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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PattiJo on July 21, 2001, at 17:46:25
I have had problems with repetitive musical tunes going through my head 24/7 since December 2000. I pick up tunes when I listen to them and also seem to pick up tunes that I haven't heard in years. The only time that I don't have these tunes going over and over in my mind, is when I am engaged in conversation or watching TV or listening to a radio. I have had an MRI (which was negative), seen an ear specialist, and seen a psychiatrist--none of them can give me any answers. I do not have any symptoms of OCD. I was on Ambien for over a year and have some suspicions that it is related to the Ambien. I have been off of the Ambien for eight weeks and the music is still playing. Will the music ever stop? Please help. Thanks.
Posted by Mitch on July 22, 2001, at 17:52:58
In reply to Obsessive Musical Tunes, posted by PattiJo on July 21, 2001, at 17:46:25
Oh boy, have we have had some talks here about this before, trust me! I experience the same exact phenomenon, and some believe it to be temporal lobe epilepsy (to me it is a suspicion not a conviction).
An MRI might not catch it-have you had an EEG? I had an EEG and it was negative but not an MRI! There is one thing that definitely makes it worse (for me and some others anyhow) and that is SSRi antidepressants. These are also good for OCD, which is why I don't think it is OCD. You wouldn't also be taking one of those by chance would you??
If I "doseup" on an SSRi (we are talking say 25mg of Zoloft or 10mg of Prozac) it can get very loud and also more repetitive and the same song gets stuck longer. It is like "sampling" or a snippet or a lyrical line that just keeps going onandonandon. Hell, I can wake up with a stupid line running through my head. Interestingly, I just got some Depakote added to my Neurontin and Klonopin and I notice it is a lot quieter...
Maybe the temporal lobe thing isn't a bunch of crap after all...
Mitch
> I have had problems with repetitive musical tunes going through my head 24/7 since December 2000. I pick up tunes when I listen to them and also seem to pick up tunes that I haven't heard in years. The only time that I don't have these tunes going over and over in my mind, is when I am engaged in conversation or watching TV or listening to a radio. I have had an MRI (which was negative), seen an ear specialist, and seen a psychiatrist--none of them can give me any answers. I do not have any symptoms of OCD. I was on Ambien for over a year and have some suspicions that it is related to the Ambien. I have been off of the Ambien for eight weeks and the music is still playing. Will the music ever stop? Please help. Thanks.
Posted by PattiJo on July 23, 2001, at 21:06:35
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes » PattiJo, posted by Mitch on July 22, 2001, at 17:52:58
Hi, Mitch,
Thanks for your help. I am glad to hear that I am not the only person with this problem. It seems that whenever I tell someone about it, they look at me like I am crazy. I had one physician (the ear specialist) ask me if I heard voices, which has never been a problem for me. I am afraid to tell anyone about it because of the responses I have been getting. There is certainly a sense of loneliness about this symptom. Two years ago, I had a depressive episode and tried all kinds of medications (Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin,Serzone, etc.) but they either didn't work or I suffered from side effects so No I am not on any SSRI's or any medications. Have you ever tried Luvox? They say that that medication is for OCD--but again, I don't think it's OCD. It would be nice to know how many people suffer from this condition so some research could be done on it. I have heard from somewhere that it could be a result of a seizure--but I have no history of seizures, but I suppose that doesn't mean that you couldn't have a seizure and not know about it. Since you're on Depakote and Neurontin, does that mean you have a bipolar disorder or a seizure disorder? Thanks for the idea of an EEG--right now I am sick of doctors and tests, but if the music doesn't go away soon, I may be desperate enough to try again. Again, thanks for responding.
Patti
Posted by Mitch on July 24, 2001, at 1:15:30
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes-response to Mitch, posted by PattiJo on July 23, 2001, at 21:06:35
Patti,
I REALLY don't think it is OCD either. Luvox and other SSRi meds make it *WORSE*. I wouldn't get too worried about it though. I am not saying you shouldn't get it investigated, but given that many folks have this sort of thing go on all the time doesn't necessarily mean it is pathological. Maybe we just have a yen for music? I am a music freak and play music all the time. Perhaps we are right-brain dominant folks with great musical memories?? It really depends on how distressed you are about it.
Yes, I have been diagnosed as bipolarII and have seen a neurologist once that gave me the EEG and wanted further tests done because he was convinced there was possible seizure activity (temporal lobe and/or frontal lobe) going on-although I wonder if I was just an interesting lab rat to check out.
Have you tried NOT listening to ANY music for a couple of days and see how it affects it?? I know that if I try that it helps. It is just like my memory keeps "bouncing" the same tune about, and it gets on my nerves. It is like dropping stones in a pond and you get all of the little wavelets that disturb the reflection in it-it just takes longer than most folks to settle down and clear up?? Or on the other hand if I get something playing in there that I am getting tired of listening to (typically 8-15 second snippets of the same thing over and over) I will sometimes *consciously* switch the tune to something else (I would prefer to hear for a change!) just for the hell of it and then I am hung-up with a different one for a while!).
I am trying to lighten the subject up as much as possible on purpose-because it does bother me at times as well and it does make me wonder given the level of technology we have now if it isn't our ENVIRONMENT (continuous music on demand day and nite) that is creating a problem that wouldn't be there otherwise. Hey, just 100 years ago there wasn't even a radio to listen to!
Mitch
> Hi, Mitch,
>
> Thanks for your help. I am glad to hear that I am not the only person with this problem. It seems that whenever I tell someone about it, they look at me like I am crazy. I had one physician (the ear specialist) ask me if I heard voices, which has never been a problem for me. I am afraid to tell anyone about it because of the responses I have been getting. There is certainly a sense of loneliness about this symptom. Two years ago, I had a depressive episode and tried all kinds of medications (Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin,Serzone, etc.) but they either didn't work or I suffered from side effects so No I am not on any SSRI's or any medications. Have you ever tried Luvox? They say that that medication is for OCD--but again, I don't think it's OCD. It would be nice to know how many people suffer from this condition so some research could be done on it. I have heard from somewhere that it could be a result of a seizure--but I have no history of seizures, but I suppose that doesn't mean that you couldn't have a seizure and not know about it. Since you're on Depakote and Neurontin, does that mean you have a bipolar disorder or a seizure disorder? Thanks for the idea of an EEG--right now I am sick of doctors and tests, but if the music doesn't go away soon, I may be desperate enough to try again. Again, thanks for responding.
>
> Patti
Posted by PattiJo on July 24, 2001, at 12:40:09
In reply to Obsessive Musical Tunes, posted by PattiJo on July 21, 2001, at 17:46:25
> Hi, Mitch,
After you made reference to having this discussion before on this site--I thought that I would check back and see what was discussed...I haven't had time to review all of them, but I did discover a post on February 15, 2000 by Blue Cheer that caught my attention. It sounds like it could be OCD (I am assuming that you would have other OCD symptoms with it) or it could be triggered by psychiatric medications, not to mention the other suggestions of a possible seizure. I guess what bothers me, is the possibility that these musical tunes could be triggered by medications. Does that mean that you stuck with it forever? Is it possible that the medications that trigger this condition should have warnings about it? Usually, most of the side effects that are listed, go away if you stop taking them. What if this is a side effect that never goes away? Shouldn't we be warned about it?
Well, I suppose I am "obsessing" about finding a cause--but I guess I am angry that it is possible that a medication may have caused it. Some days I can handle the music, other days, I want to shoot myself in the head--No, I will never intentionally end my life, but that's how I feel sometimes.
I try to avoid listening to music, like you suggested, but it's hard to do. Music plays all day and every day outside my office door, for confidentially reasons.
Thank you for your insights.
Oh, by the way, I am a psychologist. I guess that is why I am so determined to find a cause. I have seen hundreds of people for treatment of mental illnesses and distress and have never heard of this condition--until my own experience with it. I have spoken to other mental health professions and it appears that they have not heard of it either. It must be a very rare condition since very little is known about it. Sounds like a good research project. I wish I had the time. Well, I might check out the research journals at a nearby university and see if I can find out anything more. You've been a big help to me.
Thanks,
Patti
Posted by Mitch on July 24, 2001, at 14:25:54
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes » PattiJo, posted by PattiJo on July 24, 2001, at 12:40:09
Patti,
Hi Patti,
I suppose it could be OCD. The main things about OCD however involve intrusive *thoughts* (not music) that provoke *rituals* to reduce the anxiety which causes distress to the afflicted individual. The more you talk about the distress it is causing you the more inclined the OCD hypothesis becomes. Perhaps it may be some new right-brained "flavor" of OCD. It rarely causes any real distress for me and come to think of it-I have had this for over 20 years. But some meds do definitely worsen it.
I hope you don't mind some questions:
1) Are you taking any meds now-and what are they?
2) When you had the MRI-was a neurologist involved?
3) Do you have a family history of epilepsy (frontal and temporal lobe E can be inherited).
4) Did you experience any head injury around the time you noticed it (or traffic accident)?
5)Are you taking any hormones/steroids (birth control, etc.)now that you weren't taking then or vice versa?
6) Could you describe the nature of the intrusive music more precisely-i.e. duration, frequency, intensity, etc.?It is quite possible that the Ambien modulated some receptor density differently and then when you discontinued it you had this problem. My guess is you have some underlying pre-existing proclivity for this which may have been exposed by the withdrawal of the Ambien.
I am currently taking a tiny dose of Zoloft 12.5mg for social anxiety/panic with Klonopin and I have cut that tiny bit of Zoloft in half and my pdoc added a low-dose of Depakote to my Neurontin and I must say that it is just very *faintly* there-much quieter. If you were setup with the MRI by your GP, I would ask your GP to refer you to a neurologist. If you already have consulted with a neurologist what opinion did he/she have?
Mitch
> > Hi, Mitch,
>
> After you made reference to having this discussion before on this site--I thought that I would check back and see what was discussed...I haven't had time to review all of them, but I did discover a post on February 15, 2000 by Blue Cheer that caught my attention. It sounds like it could be OCD (I am assuming that you would have other OCD symptoms with it) or it could be triggered by psychiatric medications, not to mention the other suggestions of a possible seizure. I guess what bothers me, is the possibility that these musical tunes could be triggered by medications. Does that mean that you stuck with it forever? Is it possible that the medications that trigger this condition should have warnings about it? Usually, most of the side effects that are listed, go away if you stop taking them. What if this is a side effect that never goes away? Shouldn't we be warned about it?
>
> Well, I suppose I am "obsessing" about finding a cause--but I guess I am angry that it is possible that a medication may have caused it. Some days I can handle the music, other days, I want to shoot myself in the head--No, I will never intentionally end my life, but that's how I feel sometimes.
>
> I try to avoid listening to music, like you suggested, but it's hard to do. Music plays all day and every day outside my office door, for confidentially reasons.
>
> Thank you for your insights.
>
> Oh, by the way, I am a psychologist. I guess that is why I am so determined to find a cause. I have seen hundreds of people for treatment of mental illnesses and distress and have never heard of this condition--until my own experience with it. I have spoken to other mental health professions and it appears that they have not heard of it either. It must be a very rare condition since very little is known about it. Sounds like a good research project. I wish I had the time. Well, I might check out the research journals at a nearby university and see if I can find out anything more. You've been a big help to me.
>
> Thanks,
> Patti
Posted by PattiJo on July 24, 2001, at 16:28:52
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes » PattiJo, posted by Mitch on July 24, 2001, at 14:25:54
> Mitch, in response to your questions: two years ago when it was discovered that I could not tolerate SRI's, the psychiatrist put me on Ambien to help me sleep and Ativan to diminish anxiety. My anxiety was pretty low level--no panic attacks. I took this medication since that time, but stopped the Ambien eight to ten weeks ago when I started to investigate the music thing. I kept taking the Ativan (1mg a day) because it helped to keep my irritation down regarding the music and the music didn't seem as loud or intrusive. There are days that I go without taking ATivan, but after three days of the constant music and no Ativan, I can't stand it so I relent and take the Ativan. Those are the only medications that I have been on in the past two years. I am not on any hormones. There is no history of seizures in my family. I have never had a head injury. The MRI was ordered by the ear, nose and throat specialist. I have not seen a neurologist--again, because I figured why bother
> no one seems to have heard of this disorder and since the MRI didn't show anything--I figured the neurologist wouldn't find anything.As for the music, it's there whenever it's quiet. It started last December and has been there every day since. I remember that I did have an incident of music that lasted for a couple of weeks last summer, but then it disappeared and reapppeared in December--never stopping. It's there when I wake up in the middle of the night. It's there when I wake up in the morning and continues throughout the morning until I am engaged with my clients--then it's not there. It's there when I drive home at night. I have difficulty sleeping at night because of the music. If I have not taken an Ativan, it can be quite loud and intrusive. When I take Ativan it's quieter and I can handle the music--it's more in the backqround. The music can be something that I picked up from the radio or something that I haven't heard in years. It ranges from Christian music to classical. The whole song is played--it's like I hear it exactly as recorded. I feel like it is playing somewhere back in my brain where I can't gain access to it. I don't feel anxious or depressed--except when the music gets to me. That is why I have a hard time believing that it's OCD--my life is pretty good right now--stress free (as stress free as life can be). I think the reason why the music is so distressing to me, is because I enjoy the quiet--listening to the wind blow, birds sing, I enjoy meditating--but now my mind is cluttered with music--like there is no room for quietness, sometimes no room for my thoughts. I am an intuitive person--interestingly, when the music first started to bother me--my intuition told me that the medication was causing it--I remember distinctly telling my doctor that I honestly believed that the medication was causing the music. But hey, who knows, maybe I am neurotic and since I am such a "unique" individual (LOL)my anxiety, which I am not aware of, is manifesting itself in the form of music. I've never considered myself a right brain person--I am probably pretty balanced between right/left. Gee, maybe my left brain will kick in and I'll start counting everything. Life is certainly interesting.
Patti
> Hi Patti,
>
> I suppose it could be OCD. The main things about OCD however involve intrusive *thoughts* (not music) that provoke *rituals* to reduce the anxiety which causes distress to the afflicted individual. The more you talk about the distress it is causing you the more inclined the OCD hypothesis becomes. Perhaps it may be some new right-brained "flavor" of OCD. It rarely causes any real distress for me and come to think of it-I have had this for over 20 years. But some meds do definitely worsen it.
>
> I hope you don't mind some questions:
> 1) Are you taking any meds now-and what are they?
> 2) When you had the MRI-was a neurologist involved?
> 3) Do you have a family history of epilepsy (frontal and temporal lobe E can be inherited).
> 4) Did you experience any head injury around the time you noticed it (or traffic accident)?
> 5)Are you taking any hormones/steroids (birth control, etc.)now that you weren't taking then or vice versa?
> 6) Could you describe the nature of the intrusive music more precisely-i.e. duration, frequency, intensity, etc.?
>
> It is quite possible that the Ambien modulated some receptor density differently and then when you discontinued it you had this problem. My guess is you have some underlying pre-existing proclivity for this which may have been exposed by the withdrawal of the Ambien.
>
> I am currently taking a tiny dose of Zoloft 12.5mg for social anxiety/panic with Klonopin and I have cut that tiny bit of Zoloft in half and my pdoc added a low-dose of Depakote to my Neurontin and I must say that it is just very *faintly* there-much quieter. If you were setup with the MRI by your GP, I would ask your GP to refer you to a neurologist. If you already have consulted with a neurologist what opinion did he/she have?
>
> Mitch
>
> > > Hi, Mitch,
> >
> > After you made reference to having this discussion before on this site--I thought that I would check back and see what was discussed...I haven't had time to review all of them, but I did discover a post on February 15, 2000 by Blue Cheer that caught my attention. It sounds like it could be OCD (I am assuming that you would have other OCD symptoms with it) or it could be triggered by psychiatric medications, not to mention the other suggestions of a possible seizure. I guess what bothers me, is the possibility that these musical tunes could be triggered by medications. Does that mean that you stuck with it forever? Is it possible that the medications that trigger this condition should have warnings about it? Usually, most of the side effects that are listed, go away if you stop taking them. What if this is a side effect that never goes away? Shouldn't we be warned about it?
> >
> > Well, I suppose I am "obsessing" about finding a cause--but I guess I am angry that it is possible that a medication may have caused it. Some days I can handle the music, other days, I want to shoot myself in the head--No, I will never intentionally end my life, but that's how I feel sometimes.
> >
> > I try to avoid listening to music, like you suggested, but it's hard to do. Music plays all day and every day outside my office door, for confidentially reasons.
> >
> > Thank you for your insights.
> >
> > Oh, by the way, I am a psychologist. I guess that is why I am so determined to find a cause. I have seen hundreds of people for treatment of mental illnesses and distress and have never heard of this condition--until my own experience with it. I have spoken to other mental health professions and it appears that they have not heard of it either. It must be a very rare condition since very little is known about it. Sounds like a good research project. I wish I had the time. Well, I might check out the research journals at a nearby university and see if I can find out anything more. You've been a big help to me.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Patti
Posted by Mitch on July 25, 2001, at 0:24:48
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes » Mitch, posted by PattiJo on July 24, 2001, at 16:28:52
Patti,
I think you should see a neurologist (especially an epileptologist). You mentioned something very important-you said you *found* that you are *intolerant* of SSRi's. That is one "red flag" because serotonergic meds tend to aggravate temporal lobe problems and the other is the Ativan helps to diminish the symptoms-benzodiazepines have anticonvulsant properties. I find it interesting that you can listen to an entire song! I have had that experience as well, bu it tends to be the exception not the rule. One thing that is a little comical-if I try to "switch" the song-sometimes I can hear both of the songs playing at the same time for a while!
see a neuro-
Mitch
Posted by MB on July 25, 2001, at 0:53:43
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes » PattiJo, posted by Mitch on July 22, 2001, at 17:52:58
< snip >
> There is one thing that definitely makes it worse (for me and some others anyhow) and that is SSRi antidepressants. These are also good for OCD, which is why I don't think it is OCD. You wouldn't also be taking one of those by chance would you??
< snip >
I get this too. SSRIs definitely make it worse. So do stimulants. I don't think it is OCD at all, either. Personally, I think it is related to tic disorder. Whenever it happens, I also have facial and diaphragmatic tics that go along with it. For me, the music isn't an obsession. It's like a tic, only instead of moving a muscle over and over, I say a word or "listen" to a tune in my head over and over. It's not a hallucination, either...it's definitely self generated. Is this what it's like for you guys? I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. I used to have echolalia as a kid, and it feels identical, only the sound isn't comming out of my mouth, it's happening in my head.
Posted by Mitch on July 25, 2001, at 14:54:40
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes » Mitch, posted by MB on July 25, 2001, at 0:53:43
> < snip >
>
> > There is one thing that definitely makes it worse (for me and some others anyhow) and that is SSRi antidepressants. These are also good for OCD, which is why I don't think it is OCD. You wouldn't also be taking one of those by chance would you??
>
> < snip >
>
> I get this too. SSRIs definitely make it worse. So do stimulants. I don't think it is OCD at all, either. Personally, I think it is related to tic disorder. Whenever it happens, I also have facial and diaphragmatic tics that go along with it. For me, the music isn't an obsession. It's like a tic, only instead of moving a muscle over and over, I say a word or "listen" to a tune in my head over and over. It's not a hallucination, either...it's definitely self generated. Is this what it's like for you guys? I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. I used to have echolalia as a kid, and it feels identical, only the sound isn't comming out of my mouth, it's happening in my head.
Yes, in my case it does sound very much like that. I don't get the facial corollary, however I DID used to (and still do at times) have echolalia when I was a teenager , also about the time the "scale illusions" started-which is very suspicious for temporal lobe epilepsy. We may not be talking about exactly the "same" thing, but I believe it is coming from the same part of the brain. Oh another thing I found out from a little researching-people with TLE may sometimes have "echopraxia" which is imitation of another person's behaviour (sometimes unconsciously), I also have done that. It is like instead of repeating the last word of someone's else's sentence, you start talking like them (mannerisms and accents, etc.) or posturing like them-I have done that too....I will look through any followups when I get back on Sunday,
Mitch
Posted by Simcha on July 25, 2001, at 15:30:33
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes » MB, posted by Mitch on July 25, 2001, at 14:54:40
OMG! I've had this too!!! Maybe I have more compulsive behaviors than I thought. Thank God I'm starting an SSRI maybe I'll find out what it is like to be normal.
I had no idea that I was depressed most of my life until I started my first AD, Effexor, and all of the sudden I woke up one morning and I wanted to be alive.
I thought that everyone woke up wanting to sleep more and wanting to be dead!@!! I now understand that this is not so.
I always thought everyone imitated the mannerisms of people they liked. Also I thought that everyone had music running through their heads that they could not get rid of..... This has been lessened since therapy..... Gee, I guess "normies" don't have these obsessive/compulsive characteristics, huh? Well I'm amazed again. It'll be amazing recovering from all of this so that I can see what I can do unencombered by these obsessions and my depression. Hmmm...
> > < snip >
> >
> > > There is one thing that definitely makes it worse (for me and some others anyhow) and that is SSRi antidepressants. These are also good for OCD, which is why I don't think it is OCD. You wouldn't also be taking one of those by chance would you??
> >
> > < snip >
> >
> > I get this too. SSRIs definitely make it worse. So do stimulants. I don't think it is OCD at all, either. Personally, I think it is related to tic disorder. Whenever it happens, I also have facial and diaphragmatic tics that go along with it. For me, the music isn't an obsession. It's like a tic, only instead of moving a muscle over and over, I say a word or "listen" to a tune in my head over and over. It's not a hallucination, either...it's definitely self generated. Is this what it's like for you guys? I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. I used to have echolalia as a kid, and it feels identical, only the sound isn't comming out of my mouth, it's happening in my head.
>
>
> Yes, in my case it does sound very much like that. I don't get the facial corollary, however I DID used to (and still do at times) have echolalia when I was a teenager , also about the time the "scale illusions" started-which is very suspicious for temporal lobe epilepsy. We may not be talking about exactly the "same" thing, but I believe it is coming from the same part of the brain. Oh another thing I found out from a little researching-people with TLE may sometimes have "echopraxia" which is imitation of another person's behaviour (sometimes unconsciously), I also have done that. It is like instead of repeating the last word of someone's else's sentence, you start talking like them (mannerisms and accents, etc.) or posturing like them-I have done that too....
>
> I will look through any followups when I get back on Sunday,
>
> Mitch
Posted by MB on July 25, 2001, at 16:22:31
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes » MB, posted by Mitch on July 25, 2001, at 14:54:40
> Yes, in my case it does sound very much like that. I don't get the facial corollary, however I DID used to (and still do at times) have echolalia when I was a teenager , also about the time the "scale illusions" started-which is very suspicious for temporal lobe epilepsy. We may not be talking about exactly the "same" thing, but I believe it is coming from the same part of the brain. Oh another thing I found out from a little researching-people with TLE may sometimes have "echopraxia" which is imitation of another person's behaviour (sometimes unconsciously), I also have done that. It is like instead of repeating the last word of someone's else's sentence, you start talking like them (mannerisms and accents, etc.) or posturing like them-I have done that too....
>
> I will look through any followups when I get back on Sunday,
>
> MitchWhen you talk about "scale illusions, are you talking about illusions about the sizes of things (like putting on the wrong glasses? If so, I don't think I've had that (yet, thank God!).
Posted by jojo on July 25, 2001, at 18:43:11
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes-response to Mitch, posted by PattiJo on July 23, 2001, at 21:06:35
> Hi, Mitch,
>
> Thanks for your help. I am glad to hear that I am not the only person with this problem. It seems that whenever I tell someone about it, they look at me like I am crazy. I had one physician (the ear specialist) ask me if I heard voices, which has never been a problem for me. I am afraid to tell anyone about it because of the responses I have been getting. There is certainly a sense of loneliness about this symptom. Two years ago, I had a depressive episode and tried all kinds of medications (Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin,Serzone, etc.) but they either didn't work or I suffered from side effects so No I am not on any SSRI's or any medications. Have you ever tried Luvox? They say that that medication is for OCD--but again, I don't think it's OCD. It would be nice to know how many people suffer from this condition so some research could be done on it. I have heard from somewhere that it could be a result of a seizure--but I have no history of seizures, but I suppose that doesn't mean that you couldn't have a seizure and not know about it. Since you're on Depakote and Neurontin, does that mean you have a bipolar disorder or a seizure disorder? Thanks for the idea of an EEG--right now I am sick of doctors and tests, but if the music doesn't go away soon, I may be desperate enough to try again. Again, thanks for responding.
>
> PattiThis symptom may be similar to what you are talking about, or it may be completely
different, but I have had it all of my life. I don't know a better way to describe it other
than "doing music". I don't hear it, and I think that generally I'm sub-vocalizing it. Its
outward expression in humming, which I have also done all of my life.
"Doing " the music is something like suppressed humming, and possibly only goes
away when I am focused on something. As one would expect, it is decreased by
effective antidepressants, generally SSRIs.
jojo
Posted by PattiJo on July 27, 2001, at 22:48:33
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes » PattiJo, posted by Mitch on July 25, 2001, at 0:24:48
> Patti,
>
> I think you should see a neurologist (especially an epileptologist). You mentioned something very important-you said you *found* that you are *intolerant* of SSRi's. That is one "red flag" because serotonergic meds tend to aggravate temporal lobe problems and the other is the Ativan helps to diminish the symptoms-benzodiazepines have anticonvulsant properties. I find it interesting that you can listen to an entire song! I have had that experience as well, bu it tends to be the exception not the rule. One thing that is a little comical-if I try to "switch" the song-sometimes I can hear both of the songs playing at the same time for a while!
>
> see a neuro-
>
> MitchThanks, for your suggestion. I see my doctor the first part of August and will see if she can refer me to a neurologist.
Patti
Posted by Mitch on July 28, 2001, at 19:28:48
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes » Mitch, posted by MB on July 25, 2001, at 16:22:31
>
> > Yes, in my case it does sound very much like that. I don't get the facial corollary, however I DID used to (and still do at times) have echolalia when I was a teenager , also about the time the "scale illusions" started-which is very suspicious for temporal lobe epilepsy. We may not be talking about exactly the "same" thing, but I believe it is coming from the same part of the brain. Oh another thing I found out from a little researching-people with TLE may sometimes have "echopraxia" which is imitation of another person's behaviour (sometimes unconsciously), I also have done that. It is like instead of repeating the last word of someone's else's sentence, you start talking like them (mannerisms and accents, etc.) or posturing like them-I have done that too....
> >
> > I will look through any followups when I get back on Sunday,
> >
> > Mitch
>
> When you talk about "scale illusions, are you talking about illusions about the sizes of things (like putting on the wrong glasses? If so, I don't think I've had that (yet, thank God!).Well, not exactly (although it is a little like that). It is more like sitting on a couch or something and suddenly the room seems very very large and you feel very very large as well. I guess it can go the other way-but I have always had the "huge" or "cavernous" type illusions. Mostly inside, but sometimes outside.
Mitch
Posted by MB on July 28, 2001, at 22:58:54
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes » MB, posted by Mitch on July 28, 2001, at 19:28:48
> >
> > > Yes, in my case it does sound very much like that. I don't get the facial corollary, however I DID used to (and still do at times) have echolalia when I was a teenager , also about the time the "scale illusions" started-which is very suspicious for temporal lobe epilepsy. We may not be talking about exactly the "same" thing, but I believe it is coming from the same part of the brain. Oh another thing I found out from a little researching-people with TLE may sometimes have "echopraxia" which is imitation of another person's behaviour (sometimes unconsciously), I also have done that. It is like instead of repeating the last word of someone's else's sentence, you start talking like them (mannerisms and accents, etc.) or posturing like them-I have done that too....
> > >
> > > I will look through any followups when I get back on Sunday,
> > >
> > > Mitch
> >
> > When you talk about "scale illusions, are you talking about illusions about the sizes of things (like putting on the wrong glasses? If so, I don't think I've had that (yet, thank God!).
>
> Well, not exactly (although it is a little like that). It is more like sitting on a couch or something and suddenly the room seems very very large and you feel very very large as well. I guess it can go the other way-but I have always had the "huge" or "cavernous" type illusions. Mostly inside, but sometimes outside.
>
> MitchI remember sitting in class as an eighth grader and realizing, suddenly, that everything was just plain weird...like it wasn't real...none of it, not the classroom, not me, not the students, etc. It was really freaky. I remember thinking, "well, this is it, I've finally flipped." I remember actually wondering if I was going to wake up from the experience to find it was a dream. The size didn't seem wrong, but the whole experience seemed wrong or just plain "off."
Posted by MM on July 28, 2001, at 23:20:01
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes » Mitch, posted by MB on July 28, 2001, at 22:58:54
How suggestive of TLE is scale illusions (like does having them mean almost definitely, or just a possibility)? Zo said her TLE didn't show up on an EEG, so I'm thinking of not even getting one, as she said it's fairly common that TLE doesn't show up. I get those scale illusions maybe a few times a month (I'll be lying in bed, feeling "weird" and feel like my bed is humungous and I'm really small, then a few seconds later my head will feel huge and my bed will feel small. IT alternates between the two, and i KNOW it's not REALLY happening, but it's sort of the sensation of it. It's hard to articulate, but your post sounds like what I get.) Does forgeting the meaning of words while on no meds suggest anything? I ask because as I posted this I had to change a sentence because I wasn't sure what "clench" meant. Just thought I'd ask heh.
Posted by Zo on July 29, 2001, at 0:36:37
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes-Mitch, posted by MM on July 28, 2001, at 23:20:01
> How suggestive of TLE is scale illusions (like does having them mean almost definitely, or just a possibility)
VERY suggestive. . .! I had it persistently as a child, and was just knocked out to see it discussed on the Mass Gen Neuro board as common to TLE. You'll find it mentioned on a few other web sites.
Here's a page, "Possible Temporal Lobe Symptoms"
http://www.pni.org/neuropsychiatry/seizures/ptls.html
& see Inset for TLE screening checklist.
Zo
Posted by MM on July 29, 2001, at 1:27:03
In reply to Re: Big and Small » MM, posted by Zo on July 29, 2001, at 0:36:37
Thanks for the link. I actually remembered (from it happening again now) that I had this persistantly as a child too, (had snow as well) but it always happend before I went to bed, so I probably forgot and didn't mention it to anyone, even tho it kinda scared me. I just thought, I guess this happens before I go to sleep.
Posted by Mitch on July 29, 2001, at 13:55:35
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes-Mitch, posted by MM on July 28, 2001, at 23:20:01
> How suggestive of TLE is scale illusions (like does having them mean almost definitely, or just a possibility)? Zo said her TLE didn't show up on an EEG, so I'm thinking of not even getting one, as she said it's fairly common that TLE doesn't show up. I get those scale illusions maybe a few times a month (I'll be lying in bed, feeling "weird" and feel like my bed is humungous and I'm really small, then a few seconds later my head will feel huge and my bed will feel small. IT alternates between the two, and i KNOW it's not REALLY happening, but it's sort of the sensation of it. It's hard to articulate, but your post sounds like what I get.) Does forgeting the meaning of words while on no meds suggest anything? I ask because as I posted this I had to change a sentence because I wasn't sure what "clench" meant. Just thought I'd ask heh.
Wow, what a trip! There is something to the forgetting meaning of words. I have that too at times. I remember when it was worse (before Neurontin-Depakote, etc.) and I could see a very common word or hear a very common word and repeat it consciously or unconsciously to myself and it would turn into some kind of meaningless mantra of sorts! It was like-is this English?? I have a theory that it may not necessarily be *seizures* or even *auras*, I wonder if it is an *interruption* of the connection between the left and right hemispheres of some kind. Because, when this happens everything is visual, tactile, etc. but the VERBAL *senses* just get all messed up. It is kind of like looking at a word and expecting it to be a picture of sorts. Don't know-it is weird for sure... I don't think it is just plain old "depersonalization" or "derealization". Don't know...Mitch
Posted by MM on July 30, 2001, at 14:16:30
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes-Mitch » MM, posted by Mitch on July 29, 2001, at 13:55:35
Hmm, the right/left brain interruption might make sense in my case. There was even a period of time where one of my pupils was pretty dialated (sp?) and the other was normal. Weird stuff.
Posted by Mitch on July 31, 2001, at 0:49:24
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes-Mitch, posted by MM on July 30, 2001, at 14:16:30
> Hmm, the right/left brain interruption might make sense in my case. There was even a period of time where one of my pupils was pretty dialated (sp?) and the other was normal. Weird stuff.
I never noticed that, but I definitely would get THAT checked out.
Mitch
Posted by MM on July 31, 2001, at 0:54:39
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes-Mitch » MM, posted by Mitch on July 31, 2001, at 0:49:24
It hasn't happend for a while, so I don't know if I can (plus I don't know if anyone would believe me without seeing it). It freaked me out tho.
Posted by Daveman on July 31, 2001, at 2:03:49
In reply to Re: Obsessive Musical Tunes-Mitch » Mitch, posted by MM on July 31, 2001, at 0:54:39
Hey Friends:
Even the most "normal" people I know have problems like this. Ever heard the joke, "Now, for the next 60 seconds, don't think about pink elephants!" What do you think about for those 60 seconds? Right.....
Some times, you just can't get a musical tune out of your head no matter what you do. Usually, it's a real bad one. Like that Macarena song, I couldn't get it out of my blasted head for weeks!
So let's cut ourselves a little slack on this one:)
Dave
Posted by Mitch on July 31, 2001, at 10:07:02
In reply to Pink Elephants:), posted by Daveman on July 31, 2001, at 2:03:49
> Hey Friends:
>
> Even the most "normal" people I know have problems like this. Ever heard the joke, "Now, for the next 60 seconds, don't think about pink elephants!" What do you think about for those 60 seconds? Right.....
>
> Some times, you just can't get a musical tune out of your head no matter what you do. Usually, it's a real bad one. Like that Macarena song, I couldn't get it out of my blasted head for weeks!
>
> So let's cut ourselves a little slack on this one:)
>
> DaveOh, I agree. It doesn't bother me enough to consider it "distressing". It is just a comical curiousity mainly. I am more interested in how our brain processes musical memories, etc. However, I guess for some folks it really gets bad or quite interesting.
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