century as well. I am really enjoying this thread!

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....Gal

Posted by maxime on July 31, 2003, at 22:47:35

In reply to Re: Would like everyone's opinion.... » maxime, posted by galkeepinon on July 31, 2003, at 16:45:58

> Hey Max, You said>>> "If you feel like you depression descended upon you, like something attacking you and you feel like you have been singled out. Then it might be as result of events in life. If you feel like the depression comes from within and is a part of you and you can't remeber a time when you didn't feel this way then it is probably a chemical imbalance".
> I CAN remember a time when I didn't feel this way-many, many, many times, so it was interesting that you said the first staement as it applies to me a lot. Addictive personality traits run in my family, as do anxiety and a little OCD-not horrific, but it's interesting you mention "life events" because I feel that has put me where I'm at today. Regardless of who, how, or why.
> So what do you think is the best way to solve this, get past it, and move on???
> And nope, you'll get no pounces from me:)
> Thanks for a great post, hope to hear back,
>
> Gal

Thanks! I don't think you can get past anything or move on because it will just hit you in the ass later on. I would "think" that if you identified which situations caused the "flare up" then you would want to look at how you dealt with and then how you could deal with it better the next time so you don't get stuck in a pattern.

You could either do this with a therapist or on your with the help of cognitive behaviour therapy books. There is a book called the Depression and Bipolar workbook or something like that and you can do only the chapters or sections that apply to you. Think of it as adding it to your tool box for coping.

I also think this is a good way for anyone with depression or anxiety to learn better ways of coping no matter where the depression comes from.

Again, this is just based on personal experience and observation of others.

Max

 

Re: Would like everyone's opinion....Gal » maxime

Posted by galkeepinon on July 31, 2003, at 23:50:33

In reply to Re: Would like everyone's opinion....Gal, posted by maxime on July 31, 2003, at 22:47:35

Thanks again! Is the book you're referring to written by David Burns?? I think I've heard of it.
**You make so much sense here>> I would "think" that if you identified which situations caused the "flare up" then you would want to look at how you dealt with and then how you could deal with it better the next time so you don't get stuck in a pattern.
The "pattern" is what I seem to be stuck in
and have been for a long time. I've been on right med combos before to be able to function in CBT but haven't been able to do much of anything for a while since some of my meds "pooped out" on me, so I'm trying to get them "right" again. I really want to change my thinking on some of this stuff that continues the "patterns" we speak of here.
Thanks again
Take Care!
Gal


> > Hey Max, You said>>> "If you feel like you depression descended upon you, like something attacking you and you feel like you have been singled out. Then it might be as result of events in life. If you feel like the depression comes from within and is a part of you and you can't remeber a time when you didn't feel this way then it is probably a chemical imbalance".
> > I CAN remember a time when I didn't feel this way-many, many, many times, so it was interesting that you said the first staement as it applies to me a lot. Addictive personality traits run in my family, as do anxiety and a little OCD-not horrific, but it's interesting you mention "life events" because I feel that has put me where I'm at today. Regardless of who, how, or why.
> > So what do you think is the best way to solve this, get past it, and move on???
> > And nope, you'll get no pounces from me:)
> > Thanks for a great post, hope to hear back,
> >
> > Gal
>
> Thanks! I don't think you can get past anything or move on because it will just hit you in the ass later on. I would "think" that if you identified which situations caused the "flare up" then you would want to look at how you dealt with and then how you could deal with it better the next time so you don't get stuck in a pattern.
>
> You could either do this with a therapist or on your with the help of cognitive behaviour therapy books. There is a book called the Depression and Bipolar workbook or something like that and you can do only the chapters or sections that apply to you. Think of it as adding it to your tool box for coping.
>
> I also think this is a good way for anyone with depression or anxiety to learn better ways of coping no matter where the depression comes from.
>
> Again, this is just based on personal experience and observation of others.
>
> Max


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