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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by nutsy on August 5, 2001, at 17:46:01
I had read once about forcing no sleep for one day and then subjects had a lifting of depression once back in normal sleep patterns.
Anyone try this? >
Posted by adamie on August 5, 2001, at 17:53:07
In reply to 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression?, posted by nutsy on August 5, 2001, at 17:46:01
> I had read once about forcing no sleep for one day and then subjects had a lifting of depression once back in normal sleep patterns.
>
> Anyone try this? >this seems very interesting.
I know due to my experience that the amount of sleep I have can effect my depression. It seems sometimes when I sleep more than 8 hours I feel worse the next time I wake up.
Normally I wake up 3-4 times whenever I am in bed sleeping and then have to go back to sleep. Say I slept for 7 hours when I woke up my 2nd time, and I somewhat feel a bit okay. but I am extremely tired and brain dead of course due to the depression so I cant wake myself up by thinking. I go back to sleep then I wake up 2 hours later... and I feel worse. it is strange.
One possibility for this occurance in me is that perhaps sleeping uses up your seratonin and other chemicals and therefor uses up emotions. my emotions are what enable me to feel pleasure. Without them I feel bleh. So too much sleep possibly creates less of these essential chemicals for my actual day. if sleep deprevation helps then I am willing to try it.
Posted by Cindylou on August 5, 2001, at 20:30:06
In reply to Re: 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression? » nutsy, posted by adamie on August 5, 2001, at 17:53:07
I notice the SAME thing adamie mentions here -- it seems that if I sleep longer than 8 hours my depression is worse! I wasn't sure if this was just a coincidence or not, but now that someone else says they have the same thing happen, I am convinced it is true.
I also remember hearing about the study which showed sleep deprivation helping depression -- I think they had the subjects sleep only 3 hours for a couple nights in a row, and it did help their depression, however it was only a temporary help (since most people can't live on 3 hours of sleep a night.)
Still, I'm glad this subject is mentioned -- I am going to limit my sleep to 7 hours from now on!
-cindy
> > I had read once about forcing no sleep for one day and then subjects had a lifting of depression once back in normal sleep patterns.
> >
> > Anyone try this? >
>
> this seems very interesting.
>
> I know due to my experience that the amount of sleep I have can effect my depression. It seems sometimes when I sleep more than 8 hours I feel worse the next time I wake up.
>
> Normally I wake up 3-4 times whenever I am in bed sleeping and then have to go back to sleep. Say I slept for 7 hours when I woke up my 2nd time, and I somewhat feel a bit okay. but I am extremely tired and brain dead of course due to the depression so I cant wake myself up by thinking. I go back to sleep then I wake up 2 hours later... and I feel worse. it is strange.
>
> One possibility for this occurance in me is that perhaps sleeping uses up your seratonin and other chemicals and therefor uses up emotions. my emotions are what enable me to feel pleasure. Without them I feel bleh. So too much sleep possibly creates less of these essential chemicals for my actual day. if sleep deprevation helps then I am willing to try it.
Posted by sl on August 5, 2001, at 21:12:24
In reply to 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression?, posted by nutsy on August 5, 2001, at 17:46:01
I've tried. Er, not for 24 hours, but when I didn't sleep well the night before, I purposely stayed up til 11 or 12 so I wouldn't be in an odd sleep pattern and I'd hoped to sleep better that way. It didn't work, and the sleep deprivation made my depression worse. Last time I was sleep deprived at home, my mom thought I was having a nervous breakdown. :(
sl
> I had read once about forcing no sleep for one day and then subjects had a lifting of depression once back in normal sleep patterns.
>
> Anyone try this? >
Posted by MM on August 6, 2001, at 5:16:09
In reply to Re: 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression?, posted by sl on August 5, 2001, at 21:12:24
I've read that sleep deprivation has an anti-depressant effect. I think it's one of the theories on bipolar disorder too. When a bipolar is in the depressive stage, they might stay up all night, then get into the manic or hypomanic stage.
I also experience increased depression when I sleep for longer than 9 hours (in my case) and increased tiredness as well.
Posted by super on August 6, 2001, at 11:06:00
In reply to Re: 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression?, posted by MM on August 6, 2001, at 5:16:09
Agreed. I've found that, even if I'm a little tired during the day, my mood is much better if I get 7 hours than if I get 9. And when I did have major depression, I would purposefully deprive myself of sleep to set off hypomania.
> I've read that sleep deprivation has an anti-depressant effect. I think it's one of the theories on bipolar disorder too. When a bipolar is in the depressive stage, they might stay up all night, then get into the manic or hypomanic stage.
> I also experience increased depression when I sleep for longer than 9 hours (in my case) and increased tiredness as well.
Posted by paxvox on August 6, 2001, at 11:16:22
In reply to Re: 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression?, posted by super on August 6, 2001, at 11:06:00
Strange stuff! I concur with the sleeping TOO MUCH (or sleeping LATER than your normal rising time)will throw you into a willy! (like that? :)
However, all LACK of sleep does is make me feel like a zombie, and increase my anxiety level. This is especially true if you obsess on "getting to sleep" as I sometimes do. Clearly, sleep quantity and quality is a major life-effecting factor. This is exacerbated when we have our chemicals all awack. Solution? I don't know, except experiment with getting up at the same time every day and going to bed at the same time.
Posted by Cam W. on August 6, 2001, at 11:46:09
In reply to 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression?, posted by nutsy on August 5, 2001, at 17:46:01
Nutsy - There is some scientific evidence that sleep deprivation for 24h does have some temporary antidepressant effect. In depression, especially the situational (reactive) sub-type. The internal wake/sleep clock is disrupted by the depression, leading to the insomnia. Staying awake 24h seems to (temporarily) reset this clock, relieving some other depressive symptoms, as well as the insomnia.
A slower way to try to reset your internal clock is to try to go to bed an hour earlier than you had been with the insomnia. For example, if you can't get to sleep until 2am, then do some tiring activity at about 8pm (to give your body time to let the adrenaline from the exercise to metabolize) and try to head to bed at midnight, hoping to be asleep by 1am. Every couple of nights move the time you exercise and sleep by an hour. This can work in some instances of depression with insomnia.
You also have to make sure that you get up an hour earlier each time you adjust your bedtime.
This is not easy; I have tried it and it does seem to temporarily work, but taking zaleplon (Starnoc™ or Sonata™-sp?) or other hypnotic is easier. But, if you are into real "natural" therapies, the above is an option.
my 2˘ - Cam
Posted by adamie on August 6, 2001, at 12:11:11
In reply to Re: 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression?, posted by super on August 6, 2001, at 11:06:00
> Agreed. I've found that, even if I'm a little tired during the day, my mood is much better if I get 7 hours than if I get 9. And when I did have major depression, I would purposefully deprive myself of sleep to set off hypomania.
>
> > I've read that sleep deprivation has an anti-depressant effect. I think it's one of the theories on bipolar disorder too. When a bipolar is in the depressive stage, they might stay up all night, then get into the manic or hypomanic stage.
> > I also experience increased depression when I sleep for longer than 9 hours (in my case) and increased tiredness as well.Far too many times during this depression I have sleeped 9 hours or so. Less sleep for me now. I hope to see a bit of an effect soon.
Posted by J. Lester on August 6, 2001, at 13:04:00
In reply to 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression?, posted by nutsy on August 5, 2001, at 17:46:01
Sleep deprivation works. But only temporary until you sleep next night. I had to stay several times without sleep thru the whole night. Next day I felt undepressed. I felt great. At the same time your're feeling completely tired, dizzy, and sleepy like zombie. But the mood is wonderful. It works better than any antidepressant and quick. I liked it so much that even thought of doing it intentionally.
Posted by Edward on August 6, 2001, at 14:13:03
In reply to 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression?, posted by nutsy on August 5, 2001, at 17:46:01
> I had read once about forcing no sleep for one day and then subjects had a lifting of depression once back in normal sleep patterns.
>
> Anyone try this? >Yes... one night I just couldn't cope with having to get up next morning, so I stayed up listening to Wagner. The next day I felt much more emotional and talkative. Every few hours I got a burst of energy, so I didn't feel tired for most of the day. The best thing was that my anxiety completely disappeared. Normally I always have a certain level of nervousness or wariness; that day I could walk down the street without being scared by a single person. The downsides were a decrease in my ability to concentrate (which is normally quite poor anyway) and half hour periods of exhaustion. I was up for about 36 hours in total.
Coffee is not advisable if you are attempting to stay up for this long: the lift in energy is followed by almost overwhelming tiredness, during which it is hell to stay awake.
Posted by Ted on August 6, 2001, at 17:05:55
In reply to 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression?, posted by nutsy on August 5, 2001, at 17:46:01
This is well documented for unipolar depression. However, it is unadvised for those with bipolar disorder (like me) for obvious reasons -- it can trigger a manic episode. I get really whacked out with sleep deprivation.
Ted
> I had read once about forcing no sleep for one day and then subjects had a lifting of depression once back in normal sleep patterns.
>
> Anyone try this? >
Posted by Mitch on August 7, 2001, at 9:35:38
In reply to Re: 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression? » nutsy, posted by Cam W. on August 6, 2001, at 11:46:09
> Nutsy - There is some scientific evidence that sleep deprivation for 24h does have some temporary antidepressant effect. In depression, especially the situational (reactive) sub-type. The internal wake/sleep clock is disrupted by the depression, leading to the insomnia. Staying awake 24h seems to (temporarily) reset this clock, relieving some other depressive symptoms, as well as the insomnia.
>
> A slower way to try to reset your internal clock is to try to go to bed an hour earlier than you had been with the insomnia. For example, if you can't get to sleep until 2am, then do some tiring activity at about 8pm (to give your body time to let the adrenaline from the exercise to metabolize) and try to head to bed at midnight, hoping to be asleep by 1am. Every couple of nights move the time you exercise and sleep by an hour. This can work in some instances of depression with insomnia.
>
> You also have to make sure that you get up an hour earlier each time you adjust your bedtime.
>
> This is not easy; I have tried it and it does seem to temporarily work, but taking zaleplon (Starnoc™ or Sonata™-sp?) or other hypnotic is easier. But, if you are into real "natural" therapies, the above is an option.
>
> my 2˘ - CamCam W.
This is quite strange, but I have noticed that during different parts of my three-week mood cycles that my sleeping time does tend to "advance" or "retard". I do generally feel better on days when I got to sleep earlier in the nite. I have been in a little of a low the last couple of days and I have noticed I am staying up later....
Thanks for that info.Mitch
Posted by Cecilia on August 8, 2001, at 3:35:32
In reply to 24 hour sleep deprivation for depression?, posted by nutsy on August 5, 2001, at 17:46:01
> I had read once about forcing no sleep for one day and then subjects had a lifting of depression once back in normal sleep patterns.
>
> Anyone try this? >I worked nights for 15 years and definitely didn`t notice sleep deprivation having any antidepressant effects.
This is the end of the thread.
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