![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnM on May 3, 2001, at 16:41:43
Is there any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that ADD (no H) is related to social phobia? I do believe that I had ADD in school growing up and that self-esteem issues followed.
My "social phobia" (my diagnosis) reaction around people I think has a lot to do with the fact that I can only concentrate on one thing at a time and I get frazzled if I'm am pushed beyond my limits. I therefore avoid large social gatherings. Only in one-on-one conversation have I really found some success socializing (and limited there). For example, when I am listening to someone talk (one-on-one) I have to concentrate very hard to follow them. Also, my cognition is a little slow due to my resources being devoted to attention, so I've never been clever or witty in conversation. Ironically, though I'm quite intelligent. It is just that I can only handle so much coming through my "mental funnel."
I've historically been diagnosed by way of the anxiety/depression route, but I've been wondering if I should be approached from an ADD viewpoint.
Also, has anyone experienced relief from "anxiety" and/or "depression" and/or "social phobia" by way of stimulent medications?
Posted by JahL on May 3, 2001, at 17:24:49
In reply to A significant link between ADD and Social Anxiety?, posted by JohnM on May 3, 2001, at 16:41:43
> > Is there any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that ADD (no H) is related to social phobia? I do believe that I had ADD in school growing up and that self-esteem issues followed.
Both ADD & social phobia are highly co-morbid with BP. There are a couple of studies on Medline.
> > My "social phobia" (my diagnosis) reaction around people I think has a lot to do with the fact that I can only concentrate on one thing at a time and I get frazzled if I'm am pushed beyond my limits. I therefore avoid large social gatherings. Only in one-on-one conversation have I really found some success socializing (and limited there). For example, when I am listening to someone talk (one-on-one) I have to concentrate very hard to follow them. Also, my cognition is a little slow due to my resources being devoted to attention, so I've never been clever or witty in conversation. Ironically, though I'm quite intelligent. It is just that I can only handle so much coming through my "mental funnel."Very spooky; you are describing my s. phobia precisely. It's good to know someone acknowledges this perfectly logical description; various pdocs have had trouble doing this. I'm not in the least bit afraid of anyone; it's just my brain doesn't function at the level required for complex social interaction (I have ADD+depression as well). I'm always 2 steps behind the conversation & this can make me appear a little 'slow' at times. At school/college I was always top 1%.
> >I've historically been diagnosed by way of the anxiety/depression route, but I've been wondering if I should be approached from an ADD viewpoint.
> > Also, has anyone experienced relief from "anxiety" and/or "depression" and/or "social phobia" by way of stimulent medications?
There is a poster on this board who has experienced precisely that. I think her name is Katz (out there?) & she used Ritalin only. I personally know someone who has had complete remission of depression/anxiety on dexedrine.
J.
Posted by Sulpicia on May 3, 2001, at 18:33:07
In reply to A significant link between ADD and Social Anxiety?, posted by JohnM on May 3, 2001, at 16:41:43
> Hi--
I have ADD and depression. Didn't know about the ADD until my son was screened for it -- son negative, mom positive,
much to the pdoc's amusement.
Now keeping in mind that I don't know much about social phobia, what you describe about your social interaction
is PRECISELY what happens in ADD. It's like some sort of hallmark symptom that we do not read other people's emotional
and social cues. I never realized that this was an issue for me until my pdoc pointed out that my *extreme* attention to
body language was in fact a compensatory mechanism for a standard ADD trait. I'm impressed that you've analyzed your social
responses so astutely -- it does seem like you are compensating. And let me reassure you: having ADD means being TIRED from
working so damn hard all the time to decode, absorb, or whatever.
ADD and depression go hand-in-hand. I've never met anyone who got relief from pstims alone but that is nothing more than my
experience. I do experience some lessening of ADD symptoms when on AD meds but not enough to function adequately.An excellent pdoc can help you navigate the dx and tx but *do* ask if she/he has experience in ADD in adults B4 you plunk
down any $.
S.
Posted by JahL on May 3, 2001, at 18:56:42
In reply to A significant link between ADD and Social Anxiety?, posted by JohnM on May 3, 2001, at 16:41:43
> > My "social phobia" (my diagnosis)I shld add that though I have identical symptoms to you, as far as you describe them, I do have 'genuine' social phobia. By this I mean I have 'phobic' symptoms such as inner panic, palpitations, adrenaline surges etc. Social phobics also carry the conviction that others are obsessively scrutinising them. If you don't have these additional symptoms you probably don't have s. phobia & rather you have the kind of ADD-related social interaction probs that Sulpicia described.
I think my problem is I have ADD, social phobia & all the unsociability that goes with being depressed. Not a great recipe for having meaningful relationships! Surprisingly noone ever guesses...
As Sulpicia says, it's vital you find someone experienced in treating ADD.
Good luck,
J
Posted by bella007 on May 3, 2001, at 19:02:27
In reply to A significant link between ADD and Social Anxiety?, posted by JohnM on May 3, 2001, at 16:41:43
> Is there any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that ADD (no H) is related to social phobia? I do believe that I had ADD in school growing up and that self-esteem issues followed.
>
> My "social phobia" (my diagnosis) reaction around people I think has a lot to do with the fact that I can only concentrate on one thing at a time and I get frazzled if I'm am pushed beyond my limits. I therefore avoid large social gatherings. Only in one-on-one conversation have I really found some success socializing (and limited there). For example, when I am listening to someone talk (one-on-one) I have to concentrate very hard to follow them. Also, my cognition is a little slow due to my resources being devoted to attention, so I've never been clever or witty in conversation. Ironically, though I'm quite intelligent. It is just that I can only handle so much coming through my "mental funnel."
>
> I've historically been diagnosed by way of the anxiety/depression route, but I've been wondering if I should be approached from an ADD viewpoint.
>
> Also, has anyone experienced relief from "anxiety" and/or "depression" and/or "social phobia" by way of stimulent medications?I have ADHD, and Social Anxiety, and I have been affected by the two my whole life. I am 20 yrs. old, and I was diagnowed with ADHD, in March '00, and social anxiety last summer. I began taking Adderall after being diagnosed with ADHD, and it did wonders for me in that area, but it made my social anxiety ten times worse. I believe this was due to the fact that after the Adderall calmed me down, I was so aware of everything and everyone around me, for the first time ever, and I became so concerened, even more than I was before, with how I was being perceived by others. So, the Adderall heightened my anxiety, but it definately alleviated some of my depression, and I know for a fact that it has done the same for others. In my opinion, there is probably a connection between ADHD and social anxiety; several people in my family have both. It would be interesting to see a study of the two.
Posted by JohnM on May 4, 2001, at 22:09:03
In reply to Re: ADD and Social Phobia: PS, posted by JahL on May 3, 2001, at 18:56:42
I think if I have any other problems besides attention it would be a perfectionistic attitude which makes me overly concerned with what others might think of me. The combination of the two could spell a recipe for "social phobia." I've reduced my perfectionism considerably with rational-emotive therapy.
The idea of having to speak to a large group makes me panicky, but that is a common fear with alot of people.
At present I take Nardil (30mg) which I probably would have to stop taking to start a stimulent, so its something to think about.
Thanks all, for the input!
Posted by JahL on May 5, 2001, at 18:29:22
In reply to ADD + perfectionism = Social Phobia??, posted by JohnM on May 4, 2001, at 22:09:03
> > I think if I have any other problems besides attention it would be a perfectionistic attitude which makes me overly concerned with what others might think of me. The combination of the two could spell a recipe for "social phobia." I've reduced my perfectionism considerably with rational-emotive therapy.
I think perfectionism (& I speak as THE arch-perfectionist) can be regarded as a stand-alone 'personality trait' which, if not obsessive in nature, doesn't necessarily cause the individual any distress (the same cannot be said of those that have to live with the perfectionist!).I don't believe it 'causes' social anxiety, tho' this probably exacerbates the perfectionist streak in you. Social phobics are v concerned with how others perceive them. I believe perfectionism can sometimes be employed subconsciously to create the desired good impression.
Perfectionism could also be seen as a compensatory tool for difficulties yr ADD might cause you.
> > The idea of having to speak to a large group makes me panicky, but that is a common fear with alot of people.
The 'panicky' description is possibly suggestive of 'specific' social phobia/anxiety which is characterised by performance anxiety & is less disalbing than the 'generalized' (& much more pervasive) form that tends to appear on this board. As you say though, it's a common enough problem. I think it's a question of *degree*.
J.
Posted by iamanonymous on August 7, 2001, at 11:53:50
In reply to ADD + perfectionism = Social Phobia??, posted by JohnM on May 4, 2001, at 22:09:03
> I think if I have any other problems besides attention it would be a perfectionistic attitude which makes me overly concerned with what others might think of me. The combination of the two could spell a recipe for "social phobia." I've reduced my perfectionism considerably with rational-emotive therapy.
>
> The idea of having to speak to a large group makes me panicky, but that is a common fear with alot of people.
>
> At present I take Nardil (30mg) which I probably would have to stop taking to start a stimulent, so its something to think about.
>
> Thanks all, for the input!I agree with you. Let me show you a situation in everyday life:
friend: hello [me],how are you doing today?
{i'm thinking: why does he want to talk with me, he usually doesn't talk to me. hmm..}
me: good, how are you?
{I'm going to put a smile on my face otherwise he won't talk to me anymore}
friend: good, about the school assignment we made together,
{don't tell me, I screwed it up}
friend: you did a nice job
{I don't understand, I know sure that I did it wrong}
me: what did you say?
{oh no, now he thinks I don't have any self confidence}
friend: you did a fine job with that assignment.
me: oh.. I thought....
I remember from childhood, talking to people was very difficult, because by brain wasn't fast enough to cope with number of thoughts I needed to overcome.
friend: hello [me],how are you doing today?
me: ehhhh... what did you say?
me: how I am doing? fine
me: ehhhhh... never mind
friend: see you later...
me: ehh. ok ... good bye ehhhh.
friend: do you want to say something?
me: no
I think internal distractions are more difficult to cope then external ones, which I don't have.
I usually don't get distracted by a singing bird outside the class room. But I do things 'in slowmotion' because of internal distractions.It seems that over the years my brain became faster so that I can cope with those distractions. I still have them. I just turned 18 and never used any stimulants in my whole life.
I don't plan to use them because I don't think it could benefit me very much.
now, it seems that my speech has normal or even above average speed. I know this because I check it every time.
Posted by Mitch on August 7, 2001, at 13:49:17
In reply to Re: ADD + perfectionism = Social Phobia??, posted by iamanonymous on August 7, 2001, at 11:53:50
> > I think if I have any other problems besides attention it would be a perfectionistic attitude which makes me overly concerned with what others might think of me. The combination of the two could spell a recipe for "social phobia." I've reduced my perfectionism considerably with rational-emotive therapy.
Iamanon,
Sounds like a reasonable idea. I like trying out non-med "tips" and ideas. One thing I have found that seems to work (a variant of an idea that jojo posted) on the indecisiveness part of my ADHD, is when I find myself aimlessly pacing around before I go somewhere is to ask myself directly: "OK, what is the very next decision that needs to be made?", then I answer it. All very quickly and in very discrete steps. And whatever I answer I DO. It has helped.
Mitch
Posted by Seamus2 on August 8, 2001, at 11:28:54
In reply to Re: ADD + perfectionism = Social Phobia?? » iamanonymous, posted by Mitch on August 7, 2001, at 13:49:17
> >"OK, what is the very next decision that needs to be made?", < <
I like that! Got any more tips?
Seamus
Posted by Mitch on August 8, 2001, at 12:26:45
In reply to ADD non-med tips??, posted by Seamus2 on August 8, 2001, at 11:28:54
> > >"OK, what is the very next decision that needs to be made?", < <
>
> I like that! Got any more tips?
>
> SeamusS,
Unfortunately, ADHD has not been treated very successfully without meds. That was why I was surprised when I found *one* useful thing that actually did help. Anybody else out there have any useful things to help ADD without meds?? I know that many people who had problems with impulsivity as children outgrow some of that as adults, but the tough one is how to treat the inattentiveness effectively.
Mitch
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.