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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SalArmy4me on March 2, 2001, at 9:07:07
This is going to be refreshing.
I could tell you to passively comply with your conservative doctor's idea of good treatment for depression. But I know from experience that there is an aggressive and more effective way of defeating depression, one that noone is willing to promote openly for fear of chastisement-- it means circumventing your doctor (somehow thought of as a crime in middle-class America):
1) Get the medications any way you can. If you can't get your doctor to prescribe them, then go to Mexico. Go to Canada if you want moclobemide or reboxetine.
2) Get an antidepressant that works on two or more chemicals in the brain. Effexor is good; Parnate (I recommend it); Remeron.
3) Go up to the maximum dose or 75% of the maximum dose as soon as you can. Though everyone else will tell you to do this gradually, the psychiatrists don't want you to do this for fear that you move on to another doctor due to dissatisfaction (side-effects). From my years of experience, taking a full dose early on _does_ help. If you can make it through the initial side-effects, you have what it takes to rid yourself of depression quickly. Side-effects will lessen with time.
4) Add Lithium as soon as you can tolerate the first antidepressant. No other augmentation agent has been proven to work as well as Lithium. Most studies say that improvement from Lithium is fast and dramatic, usually within a week.
5) Combat the side-effects: This is the only way you will be able to make it through a medicaiton like Parnate or Lithium. Here are the medications you might need: Prilosec/Prevacid (stomacheache,
esophagitis, nausea); Inderal (tremor); Urecholine/Flomax (dry mouth, constipation, sweating, urinary retention); Provigil/Cylert
(drowsiness, fatigue); Elavil/Depakote (headaches);
Desyrel/Restoril/Ambien (short-acting relief of insomnia); Selegan (salivation); Wellbutrin/Remeron (sexual side-effects); Cycling (Neurontin/Lamictal); Allegra/Claritin (congestion)...etc.
6) Wait until your un-prescribed medication has worked for a month; definitely have your doctor give you a prescription for it (now its legal), then put on a good act like you have never taken it before.
7) You might have some side-effect, and you scare the crap out of yourself because you erroneously think you have a mortal illness. My Dr. Dad says (not verbatim), "Every medication lists many horrific side-effects on the prescribing-reference, and noone actually gets them. But my patients will object to taking medications I prescribe, based on the miniscule chance of a permanent side effect-- the sad part is that they will suffer until they have no other choice but to accept
treatment."
Best wishes for your full recovery by Easter...
Posted by dj on March 2, 2001, at 11:06:12
In reply to The _Real_ way to defeat depression (with meds), posted by SalArmy4me on March 2, 2001, at 9:07:07
"my years of experience, taking a full dose early on _does_ help."
How many years of experience are you basing your many threads of advice on and besides your 'years of experience' and discussions with your doctor Dad, what else might you be basing your various recommendations on?
Posted by SalArmy4me on March 2, 2001, at 12:59:18
In reply to Re: The _Real_ way to defeat depression (with meds) » SalArmy4me, posted by dj on March 2, 2001, at 11:06:12
I trust my father's judgment on medications and treatment of depression. He's been in practice for 25 years. Besides, wouldn't you trust your own father?
I've been with this illness for 5 years. I am now doing well on BuSpar and Lamictal.
Posted by NikkiT2 on March 2, 2001, at 13:22:10
In reply to Re: The _Real_ way to defeat depression (with meds), posted by SalArmy4me on March 2, 2001, at 12:59:18
remeber the old addage - "Everyones milage varies".. this may be how you managed to help yourself, but please, do not say this will work for everyone. It's dangerous to do so. Fromwhat I know of lithium, you have to have blood checks and stuff, so it MUST be taken under controlled circumstances.
i am starting to get angry that un-educated (and what ever you say, YOU are not a doctor) peopple feel that it is their right to come in here and tell people how exactly to do it - this is wrong, and Ibet your dad would be angry for you for doing so - If he isn't, he isn't worth his weight as a doctor.
In the future, please just say "this is what worked for me", not the way you said this.
Nikki
Posted by Noa on March 2, 2001, at 13:57:08
In reply to Re: The _Real_ way to defeat depression (with meds) » SalArmy4me, posted by NikkiT2 on March 2, 2001, at 13:22:10
I agree with Nikki. Each of us has such a different chemistry. And while I look for experience in a doctor, I personally would have a problem with a doctor who told me there was one way to treat all depressions.
I think it is fantastic that you found what works for you. I, too, have found a good medication cocktail. And I also want to share my experience with others in case someone might be helped by it. But I can't assume that everyone would have the same results I did.
The other concern I have is the recommendation to go for unprescribed medications. I understand why some people get to that decision. But to me, it seems a very risky proposition and hardly something I would make a blanket recommendation for people to do.
Posted by dj on March 2, 2001, at 14:39:33
In reply to Re: The _Real_ way to defeat depression (with meds), posted by SalArmy4me on March 2, 2001, at 12:59:18
> I trust my father's judgment on medications and treatment of depression. He's been in practice for 25 years. Besides, wouldn't you trust your >own father?
I'd trust my own father in his areas of expertise. Depression treatment is not the area of expertise of a lot of MDs, however your father may have spent more time on it due to your afflictions and concern for you. As others have noted what worked for you wouldn't neccesarily work for everyone and you did have some superivion from your doctor and Dad (who may be the same) I assume.
>
> I've been with this illness for 5 years. I am >now doing well on BuSpar and Lamictal.How many combos. did you do before you came up with this one and how many of the meds. you reference are ones you've had personal experience with and what was your expience with them? And how long did that process take?
Posted by steve on March 2, 2001, at 16:59:02
In reply to The _Real_ way to defeat depression (with meds), posted by SalArmy4me on March 2, 2001, at 9:07:07
There are several faulty conclusions.
Getting meds from overseas without a doctor's okay is illegal.
No psychotropic acts on purely one neurotransmitter system. As Cam will tell you, one sees changes to the CRF, Glucocorticoid, noradrenergic receptors in the supposedly "serotonin selective" SSRIs.
Whatever the merits of MAOIs in atypical depression, taking parnate in agitated depressive states in a sure fire receipe for disaster.
Since you like to take matters into your own hands, maybe trepaning might be an option. It has been around for a thousand years, and few who have done it have been heard to complain about it afterwards. Here's a link:
http://www.crank.com/crank2/crank2_trepan1.html
> This is going to be refreshing.
>
> I could tell you to passively comply with your conservative doctor's idea of good treatment for depression. But I know from experience that there is an aggressive and more effective way of defeating depression, one that noone is willing to promote openly for fear of chastisement-- it means circumventing your doctor (somehow thought of as a crime in middle-class America):
>
> 1) Get the medications any way you can. If you can't get your doctor to prescribe them, then go to Mexico. Go to Canada if you want moclobemide or reboxetine.
>
> 2) Get an antidepressant that works on two or more chemicals in the brain. Effexor is good; Parnate (I recommend it); Remeron.
>
> 3) Go up to the maximum dose or 75% of the maximum dose as soon as you can. Though everyone else will tell you to do this gradually, the psychiatrists don't want you to do this for fear that you move on to another doctor due to dissatisfaction (side-effects). From my years of experience, taking a full dose early on _does_ help. If you can make it through the initial side-effects, you have what it takes to rid yourself of depression quickly. Side-effects will lessen with time.
>
> 4) Add Lithium as soon as you can tolerate the first antidepressant. No other augmentation agent has been proven to work as well as Lithium. Most studies say that improvement from Lithium is fast and dramatic, usually within a week.
>
> 5) Combat the side-effects: This is the only way you will be able to make it through a medicaiton like Parnate or Lithium. Here are the medications you might need: Prilosec/Prevacid (stomacheache,
> esophagitis, nausea); Inderal (tremor); Urecholine/Flomax (dry mouth, constipation, sweating, urinary retention); Provigil/Cylert
> (drowsiness, fatigue); Elavil/Depakote (headaches);
> Desyrel/Restoril/Ambien (short-acting relief of insomnia); Selegan (salivation); Wellbutrin/Remeron (sexual side-effects); Cycling (Neurontin/Lamictal); Allegra/Claritin (congestion)...etc.
>
> 6) Wait until your un-prescribed medication has worked for a month; definitely have your doctor give you a prescription for it (now its legal), then put on a good act like you have never taken it before.
>
> 7) You might have some side-effect, and you scare the crap out of yourself because you erroneously think you have a mortal illness. My Dr. Dad says (not verbatim), "Every medication lists many horrific side-effects on the prescribing-reference, and noone actually gets them. But my patients will object to taking medications I prescribe, based on the miniscule chance of a permanent side effect-- the sad part is that they will suffer until they have no other choice but to accept
> treatment."
>
> Best wishes for your full recovery by Easter...
Posted by Anna P. on March 3, 2001, at 0:17:25
In reply to The _Real_ way to defeat depression (with meds), posted by SalArmy4me on March 2, 2001, at 9:07:07
> What I think is that sharing the advice from SalArmy4Me has a value for people who are desperate, for people who are tired to deal with doctors and hard-to-treat depressions, for people who can't afford to pay doctors' fees on ongoing basis. It's better to take the situation in own hands that commit suicide, go to the hospital or loose a lot in someone's life due to the treatment-resistant depression.
Finally for people who go from doctor to doctor and still are not helped.
Of course people who are concerned are welcome to deal with their problem with a more conservative way.
On my example, I spent a fortune on specialists and endless trials for my treatment- resistant depression.
I'm not affraid to try medications from abroad because everything is better than suffering from a real depression.
For me, this site has a value because of sharing own experiences and information.
Anna P.
Posted by Dubya on March 3, 2001, at 0:26:09
In reply to Re: The _Real_ way to defeat depression - Thanks!, posted by Anna P. on March 3, 2001, at 0:17:25
Yes, I totally agree. Depression or related 'illnesses' cause people to suffer needlessly and painfully. I mean, these 'illnesses' often want to make one, including myself contemplate suicide or slitting wrists but then realizing that my brother, mother and father may feel terrible pain without my existence; not to mention others close to me such as my friends. In a depressive illness, it seems as if the whole world is against you. I am only 20yrs old/male but again, I can feel the pain like others of my age or who are older.
Posted by SalArmy4me on March 4, 2001, at 18:02:58
In reply to Re: The _Real_ way to defeat depression - Thanks!, posted by Dubya on March 3, 2001, at 0:26:09
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/Pindolol-as-augmenting-age.html
This is the end of the thread.
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