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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 17, 2002, at 20:04:27
?
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 17, 2002, at 20:55:26
In reply to alcohol- in the end it's alcohol that works 4 me, posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 17, 2002, at 20:04:27
Posted by krazy kat on May 21, 2002, at 16:10:16
In reply to alcohol- in the end it's alcohol that works 4 me, posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 17, 2002, at 20:04:27
How did I miss this post, my sweet?
Are you o.k.?
- kk
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 24, 2002, at 20:37:41
In reply to Re: alcohol- in the end it's alcohol that works 4 me » CtrlAlt n Del, posted by krazy kat on May 21, 2002, at 16:10:16
..the brief euphoria from binge drink (just can't limit myself) isn't worth it.. dreadful depression the following few days after..I'm ok : )
Posted by omega man on June 1, 2002, at 23:52:28
In reply to alcohol- in the end it's alcohol that works 4 me, posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 17, 2002, at 20:04:27
Alcohol ?? Alcohol shrinks your brain...makes you incognent...a pain to be round and hence..isolated....
In the long term it destroys you quicker than heroin...
makes me depressed to think about it...
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on June 4, 2002, at 1:14:07
In reply to Re: alcohol- in the end it's alcohol that works 4 me, posted by omega man on June 1, 2002, at 23:52:28
I haven't drank since september 11th since weekend binge drinking seems to make me depressed over the long term but all the psychiatric meds i've tried aren't even close to matching the socialbilizing/disinhibiting anxiolytic effects of alcohol.
Klonopin is supposed to be the best medication for social phobia but its anti-anxiety/anxiolytic effects are a joke compared to good old (& much cheaper) alcohol.
As far as health effects, they are often exaggerated to 'scare' social drinkers, especially here in the U.S. Only a small (I think 15%) of chronic/severe alcoholics develop cirrohsis, & those that do average ATLEAST 7 drinks a day for 17 YEARS straight. In many of these patients, cirrhosis develops mainly because of malnutrition. Since alcohol has so many (empty) carbohydrates & calories, these alcoholics stop eating, & become malnourished & vitamin-depleted.
Also, most researchers think that if not too fargone, alcohol's negative effects on cognition are largely reversible over time by abstinence from drinking.
Of course, liver damage is mostly irreversible & the prognosis for cirrhosis is usually either liver transplant or death, but long term abstinence before the onset of cirrohsis can improve the outlook of the patient- the body & the liver have a remarkable ability to regenerate.
I would be more concerned with the exploding Hepatitis C epidemic. Many more people have Hepatitis C in the United States than HIV/Aids. Hepatitis is insidious in that it lies dormant for something like 30 years before symptoms become apparent, & then often its too late & there is no cure. Most at risk for Hepatitis C are IV drug users, but
GETTING A TATOO is a high risk activity for Hepatitis C! Apparently, Tattoo parlors have not figured out how to sterilize their instruments properly & many people are unknowingly contracting Hepatitis C through this route. A person with a Tatoo is 9 times as likely to have Hepatitis C as one who doesn't!So if you have one, or have used IV drugs, get tested for Hepatitis C.
3 Beers...........
Posted by Chris A. on June 5, 2002, at 20:59:44
In reply to alcoholism may be safer than getting a tattoo, posted by 3 Beer Effect on June 4, 2002, at 1:14:07
Posted by Phil on June 5, 2002, at 21:40:17
In reply to alcoholism may be safer than getting a tattoo, posted by 3 Beer Effect on June 4, 2002, at 1:14:07
You are very naive looking at statistics of brain and liver recovery as it relates to alcoholism. It's as much a spiritual disease, ie, trying to fill the black hole in the soul, as it is physical.
You're doing good not drinking, that's great. But if you claim alcohol benefits for whatever, I'd talk to a few seasoned recovered alcoholics and see how much they wanted to live while drinking. Not much.
Don't mean to be so harsh but I know where that road leads. A low bottom alcoholic ain't just the bum on the street. For years I saw my mom as sick as any heroin addict could possibly get. It was horrifying to grow up with that.
Go get a tattoo and show to your home group at AA. Sounds to me like you wouldn't mind a drink.If you think,"Researchers are finding that this and this is reversible, fine." But you really don't quite know alcoholism. You think an alcoholic reaches brain damage and liver problems is going to want to rejuvenate their body or drink??
You think the health effects are exaggerated to scare social drinkers. Social drinkers aren't concerned about addiction, they are social drinkers. It need not enter their mind unless it starts escalating which most real social drinkers won't do. They don't really enjoy drinking, but being social.
I'm gonna stop or I could write a book. You're a sharp guy 3 Beer Effect but it has been proven that intelligent people have the hardest time getting sober. They think their addiction is a matter of information and statistics. It takes lawyers, doctors a long time to grasp AA which is where most recovery takes place. The 12 steps don't talk about alcohol much; the disease is a disease of the spirit. The steps deal with your spiritual life of which alcoholics, in the end, have lost total contact of.Just my opinion but keep this in mind. An alcoholic doesn't have to drink much at all. A person that has a glass of wine on Sunday can be alcoholic. It's the 'reason' you drink and how you count down the days til Sunday. If you drank to purposely become less inhibited, social drinkers don't do that. But every alcoholic lists that as one of their reasons.
Don't take this personally, alcoholism is a disease not a character flaw.
Posted by jazzdog on June 6, 2002, at 10:16:21
In reply to alcoholism may be safer than getting a tattoo, posted by 3 Beer Effect on June 4, 2002, at 1:14:07
The highest alcohol-associated risks are suicides, drunk driving fatalities, and house fires caused by falling asleep while smoking. I've lost friends to all three.
Posted by Elizabeth on June 7, 2002, at 1:17:18
In reply to alcoholism may be safer than getting a tattoo, posted by 3 Beer Effect on June 4, 2002, at 1:14:07
Umm...does anyone have any stats on the risk of infection (HIV infection in particular) from tatoo needles? AIDS is *much* more horrific than hepatitis C, and (IMO) more reasonable to compare to the risks of chronic alcohol abuse. Hep C is relatively treatable; it's really not as scary as you make it out to be. (Not to say it shouldn't be taken seriously.)
So about that alcohol...there really are a lot of serious risks associated with excessive drinking, including some that can be irreversible. A couple of potential dangers of alcoholism that nobody has mentioned here:
Alcohol greatly potentiates other CNS depressants. There are quite a few drugs that are seldom lethal in overdose by themselves but can be lethal if combined with alcohol. Alcohol by itself can be lethal in overdose too.
Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome, caused by thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency. The vitamin deficiency results not only from poor diet, but also from decreased absorption due to GI inflammation; storage and utilization may also be impaired. Typically, though not always, the thiamine deficiency syndrome has two stages: Wernicke's encephalopathy followed by Korsakoff's syndrome. The main symptoms of Wernicke's encephalopathy are: visual symptoms (double vision, abnormal eye movements, etc.); incoordination and unstable gait; abnormal reflexes; and cognitive symptoms (drowsiness, confusion, disorientation). There is often damage to central and peripheral nerves. WE can be fatal if untreated. Korsakoff's syndrome sometimes presents by itself, with no preceding episode of Wernicke's. The risk of KS is increased, however, if WE goes untreated or is treated late. The symptoms are: memory loss; inability (or greatly diminished ability) to learn new information; and confabulation. Some symptoms, particularly the memory problems, may be permanent, *even with treatment*; however, treatment and appropriate lifestyle changes do seem, at least, to prevent or slow further damage. Most people with KS do *not* recover fully, though.
Alcoholic dementia is a more generalized form of chronic cognitive functioning than KS. Symptoms include globally impaired intellectual functioning, memory, abstract thought, and judgement, and sometimes personality changes.
Alcohol withdrawal symptoms can include cardiovascular lability which often results in heart attack or stroke. There's also a risk of seizures, which can be fatal as well. Alcohol withdrawal psychosis, or delirium tremens, typically includes hallucinations (especially visual hallucinations), confusion, disorientation, etc.
Inflammation can increase the risk of infections. The immune system is also often compromised. The linings of the stomach and intestines may be damaged, which impairs the active absorption of many nutrients (notably thiamine; see above).
Alcoholics are also more likely to develop a number of types of cancer, especially in the digestive system, than nonalcoholics. Deficiencies in antioxidants and formation of free radicals in alcohol metabolism may contribute.
There's also the "fetal alcohol syndrome" -- alcohol is a teratogen and can cause birth defects, notably mental retardation.
Even if a drunk person doesn't drive (or set his/her house on fire while smoking), impaired coordination and judgment when drunk can lead to other types of accidents (falling, bumping into things, being hit by a car while crossing the street).
Many people become more aggressive when they are drunk, which (combined with impaired judgment) can lead to violence (fights, abuse of child/spouse, etc.).
Alcohol use also can be potentially dangerous for people who already have impaired liver functioning, such as those with...hepatitis! (You also shouldn't drink if you're taking certain drugs that can elevate liver enzymes.)
3beers: Klonopin isn't working so well? Have you considered the possibility that your dose is too low? You also might try a different benzo; sometimes people do find that one benzo works better than another (for no particular reason that anybody knows). Also, remember that Klonopin isn't a mood elevator (to use a dated expression), but that's a separate issue from whether it helps with anxiety. Benzos really are highly effective substitutes for alcohol, and they're much less toxic. I hope you'll try to find a way to treat your social anxiety without resorting to booze; as you see, liver damage and depression are only two of the numerous potential health hazards of alcohol abuse.
Alcohol is a pretty good organic solvent, but as a drug, it's just plain dirty (and not in a good way). There's a reason it's called inTOXICation.
* In memoriam Scott Krueger (1979-1997) *
Posted by Phil on June 7, 2002, at 6:27:55
In reply to Re: alcoholism may be safer than getting a tattoo, posted by Elizabeth on June 7, 2002, at 1:17:18
That was some excellent information. I'm saving that one!
Falls were the worst in my family; I won't go into detail but was scared beyond anything when younger. Also, fake suicide attempts. i.e., "I just took all my pills."
I'm glad you can put the science out there as I deal more with emotion.
Thanks again.Phil
Posted by Hildi on June 30, 2002, at 18:57:48
In reply to alcoholism may be safer than getting a tattoo, posted by 3 Beer Effect on June 4, 2002, at 1:14:07
Alcoholism killed my grandmother, my mom, and I almost killed me, quite literally. It would have killed my brother if he did not stop.
I would have to say that my tattoo is much safer.
By the time I picked-up my last drink, my liver was shot, and I was only 32. My memory and my nervious system will never be the same. Some things do not rebound completely. The medical literature doesn't scare us with info that is 'overblown'. On the contrary, our culture seems to encourage drinking- the mass media spends big bucks showing how cool it is to drink.
Well, it is not cool. I hid behind alcohol a long time and it worked for a while to help me deal with my anxiety. However, alcohol is also a depressant. It has played a large part in helping me become the messed-up person I am today.
Posted by Christina333 on July 3, 2002, at 23:48:45
In reply to alcoholism may be safer than getting a tattoo, posted by 3 Beer Effect on June 4, 2002, at 1:14:07
Alchoholism is NOT SAFE at all. Why don't you just smoke pot?? Nobody dies from a pot overdose. And you rarely here of someone being killed by a stoned driver. Ask yourself this: what have you lost because of drinking, and what has it done to the people around you?
This is the end of the thread.
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