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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DiscoPuppy on June 6, 2002, at 9:58:29
I remember reading somewhere (maybe here) that drinking milk with Adderall increases its effectiveness. I assumed it had something to do with its alkalinity, but am not sure.
Can someone confirm?
Also, if this indeed the case, how does some who is lactose intolerant substitue milk to increase alkalinity in the tummy? I suppose I can take some Tums or something like that, but I wanted to keep my drug intake to a minimum.
Any ideas?
Posted by JohnX2 on June 6, 2002, at 19:01:47
In reply to ADDERALL ABSORPTION: acid vs. base, posted by DiscoPuppy on June 6, 2002, at 9:58:29
> I remember reading somewhere (maybe here) that drinking milk with Adderall increases its effectiveness. I assumed it had something to do with its alkalinity, but am not sure.
>
> Can someone confirm?
>Don't know. Your stomach has a thermostat to keep it at a certain
ph. So if you take something excessively basic, it squirts out more acid.
If you eat very acidic foods/drinks then you stomach may become temorarily
skewed towards being acidic, but it goes away after a while.> Also, if this indeed the case, how does some who is lactose intolerant substitue milk to increase alkalinity in the tummy? I suppose I can take some Tums or something like that, but I wanted to keep my drug intake to a minimum.
>
> Any ideas?Milk has a lot more crap in it than tums.
You could try drinking some "Milk of Magnesia"
(magnesium hydroxide--nothing to do with milk).
Its very mild.John
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on June 7, 2002, at 1:14:24
In reply to ADDERALL ABSORPTION: acid vs. base, posted by DiscoPuppy on June 6, 2002, at 9:58:29
The main way the effectiveness of amphetamines are increased is to DECREASE their urinary EXCRETION. When your urine is acidic, amphetamines are eliminated at a much faster rate than if your urine is basic. If your urine is alkaline, the amphetamines (much of which are excreted unchanged) are actually reabsorbed into your bloodstream (through the renal tubules or something like that), so with alkaline or even neutral urine your dex/adderall lasts alot longer.
In most people, urine is usually acidic most of the time. The acid/basic balance of the blood is very tightly controlled & can't really be altered to a significant degree by food/drink.As far as the stomach goes, the information on whether the normally acidic stomach degrades or has no effect on amphetamines is scarce. Most of the amphetamine is absorbed in the intestine which has an alkaline ph (7.4 or something close to that).
Food in the stomach supposedly doesn't affect the extent of absorption (unlike Ritalin) but food will greatly slow the time (tmax) to peak blood level (cmax). It is this rapidity of the rise in blood level that is responsible for much of the euphoric action of the drug- I notice the greatest efficacy & subjective effects of Dextrostat are when I take it on an empty stomach with ice-water or fat free milk.
The most significant information i've found on this subject is that Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) BOTH increases the absorption of amphetamines & by alkanalizing the urine greatly decreases their excretion. There are instructions (be sure to follow/read them exactly) on the side of the box of Arm & Hammer Baking Soda on how to use it as an antacid. I used to take that on an empty stomach a half an hour or so before I took Dextrostat with plain water. It definitely works, but most medical books say that using baking soda as an antacid or urinary alkanalizing agent is BAD FOR YOUR BODY. It tends to throw off your body's acid-base balance in the long-term especially at the higher doses used to alkanalize the urine- I don't recommend this approach to anyone- I don't need to use Baking Soda anymore now that I have an adequate, proper therapeutic dose regimen of Dextrostat everyday (20 mg bid).
Note- Most Antacids like Pepcid AC excetera will not work in this same way & do not alkanalize the urine to the extent Baking Soda does. Most Antacids, especially those that coat the stomach will actually will DECREASE the absorption of any drug (not sure about Tagament/Cimetadine in this case though), so taking an antacid other than Baking Soda during amphetamine therapy is the last thing you would want to do. For DiscoPuppy- I don't know if lactose intolerant people can take baking soda- I would just stick to plain ice-water if I were you.
I've searched all around on trying to figure out which drinks & foods are acidic or basic & haven't found much to go on but this is what i've found:
Avoid Cola & Coffee. These are two of the worst things to drink with amphetamines. The reason being is that not only that they are very acidic [(cola=phosphoric acid (bad)], & when caffeine occurs from or is derived from a coffee bean or kola nut it is irritating to the stomach & more stomach acid is released eventally making the urine more acidic. Even decaffeinated coffees & colas increase stomach acid secretion to a surprisingly high degree. If you must drink caffeine, take No-Doz and drink ice-water instead. Caffeine in pill form only causes the release of 1/2 as much gastric acid as an amount of coffee with an equal amount of caffeine. But Caffeine, as a diuretic/urinary stimulating agent decreases the renal reabsorption of amphetamine & probably shortens its duration of action.I don't know the ph of tea or iced tea but would like to find out since "Sweetened Southern Iced Tea" is my favorite & i'm sick of drinking plain water. Obviously, you can't put lemon in it in your tea while on amphetamines.
Acidic fruit juices must be avoided- citric acid in particular. This a major problem (for me) since even Gatorade has citric acid in it (although with sports drinks, I am not sure if other ingredients are added to neutralize the ph. I guess you would have to buy litmus paper to find out. Where do you buy litmus paper anyways?- I didn't see it in the office supply section of Wal-Mart the last time I was there!
I learned that Milk is alkaline, but when the fat & proteins in milk are digested, acid production is slightly increased, so it is probably best to drink fat-free milk.
Unless there is some alkaline drink I don't know about (I haven't found any yet- anyone let me know if you find something- is V8 juice alkaline?), I think the best thing to do is to just drink plain ice-water, even if you don't like the taste as much as your usual morning coffee, cola, tea etc. Plain water, since it has a neutral ph of 7.0 allows hydration & normal urine flow but without potentiating the urinary excretion of amphetamines.
I would like to find out the Ph of the various flavors of Gatorade, Powerade & also the Propel Fitness waters, since most people tire of drinking plain water after awhile, but I don't think they (the manufacturers) publish this info.
I don't know if dehydration causes acidification of urine? Does anyone know this? But regardless, dehydration makes you tired, so it is best avoided.
Ritalin doesn't have any of these drink restrictions, but you have to take it on an empty stomach, otherwise its absorption & efficacy are VERY markedly decreased, so that might be worse or better depending on the person (& how much they like Coffee).
Also, avoid Ginseng at all costs! You would think the opposite, but Ginseng inhibits the actions of amphetamines.
3 Beers.......
Posted by JohnX2 on June 7, 2002, at 6:36:27
In reply to info- Fluid restrictions w/ Dex/Adderall extensive, posted by 3 Beer Effect on June 7, 2002, at 1:14:24
Posted by JohnX2 on June 7, 2002, at 6:55:10
In reply to info- Fluid restrictions w/ Dex/Adderall extensive, posted by 3 Beer Effect on June 7, 2002, at 1:14:24
This baking soda trick will throw off your body's
balance of important electrolytes like Sodium and
Potassium. Seems most of the AEDs work on these electrolytes
on the brain one way or another..I would be concerned about using the baking soda trick if
you are taking any medicine besides dex/adderall. Even then...why
not just get the dosage adjusted?What do you think?
John
> The main way the effectiveness of amphetamines are increased is to DECREASE their urinary EXCRETION. When your urine is acidic, amphetamines are eliminated at a much faster rate than if your urine is basic. If your urine is alkaline, the amphetamines (much of which are excreted unchanged) are actually reabsorbed into your bloodstream (through the renal tubules or something like that), so with alkaline or even neutral urine your dex/adderall lasts alot longer.
> In most people, urine is usually acidic most of the time. The acid/basic balance of the blood is very tightly controlled & can't really be altered to a significant degree by food/drink.
>
> As far as the stomach goes, the information on whether the normally acidic stomach degrades or has no effect on amphetamines is scarce. Most of the amphetamine is absorbed in the intestine which has an alkaline ph (7.4 or something close to that).
>
> Food in the stomach supposedly doesn't affect the extent of absorption (unlike Ritalin) but food will greatly slow the time (tmax) to peak blood level (cmax). It is this rapidity of the rise in blood level that is responsible for much of the euphoric action of the drug- I notice the greatest efficacy & subjective effects of Dextrostat are when I take it on an empty stomach with ice-water or fat free milk.
>
> The most significant information i've found on this subject is that Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) BOTH increases the absorption of amphetamines & by alkanalizing the urine greatly decreases their excretion. There are instructions (be sure to follow/read them exactly) on the side of the box of Arm & Hammer Baking Soda on how to use it as an antacid. I used to take that on an empty stomach a half an hour or so before I took Dextrostat with plain water. It definitely works, but most medical books say that using baking soda as an antacid or urinary alkanalizing agent is BAD FOR YOUR BODY. It tends to throw off your body's acid-base balance in the long-term especially at the higher doses used to alkanalize the urine- I don't recommend this approach to anyone- I don't need to use Baking Soda anymore now that I have an adequate, proper therapeutic dose regimen of Dextrostat everyday (20 mg bid).
>
> Note- Most Antacids like Pepcid AC excetera will not work in this same way & do not alkanalize the urine to the extent Baking Soda does. Most Antacids, especially those that coat the stomach will actually will DECREASE the absorption of any drug (not sure about Tagament/Cimetadine in this case though), so taking an antacid other than Baking Soda during amphetamine therapy is the last thing you would want to do. For DiscoPuppy- I don't know if lactose intolerant people can take baking soda- I would just stick to plain ice-water if I were you.
>
> I've searched all around on trying to figure out which drinks & foods are acidic or basic & haven't found much to go on but this is what i've found:
> Avoid Cola & Coffee. These are two of the worst things to drink with amphetamines. The reason being is that not only that they are very acidic [(cola=phosphoric acid (bad)], & when caffeine occurs from or is derived from a coffee bean or kola nut it is irritating to the stomach & more stomach acid is released eventally making the urine more acidic. Even decaffeinated coffees & colas increase stomach acid secretion to a surprisingly high degree. If you must drink caffeine, take No-Doz and drink ice-water instead. Caffeine in pill form only causes the release of 1/2 as much gastric acid as an amount of coffee with an equal amount of caffeine. But Caffeine, as a diuretic/urinary stimulating agent decreases the renal reabsorption of amphetamine & probably shortens its duration of action.
>
> I don't know the ph of tea or iced tea but would like to find out since "Sweetened Southern Iced Tea" is my favorite & i'm sick of drinking plain water. Obviously, you can't put lemon in it in your tea while on amphetamines.
>
> Acidic fruit juices must be avoided- citric acid in particular. This a major problem (for me) since even Gatorade has citric acid in it (although with sports drinks, I am not sure if other ingredients are added to neutralize the ph. I guess you would have to buy litmus paper to find out. Where do you buy litmus paper anyways?- I didn't see it in the office supply section of Wal-Mart the last time I was there!
>
> I learned that Milk is alkaline, but when the fat & proteins in milk are digested, acid production is slightly increased, so it is probably best to drink fat-free milk.
>
> Unless there is some alkaline drink I don't know about (I haven't found any yet- anyone let me know if you find something- is V8 juice alkaline?), I think the best thing to do is to just drink plain ice-water, even if you don't like the taste as much as your usual morning coffee, cola, tea etc. Plain water, since it has a neutral ph of 7.0 allows hydration & normal urine flow but without potentiating the urinary excretion of amphetamines.
>
> I would like to find out the Ph of the various flavors of Gatorade, Powerade & also the Propel Fitness waters, since most people tire of drinking plain water after awhile, but I don't think they (the manufacturers) publish this info.
>
> I don't know if dehydration causes acidification of urine? Does anyone know this? But regardless, dehydration makes you tired, so it is best avoided.
>
> Ritalin doesn't have any of these drink restrictions, but you have to take it on an empty stomach, otherwise its absorption & efficacy are VERY markedly decreased, so that might be worse or better depending on the person (& how much they like Coffee).
>
> Also, avoid Ginseng at all costs! You would think the opposite, but Ginseng inhibits the actions of amphetamines.
> 3 Beers.......
Posted by Christina on June 7, 2002, at 15:49:47
In reply to ADDERALL ABSORPTION: acid vs. base, posted by DiscoPuppy on June 6, 2002, at 9:58:29
I don't know about acid or base in the stomach, but if I take my Adderall with food, the absorption is severely decreased.
I normally take mine in the morning on a fairly empty stomach (I'll have a cup of hot tea with a little whole milk), and then take my 30 mg XR.
I eat a light lunch about 4 hours later (even tho I'm not really hungry). Then I don't eat again until dinner.This morning I ate an unusually large breakfast, then took the Adderall. I don't think it ever worked today because all day I felt like I do when I take nothing, and I've been eating non-stop.
Guess I learned my lesson.
Posted by medlib on June 7, 2002, at 20:20:35
In reply to info- Fluid restrictions w/ Dex/Adderall extensive, posted by 3 Beer Effect on June 7, 2002, at 1:14:24
Hi 3B--
Re litmus paper: This usually comes in the form of test strips (available in well-equipped drug stores or chemical suppliers); but most litmus paper is "narrow range" (measures pH 5.5-7.5). Probably, what you need is called "pH paper", which measures the full range pH 1-14. You can get 100 strips for $3 at www.learning resources.com (use search function). UT bookstore might possibly have it for chem labs. Or you can boil, then strain, chopped up red cabbage. The resulting liquid is an acid/base indicator (color change). The anthocyanins in the liquid are the same used in litmus paper.
Re pH of urine: Yes, dehydration increases acidity of urine (mostly due to increased concentration of uric acid).
Re: pH of food and drinks: A high protein diet produces very acidic urine; a vegetarian diet (high CHOs) produces basic (alkaline) urine. Your "balanced meal" has a pH about 6 (assuming you actually eat the vegetables).
The pH of black tea (used to make iced tea) depends on the kind of tea used. I've seen values from 4.9 to 6.4. (pH of black coffee is about 5). Lemon tea is about 3.7. V8 is mostly tomato juice (which is 4.1). Original coke is 2.6; Gatorade is 2.95; Powerade is 2.75. The only alkaline drink I know of is AlkaSelzer (after the fizz is gone). Drinks with a pH of less than 5.5 are harmful to tooth enamel (but don't brush until at least 30 min after acidic drink (to allow saliva to do what realkalinizing it can). And, although *pure* water has a neutral (7.0) pH, most city tap water is slightly acidic (due to dissolved chlorine).
[Note: Remembering high school chemistry (eons ago for me), pH = negative log (base 10) of hydrogen ion concentration. So 3.0 is 10x more acidic than 4.0 and 100x more acidic than 5.0; and 4.1 is twice as acidic as 4.2.]
Remembering such relatively useless stuff as pH when I can't find my car keys or recall what I read an hour ago pisses me off. Guess I'll go meditate or take another Wellbutrin (works better for me than Ritalin--can't take both b/c of EPS).
Btw, either stims have radically different mechanisms of action or my brain is wired even more peculiarly than I realized; Ritalin makes me more alert, Adderall gives me horrible headaches, and Dexedrine Spansules put me to sleep!
Regards, medlib
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on June 9, 2002, at 0:11:28
In reply to Qs re pH » 3 Beer Effect, posted by medlib on June 7, 2002, at 20:20:35
I was drinking Gatorade after I took Dextrostat all the time thinking that it had a pH similar to water.
I guess i'll stick to water or distilled water (ph 7.0) from now on.
One last question: What is the usual ph of fat-free/skim and 2% milk?
Thanks,
3 Beers......
Posted by nightlight on June 9, 2002, at 19:50:15
In reply to Tnkx, Bottom line: What is the impact? (nm) » 3 Beer Effect, posted by JohnX2 on June 7, 2002, at 6:36:27
To all interested in the true impact on absorption effects on amphetamines in an acidic atmosphere, visit:www.adhd.com/talk/expdocarc7.htm.
Sorry. I do not know how to drop links here. After nearly 3 yrs. I am still a mere tyro.
It's an 'ask the expert archive' and a pretty good site. This fellow believes the oj, etc, is not a big deal, but grapefruit, on the other hand-can kill you.
Let me know if url doesn't work. Or advise me how to drop a link or article I have copied..
nightlight
Posted by nightlight on June 9, 2002, at 20:05:02
In reply to 3-B, Disco, JohnX2::READ an opinion on pH dexedr » JohnX2, posted by nightlight on June 9, 2002, at 19:50:15
the post above, it WILL take you to correct Q & A site-but-you must check the archived questions listed down the *right side* of the screen to find the particular one regarding acidity and amphetamines. It's close to the bottom (about 15 or so questions down, but it's there.Just click on it and u're there (reading our pertinent question).
Lord, hope y'all find this at least mildly interesting, or at least contributory to our general states of confusion!
Luck-nite
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2002, at 9:26:37
In reply to 3-B, Disco, JohnX2::READ an opinion on pH dexedr » JohnX2, posted by nightlight on June 9, 2002, at 19:50:15
> Sorry. I do not know how to drop links here.
Just include the "http://"; at the beginning, for example:
http://www.adhd.com/talk/expdocarc7.htm
BTW, this is mentioned at:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#links
Bob
Posted by nightlight on June 10, 2002, at 14:19:32
In reply to Re: dropping links, posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2002, at 9:26:37
thanks dr.bob~
always happy when something I want to learn to do can be mastered easily! it *IS* summertime after all.
enjoy your hi-pressure washing & keep cool...
nite
Posted by StefGun on August 6, 2009, at 12:29:17
In reply to Re: info- Fluid restrictions w/ Dex/Adderall extensive, posted by JohnX2 on June 7, 2002, at 6:55:10
There is a product called "AlkaMax" which is an alkalizing agent used to neutralize any acidic drink and turn it into an alkaline drink. All you have to do is add these drops to whatever beverage of your choosing and Ta-Da! you instantly have an alkaline drink. I add it to my coffee in the morning and to neutralize the citric acid in my Crystal Light drinks throughout the day. It's not very expensive and a much better option for me than drinking plain water--I don't know about you, but I hate drinking plain water, iced or not! Anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks for answering.
This is the end of the thread.
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