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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 11:55:28
After months of feeling pretty good, I woke up this morning more depressed than I have been in a long, long time. I feel so sad and I don't know why. I'm tired, my thoughts are confused, I'm not even sure what I'm feeling. As I waited for the train this am, I watched it coming down the tracks and thought about jumping in front of it. What is wrong with me and why is this happening? I'm taking all my meds and nothing that I can identify has happened to trigger this, I just don't understand.
I'm really scared.
Greg
Posted by stjames on July 5, 2000, at 12:20:28
In reply to Where did this come from?, posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 11:55:28
Even people like me who are well maintained on meds have off days. If it lasts one day then it is not a big deal but if it continues call your doc.james
Posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 12:27:17
In reply to Where did this come from?, posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 11:55:28
Greg,
I am sorry to hear you are having this out of the blue storm!
I think it can be helpful to tell yourself that it is probably very temporary, not to draw conclusions about the future based on this mood. I tend to get panicked that it means I have lost all my recovery progress and am doomed to slip back down into the depths again forever. But I have learned to take these moods and judge them as temporary, telling myself that my progress is still in place.
Perhaps you are coming down with a physical illness (I am always queasy about using the word "physical" to differentiate between a mood disorder and a body-related illness--it isn't the right word, but it will have to do for now). I know that sometimes, I get depressed for no apparent reason, and then start noticing signs and symptoms of a cold, or the flu or something. That is one thought.
I am glad you shared this experience here. I hope we can help you figure this out.
Do you feel safe about not acting on thoughts like the one you had waiting for the train?
Posted by Kath on July 5, 2000, at 12:49:36
In reply to Where did this come from?, posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 11:55:28
Hi Greg - I'm sorry you're going through this. I certainly understand how you'd feel scared; I would too. It's good that you can be clear about at least part of how you're feeling. I think Noa's points are extremely good ones. Do you have people who you feel okay about talking to in person about this? I notice that now that I'm not feeling so anxious all the time, when I DO feel upset about something, it feels perfectly AWFUL. It's almost as though I'm getting more used to feeling alot better, and when I get down it feels pretty scarey because I don't KNOW that it will go away. My "feeling awful days" are situational, so I usually KNOW what I'm feeling awful about.
I'll be thinking about you. I hope you feel better soon. Please keep us posted.
Love, Kath
> After months of feeling pretty good, I woke up this morning more depressed than I have been in a long, long time. I feel so sad and I don't know why. I'm tired, my thoughts are confused, I'm not even sure what I'm feeling. As I waited for the train this am, I watched it coming down the tracks and thought about jumping in front of it. What is wrong with me and why is this happening? I'm taking all my meds and nothing that I can identify has happened to trigger this, I just don't understand.
>
> I'm really scared.
>
> Greg
Posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 12:54:35
In reply to Re: Where did this come from?, posted by stjames on July 5, 2000, at 12:20:28
>
> Even people like me who are well maintained on meds have off days. If it lasts one day then it is not a big deal but if it continues call your doc.
>
> jamesWhich makes me think: even people who never have clinical depression have off days, depressed days. But for me, with all of my depressive experience, an off day signals panic. Because I have "gone there", ie, gone past the average person's outer limit for transient depressive moods, into the more "taboo" territory of despair, when I have an off day, the route is paved to take me there from the simple, transient, depressed mood, to that awful desparate all encompassing black hole called depression. It is like a kindling experience. The pilot light is already lit.
Ok, forgive all the mixed metaphors. The point is, it is hard to distinguish an off day from the onslaught of another depressive episode, because the barriers have already been removed. Therefore, when an off day comes along, it immediately can feel like a sudden return of the depression. The trick, I think, is to relearn what it is like to have an off day and to reassure yourself, as much as possible, that you can have an off day without necessarily allowing yourself to slip into an episode.
Another way to look at it is to change one's metacognition about the mood. A non-depressed person has an off day and says to him or herself, "I feel like @#*% today. I'm having a lousy day. My thoughts today are depressed thoughts and don't reflect my real self." A depressed person might be more likely to say, "I feel like @#*% today, oh my god, I'm depressed again. The way I am thinking today is the real me. The way I was thinking when I was not depressed was a sham." Then, the person is likely to feel depressed about being depressed, and it feeds on itself further. The key, then is to recognize one's depressed thinking as mood-related and not permanent, and to recognize that any conclusions one draws about themselves being in a depressed mood, are not to be taken seriously.
When coming out of my really bad depression, I felt that if I had to go there again, I would not survive it. When I have a depressed mood, I have to work at not going into despair about it, because my first inclination is to feel I am headed for that horrible despair again, and the idea of going into that state might make me feel suicidal, because of how bad a state it was, how awful an experience it was. I panic that I won't be able to tolerate it again. And the thing is, these processes happen so automatically and swiftly.
But I am learning, slowly, to change my metacognition about depressive moods. They don't have to signal the worst.
I don't know if this helps, Greg.
Posted by Rick E. on July 5, 2000, at 16:02:18
In reply to Where did this come from?, posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 11:55:28
Greg,
Sounds like you're having a human day. Like Noa posted earlier, when I have an "off" day, or even week, I tend to panic and think that oblivion is lurking somewhere right around the corner. When I come out of that thinking, I always try to look back and measure how bad it really was...were things as scary as they seemed or did I just look at it that way?
I hope that this is just a short episode for you and that you are feeling well soon. I will be here and on icq if you need me.
Rick E.
Posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 16:02:52
In reply to Re: Where did this come from?, posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 12:27:17
Noa/Kath/James,
Thanks as usual for the support and advise. I'm so afraid of going back to that Hell of a life I was living a few months back that I think any step backwards just petrifies me. I'm probably making a mountain out of a mole hill, I hope. I'll do my best to ride inside the train and not under it.
Posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 16:38:58
In reply to Re: Noa/Kath/James, posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 16:02:52
It occurs to me that I like to call my bad, off days "TLC Days"---ie, I need to give myself , and seek out from others, extra tlc on those days to help me through.
Posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 16:57:40
In reply to Re: Noa/Kath/James, posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 16:38:58
This one seems more like FUBAR to me.
Posted by CarolAnn on July 5, 2000, at 17:07:05
In reply to Where did this come from?, posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 11:55:28
Greg,
Like the others, I am sorry this happened to you. They are right though, you have to put every effort into not letting one depressed day, spiral into a serious ongoing depression. My pdoc keeps saying again and again(apparently, having figured out how thick I am), the purpose of the drugs is to bring you to a 'normal' mood range, which will include regular ups and downs, because mentally healthy people do have regular ups and downs. I know this to be true, because I see it in my husband, who is the most mentally healthy person I've ever known, and yet has a down day or even several down days, now and then.
I do know exactly where YOU are coming from. I think Noa talked about how we who have suffered depression have a tendancy to feel that once it's over it's over for good. As if the right antidepressant will act as a 'happy' pill or something.
Sorry to ramble, but I am sure that you are just having a 'normally' off day. The secret is to not let this mood feed on itself and get strong enough to throw you into the bowels of depression. I know the following is cliche; but try to do something that you know you have gotten pleasure from recently. Or something, really physical, that could possibly shock your mood back up where it belongs. Here is advise that I pretty much guarantee will work - HAVE WILD SEX TONIGHT. All I can say is, "it worked for me". I was lower then low all weekend, hardly moved off the couch, and feeling guilty about saying, "no" to my husband for way too many weeks. Finally, Monday night, I took pity on him and literally "forced" myself to 'act like' I wanted to do "it". And let me tell you, it worked! Right from the start of the very next day, my whole outlook on life has totally improved.
Well, it's probably kind of weird to get this sort of advise (and example) from someone you don't even know, but I did warn you that it would be shocking...and I feel an obligation to share anything that works with anyone who needs help...keep us posted! ha ha...CarolAnn (aka: boy is my face red!)
Posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 17:14:30
In reply to Re: Noa/Kath/James, posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 16:57:40
> This one seems more like FUBAR to me.
Translation, please. :')
Posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 17:17:45
In reply to Re: Shocking advice!(long, but worth it) » Greg, posted by CarolAnn on July 5, 2000, at 17:07:05
LOL, Carol Ann!
IF the sex doesn't work, try some task where you get immediate feedback and a sense of accomplishment. Like washing the car, or playing ball with your kid. Or washing the car with your kid.
Just don't wash the kid with your car.
Posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 17:53:13
In reply to Re: Shocking advice!(long, but worth it), posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 17:17:45
Remember when I said in an earlier thread that I feel much better if I get a good night's sleep. Well, on days after insufficient sleep, I am vulnerable to feeling depressed, and it is only recently that I have been able to alter the automatic interpretation that I make when I feel this way. I used to notice this feeling and call it depression, as in, I am on my way down into the hole again. Now, I ask myself questions, including, "did I get sufficient sleep last night?" and if the answer is no, I frame the mood as fatigue-induced depressed mood. That takes a big burden off. In fact, it stops being so much of a depressed mood, and more of a "I'm sleep deprived and moody" mood.
Interpretation is everything. Doing it differently is new to me, but I'm trying.
Posted by nhgrandma on July 5, 2000, at 19:16:04
In reply to Re: more on the subject of bad days, posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 17:53:13
Thanks Greg for being open and thanks to everyone who helped him with great advice. Except for the train, I have felt the same lately and needed all the great input given. I will start calling my bad days "tlc" days. And to hear that others have had the same good and bad experiences with meds helps me understand my own reactions.
I'll be praying for you.
Posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 19:43:15
In reply to Re: FUBAR?, posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 17:14:30
F**cked up beyond all recognition.
> > This one seems more like FUBAR to me.
>
> Translation, please. :')
Posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 19:55:15
In reply to Re: Shocking advice!(long, but worth it), posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 17:17:45
Noa & CarolAnn,
Have I ever told you guys that I love ya? THAT was funny. My wife is real partial to the sex idea....
Hugs,
Greg
> LOL, Carol Ann!
>
> IF the sex doesn't work, try some task where you get immediate feedback and a sense of accomplishment. Like washing the car, or playing ball with your kid. Or washing the car with your kid.
>
> Just don't wash the kid with your car.
Posted by Kath on July 5, 2000, at 20:00:38
In reply to Re: FUBAR? » noa, posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 19:43:15
Hey Greg - glad to hear you sounding a little cheerier :>)
You're "the bomb"!! I'm always learning new words (or groups of them) from you & for a word-person like me, that's pretty nice.
Thx for the bomb and for FUBAR!!
Glad to hear your wife likes the "creative" idea!! Have fun.
Kath
> F**cked up beyond all recognition.
>
> > > This one seems more like FUBAR to me.
> >
> > Translation, please. :')
Posted by KarenB on July 5, 2000, at 20:12:24
In reply to Re: Shocking advice!(long, but worth it) » Greg, posted by CarolAnn on July 5, 2000, at 17:07:05
>>Here is advise that I pretty much guarantee will work - HAVE WILD SEX TONIGHT. All I can say is, "it worked for me".
Carol Ann,
If I follow your advice...and then, say, augment treatment with ice water in my right ear (or is it the left?), applied carefully with a turkey baster, I really think it's possible I could beat this depression thing once and for all. Whatdaya think?
Karen;)
Posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 20:43:33
In reply to Re: Shocking advice! » CarolAnn, posted by KarenB on July 5, 2000, at 20:12:24
I had no idea when I started this thread that it was going to turn out to be so.....informative. Cool!
> >>Here is advise that I pretty much guarantee will work - HAVE WILD SEX TONIGHT. All I can say is, "it worked for me".
>
> Carol Ann,
>
> If I follow your advice...and then, say, augment treatment with ice water in my right ear (or is it the left?), applied carefully with a turkey baster, I really think it's possible I could beat this depression thing once and for all. Whatdaya think?
>
> Karen;)
Posted by KarenB on July 5, 2000, at 22:17:57
In reply to Re: Shocking advice!, posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 20:43:33
> I had no idea when I started this thread that it was going to turn out to be so.....informative. Cool!
>
> > >>Here is advise that I pretty much guarantee will work - HAVE WILD SEX TONIGHT. All I can say is, "it worked for me".
> >
> > Carol Ann,
> >
> > If I follow your advice...and then, say, augment treatment with ice water in my right ear (or is it the left?), applied carefully with a turkey baster, I really think it's possible I could beat this depression thing once and for all. Whatdaya think?
> >
> > Karen;)Greg,
See - what you really needed was a good laugh.
BTW, while we are talking good, sound advice for lifting a depression (or improving a bad day), I suggest you rent 'Raising Arizona'...but only if your sense of humor is a little "off." Being that you are posting on this board, I suppose there may be a pretty good chance of that.
Hope you are feeling better tonight and that tomorrow is simply wonderful:)
Karen
Posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 22:44:54
In reply to Re: Shocking advice! » Greg, posted by KarenB on July 5, 2000, at 22:17:57
Babblites,
I am feeling a little better tonight, gonna try to get a good night's sleep and hope for the best tomorrow. Spent some time talking with Tina tonight and she always seems to know the right things to say to make me feel better, as do you all.
I've seen "Raising Arizona" a hundred times and I never get tired of it! Hasn't Nicolas Cage been in about 10,000 movies by now? A little "off" is the understatement of the year in my case. Wouldn't it be cool if everyone else had the problems and we were the normal ones? I know if it were up to God, "she" wouldn't have it any other way!
Thanks so much to everyone for helping me thru, I can always depend on you.
Hugs,
Greg> > I had no idea when I started this thread that it was going to turn out to be so.....informative. Cool!
> >
> > > >>Here is advise that I pretty much guarantee will work - HAVE WILD SEX TONIGHT. All I can say is, "it worked for me".
> > >
> > > Carol Ann,
> > >
> > > If I follow your advice...and then, say, augment treatment with ice water in my right ear (or is it the left?), applied carefully with a turkey baster, I really think it's possible I could beat this depression thing once and for all. Whatdaya think?
> > >
> > > Karen;)
>
> Greg,
>
> See - what you really needed was a good laugh.
>
> BTW, while we are talking good, sound advice for lifting a depression (or improving a bad day), I suggest you rent 'Raising Arizona'...but only if your sense of humor is a little "off." Being that you are posting on this board, I suppose there may be a pretty good chance of that.
>
> Hope you are feeling better tonight and that tomorrow is simply wonderful:)
>
> Karen
Posted by Cindy W on July 6, 2000, at 0:04:00
In reply to Re: Shocking advice! All, posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 22:44:54
> Babblites,
>
> I am feeling a little better tonight, gonna try to get a good night's sleep and hope for the best tomorrow. Spent some time talking with Tina tonight and she always seems to know the right things to say to make me feel better, as do you all.
>
> I've seen "Raising Arizona" a hundred times and I never get tired of it! Hasn't Nicolas Cage been in about 10,000 movies by now? A little "off" is the understatement of the year in my case. Wouldn't it be cool if everyone else had the problems and we were the normal ones? I know if it were up to God, "she" wouldn't have it any other way!
>
> Thanks so much to everyone for helping me thru, I can always depend on you.
>
> Hugs,
> Greg
>
> > > I had no idea when I started this thread that it was going to turn out to be so.....informative. Cool!
> > >
> > > > >>Here is advise that I pretty much guarantee will work - HAVE WILD SEX TONIGHT. All I can say is, "it worked for me".
> > > >
> > > > Carol Ann,
> > > >
> > > > If I follow your advice...and then, say, augment treatment with ice water in my right ear (or is it the left?), applied carefully with a turkey baster, I really think it's possible I could beat this depression thing once and for all. Whatdaya think?
> > > >
> > > > Karen;)
> >
> > Greg,
> >
> > See - what you really needed was a good laugh.
> >
> > BTW, while we are talking good, sound advice for lifting a depression (or improving a bad day), I suggest you rent 'Raising Arizona'...but only if your sense of humor is a little "off." Being that you are posting on this board, I suppose there may be a pretty good chance of that.
> >
> > Hope you are feeling better tonight and that tomorrow is simply wonderful:)
> >
> > Karengreg, tomorrow is a new day! hope it is much brighten for you (and should be, if you follow the wild sex advice and all! ;)
Posted by CarolAnn on July 6, 2000, at 7:57:51
In reply to Re: Shocking advice! » CarolAnn, posted by KarenB on July 5, 2000, at 20:12:24
I'm always amused by how goofy I sound when my words come back to me! But, as I believe firmly, anything for a laugh (even when the laugh is unintentional!). CarolAnn
Posted by CarolAnn on July 6, 2000, at 8:04:53
In reply to Re: Shocking advice! » Greg, posted by KarenB on July 5, 2000, at 22:17:57
Whenever I think of that movie, I get a chuckle remembering the scene(after they have taken the baby), where Nicholas Cage's character(in full 'pantyhose' over face disguise) is robbing the seven-eleven and says, "and I'll be taking these Huggies too!".
Posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 9:05:40
In reply to Where did this come from?, posted by Greg on July 5, 2000, at 11:55:28
Hi Greg - You're in my thoughts. Hope today goes well. Let us know :>)
Kath
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