![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by grapebubblegum on May 4, 2001, at 9:52:40
There is so much information from so many insightful people on this board that I have no idea where to start, so I am soliciting information from all of you.
To make it a very short story: For years I have received diagnoses of depression although I've never felt "depressed" although I have had a sporadic but severe problem with disabling panic attacks. These attacks can be dormant for years at a time but when the conditions are right, they re-emerge and bring me to my knees, wishing I had not lived to feel the episode. I am never suicidal... I'm just illustrating the fact that these attacks are SEVERE and difficult to derail, even with doses of klonopin so strong I can barely walk, talk or see. Generally with or without going to the E.R., (last time I went they gave me so much ativan injected into my hip that I could barely remember the next few days) the attacks end in sleep and after a period of days or weeks of keeping them at bay with low doses of klonopin (or something similar) and a new regimen of SSRIs, I get back into my panic-attack free routine for months or years before they come back. Like most people, I would prefer not to take meds on an ongoing basis, so I taper off the klonopin really fast (I really only use it in dire emergencies) and eventually decide to also taper off the SSRIs, for a variety of reasons including sexual dysfunction and others. Then, if conditions are favorable, I can go med-free for months or years basically asymptomatic (ok, I guess I do notice some depression and ocd THOUGHT patterns that are on the border of what people can manage on their own but I generally do pretty well) until the next crash.)
I read recently that "bipolar disorder is the new fashionable diagnosis" and I am reluctant to try on new diagnoses for myself anyway. But I have to say that my father was a card-carrying bipolar for many years including several hospitalizations and intensive management that enabled him to live well. My son who is only 5 has just been diagnosed with the same, although the pdoc admits he was going largely on family history in making that diagnosis. When I take those tests for mania I always fail, and I hate to get into the question of "sub-manic syndrome" type symptoms because it seems so close to normal behavior.
It seems like we know a lot about panic disorder now but does anyone know how it really ties in with depression and bipolar disorder? It is obviously tied in with depression because the SSRIs that relieve depression symptoms also provide pretty good protection against panic attacks, I have noticed, and also against o-c thought patterns. Can anyone shed some further light on this for me? And of course I am wondering, with all the bipolar diagnoses in my family, if I am suffering from something that could be better treated with a mood stabilizer rather than the regimen I described above. I have started to notice lately that I feel like I am really flying high before it all comes crashing down. What I mean by that is: (and this is embarrassing but we're here to support one another) changes that wouldn't be seen as extreme except in relation to my "normal self," i.e., a little more sexual interest and impulsivity than normal, an urge to shoplift something out of anger at the incompetent store clerks that I did suppress, but still... not like me... you get the idea. Often times personal conflicts also get more heated up than normal and then some little straw breaks my back and, like I said, with all conditions being right, that little wave of weirdness passes over me and the panic attack begins to set in, everything falls apart until I am a barely-functioning, barely-not-in-the-hospital walking wounded, whereby the cycle starts all over again as I recover from the panic attack, start back on SSRI's, take them for months before feeling that I don't need them, etc. etc. etc. I really REALLY don't want to take them forever because I have a great relationship with someone I love and SSRIs just cripple me sexually. I am also a creative person and I feel that my zest for life is just turned down a few notches too low while on meds. I am on Paxil now, 20 mg per day and things are under control after just about three weeks since my last panic attack. Yet I'm already thinking... "I don't want to take this stuff..."
(sorry, I tried to make it short. ;) )
Posted by kid47 on May 4, 2001, at 12:00:37
In reply to Bipolar disorder vs. panic disorder: any insight?, posted by grapebubblegum on May 4, 2001, at 9:52:40
Hi GBG. I certainly would discuss one of the low side effect profile mood stabilizers with your doc. Neurontin, Topamax, Lamictal, to name some that might be worth considering. If your Bipolar dx is correct SSRI's might actually exacerbate your difficulties. Hope this helps. Take care.
PS. Paxil caused the worst sexual side fx for me of all the AD's I tried.
> There is so much information from so many insightful people on this board that I have no idea where to start, so I am soliciting information from all of you.
>
> To make it a very short story: For years I have received diagnoses of depression although I've never felt "depressed" although I have had a sporadic but severe problem with disabling panic attacks. These attacks can be dormant for years at a time but when the conditions are right, they re-emerge and bring me to my knees, wishing I had not lived to feel the episode. I am never suicidal... I'm just illustrating the fact that these attacks are SEVERE and difficult to derail, even with doses of klonopin so strong I can barely walk, talk or see. Generally with or without going to the E.R., (last time I went they gave me so much ativan injected into my hip that I could barely remember the next few days) the attacks end in sleep and after a period of days or weeks of keeping them at bay with low doses of klonopin (or something similar) and a new regimen of SSRIs, I get back into my panic-attack free routine for months or years before they come back. Like most people, I would prefer not to take meds on an ongoing basis, so I taper off the klonopin really fast (I really only use it in dire emergencies) and eventually decide to also taper off the SSRIs, for a variety of reasons including sexual dysfunction and others. Then, if conditions are favorable, I can go med-free for months or years basically asymptomatic (ok, I guess I do notice some depression and ocd THOUGHT patterns that are on the border of what people can manage on their own but I generally do pretty well) until the next crash.)
>
> I read recently that "bipolar disorder is the new fashionable diagnosis" and I am reluctant to try on new diagnoses for myself anyway. But I have to say that my father was a card-carrying bipolar for many years including several hospitalizations and intensive management that enabled him to live well. My son who is only 5 has just been diagnosed with the same, although the pdoc admits he was going largely on family history in making that diagnosis. When I take those tests for mania I always fail, and I hate to get into the question of "sub-manic syndrome" type symptoms because it seems so close to normal behavior.
>
> It seems like we know a lot about panic disorder now but does anyone know how it really ties in with depression and bipolar disorder? It is obviously tied in with depression because the SSRIs that relieve depression symptoms also provide pretty good protection against panic attacks, I have noticed, and also against o-c thought patterns. Can anyone shed some further light on this for me? And of course I am wondering, with all the bipolar diagnoses in my family, if I am suffering from something that could be better treated with a mood stabilizer rather than the regimen I described above. I have started to notice lately that I feel like I am really flying high before it all comes crashing down. What I mean by that is: (and this is embarrassing but we're here to support one another) changes that wouldn't be seen as extreme except in relation to my "normal self," i.e., a little more sexual interest and impulsivity than normal, an urge to shoplift something out of anger at the incompetent store clerks that I did suppress, but still... not like me... you get the idea. Often times personal conflicts also get more heated up than normal and then some little straw breaks my back and, like I said, with all conditions being right, that little wave of weirdness passes over me and the panic attack begins to set in, everything falls apart until I am a barely-functioning, barely-not-in-the-hospital walking wounded, whereby the cycle starts all over again as I recover from the panic attack, start back on SSRI's, take them for months before feeling that I don't need them, etc. etc. etc. I really REALLY don't want to take them forever because I have a great relationship with someone I love and SSRIs just cripple me sexually. I am also a creative person and I feel that my zest for life is just turned down a few notches too low while on meds. I am on Paxil now, 20 mg per day and things are under control after just about three weeks since my last panic attack. Yet I'm already thinking... "I don't want to take this stuff..."
>
> (sorry, I tried to make it short. ;) )
Posted by grapebubblegum on May 10, 2001, at 9:34:57
In reply to Re: Bipolar disorder vs. panic disorder: any insight? » grapebubblegum, posted by kid47 on May 4, 2001, at 12:00:37
I'm bumping this up so it doesn't get lost in last month's posts. I just read a really good discussion about bipolar disorder farther down the list and I was really REALLY hoping some of you who are familiar with the disorder (vs. depression) and/or panic disorder could give some insight if you have any. I find all of your opinions to be valuable, so please speak up if you have anything that might shed some light on these subjects for me. Thanks for your time. -grapebubblegum
Posted by mila on May 10, 2001, at 11:07:42
In reply to Re: Bipolar disorder vs. panic disorder: any insight?, posted by grapebubblegum on May 10, 2001, at 9:34:57
Hi BGB,
are your panic attacks situationally bound, unexpected, or situationally predisposed?
have you ever tried or been offered to panic control treatment? psychological treatments of panic disorder are very effective, and what's most important they are the only ones which leave patients panic free after the treatment is discontinued months afterwards.
depression is often comorbid with panic disorder, but is not a must have. It is very depressing indeed to suffer from anxiety, and especially panic attacks of the magnitude that you describe. my heart goes out with you. Gosh, you must have suffered big way.
Other phenomena that you describe in your post, seem to me to be anxiety related. Vulnerability to anxiety is definitely genetically predetermined, the fact that one of your relatives suffers from mood disorder, only tells you about your vulnerability, and doesn't doom you to have an exact same disorder as they do. Psychological contribution to the development of your condition (early awareness that events are not always in your control, development of a set of danger-laden beliefs, high sensitivity to threat, and exquisite interoceptive awareness, awareness of your bodily states) distinguish you from them. Plus social contributions to your disorder are of course, hightly specific in your life. (you live under different social pressures than them)
hope this helps.
mila
Posted by grapebubblegum on May 11, 2001, at 8:50:12
In reply to Re: panic , posted by mila on May 10, 2001, at 11:07:42
Thank you Mila, that really did help. I think I can truly say that I've exhausted the resources I could get out of behavioral or whatever non-pharmaceutical therapies there are for control of panic disorder. Thankfully, my attacks are sporadic, they seem unexpected, but there have to be predisposing situational factors for them to occur. I have recently gotten more of an understanding about those factors that crop up during the day when previously I didn't realize the groundwork was being laid for a disabling panic attack. First and foremost, my geographical location (away from the "home base" of the city I grew up in) is the biggest risk factor, and soon I will be moving back to that city, so the attacks shouldn't continue. For now, though, I have no choice but to remain where I am. I'm not in prison or anything (I keep reminding myself that) but for family reasons I can't live where I want right now.
I guess I was asking a philosophical kind of question rather than looking for solutions. I'm trying to put the puzzle pieces together. My father was definitely bi-polar and when I asked him if he had suffered from panic attacks he said "no." When I described them, he changed his answer. He had obviously just never been given the terminology (remember, only a few decades ago there was not much of a name for these episodes and I truly thought I was the only one in the world with such a condition). Since my son has now received the diagnosis of bi-polar disorder, I'm wondering if my doctor has perhaps been on the wrong trail in terms of diagnosis and helpful medication. Is anyone suffering from bipolar disorder or panic disorder or both, able to relate to my experiences?
Posted by Sunie on May 11, 2001, at 12:00:15
In reply to Re: panic , posted by grapebubblegum on May 11, 2001, at 8:50:12
I think this odd mish of BiPolar II and Panic symptoms makes a lot of sense, in a way.
I have the BPII and not the panic, but in the depths of depressive episodes, I experience "the horrible screamies" where I can't breathe, and am in such acute psychic pain that the only thing I can do is scream. (Sub-vocally, of course...this has happened all my life and my mother got MAD every time I got sick or had a problem, so I learned to keep these things very, very, to my self.) This sounds (to me) a lot like the blackness of a panic attack, only it usually only happens after/during a long bout of depressive crying and suicidal ideation. But the physical characteristics, I would say, have some real similarities. What do you think? Do you think Panic and BiPolarII might share some mechanisms? The major difference, I think, is that I never have experienced this in public— and I can't think of an instance where it happened other than at night. For what it's worth. Sunie
Posted by grapebubblegum on May 11, 2001, at 19:15:25
In reply to Re: panic , posted by Sunie on May 11, 2001, at 12:00:15
Actually, maybe we're on to something, Sunie.
For people who have never had a panic attack, it is VERY difficult to explain. It feels nothing like regular fear that is in response to a valid stimulus. It's not even exactly fear... the closest word is panic but there really is no word to describe it unless you have been through it. It's just a total change in self that is very upsetting. I'll try to explain, in my own experience, though it is difficult. As I said, it is not a suicidal feeling but rather a feeling of wishing to not be alive to feel the episode. It's like a disruption in normal thought, so that is why I wanted to explore the idea of whether it could be something that hasn't really been understood well yet.
In trying to explain it to a friend who has felt suicidally depressed but never experienced panic attacks, I said, "It's kind of like the worst lows of depression concentrated in pure form and compressed into a relatively short episode" (although it feels like it lasts forever at the time.)
That sounds kind of like what you described, Sunie. I also become unable to talk during these episodes. I hyperventilate and have a very hard time breathing normally. I pace and perform repetitive motions, (shaking my head, hitting my knee) and then wind up crouched on the floor hardly able to give verbal responses or follow orders from hospital personnel or whoever is around me. I told my doctor this and she said that is how people in bad panic attacks behave. Any other insight from anyone???
Posted by SalArmy4me on May 12, 2001, at 0:45:21
In reply to Bipolar disorder vs. panic disorder: any insight?, posted by grapebubblegum on May 4, 2001, at 9:52:40
Have you tried any pharmacological remedies for the SSRI sexual side-effects (like buproprion or mirtazapine)?
Posted by grapebubblegum on May 12, 2001, at 9:51:26
In reply to Solving SSRI sexual problems » grapebubblegum, posted by SalArmy4me on May 12, 2001, at 0:45:21
No, I haven't. Is buproprion Wellbutrin or BuSpar? My pdoc mentioned just a few days ago that she has had good responses to anxiety in her patients with BuSpar.
By the way, I know I am too curious for my own good, but what exactly causes the sexual side effects in SSRI's, on the neuron level, and how do the "remedies" reverse that effect? And do they reverse the beneficial effects of the SSRIs as well?
I know that I am supposedly not a good candidate for Wellbutrin because it can increase the kind of anxiety associated with panic attacks.
Posted by Mitch on May 12, 2001, at 11:27:03
In reply to Re: panic , posted by grapebubblegum on May 11, 2001, at 8:50:12
Grapebubblegum, that is very fascinating! I have bipolarII and social anxiety with predisposed panic attacks, but I also have had panic that seemed unexpected as well (usually during depressive episodes). Or I begun to worry a LOT (GAD like symptoms) and it snowballs into a panic attack. It took me four times to get a college degree, the last run took four years, and some classes would provoke *daily* panic attacks. This despite being on Prozac. It just made them more endurable I guess. I would sit in a class and whoosh! there it goes flushing, racing heartbeat, unreality feelings, the whole nine yards, what was worse is that it would *repeat* after a few minutes, AGGH! Finals were such a relief! For what its worth my mother had nighttime grand mal seizures and daytime panic symptoms.
I sure hope you get some relief, because the panic stuff is THE WORST case situation that I am ever in, I would trade it for a deep depression any day!!!
> Thank you Mila, that really did help. I think I can truly say that I've exhausted the resources I could get out of behavioral or whatever non-pharmaceutical therapies there are for control of panic disorder. Thankfully, my attacks are sporadic, they seem unexpected, but there have to be predisposing situational factors for them to occur. I have recently gotten more of an understanding about those factors that crop up during the day when previously I didn't realize the groundwork was being laid for a disabling panic attack. First and foremost, my geographical location (away from the "home base" of the city I grew up in) is the biggest risk factor, and soon I will be moving back to that city, so the attacks shouldn't continue. For now, though, I have no choice but to remain where I am. I'm not in prison or anything (I keep reminding myself that) but for family reasons I can't live where I want right now.
>
> I guess I was asking a philosophical kind of question rather than looking for solutions. I'm trying to put the puzzle pieces together. My father was definitely bi-polar and when I asked him if he had suffered from panic attacks he said "no." When I described them, he changed his answer. He had obviously just never been given the terminology (remember, only a few decades ago there was not much of a name for these episodes and I truly thought I was the only one in the world with such a condition). Since my son has now received the diagnosis of bi-polar disorder, I'm wondering if my doctor has perhaps been on the wrong trail in terms of diagnosis and helpful medication. Is anyone suffering from bipolar disorder or panic disorder or both, able to relate to my experiences?
Posted by Sunie on May 12, 2001, at 16:33:24
In reply to Re: panic , posted by Mitch on May 12, 2001, at 11:27:03
ok, it's a deal! let's trade for a while... ;-)
I am, myself, on the second try at my degree, and am leaving to put myself back together. Since I only have it half done, it'll probably take me 4 tries, too! At least you MADE it to class, me, I've just spent a fortune for a semester's worth of sleep and binge eating. ha ha, if that can really be considered funny. I am going to a friend's graduation tonight and I can barely fit into my nice clothes, ones that used to "drape." I feel like a stuffed pengiun and if Wellbutrin doesn't help me lose it I am going to die trying. (or "lose it") :-P
Posted by grapebubblegum on May 12, 2001, at 16:35:25
In reply to Re: panic , posted by Mitch on May 12, 2001, at 11:27:03
And you just opened a fascinating subject, Mitch. What is the connection between epilepsy and anxiety/panic/depression? Klonopin (clonazepam) is a medication for epilepsy... so why does it help to lessen anxiety/panic? My father was basically bipolar (as far as I know panic attacks were not an ongoing problem for him) and the meds he took were tegretol and klonopin. A psychiatric nurse asked me, "What's up with all the epilepsy meds for bipolar?"
Yes, what is up with that? Anyone? One of you people who knows exactly how each med works on which neurotransmittor receptor, please step in and enlighten us. Dr. Bob? Anyone???
Posted by Mitch on May 12, 2001, at 17:29:49
In reply to Re: panic » Mitch, posted by Sunie on May 12, 2001, at 16:33:24
Hi, Sunie! You can do it, it is just not easy and you may end up taking some courses that you find that don't allow you to panic...
I am assuming that you have predisposed panic attacks related to social anxiety, not sure if you have bipolar or not. Anyhow, the sort of crap I went through had to do with researching the classes I was going to take in advance. For instance if I was thinking about a class for the next semester I would go and check it out! For some reason if I got bad vibes just looking at the classroom I wouldn't take the class (not always)! If I felt comfortable with it I would go ahead and take the class. Realize I wasn't taking any Benzos just Prozac and Lithium. It seemed to work out, of course there were certain ones that you HAD to take and I *literally* bit my tongue, clenched my jaws, deep breathing, everything to get through it! For some reason having a computer or some type of "hands-on" stuff in front of me worked better. The worst classes were large, boxed-in lecture halls, where you had to sit there and be *captive*!!
Hope you can find a way to get through. Here is a strange thing I found-Benadryl 25mg before classes in the morning seemed to help more than Valium did (when I was prescribed it once)..go figure!good luck
> ok, it's a deal! let's trade for a while... ;-)
> I am, myself, on the second try at my degree, and am leaving to put myself back together. Since I only have it half done, it'll probably take me 4 tries, too! At least you MADE it to class, me, I've just spent a fortune for a semester's worth of sleep and binge eating. ha ha, if that can really be considered funny. I am going to a friend's graduation tonight and I can barely fit into my nice clothes, ones that used to "drape." I feel like a stuffed pengiun and if Wellbutrin doesn't help me lose it I am going to die trying. (or "lose it") :-P
Posted by Mitch on May 12, 2001, at 17:39:04
In reply to Re: panic , posted by grapebubblegum on May 12, 2001, at 16:35:25
Well, there are theories of "kindling" (smaller hidden seizures that worsen bipolar later on), etc. I know that when my Mom had a nocturnal seizure she would be very depressed and tired and would complain about her eyes hurting her and muscle aches and stiffness. I had a standard EEG done a year ago and they couldn't find evidence of seizure activity. They also did some "mapping" and said there was some unusual frontal hypoactivity (I also have ADD, so no surprise there), they then wanted a 24-hour ambulatory sleep-deprived EEG, but I just can't afford that stuff. I am also a little skeptical as well I have to admit. He also thought I might have some sort of temoral lobe thing after I explained about having some occasional hallucinations with Prozac-they involved auditory "music hallucinations" and then I could be driving at nite and have had three experiences where I felt a panic-like "whoosh" through my body and then the vehicle I was in seemed huge and it seemed like it was about 20 foot off the ground-then it would relent after a few moments!
Just don't know-I still feel puzzled by all my symptoms.
> And you just opened a fascinating subject, Mitch. What is the connection between epilepsy and anxiety/panic/depression? Klonopin (clonazepam) is a medication for epilepsy... so why does it help to lessen anxiety/panic? My father was basically bipolar (as far as I know panic attacks were not an ongoing problem for him) and the meds he took were tegretol and klonopin. A psychiatric nurse asked me, "What's up with all the epilepsy meds for bipolar?"
>
> Yes, what is up with that? Anyone? One of you people who knows exactly how each med works on which neurotransmittor receptor, please step in and enlighten us. Dr. Bob? Anyone???
Posted by Elizabeth on May 12, 2001, at 19:46:54
In reply to Re: panic , posted by grapebubblegum on May 11, 2001, at 8:50:12
> Thank you Mila, that really did help. I think I can truly say that I've exhausted the resources I could get out of behavioral or whatever non-pharmaceutical therapies there are for control of panic disorder.
Hi, "Grape." < g > I have infrequent (but intense) PAs also. I never got much out of the cognitive-behavioural therapy that is supposed to be so helpful. Mostly it seemed like a bunch of common-sense advice that could have come out of a self-help book -- strategies that I was already practising on my own by the time my panic attacks were diagnosed.
Most people with panic disorder have situationally predisposed attacks as well as completely spontaneous ones. Antidepressants work, as do high-potency benzodiazepines. Xanax is a nice choice if you have infrequent attacks because it works fast enough that you can often stave off an attack altogether by taking it as soon as you feel the signs of panic.
I think your living situation can make a big difference as to how likely you are to have attacks. However, it also seems that, left untreated, panic (and depression and manic-depression) can take on a life of its own. I hope that moving solves your problem or at least alleviates it.
Take care.
-elizabeth
Posted by judy1 on May 12, 2001, at 20:48:00
In reply to Re: Bipolar disorder vs. panic disorder: any insight?, posted by grapebubblegum on May 10, 2001, at 9:34:57
Hi,
I'm dxed with bipolar and panic disorders. You might enjoy this site http://www.algy.com/pdi/FAQ/faq.cgi to answer questions on panic. Please read the SSRI faq, you'll see that they considerably worsen panic (and in my case rapid cycling bipolar disorder) Xanax is the med of choice for panic + CBT. My pdoc has me on klonopin for panic and as a (partial) mood stabilizer for bipolar. I believe I read that bipolar disorder has more comorbid disorders than any other diagnosis- drug abuse being #1 and anxiety and panic disorders following. The younger you are and the quicker you get treatment (CBT) the better the chances are for you to do w/o meds, although some people with true biologically driven panic can never do w/o meds (benzos). I'm sorry for not reading the thread- did you say you were dxed with both? Best of luck- judy
Posted by Mitch on May 13, 2001, at 10:53:43
In reply to Re: Bipolar disorder vs. panic disorder: any insight? » grapebubblegum, posted by judy1 on May 12, 2001, at 20:48:00
Hi, judy1, went to the site and it was VERY informative. What blew my mind was the reflux disease-bile connection that sets off the somatic triggers for panic. I have had GERD for a long, long time, incidentally, it started about the time the panic started.....I also have had hiatal hernia...I also have a touchy gut and have had IBS problems too.... Get this, I had unexplained ribcage and abdominal pain-went to the doctor and he put me on Prevacid and ordered a gall bladder ultrasound!! (this about two months ago) Whenever I have a panic attack there is inevitably a somatic trigger that sets it off. Most often intestinal cramping or choking sensations. Thanks for the LINK!!
Mitch
> Hi,
> I'm dxed with bipolar and panic disorders. You might enjoy this site http://www.algy.com/pdi/FAQ/faq.cgi to answer questions on panic. Please read the SSRI faq, you'll see that they considerably worsen panic (and in my case rapid cycling bipolar disorder) Xanax is the med of choice for panic + CBT. My pdoc has me on klonopin for panic and as a (partial) mood stabilizer for bipolar. I believe I read that bipolar disorder has more comorbid disorders than any other diagnosis- drug abuse being #1 and anxiety and panic disorders following. The younger you are and the quicker you get treatment (CBT) the better the chances are for you to do w/o meds, although some people with true biologically driven panic can never do w/o meds (benzos). I'm sorry for not reading the thread- did you say you were dxed with both? Best of luck- judy
Posted by grapebubblegum on May 13, 2001, at 11:37:12
In reply to Re: Bipolar disorder vs. panic disorder: any insight?, posted by Mitch on May 13, 2001, at 10:53:43
You guys are coming up with very interesting stuff. I am going to check out that link now. I know that an overfull stomach late in the evening sometimes starts a mild nauseous feeling which is the starting point for a panic attack. Please keep these responses coming in because this is very helpful for me. Thanks, guys.
Posted by Mitch on May 13, 2001, at 14:31:36
In reply to Re: Bipolar disorder vs. panic disorder: any insight?, posted by grapebubblegum on May 13, 2001, at 11:37:12
Well, here's another tidbit of info. I have some trouble with alcohol (not REAL bad-but it is too much and I think I would be better off not drinking at all). I have noticed that panic feelings are more likely when you are coming down from a beer buzz (i.e.), or if you really overindulged and are hungover the next day and then you EAT for the first time! An hour of two later I just get so amped out I can hardly stand it. I do know that seizure activity is more likely after an alcohol withdrawal-it is like abruptly taking Valium or some other Benzo. Maybe... the same mechanisms that could set a seizure off could also set off panic-even though a panic attack isn't recorded on an EEG like a classical seizure....
Posted by kid47 on May 13, 2001, at 17:22:17
In reply to Re: Bipolar disorder vs. panic disorder: any insight?, posted by grapebubblegum on May 13, 2001, at 11:37:12
Hi. Check out Dr. Stuart Shipko & The Panic Disorder Institute. Interesting stuff on links between PA's & GERD. Take care.
> You guys are coming up with very interesting stuff. I am going to check out that link now. I know that an overfull stomach late in the evening sometimes starts a mild nauseous feeling which is the starting point for a panic attack. Please keep these responses coming in because this is very helpful for me. Thanks, guys.
Posted by judy1 on May 13, 2001, at 18:29:56
In reply to Re: Bipolar disorder vs. panic disorder: any insight?, posted by Mitch on May 13, 2001, at 10:53:43
Hi Mitch,
I'm glad you enjoyed the link; and the BBS is really useful too since Dr. S answers a lot of the questions. It really is amazing what true panic disorder encompasses, and how many people share identical symptoms with you. Take care- judy
Posted by JahL on May 13, 2001, at 20:12:47
In reply to Re: Bipolar disorder vs. panic disorder: any insight?, posted by Mitch on May 13, 2001, at 14:31:36
> Well, here's another tidbit of info. I have some trouble with alcohol (not REAL bad-but it is too much and I think I would be better off not drinking at all). I have noticed that panic feelings are more likely when you are coming down from a beer buzz (i.e.), or if you really overindulged and are hungover the next day and then you EAT for the first time! An hour of two later I just get so amped out I can hardly stand it. I do know that seizure activity is more likely after an alcohol withdrawal-it is like abruptly taking Valium or some other Benzo. Maybe... the same mechanisms that could set a seizure off could also set off panic-even though a panic attack isn't recorded on an EEG like a classical seizure....
Hi Mitch.
I know sod-all about PD but I have a binge-drinking friend who only *ever* has panic-attacks when the bingeing stops. I've read a few pieces connecting seizures (alcohol-induced in this case?) & PD.
Could be something 2 it...
j
Posted by grapebubblegum on May 13, 2001, at 21:46:16
In reply to Re: panic disorder drink » Mitch, posted by JahL on May 13, 2001, at 20:12:47
I am eternally grateful to you guys for sharing this info and the links. Just last night I had ONE drink and felt ok, but when it was wearing off I had that little aura of a panic attack getting ready to sweep over me. I was about to eat dinner and felt that I couldn't eat and that I was going to fall apart. Somehow I became engaged in conversation, ate my dinner and felt fine. I've also noticed that I have a binge eating pattern that I am working on changing. But when I go on a "bender" of eating sugary junk all day like an addict, I am most vulnerable to panic attacks that evening. When I eat like a normal person, I am much more stable. All very interesting stuff. I haven't looked at the link yet but I really, really will now. ;o)
Posted by Mitch on May 14, 2001, at 0:09:08
In reply to Re: panic disorder drink, posted by grapebubblegum on May 13, 2001, at 21:46:16
Wow! This is getting very interesting! You brought up the sugar stuff and I have noticed that if I overindulge in sugar as well that I get very dizzy-nauseous-and my heart races too! I normally try to avoid it-just *coincidentally*. When I say "overindulge"-we are talking about two or three pieces of cake and two scoops of ice cream. I have thought for along time that all my troubles with moodswings-panic-ADD were all related to a *neuro-endocrine* thing that nobody has had time to unravel just yet.
Hope this helps anyone out there.
Here is another little tidbit of info-my Mom not only had nocturnal epilepsy but had thyroid tumor-then thyroid cancer. Last year I had my thyroid tumor and half my thyroid was surgically removed-the same age my Mom had the surgery!....go figure..again.> I am eternally grateful to you guys for sharing this info and the links. Just last night I had ONE drink and felt ok, but when it was wearing off I had that little aura of a panic attack getting ready to sweep over me. I was about to eat dinner and felt that I couldn't eat and that I was going to fall apart. Somehow I became engaged in conversation, ate my dinner and felt fine. I've also noticed that I have a binge eating pattern that I am working on changing. But when I go on a "bender" of eating sugary junk all day like an addict, I am most vulnerable to panic attacks that evening. When I eat like a normal person, I am much more stable. All very interesting stuff. I haven't looked at the link yet but I really, really will now. ;o)
Posted by grapebubblegum on May 14, 2001, at 8:17:17
In reply to Re: panic disorder drink, posted by Mitch on May 14, 2001, at 0:09:08
Yes, I think we are on to something but I'm not sure what yet. I know my thyroid screen was not entirely "normal" when it was done last; I think I'll ask for a better screen next time I see a doctor. And my sister had half her thyroid removed recently too. Hmm...
I've suspected a blood sugar problem in myself that is related to my mood disorder. If you visit the link that Judy posted, there was a lot of information on blood sugar and insulin in relation to panic disorder. I asked my friend who is much better versed in blood sugar issues (due to diabetes in her family) to look it over and get back to me as it is just a tad over my head.
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