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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Greg on June 7, 2000, at 18:02:23
In reply to Re: Buspar is HORRIBLE!!! » pollypop, posted by Cari on June 7, 2000, at 14:57:33
You obviously have have a very passionate opinion about BuSpar. I'm very sorry to hear that both you and your husband had such horrible experiences with it. I hope your post was not a result of my suggestion that it might be an option for Polly.
Some people on this board have had great experience with BuSpar, some, like myself, have felt no effects from it at all, and for some like you and your husband, it has truly been a Greek tragedy. But this is the nature of many of the drugs we here at Babble use. Chemical makeup, receptors in the brain, DNA and genetics, among other things determine how a person will react to a given med. 100 different people might have 100 different reactions to a single med. One man's poison mignt be another man's miracle.
I can relate to how strongly you feel about the BuSpar, I feel the same way about narcotics. I took pain killers for chronic pain for over a year and they nearly killed me. It is only by the grace of God that I am still here today. I occasionally read someone's post discussing the possibility using one of the narcotics I used as a possible answer to depression or anxiety and it makes me want to scream "NO, DON'T DO IT!" (and I have done that). But all I can really do is relate my experience to others and hope that they don't have to go thru the pain that I did. Dr. Bob's disclaimer (for lack of a better word) at the top of the main page is:
"Don't (necessarily) believe everything you hear. Your mileage may vary. What you say may (conceivably) be used against you. In a crisis, get help the old-fashioned way. It's good to give as well as to receive."
And that is good sound advise. I don't expect anyone to try a chemical just because I say it works, or, not try something just because I say say it doesn't. I just try to give my experience and support, and then hope and pray that the person can find what's right for them, with, hopefully, a good doctor's help.
I hope that Polly goes to her doctor with all the experiences that she has heard here and makes an informed, intelligent decision based on what she and her doctor feel is right for her. And if that ends up being BuSpar, then so be it.
All my best to you and your husband, I hope that you are doing well.
Greg
Posted by Cari on June 7, 2000, at 18:34:34
In reply to Re: Buspar is HORRIBLE!!! » Cari, posted by Greg on June 7, 2000, at 18:02:23
Greg,
I'm glad you've had positive effects from Buspar, although I must admit that surprised me a great deal. I agree with you that 100 different people can have 100 different reactions to the same med, and hopefully Polly will discuss her options available at length with her doctor. I also recommend checking any new med out on the internet and reading as much as possible about it before taking it, and make sure you don't only check out the web sites sponsored by the pharmaceutical companies because of course they will be biased. As for Fred who said that Benzos are only good for panic attacks but not chronic debilitating anxiety, I beg to differ. I have the chronic debilitating kind and the Benzos are the only meds that have been effective for me since I took my first Klonopin 7 yrs ago. I've stopped taking them at various times, mostly due to moving to new areas & states where doctors are paranoid about prescribing them, and have suffered anxiety so acute and terrorizing that I could not drive a car for months. That constant impending "sense of doom" is kept away by taking the same dosage of Klonopin each day.
Posted by FredPotter on June 7, 2000, at 19:30:56
In reply to Re: better alternative to Buspar, posted by Cari on June 7, 2000, at 17:56:40
FWIW Klonopin does nothing for my anxiety. Fine and mellow - how wonderful, but I think Billie Holliday was on something stronger
Posted by pollypop on June 7, 2000, at 21:07:43
In reply to Re: better alternative to Buspar, posted by FredPotter on June 7, 2000, at 19:30:56
Well, I got the name of a doctor today (from my therapist) who can prescribe. So I will go armed with this info and see what she says.
Sometimes it seems the things that are supposed to help anxiety actaully make me feel worse. My Chinese Herbalist has not been able to track a pattern yet, but I have only been seeing him for 3 months...so we'll see.
Can herbs interfere with these meds? Or cross-react? I wonder if anyone, even a Doc, would really know, as it is kind of cross-disciplinary medicine...don't know if one side really understands the other, and am pretty sure no tests are done.
My anxiety attacks are mostly like panic attacks, sometime mild panic. They are worst at times of conflict and change, (right now). It stinks not to sleep...then I get to have anxiety about whether or not I'll sleep. Yuk.
Thanks everyone for all the info, I really appreciate it!
-P
Posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 8:44:23
In reply to Re: Buspar is HORRIBLE!!!, posted by Cari on June 7, 2000, at 18:34:34
I've known some people who have great success on BuSpar, my mom for one butI'll grant you that it doesn't work all that well on the very severe anxiety you describe. I too have had great success with benzo's but I do easily get addicted to them and withdrawal can be hell. Have you had no diminished effects with such long term use? I always find that the longer I take them, the more I need to take.
Greg,
> I'm glad you've had positive effects from Buspar, although I must admit that surprised me a great deal. I agree with you that 100 different people can have 100 different reactions to the same med, and hopefully Polly will discuss her options available at length with her doctor. I also recommend checking any new med out on the internet and reading as much as possible about it before taking it, and make sure you don't only check out the web sites sponsored by the pharmaceutical companies because of course they will be biased. As for Fred who said that Benzos are only good for panic attacks but not chronic debilitating anxiety, I beg to differ. I have the chronic debilitating kind and the Benzos are the only meds that have been effective for me since I took my first Klonopin 7 yrs ago. I've stopped taking them at various times, mostly due to moving to new areas & states where doctors are paranoid about prescribing them, and have suffered anxiety so acute and terrorizing that I could not drive a car for months. That constant impending "sense of doom" is kept away by taking the same dosage of Klonopin each day.
Posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 11:19:58
In reply to Re: Buspar is HORRIBLE!!! » Cari, posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 8:44:23
Well I've never upped my dose on Klonopin since the first 2 weeks I was taking it 7 years ago. My doctor actually recommended that I take 4 mg/day (but I was living in Alaska and everything up there, including docs, are more liberal), but I myself realized that 2 mg was the perfect dose, because under 4 mg I got too sleepy. To this day I only take the same 2 mg/day and it is still effective for me.
Posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 11:35:48
In reply to Re: better alternative to Buspar, posted by pollypop on June 7, 2000, at 21:07:43
Polly,
The only experience I've had in this area is that I've tried Kava, which is supposed to help anxiety, but it didn't do anything. I think that with us who suffer from truly acute anxiety/depression, the herbs are just too weak to make a difference. In Alaska I used to drink Valerian root tea that was freshly grown and sold locally, and that may have helped, but nothing like the Klonopin. I heard that if you take herbal pills like Valerian they won't be as effective because the natural properties are lost when they get refined into pill form. Once I took a bunch of Valerian root pills to see what would happen, but they didn't do a thing. St. Johns Wort never did a thing for me either, and if you have health insurance that covers prescriptions, you'll ending up spending more on St. Johns Wort that your actual meds. I don't think most doctors know much about the herbs, or if they do they don't share info with patients, because herbs are out of their "scientific" realm, but overall I'd say that herbs are very weak compared to meds.
Posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 12:11:04
In reply to Re: Buspar is HORRIBLE!!!, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 11:19:58
That's great. You must have one of those systems that doesn't build up a tolerance. I used to take one aspirin for a headache but got so used to it that it takes 4 or 5 to rid myself of the pain now. I'm glad Klonopin works so well for you.
> Well I've never upped my dose on Klonopin since the first 2 weeks I was taking it 7 years ago. My doctor actually recommended that I take 4 mg/day (but I was living in Alaska and everything up there, including docs, are more liberal), but I myself realized that 2 mg was the perfect dose, because under 4 mg I got too sleepy. To this day I only take the same 2 mg/day and it is still effective for me.
Posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 12:13:37
In reply to mixing herbs with meds, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 11:35:48
Cari: Do you have any experience with melatonin?
> Polly,
> The only experience I've had in this area is that I've tried Kava, which is supposed to help anxiety, but it didn't do anything. I think that with us who suffer from truly acute anxiety/depression, the herbs are just too weak to make a difference. In Alaska I used to drink Valerian root tea that was freshly grown and sold locally, and that may have helped, but nothing like the Klonopin. I heard that if you take herbal pills like Valerian they won't be as effective because the natural properties are lost when they get refined into pill form. Once I took a bunch of Valerian root pills to see what would happen, but they didn't do a thing. St. Johns Wort never did a thing for me either, and if you have health insurance that covers prescriptions, you'll ending up spending more on St. Johns Wort that your actual meds. I don't think most doctors know much about the herbs, or if they do they don't share info with patients, because herbs are out of their "scientific" realm, but overall I'd say that herbs are very weak compared to meds.
Posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 12:23:42
In reply to Re: mixing herbs with meds » Cari, posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 12:13:37
Tina,
I haven't tried melatonin yet but have heard good things about it helping people sleep. Have you tried it? My boyfriend tried it and he said the first 3 nights he slept great but after that it didn't do anything for him.
Posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 13:05:00
In reply to Re: mixing herbs with meds » Cari, posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 12:13:37
I haven't tried it---tried Valerian...it worked for a few nights, but then stopped. What is with that?
Posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 13:33:53
In reply to melatonin, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 13:05:00
I haven't tried melatonin and that's why I asked you. You seem to have more knowledge of the natural alternatives, effective or otherwise, and I thought you might have an idea if it worked or not. Believe it or not, I have had great success with warm milk with nutmeg and cardamom pods. I know it sounds cliche but it's true. I'm not kidding...It's an ayurvedic cure for sleeplessness that I find helpful. It sure doesn't work everytime but it's a good one when I'm stressed.
> I haven't tried it---tried Valerian...it worked for a few nights, but then stopped. What is with that?
Posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
In reply to Re: melatoninCari, posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 13:33:53
OK I say this hoping that nobody will attack me for it, but has anyone tried using pot to relieve anxiety??? I've never used other drugs & never will, I don't even drink. I have a college degree and work at stable, full time job. I've found pot to be extremely effective in fighting off acute anxiety and used to use it do induce sleep nightly before I began taking Remeron (which also induces sleep so I don't need the pot anymore for that).
Posted by KarenB on June 8, 2000, at 15:33:15
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
Cari,
This is why they say, "Your mileage may vary..."
A long, long time ago, when I smoked pot, it CAUSED anxiety in me. I mean, EXTREME ANXIETY. It is the very last thing I'd do if I wanted to relax. It had exactly the opposite effect on my husband, however, but neither of us have smoked in years.
Strangely enough, I have been taking the "dreaded" Buspar (10 mg, 3x a day) for about five weeks and I have no side effects whatsoever. At first, I thought it was a placebo. Now, I actually think it's working.
There are many different chemical reasons why you may suffer depression or anxiety, including Noa's favorite, your THYROID. No one drug works for everyone and a drug is not inherently "bad" because it doesn't work for you. If that thinking were true, I would personally try to put a complete ban on both Prozac and Serzone - I would rather be tortured than take either of them again.
Karen
Posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:16:06
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
I have been told this by alot of people...but am a chicken about trying! When I quit smoking many years ago, it was because of *paranoid* pot reactions...but who knows maybe now it would be different...with just a little bit...
I do have some Melatonin somewhere...maybe i will try that...
Posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:18:34
In reply to Re: Buspar/natural remedy-Cari, posted by KarenB on June 8, 2000, at 15:33:15
It's so weird because my racing heart and anxiety seems to come in groups of days, then goes for a week or two, then is back...?
Posted by Kath on June 8, 2000, at 17:24:43
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
Hi Cari - Just a couple of non-attacking comments about pot. My 16-yr old is in a treatment program due to using it pretty well daily for about a year & a half - often numerous times daily. I've been finding out more about it and two things that I didn't know are: 1) It is a depressant. 2) It has a half-life of 48 hours. That means that 48 hours after one has smoked it, half of the active ingredient is still in one's bloodstream. I recently read a list of all the physiological effects of smoking pot & was surprised at how many areas in the body it affects, including the immune system. It's also WAY stronger than in my teen days (I'm 53). If you're considering it, you might want to look into the effects it has on the body, and keep in mind that one can become dependent on it - my son sure has.
Best of luck & take care.
Kath.
> OK I say this hoping that nobody will attack me for it, but has anyone tried using pot to relieve anxiety??? I've never used other drugs & never will, I don't even drink. I have a college degree and work at stable, full time job. I've found pot to be extremely effective in fighting off acute anxiety and used to use it do induce sleep nightly before I began taking Remeron (which also induces sleep so I don't need the pot anymore for that).
Posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 18:01:13
In reply to Re: a natural remedy that works but is controversial » Cari, posted by Kath on June 8, 2000, at 17:24:43
Thanks for the info Kath, I will consider that. I wish there were more current, in depth studies of the use of pot that weren't government biased. I know THC contains somewhere in the ballpark of 256 chemicals. I just wish they could identify and isolate each one, because at least one of them in there must help with anxiety... I have to admit it does scare me that no one really knows for sure exactly the long term effects of pot use. I know of people who have been smoking it for 30 years and are dignified professional business people whom no one would guess come home and take a bong hit every night. Yet on the other hand there are people like your 16 year old who obviously should not be smoking it. Why the difference in tolderance, addictive tendencies and benefits/negative repercussions???? I guess that is the big mystery, the same one that lurks behind our quest of the perfect med combo for each of us...
Posted by Sara T on June 8, 2000, at 19:45:07
In reply to melatonin, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 13:05:00
> I haven't tried it---tried Valerian...it worked for a few nights, but then stopped. What is with that?
If you try melatonin, make sure the brand you get is using a pharmaceutical grade melatonin. I have used both and the pharmaceutical grade is much stronger I think. Since herbal remedies are not regulated, you really do't know what youu're getting from dose to dose. You have to be careful to read the labels and look for levels of standardization. There are alot more books and info out there on the right things to look for and the pharmacology of herbs as well as their effectiveness.
Milk, bananas and some other foods that contain Tryptophan reduce anxiety. That's why the warm milk before bedtime works so well.
Sara T.
Posted by Kath on June 11, 2000, at 13:15:32
In reply to Re: a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 18:01:13
Hi Cari - you're welcome. You're right about people being different. My brother-in-law, who is in his 50's has smoked pot daily since he was a teen & is a very productive member of society; has a job; a home; a happy family life. And just yesterday I heard of a woman who my friend knows. Ten years ago she was intelligent, witty, interested in life, etc. She's been smoking pot daily for that duration & is now bored, unmotivated, doesn't talk much, etc. Could be the pot, could be something else.
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide is best for you.
Kath
> Thanks for the info Kath, I will consider that. I wish there were more current, in depth studies of the use of pot that weren't government biased. I know THC contains somewhere in the ballpark of 256 chemicals. I just wish they could identify and isolate each one, because at least one of them in there must help with anxiety... I have to admit it does scare me that no one really knows for sure exactly the long term effects of pot use. I know of people who have been smoking it for 30 years and are dignified professional business people whom no one would guess come home and take a bong hit every night. Yet on the other hand there are people like your 16 year old who obviously should not be smoking it. Why the difference in tolderance, addictive tendencies and benefits/negative repercussions???? I guess that is the big mystery, the same one that lurks behind our quest of the perfect med combo for each of us...
Posted by kady on June 13, 2000, at 7:52:28
In reply to Re: a natural remedy that works but is controversial » Cari, posted by Kath on June 11, 2000, at 13:15:32
Trust me on this. I know far more "professionals" who go home to their seemingly "perfect" families at night and toke up. They may appear productive to you or part of a happy family, but I have witnessed first hand the "smokescreen".
Stay away from it, these people I know have made things other than family and friends their priority. They have made their drug their priority and then claim to be able to function perfectly or at least as well as their neighbor. They isolate everyone and the things that go on behind closed doors would actually show their true colors.To be perfectly blunt, people start drinking for the same reason, anxiety release. You may feel less anxious but you will pay emotionally in other ways eventually. Don't kid yourself.
Posted by KarenB on June 13, 2000, at 9:12:45
In reply to Re: a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by kady on June 13, 2000, at 7:52:28
> Trust me on this. I know far more "professionals" who go home to their seemingly "perfect" families at night and toke up. They may appear productive to you or part of a happy family, but I have witnessed first hand the "smokescreen".
> Stay away from it, these people I know have made things other than family and friends their priority. They have made their drug their priority and then claim to be able to function perfectly or at least as well as their neighbor. They isolate everyone and the things that go on behind closed doors would actually show their true colors.To be perfectly blunt, people start drinking for the same reason, anxiety release. You may feel less anxious but you will pay emotionally in other ways eventually. Don't kid yourself.
Well said, kady. Everyone looks better from a distance. It's the way we behave with those closest and what we consider to be of value, that count.I know some guys like this, too. Their wives are not all that "happy" and it is a poor message on coping that they are demonstrating to their children.
ADs and anxiety meds are meant to lift us from imbalance to a "good normal," not have us walking around stoned.
Karen
Posted by danf on June 15, 2000, at 16:34:15
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
This is not an attack !
I would say you are playing with a fire that may consume you.
Pot is well known to induce paranoia & anxiety. It is not a function of any contaminant. It is foolish to mix psychoactive drugs & pot.
How to you think you will ever find a med treatment regimen that works if you add in POT ?
If YOUR current drug regimen does not work, then it needs to be modified. Adding POT on your own is just likely to cause meds that may help you to not work.
I feel for you & the pain you carry, which must be immense !
Posted by Andrea Gomez on June 16, 2000, at 15:43:42
In reply to Re: BuSpar, posted by Walter on June 5, 2000, at 10:19:37
> Took buspar 10 mg daily for 1 yr. Ineffective at that dosage level. When taken with a lot of caffeine, it destroyed my sex drive . I threw the BUSPAR away. will try stress relieve exercises etc. You need to take at least 20 to 30mg daily to be of any use.
I am taking Buspar right now with a combination of Zoloft. I am on 10mg. I feel this is going to do nothing for me. I have been feeling the effects of hypomania. Not only now, but all my life. Is this combination good or am I kidding myself. She is going to raise the dose on the Buspar next month. She gave me a low dose because the drug made me so sluggish the first few days.
Posted by Andrea Gomez on June 16, 2000, at 16:05:23
In reply to Anxiety, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:18:34
> It's so weird because my racing heart and anxiety seems to come in groups of days, then goes for a week or two, then is back...?
i have the same effects. i feel so hyped up an happy. a few days later i blow up. i become so afraid of myself and others finding out the "real" me.
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