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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Alii on February 12, 2001, at 10:53:15
Six hours til the pdoc appt. The past few days have been the lowest and darkest in a long time. I haven't been sleeping more than 2 hrs/night. I think one of the reasons I went off the meds (WB SR latest dosage was 300 mg/day and Buspar which I had only just started and had taken 5 days of 5 mg/night) was because of the marked increase in anxiety. The doc said that Buspar could help level out the additional anxiety the WB was causing. I was also taking Restoril for the insomnia caused by the WB. Not every night usually but once or twice a week when I took my second dose of the WB SR later than usual. I guess I'm asking if anyone has any ideas for sleep besides benzos. I'm worried about the long term effects of having to take them for more than two or three weeks straight. Things are so dismal I just know this will keep getting worse without sleep.
The sleeping pills aren't working now. I've been taking 30 mgs. before I try to go to bed and I feel so tired an hour after taking them (sooner now than I haven't been able to eat) but sleep is still elusive. When I did wake this morning I felt so ill, an effect the sleeping pills had been having as I've had to take them more than twice a week.
I know I need to eat and I know I need to sleep. Any ideas? I'm so frazzled. I'm beyond decision making. The depression is hitting so hard and pulling me down so low. Each time this ugly beast shows up it tries to take me lower and darker than the last episode. Is that just my feelings of shame over not being able to 'get well' for not kicking this f***er of a disease? I feel like this is my failing for not trying hard enough. For somehow it has to be my fault. I do know in some tiny ember deep down inside that this isn't my fault but that ember is fading fast.
So low,
Alii
Posted by SalArmy4me on February 12, 2001, at 12:47:21
In reply to Wellbutrin, Buspar and sleep....possible?, posted by Alii on February 12, 2001, at 10:53:15
I think you could benefit greatly from some Zyprexa. It promotes sleep quality and it will calm you down for the rest of the next day.
I think a good second option would be trazodone.
Both of these drugs will help you with your depression, too.
Posted by Lisabet on February 12, 2001, at 16:59:51
In reply to Wellbutrin, Buspar and sleep....possible?, posted by Alii on February 12, 2001, at 10:53:15
Alli, I take Wellbutrin and Buspar. I usually don't have sleeping problems. Well, anymore.
I am super-sensitive to anti-depressants. One thing I have learned is, is to start small and take it slow. And you probably know this, don't take them late in the day! When I started, I took a 100 mg pill early in the a.m. for the first few weeks.
The thing about Wellbutrin is that it does work, but it takes a while. Slowly, but surely. At first, it will make you nervous and crabby. It will get better.
The Buspar, I believe, augments it. I take Lorezapam (Ativan) as needed and that seems to go good with the Wellbutrin.
Before changing meds, if weight gain is an issue, check into them first. If not, then okay. I know for as good as I feel now, if I gained weight because of an AD, I'd surely slip right back into my funk.
Hang in there. Believe in yourself.
Posted by Zannah on February 12, 2001, at 22:45:33
In reply to Wellbutrin, Buspar and sleep....possible?, posted by Alii on February 12, 2001, at 10:53:15
Dear Alli~
I was prescribed 20 Ambien (10 mg.)for my first experience w/WB.
Big Help! I cannot function, even minimally, on low sleep. The Ambien did the trick and my side-effects lessened with time.
But I never took/take the WB after 2-3pm. It's just not worth the risk of a sleepless night. Remeron In combo with WB can promote terrific sleep. But Rem made me ravenous (24 hours a day), so I dropped it.
You made have to take a hypnotic, a benzo, a couple Benadryl or a sedating AD, just until you break back in to the WB routine. It took about 2-3 wks. for my sleep to regulate.And seriously, do not take the WB late in the day. It can be a Rx for sleep disaster.
I hope you are feeling much better very soon. I am pulling for you!
Zannah
> The sleeping pills aren't working now. I've been taking 30 mgs. before I try to go to bed and I feel so tired an hour after taking them (sooner now than I haven't been able to eat) but sleep is still elusive. When I did wake this morning I felt so ill, an effect the sleeping pills had been having as I've had to take them more than twice a week.
>
> I know I need to eat and I know I need to sleep. Any ideas? I'm so frazzled. I'm beyond decision making. The depression is hitting so hard and pulling me down so low.
Posted by Zannah on February 13, 2001, at 19:05:17
In reply to Wellbutrin, Buspar and sleep....possible?, posted by Alii on February 12, 2001, at 10:53:15
> Six hours til the pdoc appt
So, Alli~How'd it go???
Wishing you well~
Z.
Posted by Alii on February 13, 2001, at 23:02:07
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin, Buspar and sleep....possible? » Alii, posted by Zannah on February 13, 2001, at 19:05:17
It was good. But I'm in the middle of such fear right now. I do remember two years ago when I first started the WB and it made me so jittery and nauseated. At least I can remember that I did get through this back then so I've got to give it a shot now.
I've got to deal with the unemployment/disability thing tomorrow which is adding to my anxiety right now. I woke up crying this morning and gripped by the worst feelings. I did manage to take 7.5 mg temazepam after being up for two hours this morning once I was sure I wasn't going to be ill again. I was ill last night and again this morning. Last night, this morning and now tonight have been the really bad times. I had my friends come and take me to their house for the day but when I was feeling slightly better this afternoon I wanted to be brought back home. Now I am alone and low.
Very low. I did have something written out earlier about the visit with the pdoc but I can't deal with finding it right now. Brain is so scattered.
--Alii
Posted by Alii on February 14, 2001, at 19:46:46
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin, Buspar and sleep....possible?, posted by Zannah on February 12, 2001, at 22:45:33
Zannah--
What a beautiful name!
Now, please tell me if you would about how your sleep was disturbed. Like did you not get to sleep or not stay asleep? And how much Wb were you taking when you needed Ambien for sleep?
I never took the Wb late! I learned that lesson in the first year I took it. The silver lining of this deep painful funk right now is that I'm to immobilized to feel bad about having stopped the meds a few weeks back. Don't worry that guilt will kick in then the drugs do, right? dark humor please know I do understand that going off meds is sometimes part of the disease. Yet another quirky way my brain reacts to the unique chemical mix it has goin' on up there. Whatever will it think of next?
Remeron didn't work for me three or four years ago when I took it. Very dizzy and couldn't walk anywhere alone or drive. Not the most helpful for recovering from depression. Benedryl I overused to self medicate before I was first diagnosed several years ago and the very thought of using it again for sleep brings back the most unpleasant memories. I truly do appreciate every little hint at somethat that could help as I am feeling so forlorn.
Thanks for the reminder that I need sedation right now. I tend to resent and fear that fact. I don't want to become dependent on something for sleep. Again, I must gather my remaining wits and remind myself that sleep is good and much needed and not to worry about anything more than the immediate. Even then I'm feeling resigned to the blackness and can't do much anyway. Ugh.
The wait for relief drags on....
--Alii
Posted by Zannah on February 15, 2001, at 1:27:02
In reply to WB, Buspar and sleep....possible? » Zannah, posted by Alii on February 13, 2001, at 23:02:07
> It was good. But I'm in the middle of such fear right now. I do remember two years ago when I first started the WB and it made me so jittery and nauseated. At least I can remember that I did get through this back then so I've got to give it a shot now. >
So, your meds are now WB, buspar and temazepam?
Is it only the WB anxiety side-effect that is causing the nausea? The other 2 seem benign at this point?> I've got to deal with the unemployment/disability thing tomorrow which is adding to my anxiety right now. I woke up crying this morning and gripped by the worst feelings. I did manage to take 7.5 mg temazepam after being up for two hours this morning once I was sure I wasn't going to be ill again. I was ill last night and again this morning. Last night, this morning and now tonight have been the really bad times.
Alii~do you mean more physically, mentally, or emotionally ill?
I know it can be difficult to dissect/discern which symptoms are worse, when nada seems particularly great.But, if your nerves/anxiety or WB are wrecking your belly, it seems like this might be addressed with a drug such as Phenergan (promethazine hydrochloride).I have taken it to control the nausea caused by migraine, but promethazine is also used as a sedative and sleep aid. Helps (or prevents) nausea, calms, and promotes good sleep. The usual dose for nausea is 25mgs, double that for sedation/sleep. I don't know exactly how it's categorized, but, I think it is as an antihistamine, not a benzo.---anyone reading who knows proper classification, please chime in!
Therefore, I don't think phenergan is habit-forming aand the generic is dirt cheap.< I had my friends come and take me to their house for the day but when I was feeling slightly better this afternoon I wanted to be brought back home. Now I am alone and low.
You've got so much going on right now, I wouldn't know which way is up, much less be visiting w/friends! That is a great sign, that you are reaching out instead of doing the total isolation-'I am nothing but a fiber on this couch, watching movies I've seen a dozen times before, "nolo mi tendere"' routine I do every time I hit the pit.
>
> Very low. I did have something written out earlier about the visit with the pdoc but I can't deal with finding it right now. Brain is so scattered.
>
I had a nice long post I wrote to you around 7 a.m. today, but I couldn't get it to go thru. I saved it on a letter to myself, so, if ya need another windy message of support, just let me know.
I know you must be feeling terribly scattered, mentally and physically.
But you are posting and seeking, so, please press on!And please keep us updated
Onward and upward~
Zannah
Posted by Alii on February 18, 2001, at 13:26:19
In reply to Re: WB, Buspar and sleep....possible? » Alii, posted by Zannah on February 15, 2001, at 1:27:02
Feeling okay this morning. Too many things to attribute it to. I am now at 150 mg Wb a.m. along with 7.5 mg temazepam upon waking or soon thereafter-meaning after I've gotten physically sick once or twice. On an up note I didn't feel as sick upon waking this morning. I went to acupuncture yesterday and as always whenever I've received acupuncture in the past I fell asleep as soon as they put the needles in and left the room. I'm lucky to live in a coastal town that has a terrific TCM college with a sliding scale clinic. Again all I had to do was ask. I'm too low to muster my pride to feel guilty about having to 'take' so much help. I truly have no other choice. I'm in bad shape and can't be alone. But I digress, back to the acupuncture. After the treatment I was ravenous and finally ate a good sized portion of food. I even ate some broccoli and rice later in the evening. Last time I started this med two years ago I lost 20-25 lbs in no time. No hunger whatsoever. With the reduced fee for treatment I can go once a week.
I need to talk to the doc to find out what level Buspar he thinks I need to level out at. I'm at 15 mg a night working at 5 mg increases every few days to 25 mg I think. I haven't had to take the temazepam 30 mg for sleep for the past few nights I think because of the Buspar taken at night. I still wake at 3:30, 4, and 5 a.m. which is not regular for me ever. Quite the drag waking so early and not having the oomph to get anything done. I feel a prisoner to my inability to do anything. I keep reminding myself that I wouldn't be this hard on someone who just had a stroke or heart attack. I just had a brain storm which knocked me for a loop. I need to simplify and go slow. Not back to square one, I learn something different each time. Yesterday the darkness didn't settle on until way late at night as compared to around 4 p.m. previously in the week. Again I know the acupuncture helped, I'm lucky my pdoc is supportive of 'alternative' therapies in conjunction with meds as needed.
Whew! That was a rant. I'm still scared. Not all the time and that is an improvement. The early waking needs to go next. I'll take on these side effects one by one and somehow drag my battered, exhausted self beyond this current hellish episode.
A good pal has arranged for two hours tubbin' and sauna at this wonderful bamboo garden place near where I live. Private and quiet with fluffy towels and delicious tea. Since all of my friends that I have reached out to have expressed not knowing how to help when I tell them that just driving me places and talking to me as I'm sobbing through the latest brain short circuitry is more than enough, but since they keep insisting I now humbly say sure you can buy me two hours of quiet time to soak in hot water--super soothing for this depressed surfer who can't get back in the ocean just yet--or pay for two weeks of acupuncture. These Silicon Valley Internet warriors feel better when they can spend to solve. Am I wrong to lean so heavily on friends? I'm scared that if I didn't swallow my pride and reach out I would have ended up in the hospital racking up debt beyond my ability to pay or more likely dead. Which is why I'm back on medicine. I don't want to end up losing to this disease. But god damn why does this fight have to be so frickin' long and hard?!
Okay, now I'm really done ranting. Thanks for the info about the nausea pill. I printed that out to take to the pdoc on Friday this week. Still moment to moment. So very weary of this fight.
--Alii
Posted by Zannah on February 20, 2001, at 20:10:28
In reply to One Week Down... » Zannah, posted by Alii on February 18, 2001, at 13:26:19
> Feeling okay this morning. Too many things to attribute it to.
Good, good, good!
Sorry I have not responded (or even been reading the board) lately.
A pain flare had me sidelined for a few days.I plan to read more, and respond at greater length, soon.
p.s. Ambien is (I believe) classified as a 'hypnotic' sleeping pill. It acts quickly, & one is encouraged to go directly to bed after dosing. Then, allow 7-8 full hours for sleeping only. It can make some people a little weird (forgetful, etc.). Insomniacs seem to love it, or hate it.
You may want to research Sonata as well. It is used for 'early wakers' who have time for another 3-4 hrs. sleep. It can be taken in the middle of the night. Never tried it myself. It is new.Take care, Alii~
Zannah
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