![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 48. Go back in thread:
Posted by Mark on May 10, 1999, at 2:32:18
In reply to Re: Zoloft & Marijuana, posted by Toby on August 10, 1998, at 17:46:21
I agree with Toby 100% (as a psychiatry resident).
I would add that some ingredients in pot are
pro-convulsant (seizure) and some are
anti-convulsant (THC is one or the other, I can't
remember). This may or may not affect
mood stability and may or may not relate
to self-medication for folks suffering from
bipolar disorder. In the end, though, it is
a lousy self-medication and generally makes
depression and interpersonal relationships worse.
> Damn!! Levi has some great points. Go back and read his posting several times. And give it some strong thought.
> From my pont of view as a doc, Levi is right. I will never endorse marijuana or any other drug as a good thing. Let me tell you why. If we lived 500 years ago in Columbia and chewed coca leaves while we worked in the fields, or were a primitive culture using psychedelics during religious events to get in touch with the higher spirit plane or something, mind altering substances would be fine. However, in our culture, drugs are not used that way and 99% of the time when somebody says they are, it is crap. It's just an excuse that's being used to justify continued use in the face of ongoing problems with work, family, health, the law, etc. If it was really being used in a spiritual way, use would not be daily, it would be maybe every 6 months at the most (that's how the ancients used psychedelics). And even in ancient cultures, if someone misused the substances, they were thrown out of the society, so that isn't a modern invention. Today, the natural plants are adulterated with chemicals, refined beyond imagination and used in a haphazard way that bears no resemblance to "responsible" use. OK. That's it for the soap box.
> Now to your question: As far as I know, there is no "interaction" between any of the antidepressants and marijuana. By "interaction" I mean that the two won't mix and give a bad side effect or make the Zoloft "toxic" to your system. Now, that's as far as I know; these newer medications have only been out about 6 years or so and no one knows what may show up 10 years from now. One thing that is scientific fact: marijuana has properties that act like a depressant (like alcohol does) and can deplete the brain of norepinephrine and serotonin. Getting those chemical messed up can lead to depression, anxiety, obsessions and compulsions, panic, and psychosis (sometimes). When you take an antidepressant along with frequent use of pot, the pot basically prevents the antidepressant from working, no matter how much you increase the dose of the antidepressant (see my posting above listed under "Prozac and Body Weight" or something like that -- the same principle applies if you are taking the Zoloft for anxiety or OCD).
> My basic advice is to listen to Levi: stop the pot if you are having continued difficulties even on the prescribed medication(s). It will take several months for the pot to get out of your fatty tissue so that you can see what your real baseline is. Once there, the medications can be adjusted to the proper doses. If you feel good, maybe you will be inclined to choose not to return to pot. If you do go back and the bad feelings return, get a clue and stay off the pot for good. And think of it as your choice, not being forced to by the establishment.
>
Posted by Mark on May 10, 1999, at 2:37:08
In reply to Re: Zoloft & Marijuana, posted by jake on September 1, 1998, at 13:35:08
I would add two things---I forgot to mention
that any one using MJ or any drug should
let their MD know--insurance shouldn't be
an issue.The other thing is--just be aware that
pot shrinks testicles, kills sperm cells,
mutates DNA in sperm (and can contribute
to birth defects. Just a thought. (I won't
even get into what gets into the weed when it's
sold on the street--it can be dirtier than
St. John's Wort with urine and tar and pesticides--
Zoloft is FDA regulated with no piss or shit
or pesticides--MJ is people regulated and only
rarely pure.
> I concur, 50mg a day of vitamin Z and 5-10 great hits - feeling wonderful
> > I am a 27 year old male who is on 50mg of Zoloft per day. I also smoke
> > >marijuana daily (once a day, small amounts). I am scared to ask my current
> > >Dr. the effects this could have for insurance reasons. The only info I have found
> > >said interaction was highly variable. Can anyone take a moment and elaborate
> > >further on this? I have noticed no effect from the combination, and the
> > >Zoloft seems to be working for the anxiety, or at least reduced it. Any
> > >info would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > >A sincere thanks for your valuable time,
> > >
> > >Joel (North Carolina)
Posted by Robin on May 11, 1999, at 0:51:20
In reply to Zoloft & Marijuana, posted by Joel on July 29, 1998, at 17:45:18
> I am a 27 year old male who is on 50mg of Zoloft per day. I also smoke
> >marijuana daily (once a day, small amounts). I am scared to ask my current
> >Dr. the effects this could have for insurance reasons. The only info I have found
> >said interaction was highly variable. Can anyone take a moment and elaborate
> >further on this? I have noticed no effect from the combination, and the
> >Zoloft seems to be working for the anxiety, or at least reduced it. Any
> >info would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >A sincere thanks for your valuable time,
> >
> >Joel (North Carolina)Dear Joel:
I read with great interest your query regarding the possible interactions between marijuana and the anti- depressant medication "Zoloft" which you are currently taking. Like all comments which you will read in this forum, those which I have outlined below should not be construed as being scientifically conclusive. Therefore I would urge you to check out what follows, with a competent medical authority.
Some years ago, I was prescribed an anti- depressant medication (an MAO compound) . Since I had failed to obtain any symptomatic relief from this drug after being on it for several months, I decided to experiment with marijuana in order to see if this would enhance the efficacy of the antidepressant.
Significantly, after smoking quite a bit of pot, I discovered that I could obtain complete remission from my depression, albeit for short periods of time (3-4 hours). Unfortunately, as I soon learned, I could not sustain this result with any consistency. After some reflection, I concluded this could be due to any number of reasons: i.e.. varying levels of THC in the marijuana , the amount of pot which I ingested &/ or metabolized on each occasion, etc. Thus since I could not achieve a sustained result, and given the fact that I was taking unknown risks by combining two psychoactive agents, I eventually abandoned this therapeutic avenue.
However over the ensuing years, with each successive physician whom I consulted, I raised the question as to why the marijuana had had such a salutary effect with me. Not surprisingly, given the lack of scientific information available to the average practitioner on such matters, I received no satisfactory explainations. In point of fact, most physicians to whom I talked about this matter, simply indicated that the remedial effect which I had experienced with pot, was most likely due to a psychological reaction ( i.e. it made me feel more relaxed which inturn induced symptomatic relief from the depression ). Needless to say I found this explaination somewhat wanting.
Last December, I stumbled upon an article on depression which provided an apparent explaination of this phenomena. You can find this article on the internet at http://www.biopsychiatry.com (I will return to this article in a moment.)
To understand the significance of what I came across, you have to know a bit neurobiology & neurobiochemistry. You may very well be up to speed on this but on the off chance that you are not, let me briefly outline a bit of the scientific background on depression that you will need to be familiar with . What follows is taken from an article in the magazine Scientific American which you can read in full on the internet at http://www.sciam.com/1998/0698issue/0698nemeroff.html
Building upon investigations done in the late 60's and early 70's, researchers have shown that unmedicated depressed patients have a dysregulation of the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal (HPA) axis - the system in the brain that manages the body's response to stress. "When a threat to physical or psychological well being is detected, the hypothalamus amplifies the production of corticotrophin-releasing factor (CRF), which induces the pituitary to secrete ACTH . ACTH then instructs the adrenal gland atop each kidney to release cortisol... Together all of these changes .... (serve to produce a) chronic activation of the HPA axis (and) ... lay the ground for ...depression. (In particuliar) ...aberrations in CRF-producing neurons of the hypothalamus... bear most of the responsibility for HPA axis hyperactivity and the emergence of depressive symptoms... This magnification of CRF levels is reduced by treatment with antidepressants ..."
These findings have recently prompted drug companies to begin looking for agents that will effectively block the action of CRF. Diminishing CRF activity in the HPA axis will therefore (theoretically) produce an antidepressant effect.
The first article which I mentioned above ( at http://www.biopsychiatry.com ) , contains the following citation. " Experiments with stoned rats suggest ( that marijuana) reduces the amount of corticotrophin-releasing factor in the brain area known as the amygdala. " Since the amygdala lies in close proximity to the hypothalamus , it stands to reason that marijuana might also produce an antidepressant effect by similiarly blocking the production of CRF in this area of the brain as well.
This might explain why you feel better when you smoke pot.
However even if this is substantiated by further research in humans, there are two problems with using marijuana as an antidepressant.
First and perhaps most obviously, it is difficult to function coherently when one is "stoned "
Secondly, there is a rebound surge of CRF production upon ceasing the use of cannabis. This may be associated with increased vulnerability to stress and a withdrawal-reaction.
Where does this leave you Joel ?
If you do benefit from taking pot in conjunction with the particuliar antidepressant that you are on, you may wish to try the new CRF antagonist agents that are now under development. These will probably come to trial in another year or so and if successful , will be available over the counter in another 3-5 years .
In the meantime, if you don't wish to inhale, you might want to investigate the cannabis analog Nabalone that was developed several years ago by the Eli Lilly Co. It is commonly prescribed to cancer patients to alleviate symptoms of nausea and evidently does not produce the euphoria that is common to marijuana. However I would strongly urge you seek the counsel of your attending physician in assessing whether or not this is a viable option for you . I honestly cannot advise you about this one way or the other since I completely lack any medical knowledge.
Hope the preceding has been of some help to you.
Posted by saint james on May 11, 1999, at 15:44:20
In reply to Re: Zoloft & Marijuana, posted by Robin on May 11, 1999, at 0:51:20
> In the meantime, if you don't wish to inhale, you might want to investigate the cannabis analog Nabalone that was developed several years ago by the Eli Lilly Co. It is commonly prescribed to cancer patients to alleviate symptoms of nausea and evidently does not produce the euphoria that is common to marijuana. However I would strongly urge you seek the counsel of your attending physician in assessing whether or not this is a viable option for you . I honestly cannot advise you about this one way or the other since I completely lack any medical knowledge.
>
> Hope the preceding has been of some help to you.James here...
The only problem with Maranol and others is that THC is the only thing in pot studided and Pot has many unknown substances. I know a number of AIDS people who have tried Marinol and find it to be not like pot and prefer pot (smoked) because it improves mood and the most important issue, nausea
hunger, ect. It seems really silly to give someone a "Pot Pill" when they can't keep anything down, esp when ypou can just smoke it, avoiding the GI totally.I smoke pot from time to time and my doc knows. If I am doing well mentally it is enjoyable but
I have learned if I am in a depression I can start me continually mulling over the same depressive thoughts.I feel the biggest problem with pot is it legal status. Other than that moderation is the key. Excessive pot smoking will leave you apethitic all the time.
j
Posted by Unknown on May 12, 1999, at 10:37:08
In reply to Re: Zoloft & Marijuana, posted by Mark on May 10, 1999, at 2:37:08
> I would add two things---I forgot to mention
> that any one using MJ or any drug should
> let their MD know--insurance shouldn't be
> an issue.
>
> The other thing is--just be aware that
> pot shrinks testicles, kills sperm cells,
> mutates DNA in sperm (and can contribute
> to birth defects. Just a thought. (I won't
> even get into what gets into the weed when it's
> sold on the street--it can be dirtier than
> St. John's Wort with urine and tar and pesticides--
> Zoloft is FDA regulated with no piss or shit
> or pesticides--MJ is people regulated and only
> rarely pure.Please, wake up, u're talking about weed or heroin? No further discussion needed, thank u.
Posted by Dawn on May 15, 1999, at 8:47:44
In reply to Re: Zoloft & Marijuana, posted by Unknown on May 12, 1999, at 10:37:08
> > I would add two things---I forgot to mention
> > that any one using MJ or any drug should
> > let their MD know--insurance shouldn't be
> > an issue.
> >
> > The other thing is--just be aware that
> > pot shrinks testicles, kills sperm cells,
> > mutates DNA in sperm (and can contribute
> > to birth defects. Just a thought. (I won't
> > even get into what gets into the weed when it's
> > sold on the street--it can be dirtier than
> > St. John's Wort with urine and tar and pesticides--
> > Zoloft is FDA regulated with no piss or shit
> > or pesticides--MJ is people regulated and only
> > rarely pure.
>
> Please, wake up, u're talking about weed or heroin? No further discussion needed, thank u.
> > Thank you "unknown" crack is one thing something that is already being used in the medical field shouldn't be judged so harshly. WAKE UP EVERYONE. Please refer to Normal's homepage for further education.
Posted by Daniel on May 20, 1999, at 6:15:12
In reply to Re: Zoloft & Marijuana, posted by Dawn on May 15, 1999, at 8:47:44
Hello everybody,
This is not about Zoloft&MJ, this is about MJ before Zoloft.
I had had downcast moods and other typical symptoms of a mild depression for a long time, but I considered them to be never so "terrible" so as to seek any psychiatric help (especially in my country, where anyone who has to do anything with psychiatry is "stigmatized"). From time to time I would slip into a major depression but it would slowly subside after a month or so. A friend of mine (M.D.) called it "seasonal mood swings". I don't think these major downcasts were related to seasonal pattern, they were probably just responses to stressors which are part of everybody's everyday life. Only my ability to cope with them (especially more serious) is somewhat diminished.
Last year I and my brother grew our own pot (which is legally permitted here in the Netherlands) in the backyard garden (unfortunately we don't have a greenhouse). The weather was quite humid but also rather cold, so I don't know about the quality of our pot - the contents of THC, THCV, CBD, or CBN (the latter two being products of THC "degradation" when a plant is "overripe" causing mainly weariness and sleep after smoking instead of a "high").
At that time I felt generally fine, just before my first encounter with this mind-expanding and very mildly psychedelic substance. I discovered very soon that frequent smoking (every other day) would build tolerance and result in generally "numb" states as opposed to smoking just once a week, when a "high" was the "high."
So I followed this pattern, smoking just once a week, usually on the weekends. However, after about a month, I observed a pretty regular pattern following my weekend "sessions": the next day I would feel "elevated" - generally energized and happy. But after a day or two I would suffer from a "crash" - real major depression - and that would last for the next 4 to 5 days. (My brother on no single ocassion experienced anything like this).
After a month of such experience (smoking again only after getting "sober" = depressive symptoms no longer present) I decided to quit. Everything returned back to normal within the usual 4 to 5 days. So I smoked again for a short period of time but after experiencing the same crashes again I decided to quit once and for all.
Only this time, the symptoms did not disappear after the usual 4 - 5 days, and after about 3 weeks of suffering I sought help of a psychiatrist. I was given Zoloft 100 mgs a day which kicked in and I am about to go off the med in 2 months.
Despite the fact that my "primary chemical imbalance" (which has been there for a long time) was drastically worsened by smoking pot, I am glad I went through this because it finally made me seek professional help which I would't have done otherwise.
I never smoked MJ while on Zoloft, so I can't tell you anything about that.
As far as the so called "amotivational syndrome" is concerned, I believe that it does not exist on its own, but rather is one of the symptoms of depression. (Pot is believed to tamper with norepinephrine levels which has to do with motivation and drive). Toby or Elisabeth will surely know more about it.
I am not a psychiatrist resident, but as far as shrinked testicles are concerned, there are chemicals in chocolate that cause the same thing.
As far as DNA mutations and chromozomal damage is concerned, there are loads of chemicals causing even more serious damage including aspirine.
Regards,
Daniel
> > > I would add two things---I forgot to mention
> > > that any one using MJ or any drug should
> > > let their MD know--insurance shouldn't be
> > > an issue.
> > >
> > > The other thing is--just be aware that
> > > pot shrinks testicles, kills sperm cells,
> > > mutates DNA in sperm (and can contribute
> > > to birth defects. Just a thought. (I won't
> > > even get into what gets into the weed when it's
> > > sold on the street--it can be dirtier than
> > > St. John's Wort with urine and tar and pesticides--
> > > Zoloft is FDA regulated with no piss or shit
> > > or pesticides--MJ is people regulated and only
> > > rarely pure.
> >
> > Please, wake up, u're talking about weed or heroin? No further discussion needed, thank u.
> > > Thank you "unknown" crack is one thing something that is already being used in the medical field shouldn't be judged so harshly. WAKE UP EVERYONE. Please refer to Normal's homepage for further education.
Posted by Mike on March 4, 2000, at 11:45:57
In reply to Re: Zoloft & Marijuana, posted by Honey on May 6, 1999, at 13:05:02
I have been taking Zoloft for abought 9 months
and smoked MJ. Can anyone tell me if Zoloft slows
down the metabolism which could slow down the
excretion rate of MJ in the body after stopping smoking MJ.
Please let me know of any expierences you may
know about this. msj@arn.net
Posted by putih on March 6, 2000, at 14:40:13
In reply to Re: Zoloft Marijuana, posted by Mike on March 4, 2000, at 11:45:57
My boyfriend was using antidepressant AND smoking marijana. I asked in this list whether any effect where known, and it seems little is known.
What I want to tell you is that he got psychotic, lasting know for more then a month. I did some more searches and marihuana can also cause psychosis, specially for people that are having hard times.
I never thought about marihuana as dangerous, don't know if it IS the cause, just think twice.
Don't want to lecture here, but I got really scared about what I saw him going through.Putih
Posted by PattyG on March 6, 2000, at 15:03:50
In reply to Re: Zoloft Marijuana, posted by putih on March 6, 2000, at 14:40:13
Hello,
I remember your posts. I'm not sure, however, that I remember if we ever discussed what your boyfriend's diagnosis is. Why was he prescribed the antidepressant and which one was he taking? The additional information might help us make a better determination regarding such instances.
Posted by putih on March 6, 2000, at 15:09:35
In reply to Re: Zoloft Marijuana, posted by PattyG on March 6, 2000, at 15:03:50
> Hello,
>
> I remember your posts. I'm not sure, however, that I remember if we ever discussed what your boyfriend's diagnosis is. Why was he prescribed the antidepressant and which one was he taking? The additional information might help us make a better determination regarding such instances.Hello to you too,
There is no diagnosis yet, at first he was diagnosed "depressed". He got first seroxat and then Effexor.
For an update on the situation you canalso read my last post "how to deal with a psychotic person".
See you there?Putih
Posted by Ken on May 20, 2000, at 3:36:02
In reply to Re: Zoloft Marijuana, posted by putih on March 6, 2000, at 15:09:35
I would like to add my side of the story for those of you wondering about the effects of zoloft and marijuana mixed together.
During high school a couple of my friends kept boasting about how excellent the two drugs were in combination. I was experiementing with LSD around this time and upon hearing this, I was sceptical. One weekend the four of us decided to get together at my friends lake cottage and test it out. We each took about five pills. After only thirty minutes and one joint it was clear that we hadn't just smoked marijuana.As the sun set and the night took over things only grew more and more surreal. And of course we continued to smoke. Two hours later and feeling (physically, not mentally) like what I thought was probably like a cocaine high (never tried it)
we all agreed that we were, without a doubt experiencing some sort of psycedelia. However far different than LSD, or hallucigenic mushrooms. Odd in it's own way.
Visually things grew more and more defined and my friends and I started talking less and less. Reality and my imagination seemed to join hands. It seemed that any image in my head would soon try to enter my visual field. After another hour as I hit the bowl of marijuana and passed it to my friend, off in what appeared to be the distance, a figure formed in the sky of the tent. When I finally made it out, it swooped over the top of my head. A TERADACTOL!!! It was only the size of my hand. I laughed out in amazement. Not a bit scared and totally knowing what caused the hallucination. I told my friends who were all locked in there own separate worlds. I didn't get much more of a response than whaooo!! but I knew they completley believed me and could tell they were experiencing similar things.As my trip continued more and more teredactols formed and swooped right passed me. They looked and flew just how you see them on television, but only 20 times smaller. Then bats joined and in and rapidly flapped around the tent. Bugs and spiders quickley formed all over the tent ceiling and would crawl over the top of my head where I was laying and then fell on my face. I could feel them! Taking a glance away I could see my friends hesterically laughing as swatting away there own hallucinations. We all went into trance.....
After that I have no memory of the rest of that night. Neither do my friends.
The next evening was even more bizarre, but that' s a different story.
In conclusion, I didn't tell this story to promote this drug interaction. I am actually against doctors prescibing Zoloft and other anitdepressants (in a lot of cases). For those of you who made previous posts bragging about how you are taking zoloft prescripition and frequently smoking marijuana at the same time, I worry for you sincerely. This is not a mind alteration to enter on a regular basis.That would be the road to serious mental illness. I urge all Zoloft users to try to get off of it. If that can't be done now, then I don't recommend frequent mixing of it with ANY other drug. Chances are you are taking Zoloft for some sort of mental problem, and I guarentee abuse of this powerful and very underestimated psycoactive drug will only make things worse for you in the end.
Posted by illb on September 28, 2000, at 14:26:25
In reply to Re: Zoloft Marijuana, posted by Ken on May 20, 2000, at 3:36:02
> I would like to add my side of the story for those of you wondering about the effects of zoloft and marijuana mixed together.
>
> During high school a couple of my friends kept boasting about how excellent the two drugs were in combination. I was experiementing with LSD around this time and upon hearing this, I was sceptical. One weekend the four of us decided to get together at my friends lake cottage and test it out. We each took about five pills. After only thirty minutes and one joint it was clear that we hadn't just smoked marijuana.
>
> As the sun set and the night took over things only grew more and more surreal. And of course we continued to smoke. Two hours later and feeling (physically, not mentally) like what I thought was probably like a cocaine high (never tried it)
> we all agreed that we were, without a doubt experiencing some sort of psycedelia. However far different than LSD, or hallucigenic mushrooms. Odd in it's own way.
>
> Visually things grew more and more defined and my friends and I started talking less and less. Reality and my imagination seemed to join hands. It seemed that any image in my head would soon try to enter my visual field. After another hour as I hit the bowl of marijuana and passed it to my friend, off in what appeared to be the distance, a figure formed in the sky of the tent. When I finally made it out, it swooped over the top of my head. A TERADACTOL!!! It was only the size of my hand. I laughed out in amazement. Not a bit scared and totally knowing what caused the hallucination. I told my friends who were all locked in there own separate worlds. I didn't get much more of a response than whaooo!! but I knew they completley believed me and could tell they were experiencing similar things.
>
> As my trip continued more and more teredactols formed and swooped right passed me. They looked and flew just how you see them on television, but only 20 times smaller. Then bats joined and in and rapidly flapped around the tent. Bugs and spiders quickley formed all over the tent ceiling and would crawl over the top of my head where I was laying and then fell on my face. I could feel them! Taking a glance away I could see my friends hesterically laughing as swatting away there own hallucinations. We all went into trance.....
>
> After that I have no memory of the rest of that night. Neither do my friends.
>
> The next evening was even more bizarre, but that' s a different story.
>
> In conclusion, I didn't tell this story to promote this drug interaction. I am actually against doctors prescibing Zoloft and other anitdepressants (in a lot of cases). For those of you who made previous posts bragging about how you are taking zoloft prescripition and frequently smoking marijuana at the same time, I worry for you sincerely. This is not a mind alteration to enter on a regular basis.That would be the road to serious mental illness. I urge all Zoloft users to try to get off of it. If that can't be done now, then I don't recommend frequent mixing of it with ANY other drug. Chances are you are taking Zoloft for some sort of mental problem, and I guarentee abuse of this powerful and very underestimated psycoactive drug will only make things worse for you in the end.I was just wondering if zoloft, birthcontrol and stacker2 is going to make me loose my minD/
Posted by KarenP on October 6, 2000, at 9:12:20
In reply to Re: Zoloft Marijuana, posted by illb on September 28, 2000, at 14:26:25
I have been taking Lustral as Zoloft is known in UK on and off for over three years. I was admitted to a local in-patient hospital three weeks ago and while there was seriously advised not to smoke any cannabis at all while on these drugs or while depressed. A number of people in the hospital with me were there due to paranoia bought on by cannabis addiction. Don't get me wrong I've smoked for well over 12 years but have found my anxiety has begun to reduce since stopping (no mean feat in itself actually). I would discourage the use of any other mood altering substances legal or otherwise whilst trying to stablise yourself mentally.
Posted by pullmarine on October 11, 2000, at 22:24:59
In reply to Re: Zoloft Marijuana, posted by illb on September 28, 2000, at 14:26:25
Sorry, but this post goes to show that you just can't believe evrything you read and hear.
john
> > I would like to add my side of the story for those of you wondering about the effects of zoloft and marijuana mixed together.
> >
> > During high school a couple of my friends kept boasting about how excellent the two drugs were in combination. I was experiementing with LSD around this time and upon hearing this, I was sceptical. One weekend the four of us decided to get together at my friends lake cottage and test it out. We each took about five pills. After only thirty minutes and one joint it was clear that we hadn't just smoked marijuana.
> >
> > As the sun set and the night took over things only grew more and more surreal. And of course we continued to smoke. Two hours later and feeling (physically, not mentally) like what I thought was probably like a cocaine high (never tried it)
> > we all agreed that we were, without a doubt experiencing some sort of psycedelia. However far different than LSD, or hallucigenic mushrooms. Odd in it's own way.
> >
> > Visually things grew more and more defined and my friends and I started talking less and less. Reality and my imagination seemed to join hands. It seemed that any image in my head would soon try to enter my visual field. After another hour as I hit the bowl of marijuana and passed it to my friend, off in what appeared to be the distance, a figure formed in the sky of the tent. When I finally made it out, it swooped over the top of my head. A TERADACTOL!!! It was only the size of my hand. I laughed out in amazement. Not a bit scared and totally knowing what caused the hallucination. I told my friends who were all locked in there own separate worlds. I didn't get much more of a response than whaooo!! but I knew they completley believed me and could tell they were experiencing similar things.
> >
> > As my trip continued more and more teredactols formed and swooped right passed me. They looked and flew just how you see them on television, but only 20 times smaller. Then bats joined and in and rapidly flapped around the tent. Bugs and spiders quickley formed all over the tent ceiling and would crawl over the top of my head where I was laying and then fell on my face. I could feel them! Taking a glance away I could see my friends hesterically laughing as swatting away there own hallucinations. We all went into trance.....
> >
> > After that I have no memory of the rest of that night. Neither do my friends.
> >
> > The next evening was even more bizarre, but that' s a different story.
> >
> > In conclusion, I didn't tell this story to promote this drug interaction. I am actually against doctors prescibing Zoloft and other anitdepressants (in a lot of cases). For those of you who made previous posts bragging about how you are taking zoloft prescripition and frequently smoking marijuana at the same time, I worry for you sincerely. This is not a mind alteration to enter on a regular basis.That would be the road to serious mental illness. I urge all Zoloft users to try to get off of it. If that can't be done now, then I don't recommend frequent mixing of it with ANY other drug. Chances are you are taking Zoloft for some sort of mental problem, and I guarentee abuse of this powerful and very underestimated psycoactive drug will only make things worse for you in the end.
>
> I was just wondering if zoloft, birthcontrol and stacker2 is going to make me loose my minD/
Posted by Trippin981819254 on November 3, 2000, at 15:20:49
In reply to Re: Zoloft & Marijuana, posted by saint james on May 11, 1999, at 15:44:20
> > In the meantime, if you don't wish to inhale, you might want to investigate the cannabis analog Nabalone that was developed several years ago by the Eli Lilly Co. It is commonly prescribed to cancer patients to alleviate symptoms of nausea and evidently does not produce the euphoria that is common to marijuana. However I would strongly urge you seek the counsel of your attending physician in assessing whether or not this is a viable option for you . I honestly cannot advise you about this one way or the other since I completely lack any medical knowledge.
> >
> > Hope the preceding has been of some help to you.
>
> James here...
>
> The only problem with Maranol and others is that THC is the only thing in pot studided and Pot has many unknown substances. I know a number of AIDS people who have tried Marinol and find it to be not like pot and prefer pot (smoked) because it improves mood and the most important issue, nausea
> hunger, ect. It seems really silly to give someone a "Pot Pill" when they can't keep anything down, esp when ypou can just smoke it, avoiding the GI totally.
>
> I smoke pot from time to time and my doc knows. If I am doing well mentally it is enjoyable but
> I have learned if I am in a depression I can start me continually mulling over the same depressive thoughts.
>
> I feel the biggest problem with pot is it legal status. Other than that moderation is the key. Excessive pot smoking will leave you apethitic all the time.
>
> jI've been smoking marijauna for 32 years and have been suffering for 34 years from an illnes that top military doctors could not treat and attribute a longer and healthier life to smoking marijauna. I have not suffered from any ill side affects from smoking, aside from brief periods of over-party burn-out. I dont think that they will ever develope a pill that will be as effective as smoking a joint. Aside from the debate over each pill delivering an accurate dosage for the buzz one wants versus a dosage for an intended treatment all this is really mind-boggleing.
I've also had the misfortune of being a casualty in the war on drugs thrice and I say that it is time for all of us to rise up against this governmental slaying of our rights to smoke marijauna and bring this harmless weed back into our society.
Posted by Buffet on November 6, 2000, at 15:58:15
In reply to Re: Zoloft Marijuana, posted by Trippin981819254 on November 3, 2000, at 15:20:49
I've been smoking marijauna for 32 years and have been suffering for 34 years from an illnes that top military doctors could not treat and attribute a longer and healthier life to smoking marijauna. I have not suffered from any ill side affects from smoking, aside from brief periods of over-party burn-out. I dont think that they will ever develope a pill that will be as effective as smoking a joint. Aside from the debate over each pill delivering an accurate dosage for the buzz one wants versus a dosage for an intended treatment all this is really mind-boggleing.
> I've also had the misfortune of being a casualty in the war on drugs thrice and I say that it is time for all of us to rise up against this governmental slaying of our rights to smoke marijauna and bring this harmless weed back into our society.
--------------
Amen......It's time to rise up and take down those bastard.....uhhhhh....dOOd, I'm so ripped...what was I saying again?....oh yah, pass me the J, I need a...damnit, what was I saying...dOOd im soooooo high... ; )I say keep the stuff under control somehow. If they can make it into a pill, great. Make it a prescription drug. It has some potential for a medicine, but a person without AIDS/cancer/etc doesn't need it. I didn't need it and wish I hadn't had the access to it that I had. It did nothing for me, the key word being nothing. I'm in agreement that the stiff penalties of law against weed should be relaxed, but total legalization is asking for even more social problems than we have today. Look at what alcohol, tobacco, etc have done, and, who is benefiting from the profits? You make it legal, Philip Morris and RJ Renolds will have a heyday!!
Sorry, just ranting somewhat incoherently.
Posted by michie on November 28, 2000, at 21:28:48
In reply to Re: Zoloft & Marijuana, posted by Levi on August 9, 1998, at 1:08:32
Hi, I have a friend who is on zoloft and did cocaine for the first time yesterday. She said she didn't feel any effects from the cocaine, could this be because of the zoloft?
> > I am a 27 year old male who is on 50mg of Zoloft per day. I also smoke
> > >marijuana daily (once a day, small amounts). I am scared to ask my current
> > >Dr. the effects this could have for insurance reasons. The only info I have found
> > >said interaction was highly variable. Can anyone take a moment and elaborate
> > >further on this? I have noticed no effect from the combination, and the
> > >Zoloft seems to be working for the anxiety, or at least reduced it. Any
> > >info would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > >A sincere thanks for your valuable time,
> > >
> > >Joel (North Carolina)> -----------------Joel, I went through the same thing. Smoked everyday, and was on an SSRI a Benzodiazepine(s) and even a neuroleptic. I'll tell you the truth about all this, inasmuch as my experience can be related. I don't know why you take Zoloft. I'm assuming for some affective (depressive condition, or OCD - maybe something else.) Perhaps there are other meds you take perhaps not. I'll deal with the question as I dealt with it. I was Highly addicted to pot. Every day. Years on end. I too took an SSRI, but we diverge because of other meds - but I can still relate what I have come to understand. I, too, was not just a "social" smoker. It was before I did something. And a treat afterwords. Always had a bag - wasn't "bumping" into pot, I was chasing it - basically, and I hate to sound pc - but I think it was, at least when I was closer to and then on meds, a form of self-medication - as you have already pondered extensivelly, I assume. In truth, there were benefits to smoking while on a med (The Docs won't like it, but I'll limit to an SSRI, for in the beginning that's pretty much what was happening.) Cocaine, which I have always thought of as "evil" (I won't mention my actions) is the perfect antidepressent - even Freud was caught up in it - but he had his head in a whole - PUN intended. Pot can turn a mediocre, average, boring "brain state" into a new insight, a new exitement, a relief, a "clearer" perspective - It goes on, as you well know. I stopped - after many, many years of everyday usage. I was not any other "heavy" user of anything else - but I always had a bowl and weed. After, say, a year of being off pot I got positive responses from people who knew me when I was smoking, who noticed the difference. I too notice a difference - now there is 2 questions - Do I give a damn if someone says I'm "better" now? Also, what about my internal state. On this I'd like to say that there are things that I cannot do, or understand in depth as I could on while I was smoking. Anybody who demands that pot dulls the brain and ceases creativity is either a moron who has no history of use, or some know-it-all who is an"ex" user and has to justify his life by fighting pot promotion,etc. I'm neutral. My case is, of course, different than yours. Feelings aside, if you are accomplishing something that is productive - which helps you or your family or friends - could be money, could just be charity - than tell the NA people to screw off. Tell them to screw off anyway - I had minimal contact and they are a cult, although I guess some people benefit from it - good if they can. On a different note, if you are "stuck" in a pot "rut" (you understand) and you look carefully and see that you are not doing what you want or think you should be doing, and then attribute this limitation to smoking, then I think you should take the issue as a benefits/disbenefits spectrum. When one has more associated disbenefits, then one can say that the smoking is habit, the person wants to stop (but really doesn't) - it has become rote. Taking Zoloft every day/night is also rote. But it's benefits are strong enough to warrant the usage. With the addition of pot, it could be working better - although this is not "scientifically" "proved" and no MD. is going to endorse it. The question is - how do YOU feel about the combination. Perhaps like me. I got benefits from both the med and the pot. But I got this constant "we can't really get a clear picture of 'what's going on' because smoking pot is interfering." From all sides!! My diagnosis could not be clear because symptoms of pot in many ways mimic symptoms of a "psychiatric" disorder. Perhaps they are contributing to the disorder, perhaps they are helping. The POINT is that you don't know (I'm speaking as if I am you) - and you can't come to any "valid" conclusions concerning disorder, addiction, medication, life circumstances when you don't know if the pot is good or bad. Tha's why I quit. Now Ican say I have this brain Disease...My Brain goes like this, etc. - and I have the relief of leaving pot Out of the picture - and that, to me is a comfortable thing. The pressure is gone - and its relief just a different relief from the effects of smoking. This is respectable relief - not that I live by what is or is not "respectable". But it does say something. Disorders and pot don't work - even though I still stand by my neutral position. It just makes the situation clearer and gets pressure off your shoulders.
> I never thought I could quit. It took about 3-4 mos. before I started to "forget" that I smoked pot. From then on, It was easy, or at least not so difficult. BUT - there is one point that everybody makes and I, myself, must agree - don't be around people WHEN they are smoking. If they come to your house stoned, good for them. But don't look at it, or smell it, or be near a bowl, bong, or joint. This, I think, is a real Rule in order to succeed. If you chose to quit, you obviously have your own personal reasons. But it sucks in the begining, but you will notice the "laziness" of smokers - even though they may be creative, fun, productive hippie or yuppie whatevers. If you say "some day I'll quit - I'm not ready" don't quit!! Believe what you say. When you are ready you will quit. The best advice: just quit and get the damn thing over with. If you honestly feel that it is more of a negative than a positive - than take the giant, quite (initially) depressing leap, and hands off. But watch out for the cults like NA - a pot smoker doesn't usually need that crap. One more thing, perhaps there is a medication that will, so to speak, fill in the 'gap" if you quit. I know many people who quit and end up being prescribed legal addictive, controlled substances. You are supervised by your Doc, and its legal - and, most importantly, you may feel that one or another Med is just what you needed...
Posted by CraigF on November 29, 2000, at 12:20:04
In reply to Re: Zoloft cocaine, posted by michie on November 28, 2000, at 21:28:48
Hey michie...
I have found just the opposite. Before taking an SSRI, I never liked cocaine. I felt like I spent to much money for something that made me anxious and sit around grinding my teeth.
On the meds however, with my anxiety and self control both greatly reduced, it's quite hard to control myself around it.
On the topic of pot, I started freaking out big time after three years of smoking due to anxiety problems. SSRIs remove the anxiety and allow me to enjoy the pot like I used to.
Posted by Michie on November 29, 2000, at 20:31:24
In reply to Re: Zoloft cocaine, posted by CraigF on November 29, 2000, at 12:20:04
Well, I guess I am trying to say this...I tried it for the first time, and actually I really didn't feel any different than before I tried it. Does the zoloft reduce the effects of cocaine?
Michie
> Hey michie...
>
> I have found just the opposite. Before taking an SSRI, I never liked cocaine. I felt like I spent to much money for something that made me anxious and sit around grinding my teeth.
>
> On the meds however, with my anxiety and self control both greatly reduced, it's quite hard to control myself around it.
>
> On the topic of pot, I started freaking out big time after three years of smoking due to anxiety problems. SSRIs remove the anxiety and allow me to enjoy the pot like I used to.
Posted by ecuadoriang on March 18, 2002, at 14:59:05
In reply to Re: Zoloft cocaine » CraigF, posted by Michie on November 29, 2000, at 20:31:24
Guys, I'm quite concerned about this. This is how i reached this page. I'm under psych. treatment, taking 150mg of Zoloft, I don't know how much Rivotril and someother medication. I'm smoking pot daily, inhaling cocaine once or twice a week, and even tried inhaling heroin this last weeks. I'm not that much of a drinker, but I do drink (not until geting druk) every weekend. I've felt no side effects, or maybe I haven't noticed them. I read something about a desease that can be caused by mixing drugs with Zoloft.
I would really apreciate if someone could tell me about their experience or knowledge on this subject. Sometimes I get really scared, I don't want to have any attack or something, but since I haven't noticed any reaction, I haven't stopped.
Thank you a lot for reading this!
Ecuadoriang
Posted by jay on March 18, 2002, at 16:58:16
In reply to ZOLOFT COCAINE MARIJUANA!! » Michie, posted by ecuadoriang on March 18, 2002, at 14:59:05
> Guys, I'm quite concerned about this. This is how i reached this page. I'm under psych. treatment, taking 150mg of Zoloft, I don't know how much Rivotril and someother medication. I'm smoking pot daily, inhaling cocaine once or twice a week, and even tried inhaling heroin this last weeks. I'm not that much of a drinker, but I do drink (not until geting druk) every weekend. I've felt no side effects, or maybe I haven't noticed them. I read something about a desease that can be caused by mixing drugs with Zoloft.
>
> I would really apreciate if someone could tell me about their experience or knowledge on this subject. Sometimes I get really scared, I don't want to have any attack or something, but since I haven't noticed any reaction, I haven't stopped.
>
> Thank you a lot for reading this!
>
> EcuadoriangHi...I wish I had more specific info for you, but you may want to search the web, if possible. I think much of your fear is from all of the "scare" tactics and crap used by the antidrug industry, but I would have a bit of concern about the coke and zoloft mix...but that is just ME. One of my drug reference books says it isn't a good mix, but doesn't get into it further. There are others on this board I know of who have dealt with a similar issue.
I use pot on and off with antidepressants, and many else who do, with no problem. I don't know about the heroin, but haven't heard any major drug-crossover concerns with it, but, you should find a very knowledgeable person to talk to. (Can you not mention anything to your family doc? As far as I know, in this case, they are bound by confidentiality. Even so, they usually seem quite good about these things. If you want some help at all with your non-script drug use, there are good docs out there to help. But, it doesn't mean you *must* quit..it is your choice. Considering smoking cigarettes is likely more dangerous in the long run, I hope that adds a bit of perspective.
BTW...what dose of Zoloft are you on, and how long have you been on it for? I would say at the very least, do a few things. Try and not ingest everything at once...spread it out. Your system may be able to handle it a bit easier.
Sorry I can't help more...I am sure there are others on here to offer their own experiences. If you develop any probs, like heart or breathing problems, heck anything really out-of-the-ordinary, goto an emergency room as quick as you can. Try not to increase the doses, or stop suddenly. I'd say the best thing is, you are not much of a drinker of booze!
Best wishes,
Jay
Posted by djmmm on March 18, 2002, at 18:20:46
In reply to ZOLOFT COCAINE MARIJUANA!! » Michie, posted by ecuadoriang on March 18, 2002, at 14:59:05
mixing cocaine with a SSRI can cause a variety of problems....I guess acutely this combo could cause seizures and serotonin syndrome
...the alcohol and cocaine combo is toxic
You may not feel side-effects now, but you will.
And the disease you are referring to is called Drug Addiction.
Posted by Mitchell on March 18, 2002, at 22:41:15
In reply to Re: ZOLOFT COCAINE MARIJUANA!!, posted by djmmm on March 18, 2002, at 18:20:46
>>I read something about a desease that can be caused by mixing drugs with Zoloft.
> And the disease you are referring to is called Drug Addiction.
Of all the causes of drug addiction mentioned in various scientific and speculative sources, I don't recall reading any source that implicates a combination of illicit or prescribed drugs and Zoloft as a cause of addiction. Is that a rhetorical suggestion, or does it refer to a specific study?
Of the drug combinations you mentioned, I would be most concerned about opiates and ethyl alchohol, especially if your are an inexperienced (opiate naive) user. Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant, as are opiates and opiods. Toxicology studies suggest combinations of CNS depressants and heroin are implicated in far more heroin deaths than is heroin alone. Benzos and other pharmaceutical CNS depressants also appear often in forensic toxicology analyses of opiate and opiod related deaths. Even experienced (opiod tolerant) users often encounter unexpected respiratory depression and even death when alcohol or another CNS depressant is used along with a routine dose of opiates or opiods.
Alcohol and cocaine are frequently mixed with little acute harm, but the combination is also often implicated in acute psychosis. In rather gross anecdotal terms, alchol lowers inhibition while cocaine increases motivation. Motivations that arise while under the influence of cocaine and alcohol, either pre-existing motivations, motivations that might relate to the setting in which the drugs are used or physiologically driven motivations that can result from the drugs (such as drug seeking behavior) are implicated in violent behavior. I think the mechanism might be that cocaine increases dopamine levels by blocking re-uptake of dopamine. Increased dopamine levels increase attention to environmental stimuli that would otherwise be selectively ignored. Alcohol further decreases the ability to selectively attenuate responses to an already disordered flood of information. My hunch is that most cocaine problems, like most alcohol problems, result from usage far in excess of a therapuetic dose. As with all (or at least most) illicit drug use, the practice is not accompanied by informed advice about frequency and amount of dosage. On top of the difficult problem of correctly self-titrating an appropriate dose, users encounter economic challenges (insurance never pays for cocaine :o ) and a criminal culture that results from official prohibition. It is often difficult to differentiate between socially induced problems related to these popular medications and problems that result from the medicine itself.
My observation is that various SSRIs and that well-known plant substance that acts on anandamide receptors are a very common drug combination, especially among mid-management level professionals. Regardless official policies purportedly intended to end canabinoid use, I suspect that without this particular combination of legal and prohibited medications in the popular pharmacopoeia, many corporations would have difficulty finding employees who would comply with their expections.
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on March 18, 2002, at 23:51:03
In reply to ZOLOFT COCAINE MARIJUANA!! » Michie, posted by ecuadoriang on March 18, 2002, at 14:59:05
Zoloft increases the effects of cocaine, sometimes prolonging its effects to twice as long. There is a street slang term for swallowing a Zoloft pill & then later doing cocaine- it might be "Zoomers"- I forgot. I used to do cocaine on Zoloft, never had any ill effects & it did seem to increase the pleasureable effects, but keep in mind that the fatal dose of pure cocaine is 1.2 grams.
Cocaine plus alcohol metabolizes into cocaethylene which has about double the half life of regular cocaine which increases the pleasurable effects of both. But this combination is more toxic than cocaine itself, especially since the alcohol makes it hard to tell when you are too wired & need to slow down lest you have a heart attack!
The problem with Cocaine is that it clots the blood & causes brain damage- this is probably why there are more hospital admissions & deaths from cocaine than all of the other illegal drugs combined. Its half-life is also too short, so you end up needing a fix all of the time & it is way too expensive. (Amphetamines are safer & much less addictive than cocaine- although street versions of amphetamines/methamphetamines contain harmful chemicals from their illicit production that also cause brain damage & amphetamines are often very impure outside of California- California is know as the source nation for methamphetamine by the DEA!).
The speedball- Cocaine + Heroin is the ultimate bad idea. So many people die from this combo because they can't tell when they've had too much cocaine- the heroin dulls the dysphoric aspects of the "wired" effect of cocaine & so they overdose the cocaine & have a heart attack.
If I were you I would cut the Heroin stuff out before you become another statistic.
To get off the cocaine (if you happen to be addicted) Ritalin (methylphenidate) works very well & except for the nasal numbness shares many similar effects (One street term for Ritalin is "kiddie cocaine"). Ritalin is a superior drug because it has a much longer half life which discourages frequent self administration & is less addictive, & does not cause brain damage & is remarkably non-toxic.
I personally found Cocaine is not the most addictive of all drugs as is often frequently reported in the press. I used Cocaine 10 times on an erratic basis, but never had a feeling of addiction. Back in history, before 1915, when cocaine was legal in the USA there was a much greater problem with morphine & opium addiction than cocaine addiction. It is said that it was banned for racist reasons, that Cocaine made "Black people uncontrollable." In fact, I have found Caffeine to be much more addictive & harder to not take it. Try to go a month without any caffeine- most people couldn't do it. But amphetamines & Ritalin are just as good & much cheaper than cocaine- what's the point of doing cocaine anymore- this isn't the disco glamour era anymore. This is probably why the cocaine trade is waning, & use is way down- all the drug abusers found out that amphetamines & ecstacy are better & last longer & are cheaper- hence the explosion of meth labs all across the country. We are winning the drug war on cocaine by tightening the border security at Mexico but cocaine is being replaced by other (synthetic) drugs anyways.
You'd be best off, just taking your prescribed meds. The Zoloft + Rivotril (Klonopin) is a good combination- with this combo you don't really need alcohol or cocaine to talk to people & have a good time. Just drink an iced tea & say "i don't do that sh*t anymore- that's what I did.
Even pot is bad for you- I heard every line from friends that say the opposite, but in the end my "pothead" friends ended up burnouts with no motivation to do anything except sit on the couch all day & smoke. They even stopped going to class & all failed out of college.
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