![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2000, at 11:07:10
Hi, everyone,
I figured out a way to process the web server statistics more efficiently, so I caught up, and it turned out Psycho-Babble served over half a million pages in June. Thanks!
Bob
PS: For the details, click on the Statistics link at the top of the main page, or right here:
Posted by shellie on July 20, 2000, at 11:24:17
In reply to Half a million hits in June :-), posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2000, at 11:07:10
If the same person logs on to the psychobabble board twenty times in one day, I'm assuming that would be twenty hits? shellie
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2000, at 12:35:00
In reply to Re: Half a million hits in June :-) » Dr. Bob, posted by shellie on July 20, 2000, at 11:24:17
> If the same person logs on to the psychobabble board twenty times in one day, I'm assuming that would be twenty hits?
If all they do is go to the main page each time, yes. If they also look at 4 posts each time, that would be 5 hits per visit = 100 hits (pages "served", ie, delivered) total.
Bob
Posted by Rach on July 20, 2000, at 22:00:08
In reply to Re: hits, posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2000, at 12:35:00
Hmm...so are there many different people visiting, or is it just the same people reading many messages and visiting more than once a day?
(based on myself - I know it would have to be the latter!)
Posted by JohnB on July 26, 2000, at 16:28:09
In reply to Half a million hits in June :-), posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2000, at 11:07:10
> I figured out a way to process the web server statistics more efficiently, so I caught up, and it turned out Psycho-Babble served over half a million pages in June. Thanks!Hmmm . . . . . could that be leveraged into some funding or grant money?
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 27, 2000, at 1:51:37
In reply to Re: Half a million hits in June :-), posted by JohnB on July 26, 2000, at 16:28:09
> Hmmm . . . . . could that be leveraged into some funding or grant money?
In theory, yes -- but does anyone have any leads?
Bob
Posted by JohnB on July 27, 2000, at 4:36:19
In reply to Re: Half a million hits in June :-), posted by Dr. Bob on July 27, 2000, at 1:51:37
> > Hmmm . . . . . could that be leveraged into some funding or grant money?
>
> In theory, yes -- but does anyone have any leads?
>
> BobPfizer, Forest Labs, Glaxo, George Soros, Ford Foundation, Bill Gate's charity foundation.
Posted by allisonm on July 27, 2000, at 23:05:33
In reply to Re: Half a million hits in June :-), posted by JohnB on July 27, 2000, at 4:36:19
Dr. Bob,
Do you have a development office in your area? No doubt they already have their fundraising priorities set from above. But I'm wondering whether a corporate and foundation-type development person might have some suggestions on where one could go on their own... I know most of the time they have lists of whom to ask for what and when and often projects have to wait in line in order to even have their chance as asking for money. At least that's the way it is at the university I work for. But I wonder whether maybe there are some smaller fish that might not be big enough for a corporate/foundation development person to bother with ... that they might not care if you approached. Or maybe I'm being waaaaay too naive.I share an office with 6 development people.
I keep my nose out of their stuff most of the time and as much as possible. Icky work, asking people for money...This really has nothing to do with anything, but there's a barber shop a couple of blocks from where I work downtown. It's called C.R.E.A.M., which stands for Cash Rules Everything Around Me. A grim reminder as I go into work in the morning.
Allison
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 27, 2000, at 23:45:36
In reply to Re: Half a million hits in June :-), posted by allisonm on July 27, 2000, at 23:05:33
> Pfizer, Forest Labs, Glaxo, George Soros, Ford Foundation, Bill Gate's charity foundation.
There's more to fundraising than just writing to people with money. They usually have their own areas of interest, procedures, etc...
> Do you have a development office in your area? No doubt they already have their fundraising priorities set from above.
I've tried to work with our development office in the past, but nothing happened, and then the person left the university. :-(
Bob
Posted by shar on July 28, 2000, at 23:21:37
In reply to Re: fundraising, posted by Dr. Bob on July 27, 2000, at 23:45:36
I've worked with univ. grants and state grants (usually federal money). I am wondering what the grant money would be used for on PB?
As in, You give us the money and we will.....
I think most places want demonstration projects or something. Unless it is money just to keep psychobabble going, and then I would go for United Way or something like that.
Shar
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 29, 2000, at 12:29:44
In reply to What to do with the $$ , posted by shar on July 28, 2000, at 23:21:37
> I've worked with univ. grants and state grants (usually federal money). I am wondering what the grant money would be used for on PB?
>
> As in, You give us the money and we will.....
>
> I think most places want demonstration projects or something. Unless it is money just to keep psychobabble going, and then I would go for United Way or something like that.Have you worked with United Way? I guess mostly I just want to keep this going. I've had other ideas, too, but I wonder, how would others fill in the blank above?
Bob
Posted by shar on July 29, 2000, at 14:50:50
In reply to Re: give us the money and we will....., posted by Dr. Bob on July 29, 2000, at 12:29:44
I've only worked on grants, not with United Way or any similar organizations. It might be worth bringing this up at the DC dinner/meeting you are attending of people who are interested in psychology on the internet. See if they are doing any fundraising.
First things first, I think Once a decision is made about what needs doing, the search for grants and other funding can begin. There are many funding sources that are smaller and have to be "tracked down." Like ones for the support and maintenance of left-handed, red-haired, short, females over age 35, studying Ancient History while training for a marathon (for example).
So, having a list of priorities is a giant help. Like having a program of research.
I'd like to hear what others want also.
Shar
> > I've worked with univ. grants and state grants (usually federal money). I am wondering what the grant money would be used for on PB?
> >
> > As in, You give us the money and we will.....
> >
> > I think most places want demonstration projects or something. Unless it is money just to keep psychobabble going, and then I would go for United Way or something like that.
>
> Have you worked with United Way? I guess mostly I just want to keep this going. I've had other ideas, too, but I wonder, how would others fill in the blank above?
>
> Bob
Posted by JohnB on July 30, 2000, at 3:50:15
In reply to Re: give us the money and we will..... » Dr. Bob, posted by shar on July 29, 2000, at 14:50:50
I think Psycho-babble is part of a new model that is engulfing the health field. People want to have a say in the treatment they are given. They want to collect information for themselves, not just hand the whole thing over to the doc. And now, with the Internet, the information is out there and people are sharing it. The genie is out of the bottle, there's no going back, the internet has change everything.
I would think funding for a board like this, which obviously helps so many people, and is moderated by a pdoc, is a definite possibilty. Dr. Bob is running a cutting edge experiment here, one that is just as important as any experiment in a psych dept. at a bricks-and-morter university, in my opinion.
Posted by shar on July 30, 2000, at 11:18:52
In reply to Re: give us the money and we will....., posted by JohnB on July 30, 2000, at 3:50:15
John:
I agree with you completely. If you had $$$ to give as a philanthropist or something, what would you want to know about this board before giving to it?I have been trying to think of outcome measures that would help show the importance of this board.
Shar
> I think Psycho-babble is part of a new model that is engulfing the health field. People want to have a say in the treatment they are given. They want to collect information for themselves, not just hand the whole thing over to the doc. And now, with the Internet, the information is out there and people are sharing it. The genie is out of the bottle, there's no going back, the internet has change everything.
> I would think funding for a board like this, which obviously helps so many people, and is moderated by a pdoc, is a definite possibilty. Dr. Bob is running a cutting edge experiment here, one that is just as important as any experiment in a psych dept. at a bricks-and-morter university, in my opinion.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 30, 2000, at 14:28:43
In reply to Re: give us the money and we will..... » JohnB, posted by shar on July 30, 2000, at 11:18:52
> I have been trying to think of outcome measures that would help show the importance of this board.
That was an idea I had, too, and I even put together a proposal for NARSAD, but they didn't fund it. :-(
Bob
Posted by Greg on July 31, 2000, at 10:20:17
In reply to Re: give us the money and we will..... » Dr. Bob, posted by shar on July 29, 2000, at 14:50:50
"Like ones for the support and maintenance of left-handed, red-haired, short, females over age 35, studying Ancient History while training for a marathon (for example)."
Would this be anyone we know and love by any chance???
Posted by shar on July 31, 2000, at 11:12:03
In reply to Re: give us the money and we will..... » shar, posted by Greg on July 31, 2000, at 10:20:17
LOL!
Only the left-handed short female part. I decided I was getting too close to the truth so I changed the rest!
Shar
> "Like ones for the support and maintenance of left-handed, red-haired, short, females over age 35, studying Ancient History while training for a marathon (for example)."
>
> Would this be anyone we know and love by any chance???
Posted by AndrewB on July 31, 2000, at 13:15:56
In reply to Re: give us the money and we will....., posted by Dr. Bob on July 29, 2000, at 12:29:44
Dr. Bob,OK what you want is money! How about a format change for psychobabble that would make it a more attractive funding candidate.
As it is currently structured, the board generates a lot of useful information and support for its participants but no solid data that could help academia evaluate the value of such depression boards. Generation of such data I think would be considered worthy of grant funding.
I’m suggesting a mandatory registration system for all users. The registration would include a short survey. The questions wouldn’t center on the kind of personal information that make so many nervous, rather, it would ask questions that would help quantify the value (or detriment) provided by such a board. Maybe people should be required to register whether they post or not, after, say, the tenth entry into the site, and periodically they would be re-registrated to update the survey info. What follows is a sample survey I came up with. I Hope this give you some helpful ideas.
**1) On a scale of 0 to 5 rank the influence the information posted on this board has had on you concerning:
A) Your choice of a prescription medicine(s)
1) Name the medicine(s)
2) Has the medicine(s) been effective for you
B) Your choice of a non-prescription medicine(s) or supplement(s)
1) Name the medicine(s) or supplement(s)
2) Has the medicine(s) been effective for you
C) A decision to stop a medicine (or supplement)
1) Name the medicine
D) Your ability to adjust to the side effects of a medicine (or medicine combo)
1) Name the medicine
E) A decision to change psychiatrists
F) The identification of your diagnosis (i.e. thyroid condition, ADD, bipolar)
1) Name the diagnosis**2) On a scale of 0 to 5, has this board made you more likely to make treatment suggestions to your doctor (i.e. choice of medicine).
**3) On a scale of 0 to 5 ranking, has this board has helped you avoid:
A) Potentially harmful drug combos
1) Name the combo
B) Suicide attempts
C) Self mutilation
1) name type of mutilation
D) Drug abuse
1) Name drug
E) Other Crises
1) Name**4) On a scale of 0 to 5. list your severity of the following symptoms:
A) Low mood
B) Anxiety, excessive worrying or fears
C) Fatigue
D) Cognitive difficulties, unclear thinking
E) Suicidal thoughts
F) Anger, irritability
G) Sleep problems
H) Others (please list)
Posted by jane on July 31, 2000, at 17:29:53
In reply to Dr. Bob- a suggestion, posted by AndrewB on July 31, 2000, at 13:15:56
AndrewB - well I'm impressed with your idea.
One additional one - 'choosing a therapist' jane
Posted by Nance on July 31, 2000, at 19:15:20
In reply to Dr. Bob- a suggestion, posted by AndrewB on July 31, 2000, at 13:15:56
What a great idea, Andrew. I would have no problem completing your suggested survey, especially after reading in the FAQ about who has access to the info. It could even be interesting to add the results (compiled numerical data only) to the Statistics page. I might even be able to understand that part of the page!
> > I’m suggesting a mandatory registration system for all users. The registration would include a short survey. The questions wouldn’t center on the kind of personal information that make so many nervous, rather, it would ask questions that would help quantify the value (or detriment) provided by such a board. Maybe people should be required to register whether they post or not, after, say, the tenth entry into the site, and periodically they would be re-registrated to update the survey info.
I have concerns about this part of your suggestion. I'm guessing that you're suggesting 10-visit registration and subsequent re-registration to track duration of participation, number reading only vs. posting, and the degree of influence the board has related to number of visits. I know that 10-visit registration data would be very informative (and helpful for funding), but it brings up the issue of which is more important to Psycho-Babble: support and information for people who aren't ready to (or don't want to, for whatever reason) register, or data collection.The way I was feeling when I first started lurking, I would have just left if I had been required to register after 10 visits. I've experienced a very real feeling of support (the whole 'You are not alone in this struggle - Life does go on - There really are people who care" thing) and have acquired a lot of helpful information from all the terrific people in this group. P-B really helped to sustain me until I got to the point where I could see a very faint light at the end of the long, dark tunnel, and I could get up the courage (and take some kind of action) to register and post. THANK YOU ALL! I'd hate to think that there were people out there who would miss out on this experience/support because they weren't yet ready to, or emotionally able to, commit to registering. IMHO, these are probably the very people who need Psycho-Babble the most, and who possibly don't have, or don't feel like they have (skewed perceptions being such a big part of depression), a lot of other personal support.
I have no problem at all with periodic re-registration. My impression is that once someone has gotten over the hurdle of initial registration (in their own time), then re-registration probably wouldn't be a big deal. I get the feeling that most registered P-B participants would be more than willing to take the time to fill out a periodic brief survey if it would help Dr. Bob in his quest for funding.
Hope I haven't offended (and I DO completely understand the need to collect hard data for funding) - just throwing out some thoughts from the perspective of a fairly long-time lurker.
--------------------------------> What follows is a sample survey I came up with. I Hope this give you some helpful ideas.
A couple of [OK, so it turned into a few ;;-) ] suggestions for the survey:> **1) On a scale of 0 to 5 rank the influence the information posted on this board has had on you concerning:
> ...........
> B) Your choice of a non-prescription medicine(s) or supplement(s)
> 1) Name the medicine(s) or supplement(s)
> 2) Has the medicine(s) been effective for youPossibly add in a question about complementary therapies (exercise, special diet, acupuncture, massage therapy, etc.) and their effectiveness
> ...........
>
> E) A decision to change psychiatristsPerhaps add in - A decision to seek out a psychiatrist, rather than a Family Physician/General Practitioner, for treatment.
> ...........
>
> F) The identification of your diagnosis (i.e. thyroid condition, ADD, bipolar)
> 1) Name the diagnosisI'm confused here - is this the diagnosis from your doc, or the registrant's self-diagnosis based on the information posted on this board?
> ...........
>
> **2) On a scale of 0 to 5, has this board made you more likely to make treatment suggestions to your doctor (i.e. choice of medicine).Maybe a follow-up on whether you have shown material from P-B, or from links recommended on P-B, to your doctor in support of your treatment suggestion.
--------------------
Once again, THANK YOU EVERYONE!I sincerely hope that you all realize just how much you are truly helping the hidden group out there who have been lucky enough to find this board, but who, for whatever reason, have not yet de-lurked.
Posted by shar on July 31, 2000, at 22:26:10
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob- a suggestion, posted by Nance on July 31, 2000, at 19:15:20
Dr. Bob, Andrew, et.al.
I've been considering this issue as well. I searched some grant sites and one problem became apparent immediately. Dr. Bob is in Chicago, and we aren't. So, when it comes to filling out forms, indicating the PI, channeling the money, there would definitely be logistical issues (and political issues, probably). Still doable, but would require more coordination than I originally thought.
Second issue came up when I was thinking about the data collection methodology, and data. We would need to discuss the ramifications of reporting brand names (or maybe this is done all the time). Now, maybe the drug cos. wouldn't be concerned with PB results, but what if it turned out that one particular drug (or two) were particularly bad according to PBers. We would need to consider the pros and cons about publishing that.
Third, of course is the privacy issue, and the issue of legal requirements to intervene. For example, if we do a survey and ask about suicide (or homicide), and get national/international responses, there could be a moral/ethical/legal precedent for reporting cases. (I ran into this when I did a study of battered women, and it turned out that if I asked if they had been hurt since their stay in a shelter I would be required to turn in the batterer or the woman.)
The promise of anonymity does not always guarantee it. And, if there is a law or ethical issue, there might be a requirement to track down the person anyway.
I think the gist of the questions in Andrew's survey are on target, but I would recommend a somewhat different format. And, I would just make the survey a PB item, and use a volunteer sample. I believe it is not that uncommon to do so. We already know PBers probably do not represent people in general, and may not represent the depressed population in general.
There was quite a reaction to even implementing the registration we have now. I don't know about requiring it of non-posters, nor about asking questions of the registrants. More to think about.
I was even thinking that with all the archived information, a survey would probably not be necessary. There is much there that would tell if a person changed meds, took other actions, what they wrote about, etc. A content analysis of the archives to present date would be very informative plus maybe a small survey if necessary to follow up.
The archives are so great because I think they contain the "true" issues of importance to PBers. Thus, help to limit random error and spurious fluctuations compared to data collected in a survey.
Those are some preliminary thoughts. I guess we need to decide how serious an endeavor this is/or should be. Plus, Dr. Bob has said he had already considered some outcome measures, I think. If so, it would be great to know what they were.
Shar
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 1, 2000, at 17:49:18
In reply to Additional ideas, posted by shar on July 31, 2000, at 22:26:10
> Plus, Dr. Bob has said he had already considered some outcome measures, I think. If so, it would be great to know what they were.
I hadn't looked at specific ones, researching that would've been part of the project. FYI, here's a paragraph from that proposal regarding the kinds of outcomes that could be considered:
> Dixon divides the evaluation of medical education interventions into four levels: (1) satisfaction, or whether users like it; (2) learning, or whether it teaches users something; (3) behavior change, or whether it affects what users do; and (4) clinical effect, or whether it makes users better. In these terms, evaluating web sites by number of "hits" is not even at level 1, since "hits" can result simply from widespread promotion. Evaluation measures that more directly address the whole educational process are needed.
I like the ideas you've come up with -- and hope this discussion continues. Thanks!
Bob
Posted by JohnB on August 2, 2000, at 2:32:46
In reply to Re: Additional ideas, posted by Dr. Bob on August 1, 2000, at 17:49:18
The outcomes are right here in the board's archives. Just print the whole thing out from '98 on and let them read it (I know I'm being a little naive here:-). There have been people who've been talked down from suicide, some have found drugs that relieved their symtoms after years of trying. Many, many have found partial relief, or learned something that helped them. This not counting a sense of community.
Perhaps there is someone on this board who has the means to fund this, or who has some inside track to funding agencies. How about it, all you lurkers out there?
Has anyone read the recent Time magazing on "The New Philanthropists" http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articles/0,3266,49977,00.html ? It's about the technology billionaires and their philanthropic endeavors. And these guys are savvy to what the internet is going to be. How about funding from Yahoo, or Ebay or Amazon. I'm not kidding.
I think funding from the scientific establishment might run into the following problem: "All info on medications should come through us, or the drug companies, or the patient's pdoc". This model is about to change, but many don't know it yet.
One final aside. If Al Gore is elected President this November, it might be a good thing for us and for Psycho-babble. Why? He has pledged to make mental health an important part of his agenda. And you know why he might actually keep his promise? His wife Tipper had a depressive episode and took an AD to help bring her out of it.
Posted by shar on August 2, 2000, at 18:28:33
In reply to Re: Additional ideas, posted by JohnB on August 2, 2000, at 2:32:46
I agree that we see outcomes here. I've thought of tracing unique monikers through the threads (sort of like a longitudinal study) to catch all those events you speak of, John.
Your idea is good. The people could be referred to as A, B, or C; or by names we give them (Dane Joe) so anonymity isn't an issue.
One problem I see is that we can't be sure that a moniker used in 98 is still the same person using it in 2000. That would be covered by the caveats section of a report, and it would probably be possible to tell by writing style.
Data reduction, tho, is the key to get others to read the proposal. But, they would probably read a sample of threads, and that could be supplemented by other info.
S
> The outcomes are right here in the board's archives. Just print the whole thing out from '98 on and let them read it (I know I'm being a little naive here:-). There have been people who've been talked down from suicide, some have found drugs that relieved their symtoms after years of trying. Many, many have found partial relief, or learned something that helped them. This not counting a sense of community.
>
> Perhaps there is someone on this board who has the means to fund this, or who has some inside track to funding agencies. How about it, all you lurkers out there?
>
> Has anyone read the recent Time magazing on "The New Philanthropists" http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articles/0,3266,49977,00.html ? It's about the technology billionaires and their philanthropic endeavors. And these guys are savvy to what the internet is going to be. How about funding from Yahoo, or Ebay or Amazon. I'm not kidding.
>
> I think funding from the scientific establishment might run into the following problem: "All info on medications should come through us, or the drug companies, or the patient's pdoc". This model is about to change, but many don't know it yet.
>
> One final aside. If Al Gore is elected President this November, it might be a good thing for us and for Psycho-babble. Why? He has pledged to make mental health an important part of his agenda. And you know why he might actually keep his promise? His wife Tipper had a depressive episode and took an AD to help bring her out of it.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 2, 2000, at 23:20:26
In reply to Re: Additional ideas, posted by shar on August 2, 2000, at 18:28:33
> they would probably read a sample of threads
It might be interesting if someone collected some "outcome" posts in a folder at Psycho-Babble-Tips... :-)
Bob
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