![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sweetmarie on June 22, 2001, at 14:42:54
Anna here,You may have read my postings before, but if not I`ve got a bad case of treatment resistant depression.
Without going into a tedious list of all the meds I`ve been on, I`ll just say that I have been on LOTS. Also ECT. With the exception of Dothiepin (100% effective whilst I was on it, but failed to have any effect when I came off it and went back on ), I have had limited success in the meds I have tried. Over the past 3 years I have been very severely depressed with virtually no respite.
Currently I am hospitalised in a unit that specialises in treatment resistant depression, where I have been for 9 weeks now. I have been on a combination of Mirtazapine and Venlafaxine for 6 weeks now. This is actually irrelevant to my question, though.
Yesterday, I was speaking with the charge nurse, who told me that there was the `real possibility` that I wouldn`t get better than I am now (v. depressed). He actually said that 3 things were equally as likely to happen: 1) I would get better, 2) I would remain as ill as I am now (for the rest of my life), and 3) I would get worse.
I had actually managed to talk myself round to thinking that there WAS light at the end of the tunnel, but this has really kicked me in the teeth. I can`t stand the thought that there is no hope and that I may have to `adjust` my life according to my illness. I don`t mean that I want 100% happiness - I`d settle for continual mild depression. He seemed to be saying that even this may be outside the realms of possibility.
Has anyone got any thoughts? Should I throw in the towel now? CAN I get better? (note - I don`t say `will` I get better. I`ve learned not to ask that question.)
Dr Bob, if you`re reading this, do you have any thoughts on the matter?
Basically, this question is for anyone. Thoughts/remarks urgently required.
Cheers,
Anna.
Posted by tina on June 22, 2001, at 14:47:40
In reply to GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by sweetmarie on June 22, 2001, at 14:42:54
Jeez, I wish your nurse hadn't said all of that. What kind of care is that? You know what might make you feel better? Kicking that head nurse in the chops!
Seriously Anna, the o nly one who can decide if you'll get better is you. Don't listen to the naysayers, listen to your own heart. If you believed before that you would get better, then keep believing that and so will I.
sending you warm hugs
Tina
>
> Anna here,
>
> You may have read my postings before, but if not I`ve got a bad case of treatment resistant depression.
>
> Without going into a tedious list of all the meds I`ve been on, I`ll just say that I have been on LOTS. Also ECT. With the exception of Dothiepin (100% effective whilst I was on it, but failed to have any effect when I came off it and went back on ), I have had limited success in the meds I have tried. Over the past 3 years I have been very severely depressed with virtually no respite.
>
> Currently I am hospitalised in a unit that specialises in treatment resistant depression, where I have been for 9 weeks now. I have been on a combination of Mirtazapine and Venlafaxine for 6 weeks now. This is actually irrelevant to my question, though.
>
> Yesterday, I was speaking with the charge nurse, who told me that there was the `real possibility` that I wouldn`t get better than I am now (v. depressed). He actually said that 3 things were equally as likely to happen: 1) I would get better, 2) I would remain as ill as I am now (for the rest of my life), and 3) I would get worse.
>
> I had actually managed to talk myself round to thinking that there WAS light at the end of the tunnel, but this has really kicked me in the teeth. I can`t stand the thought that there is no hope and that I may have to `adjust` my life according to my illness. I don`t mean that I want 100% happiness - I`d settle for continual mild depression. He seemed to be saying that even this may be outside the realms of possibility.
>
> Has anyone got any thoughts? Should I throw in the towel now? CAN I get better? (note - I don`t say `will` I get better. I`ve learned not to ask that question.)
>
> Dr Bob, if you`re reading this, do you have any thoughts on the matter?
>
> Basically, this question is for anyone. Thoughts/remarks urgently required.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anna.
Posted by susan C on June 22, 2001, at 18:30:34
In reply to GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by sweetmarie on June 22, 2001, at 14:42:54
> Can you get better? Do you need to accept what is happening? I still struggle with the fact that what I have is a life long illness. In a small way, it is like diabetes, something that you may be able to control to a certain point, but it will be with you always. I am applying for SSDI and finally told my husband I could no longer fill out any forms they sent me, I got so depressed. Then I had the evaluation appointment. He said...this is like asking a person who has two crushed legs to walk two miles to an appointment. My friend, you and I have one of the most difficult illnesses. But I remind you and I remind myself, "it" is just that, an illness. It is not your fault. And there is always something else to investigate. don't give up.
> Anna here,
>
> You may have read my postings before, but if not I`ve got a bad case of treatment resistant depression.
>
> Without going into a tedious list of all the meds I`ve been on, I`ll just say that I have been on LOTS. Also ECT. With the exception of Dothiepin (100% effective whilst I was on it, but failed to have any effect when I came off it and went back on ), I have had limited success in the meds I have tried. Over the past 3 years I have been very severely depressed with virtually no respite.
>
> Currently I am hospitalised in a unit that specialises in treatment resistant depression, where I have been for 9 weeks now. I have been on a combination of Mirtazapine and Venlafaxine for 6 weeks now. This is actually irrelevant to my question, though.
>
> Yesterday, I was speaking with the charge nurse, who told me that there was the `real possibility` that I wouldn`t get better than I am now (v. depressed). He actually said that 3 things were equally as likely to happen: 1) I would get better, 2) I would remain as ill as I am now (for the rest of my life), and 3) I would get worse.
>
> I had actually managed to talk myself round to thinking that there WAS light at the end of the tunnel, but this has really kicked me in the teeth. I can`t stand the thought that there is no hope and that I may have to `adjust` my life according to my illness. I don`t mean that I want 100% happiness - I`d settle for continual mild depression. He seemed to be saying that even this may be outside the realms of possibility.
>
> Has anyone got any thoughts? Should I throw in the towel now? CAN I get better? (note - I don`t say `will` I get better. I`ve learned not to ask that question.)
>
> Dr Bob, if you`re reading this, do you have any thoughts on the matter?
>
> Basically, this question is for anyone. Thoughts/remarks urgently required.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anna.
Posted by dana on June 22, 2001, at 22:26:14
In reply to Re: GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by susan C on June 22, 2001, at 18:30:34
This may seem trivial, but notice how you signed off in your posting..........CHEERS !
.....there is light at the end of the tunnel......there are things our own inner strengths can overcome, even if modern medicine fails...... don't ever give in to negative thoughts......... or negative people....they sap your energy....... I try every day to say to myself...(even during relapses........) I AM WELL AND I AM WHOLE ......sometimes it kicks in.....other times it doesn't...this may be a life long fight, but maybe we can treat it as a life long journey.... change our attitude to it.....Dana
Posted by Zo on June 23, 2001, at 0:57:34
In reply to Re: GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by dana on June 22, 2001, at 22:26:14
Every time I've felt like giving up, seems like either my pdoc or someone on the board comes up with some new little tweak. . or a new med comes out. . .or there's news of one being used in a different way. (No such thing as "off-label" to me!)
So: the *feeling* of having run out of things to try and the *reality* of it, I've learned, are two different things. And when the first gets real bad, it's time to look into the second. It really does seem like there's always one more thing to try. . .and cumulatively, the mix justs gets better and better. Though not always, you understand, at the rate *I* would choose!
Posted by Neal on June 23, 2001, at 1:56:20
In reply to GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by sweetmarie on June 22, 2001, at 14:42:54
Anna,
Have you ruled out ECT? Did it help when you previously had it? Ordinarily, I would not bring up ECT, except for the articles at the CBS news site about it. One of the articles says that ECT combined with meds has a decent success rate, at least in the short run. The articles are at: http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,283445-412,00.shtml
and at: http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,278534-412,00.shtml
Posted by ChrisK on June 23, 2001, at 4:06:14
In reply to GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by sweetmarie on June 22, 2001, at 14:42:54
Anna,
If you haven't already read it, please read my post above "There is Hope for Everyone." After 20 years, countless pdocs, even more meds and several hospital stays, I am feeling better. There is always hope that things will and can turn around. I never thought it possible in my case either but I am starting to become productive again. I'm trying to re-invent myself after suffering from depression for more than 20 years and it's not easy but it is better than the alternative.
No, it's not time to give up. There is Hope for everyone.
God Bless,
Chris
Posted by sweetmarie on June 23, 2001, at 7:00:17
In reply to Re: GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by ChrisK on June 23, 2001, at 4:06:14
> If you haven't already read it, please read my post above "There is Hope for Everyone." After 20 years, countless pdocs, even more meds and several hospital stays, I am feeling better. There is always hope that things will and can turn around. I never thought it possible in my case either but I am starting to become productive again. I'm trying to re-invent myself after suffering from depression for more than 20 years and it's not easy but it is better than the alternative.
>
> No, it's not time to give up. There is Hope for everyone.Thankyou Chris, and everyone else who has replied.
I have to admit to feeling very much worse since this interlude. I`m hoping that this feeling doesn`t persist, though. I guess that he was describing the `worst case scenario` so that I would be aware of it (does he not realise that depressed people automatically default to the worst case scenario anyway?). Still, he said it and there`s nothing I can do about it except that hope that, with time, I`ll stop hearing his words in my head every 5 minutes.
I still feel cross that he said it, especially when I had managed to pursuade myself of a possible silver lining (or at least a kind of greyish lining).
I`m still open to success stories - they will all be gratefully received.
Thanks,
Anna.
Posted by Maisy on June 23, 2001, at 8:01:01
In reply to GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by sweetmarie on June 22, 2001, at 14:42:54
I think that the only person who can determine
which of the three options will occur is you.
Don't ever give up and don't ever let a doc take
hope away from you. I had an uncle who was
severely depressed (his depression didn't start
until he was 65)and for years nothing worked,
not even repeat ECT treatment.
Then one day they started yet another new med
and bingo, he was better. He does not think that
it is the medication making him better, he thinks
he did it himself or else that whatever it was
that caused the depression just corrected itself.
(but he still takes his med though, he says, if it
aint broke don't fix it).Today, at 70, he is his
old self again. So there you go, a success story
when there seemed to be no hope. Hang in there!
Posted by geekUK on June 23, 2001, at 8:09:19
In reply to GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by sweetmarie on June 22, 2001, at 14:42:54
I dont think anyone truely knows the course you will take. Just think, treatment resistant depression kinda indicates they dont know whats going on.
maybe that nurse has seen people stay like that forever because he told them they would, its cirtainly not an uplifting thought and he should have known better.
hey I hope 2 hear from u soon
M>
> Anna here,
>
> You may have read my postings before, but if not I`ve got a bad case of treatment resistant depression.
>
> Without going into a tedious list of all the meds I`ve been on, I`ll just say that I have been on LOTS. Also ECT. With the exception of Dothiepin (100% effective whilst I was on it, but failed to have any effect when I came off it and went back on ), I have had limited success in the meds I have tried. Over the past 3 years I have been very severely depressed with virtually no respite.
>
> Currently I am hospitalised in a unit that specialises in treatment resistant depression, where I have been for 9 weeks now. I have been on a combination of Mirtazapine and Venlafaxine for 6 weeks now. This is actually irrelevant to my question, though.
>
> Yesterday, I was speaking with the charge nurse, who told me that there was the `real possibility` that I wouldn`t get better than I am now (v. depressed). He actually said that 3 things were equally as likely to happen: 1) I would get better, 2) I would remain as ill as I am now (for the rest of my life), and 3) I would get worse.
>
> I had actually managed to talk myself round to thinking that there WAS light at the end of the tunnel, but this has really kicked me in the teeth. I can`t stand the thought that there is no hope and that I may have to `adjust` my life according to my illness. I don`t mean that I want 100% happiness - I`d settle for continual mild depression. He seemed to be saying that even this may be outside the realms of possibility.
>
> Has anyone got any thoughts? Should I throw in the towel now? CAN I get better? (note - I don`t say `will` I get better. I`ve learned not to ask that question.)
>
> Dr Bob, if you`re reading this, do you have any thoughts on the matter?
>
> Basically, this question is for anyone. Thoughts/remarks urgently required.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anna.
Posted by sweetmarie on June 23, 2001, at 10:37:27
In reply to Re: GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE » sweetmarie, posted by geekUK on June 23, 2001, at 8:09:19
> I dont think anyone truely knows the course you will take. Just think, treatment resistant depression kinda indicates they dont know whats going on.
> maybe that nurse has seen people stay like that forever because he told them they would, its cirtainly not an uplifting thought and he should have known better.
> hey I hope 2 hear from u soon
Maisie & Geek (?),Thanks for both your replies.
No, the comments were certainly NOT uplifting. I`ve had more positive and encouraging feedback from the docs, which I suppose carries more weight than what the nurses say/think. I do think that he could have chosen his words more carefully or, better still, kept his mouth shut. Even if the odds for recovery are really low, surely it`s better to hope than to despair ? Most people with depression are only inches away from giving up completely as it is. We are not going to be very encouraged to keep hoping if our worst fears are reinforced by medical staff.
It`s also good to hear a success story. Let`s have some more.
AGT,
Anna.
Posted by Lorraine on June 23, 2001, at 11:19:05
In reply to GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by sweetmarie on June 22, 2001, at 14:42:54
>3 things were equally as likely to happen: 1) I would get better, 2) I would remain as ill as I am now (for the rest of my life), and 3) I would get worse.
>I can`t stand the thought that there is no hope and that I may have to `adjust` my life according to my illness. I don`t mean that I want 100% happiness - I`d settle for continual mild depression.
Anna: I have been struggling with these thoughts myself lately. Like you, I have TRD, and have not found a combo that worked. I was listening to a radio show about cancer (similar disease, don't you think? LOL) Anyway, the doctor made the point that patients need to stop being so end result oriented, that we have to be willing to say "i want to get well, but this is acceptable. if my conditions gets worse, that will be acceptable." He is talking about acceptance of a medical condition. I don't know that I can do that. I find myself grieving a lot these days--grieving that I have lost forever the person I used to be. My body is damaged irretrievably. I will never be able to handle stress again. I will always have this weakness, this vulnerability. If we had lost an arm, there would be a grieving process we would go thru. Somehow, with this illness, I avoided the grieving process. I stumble along, trying this med and that. Yes, there are always new drugs to try. But somehow, in the process of going from one med to another, we never get to truly mourne our loss. Anyway, this is what I am struggling with now.
Posted by sweetmarie on June 23, 2001, at 17:28:12
In reply to Re: GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE » sweetmarie, posted by Lorraine on June 23, 2001, at 11:19:05
But somehow, in the process of going from one med to another, we never get to truly mourne our loss. Anyway, this is what I am struggling with now.Lorraine,
What can I say, except that I know EXACTLY where you are coming from, and what you`ve written could just have easily been written by me. You have all my sympathies.
Still, "never say die" and all that.
Things cannot go on like this forever, and we must try to remember that.Treatment resistant depression (esp of the severe kind) completely sucks (to use an American expression).
ATB,
Anna.
Posted by sweetmarie on June 23, 2001, at 17:30:34
In reply to Re: GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE » Lorraine, posted by sweetmarie on June 23, 2001, at 17:28:12
Any more stories ?
Gratefully accepted,
Anna.
Posted by rmshed on June 23, 2001, at 23:14:01
In reply to GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by sweetmarie on June 22, 2001, at 14:42:54
>
> Anna here,
>
> You may have read my postings before, but if not I`ve got a bad case of treatment resistant depression.
>
> Without going into a tedious list of all the meds I`ve been on, I`ll just say that I have been on LOTS. Also ECT. With the exception of Dothiepin (100% effective whilst I was on it, but failed to have any effect when I came off it and went back on ), I have had limited success in the meds I have tried. Over the past 3 years I have been very severely depressed with virtually no respite.
>
> Currently I am hospitalised in a unit that specialises in treatment resistant depression, where I have been for 9 weeks now. I have been on a combination of Mirtazapine and Venlafaxine for 6 weeks now. This is actually irrelevant to my question, though.
>
> Yesterday, I was speaking with the charge nurse, who told me that there was the `real possibility` that I wouldn`t get better than I am now (v. depressed). He actually said that 3 things were equally as likely to happen: 1) I would get better, 2) I would remain as ill as I am now (for the rest of my life), and 3) I would get worse.
>
> I had actually managed to talk myself round to thinking that there WAS light at the end of the tunnel, but this has really kicked me in the teeth. I can`t stand the thought that there is no hope and that I may have to `adjust` my life according to my illness. I don`t mean that I want 100% happiness - I`d settle for continual mild depression. He seemed to be saying that even this may be outside the realms of possibility.
>
> Has anyone got any thoughts? Should I throw in the towel now? CAN I get better? (note - I don`t say `will` I get better. I`ve learned not to ask that question.)
>
> Dr Bob, if you`re reading this, do you have any thoughts on the matter?
>
> Basically, this question is for anyone. Thoughts/remarks urgently required.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anna.Your post left me a little short on words. I was told by my doctor 3 months ago that he didn't know what other medications to treat me with. I left his office and had thought about accepting what he said and live life like a flat line. On my last visit with him, I told him that I was just existing. I felt as though there was no hope. Then he suggested Effexor XR along with my prozac, doxepin and xanax. I have only been on effexor xr for 8 days, and I hope that only better times are ahead. I have felt very different this week, in a positive manner. I didn't think about suicide this week. Suicide was on my mind many times a day for about the last 6 months. I feel more focused, I actually want to get some things done on the weekends now. I usually sleep my entire weekend away. Please don't give up yet! The nurse was giving you accurate information. I got on the internet, went to the library and decided that if one doctor doesn't help, I will find another. Good luck and try and take advantage of the support and security of your hospitalization, I have been there and the stays are usually not pleasant. I have been hospitalized for my depression about 10 times in the last 20 years. I never got any better by being hospitalized. I never wanted to get comfortable being in the hospital.
Take Care.
Posted by sweetmarie on June 24, 2001, at 5:51:53
In reply to Re: GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by rmshed on June 23, 2001, at 23:14:01
> Your post left me a little short on words. I was told by my doctor 3 months ago that he didn't know what other medications to treat me with. I left his office and had thought about accepting what he said and live life like a flat line. On my last visit with him, I told him that I was just existing. I felt as though there was no hope. Then he suggested Effexor XR along with my prozac, doxepin and xanax. I have only been on effexor xr for 8 days, and I hope that only better times are ahead. I have felt very different this week, in a positive manner. I didn't think about suicide this week. Suicide was on my mind many times a day for about the last 6 months. I feel more focused, I actually want to get some things done on the weekends now. I usually sleep my entire weekend away. Please don't give up yet! The nurse was giving you accurate information. I got on the internet, went to the library and decided that if one doctor doesn't help, I will find another. Good luck and try and take advantage of the support and security of your hospitalization, I have been there and the stays are usually not pleasant. I have been hospitalized for my depression about 10 times in the last 20 years. I never got any better by being hospitalized. I never wanted to get comfortable being in the hospital.
>
> Take Care.Thank you for replying. It sounds as though you`ve had a rough ride of it too. It must have been horrific to be told that there was effectively very little left to try. One thing that my professor (the man actually in charge of my treatment) has always underlined is that there is NO end to meds and combinations of meds. This is because of the huge range of anti-depressant medications currently available, the new medications coming out regularly, and the advanced research being carried out which will produce more effective medications in the future.
I`m glad that things have shifted just that bit for you. Hopefully this will develop - you`ve just got to make sure that your mental attitude shifts at the same time (far easier said than done, I know). I am on Venlafaxine XR (375 mg) plus Mirtazapine (Remeron in the States, Zispin in this country) 30 mg. I was on Venlafaxine (`normal`) for 18 months in the past, and it had a partial effect. I`m hoping therefore that this plus the Mirtazapine will have an even better effect.
Anyway, thankyou again, and good luck.
Anna.
Posted by Roo on June 25, 2001, at 13:08:25
In reply to Re: GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE » rmshed, posted by sweetmarie on June 24, 2001, at 5:51:53
Anna--
I don't really have a success story to report, but
I just don't want you to take what that nurse said
to heart. What the heck do they know? There's a
damn _plethora_ of possibilities in the world. Who
are they to say "There are 3 possibilities here..."
Ha! I say. Only God, the universe, whatever you wanna
call it knows the potential that can occur. I believe
in miracles, personally, and that we can never truly
know what good things can come into our lives that we
never expected. That's what keeps me from ending it all
when I get down, is that thought--b/c it always proves
to be true...it may be months or years...but something
good happens that I couldn't have guessed (or anyone
else could have guessed) would happen. You don't sound
like you want to give up. You had that feeling of a
silver lining in your head/heart before you heard that
stupid comment, so go back to that place--that's where
the true healing is. Let go of the fear that her/his
comment caused and tenderly wish for yourself what you
would wish for a dear friend.((((Gooooodddd Vibbbeesss)))) your way, sister!
Posted by sweetmarie on June 29, 2001, at 13:46:00
In reply to Re: GENERAL QUESTION - TO EVERYONE, posted by Roo on June 25, 2001, at 13:08:25
> Anna--
>
> I don't really have a success story to report, but
> I just don't want you to take what that nurse said
> to heart. What the heck do they know? There's a
> damn _plethora_ of possibilities in the world. Who
> are they to say "There are 3 possibilities here..."
> Ha! I say. Only God, the universe, whatever you wanna
> call it knows the potential that can occur. I believe
> in miracles, personally, and that we can never truly
> know what good things can come into our lives that we
> never expected. That's what keeps me from ending it all
> when I get down, is that thought--b/c it always proves
> to be true...it may be months or years...but something
> good happens that I couldn't have guessed (or anyone
> else could have guessed) would happen. You don't sound
> like you want to give up. You had that feeling of a
> silver lining in your head/heart before you heard that
> stupid comment, so go back to that place--that's where
> the true healing is. Let go of the fear that her/his
> comment caused and tenderly wish for yourself what you
> would wish for a dear friend.
>
> ((((Gooooodddd Vibbbeesss)))) your way, sister!Thanks xxx
Anna.
This is the end of the thread.
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